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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mommyron on February 12, 2010, at 14:31:22
I am new and I hope I'm not starting a new thread when perhaps the info was already out there. I did a search & found some references to inositol and OCD, but not bi-polar.
Has anyone had success using Inositol for bi-polar depression?
If so, what dose?
Thank you,
Teresa
Posted by morganator on February 12, 2010, at 15:09:59
In reply to Inositol for bi-polar depression, posted by mommyron on February 12, 2010, at 14:31:22
I would go to the alternative board. Dr. Bob may redirect you there anyway.
Inositol probably won't help much. That is my guess at least. Lithium orotate or aspartate or the combination of both may help though.
Are you trying to avoid seeking help from a psychiatrist and taking pharmaceuticals? You do know that lithium in any form is not really a pharmaceutical that was synthetically derived by a pharmaceutical company. One formulation called Lithobid is an extended release version of lithium carbonate, I'm going to start taking a low dose of this as an adjunct to my antideressant for my bipolar depression. I am going also to try lithium aspartate as I have heard it may increase serotonin a bit more than the orotate form. Not sure if this is true or not. Anyway, low doses of lithium can help with bipolar or other forms of depression. I like the idea of taking a low dose of Lithobid because it is extended release.
Posted by mommyron on February 12, 2010, at 15:26:45
In reply to Re: Inositol for bi-polar depression, posted by morganator on February 12, 2010, at 15:09:59
Thank you for your really informative post. I do have a doc -- have for years. (You are right, as I read and think more, this should be on the alternative site...) I am a holistic nutrition student too, so am trying to straddle the two worlds. It's tough, as my depression is life-long and fairly intractible. Lamictal worked very well and I took it for several years; dosing needed to go up periodically. At one point (300 mg) I started to have trouble sleeping, dry mouth & hair loss. My doc weaned me off it, and I have been completely off it for almost 3 weeks, but with more depression, a lot more. (My bi-polar is rapid cycling type 2 with the manic episodes more a lack of depression than any true mania.) I will definitely follow up on the alternative site...Thank you again.
Posted by morganator on February 12, 2010, at 16:39:03
In reply to Re: Inositol for bi-polar depression, posted by mommyron on February 12, 2010, at 15:26:45
Were you supplementing with folic acid and other things that lamictal might deplete when taking it?
I would definitely recommend at least taking a small dose of lithium as it is neuroprotective and may promote neurogenesis. Many take it solely for this reason and do not suffer from depression or bipolar. Plus, a low dose of lithium may just help some with your mood. It is the ridiculously high doses that become toxic and may impact your kidneys and thyroid. You still may have issues with lower doses but it is less likely.
Good luck!
Posted by janejane on February 12, 2010, at 17:30:59
In reply to Re: Inositol for bi-polar depression, posted by morganator on February 12, 2010, at 16:39:03
Morganator- what's your opinion on using lithium for unipolar depression? Thanks!
Posted by Phillipa on February 12, 2010, at 17:42:47
In reply to lithium for unipolar? » morganator, posted by janejane on February 12, 2010, at 17:30:59
Seriously I'd also like to know for mood with hasimotos how high is safe? Phillipa
Posted by mommyron on February 12, 2010, at 18:06:54
In reply to Re: Inositol for bi-polar depression, posted by morganator on February 12, 2010, at 16:39:03
My psychiatrist never considered lithium, since I'm such an atypical sort of bi-polar. (I think the best supporting diagnostic criteria at this point is that I respond best to bi-polar depression meds -- Lamictal, Seroquel rather than SSRIs or SNRIs.)
I will run the lithium idea past him. I am actually thinking I'll take the hair loss and dry mouth in place of how crappy I am feeling, and consider going back on Lamictal. I am not just depressed but very edgy, almost like my brain is on an irritable upper.
You are so helpful...are you a doctor? I am curious.
Posted by morganator on February 12, 2010, at 22:39:15
In reply to lithium for unipolar? » morganator, posted by janejane on February 12, 2010, at 17:30:59
All I know is that low dose lithium has been used successfully in unipolar depression especially as an adjunct to antidepressant treatments. Do some research and you might find some promising info. I would definitely opt to take lithium before ever considering something like Abilify as an ad on treatment.
Posted by morganator on February 12, 2010, at 22:49:45
In reply to Re: Inositol for bi-polar depression, posted by mommyron on February 12, 2010, at 18:06:54
Oh no not a doctor. You will find other people on this board with much more experience and knowledge than me.
What about supplementing with Zinc and Selenium to hopefully counter the hair loss? If you take say 30 mg Zinc, you need to make sure you are also taking about 2 mg or so of copper. I would try to do some research and find out what mineral/vitamins Lamictal might deplete the body of. I know one for sure is folic acid. Like I said, megafolinic by source naturals or any l-methylfolate or folinic acid product would be much better than your average everyday folic acid. You have to realize that the majority or all of the drugs we take deplete our body of essential nutrients or block nutrients from being absorbed as well. Unfortunately our doctors are not educating us on this and telling us what we can do about it, at least not most doctors. The nutrient depletion may have had a lot to do with the hair loss and other issues. I would seriously look into it and maybe consider getting back on lamictal.
Also, a little lithium will not hurt you. If anything it would only be good for your brain. Think about it and talk to your doc about it. If he doesn't prescribe a low dose of say Lithobid, maybe 150 mgs, I would order some lithium orotate from some reliable sources online. JMHO.
Posted by mommyron on February 13, 2010, at 10:44:10
In reply to Re: Inositol for bi-polar depression, posted by morganator on February 12, 2010, at 22:49:45
Lamictal does indeed deplete several nutrients and one of them is biotin, a deficiency of which can be hair loss. (Of course, this discovery was after the fact.) I will run your lithium idea past my doc. Thank you so much.
Posted by bleauberry on February 13, 2010, at 17:46:30
In reply to Inositol for bi-polar depression, posted by mommyron on February 12, 2010, at 14:31:22
I've seen all the studies on inositol over the years. They can look amazingly seductive.
It is a natural supplement, found in small amounts in most vitamins and in food, so I'm all for someone trying to find out what upper limit of it they can take without disrupting the balance of something else.
But. Reality check. At pbabble over many years, I have witnessed hardly anything positive from anyone who has tried inositol. Maybe a little blip here and there, maybe a short-term something or the other that didn't last long, and more stories of people actually feeling badly from it instead of good.
This could go into a whole book about how the studies we rely on are actually quite flawed, incomplete data, biased from the start, and such. Forget that for now. For sure though, a lot of people and doctors must be wondering why they don't get duplicate results of what clinical trials claimed.
Posted by mommyron on February 13, 2010, at 19:21:19
In reply to Re: Inositol for bi-polar depression, posted by bleauberry on February 13, 2010, at 17:46:30
I like your "reality check" line! It's so true; the proof is in the pudding. And your longstanding membership on psychobabble does not seem to have borne out a large population who have responded to inositol; thank you for sharing this observation with me. I have a strong background in nutrition, and have seen the profound effects it has on various health issues, including some very serious ones. So a part of me never stops hoping that it can be an answer for my depression as well. So far I have definitely uncovered ways I can tweak my emotional well-being nutritionally. But my biochemistry has been so "off" for so long (my whole life), that it seems to be well beyond what can be managed by diet & supplements alone. And that really bums me out! It looks like it's back to Lamictal/lithium for me, although it will most likely be Lamictal since it did work very well. This time around, I'll be sure to take large doses of the nutrients it depletes.
Which brings up an interesting subject. Glutamate, that infamous excitatory acid. I know Lamictal and lithium too (I think) inhibit glutamate. Does anyone know if glutamate is, therefore, a culprit in most depression or bi-polar???? Because if it is, it seems a nutritional approach could definitely help, and this is how I know...my small daughter had a brain tumor and, given its aggressive typology, we work with a nutritionist on recurrence prevention. Brain trauma patients need to avoid glutamate; as suspected, my daughter's tested VERY high. We implemented B6 & manganese, as these nutrients help convert glutamate back into glutamine. A year later, her glutamate level is low normal. I just wondered if anyone knows about glutamate's relationship to depression???
Thank you for your helpful feedback. I am most grateful for the knowledge and experience extended to me on this site.
Posted by Phillipa on February 13, 2010, at 20:38:14
In reply to Re: Inositol for bi-polar depression, posted by mommyron on February 13, 2010, at 19:21:19
Oh my how is your Daughter doing? Good I'm hoping nice to have a knowledeable person on babble. Thanks for being here. Phillipa
Posted by morganator on February 14, 2010, at 3:08:08
In reply to Re: Inositol for bi-polar depression, posted by mommyron on February 13, 2010, at 19:21:19
Hey there are some supplements that may help with brain tumors and their formation, curcumin being one of them.
Posted by mommyron on February 14, 2010, at 10:17:32
In reply to Re: Inositol for bi-polar depression » mommyron, posted by morganator on February 14, 2010, at 3:08:08
Yup. She takes curcumin....and about 18 other supplements (I am not exaggerating!) BTW curcumin has also been studied for its anti-depressant effects too.
My daughter is tumor-free; she recurred once. That was before nutritional intervention--her protocol is rigorous, and we have many issues that just aren't there for "normal" families (whatever "normal" is...?). But she is alive.
Posted by janejane on February 14, 2010, at 11:23:30
In reply to Re: Inositol for bi-polar depression, posted by mommyron on February 14, 2010, at 10:17:32
I have seen a few posts on babble about curcumin/tumeric. Interesting stuff. You mentioned that you have found several supplements that have helped you -- would you mind sharing, perhaps in a new thread? I know everyone is different in what they react to, but I would love to learn what worked for you. It's great to have somewhere here who knows about nutrition, and I'm glad you've found a way to implement that knowledge into your daughter's treatment. She's lucky to have a Mom like you.
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