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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by mystified on February 4, 2010, at 20:41:50
In reply to Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression, posted by Phillipa on February 4, 2010, at 19:47:27
I've seem some post of having of those symptoms yet deny it is depression.
Posted by Phillipa on February 4, 2010, at 21:27:04
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression, posted by mystified on February 4, 2010, at 20:41:50
Me for one but they then say its the thyroid no wait it's hormones too many things. Oh wait forgot the chronic lymes. Just kidding Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 1:24:14
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression, posted by mystified on February 4, 2010, at 20:41:50
Yes, true. And chronic pain can cause depression.
Then again, what is depression?
Posted by manic666 on February 5, 2010, at 5:38:49
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression » mystified, posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 1:24:14
that what i try to tell you , you could have the pain an all the symptoms , but there not real ,its the depression,when younger i had excema on the iside of my arms an legs,boils sprouted up in crisis, had op,s on my adiniods for no reason . the nuraliga in my gums. cronic back pain. phobia,s meds cures most of this.its only this site were people dont seem to grasp your mentaly ill .stop looking for other illnesses what are pycosmatic.i write on two sites an once people come to term,s with it they thank me. you have one illness not 50
Posted by conundrum on February 5, 2010, at 6:57:50
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression, posted by manic666 on February 5, 2010, at 5:38:49
I sometimes suffer from unexplainable joint pains. I thought it was a result of poor absorbtion, due to stool changes, or candida or something after reading about various ailments on the web. I also got dizzy after bike riding and thought I might have like a low grade CFS caused by coming off prozac years ago.
Well after having blood tests for various vitamins and markers for absorbtion it showed I was fine. I immediately felt better and stronger and its lasted. While in Denmark visiting my g/f last month we rode bikes everywhere everyday and the dizzy sensation went away. I didn't have CFS I was just out of shape.
I one time had a reaction and got sick after juicing for like 2 or 3 days, but now think that was psychosomatic, since I believed I might have a herx reaction.
I've also come to realize that even posting on this board and trying to figure out and master the pharmacology to choose the right drugs or drug to help me is a result of anxiety and not just a persistence to get better.
Posted by mystified on February 5, 2010, at 7:42:55
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression » manic666, posted by conundrum on February 5, 2010, at 6:57:50
> I've also come to realize that even posting on this board and trying to figure out and master the pharmacology to choose the right drugs or drug to help me is a result of anxiety and not just a persistence to get better.That's a very good point. There is such a thing as information overload/information fixation which keeps ppl stuck. Access has created another kind of monster to deal with. There are certain personality types & coping styles that tend toward disease mongering. Sometimes it is easier to remain ill and searching rather than making motions to seek getting better. These types of forums can be an enabling tool that isn't always in the best interest.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 9:04:39
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression » manic666, posted by conundrum on February 5, 2010, at 6:57:50
Conundrum,
Are you med-free now?
fb
Posted by Justherself54 on February 5, 2010, at 10:32:15
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression » mystified, posted by Phillipa on February 4, 2010, at 21:27:04
Depression makes chronic pain worse, chronic pain makes depression worse..it's a vicious cycle. Chronic pain and depression interferes with sleep which makes pain and depression worse. I know that on the extremely rare occasion I have a deep restorative sleep my pain and depression are way better.
I think we also have to be cautious and not write all pain off as a symptom of depression. I have fibromyalgia and then was noticing I was in extreme pain when driving or sitting. Turns out I now have coccydynia. I was recently told by a doctor (not my regular GP) that she "wouldn't bother" referring me to the pain clinic as "they just would prescribe you opiods and make you addicted"..I'm going hmmmm opiods..will help pain, depression and sleep..MAKE THE REFERRAL!. She said it's a two year waiting list..I said MAKE THE REFERRAL!.
We had quite an appointment. She said you are deconditioned and have to fight through the pain, eat better and accept my life the way it is and that some doctors don't even believe in fibromyalgia. I said, so you are telling me to get off my fat a**, lose weight and stop feeling sorry for myself!. She did some major backtracking, ordered an urgent CT scan for my coccyx (my "urgent" scan is in MAY) and referred me to the pain clinic. All this arrogance may have been a little easier to swallow, except for the fact the doctor lecturing me on all this was at least 80 pounds overweight herself!
Right now I'm thinking of chaining myself to the parliament building protesting the two year waiting list (also two years for a sleep study)..although then I would get hemorrhoids from sitting on the cold cement and have to wait another two years for some other specialist!
Sorry to hijack this thread but it all just came flying out.
Pain and sleep disturbances suck and make my depression so hard to manage, especially now that I'm at the end of the AD's currently available here.
OK, maybe I should have waiting until my coffee kicked in..Sorry for the rant..but thanks you guys for listening!
Posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 10:32:17
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression, posted by manic666 on February 5, 2010, at 5:38:49
Maniac, that's great that you've found the right meds to relieve your symptoms.
Wish me luck,
fb
Posted by conundrum on February 5, 2010, at 10:47:15
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression » conundrum, posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 9:04:39
I'm on a low dose of prozac and buspar. I just started this week. It helped in the past but stopped when I increased prozac so this time I'm sticking with the orginal dose that helped.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 10:54:35
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression, posted by Justherself54 on February 5, 2010, at 10:32:15
A two year wait? Ugh. Well, I see you've retained your humor....
Fibromyalgia research is looking into some interesting stuff--mind/body connections (which, I feel, are poorly understood, and as a result, over-
simplified into categories, such as mental
/physical, control/uncontrollable, which can lead to moral judgments) and new ways of understanding and valuable, new inquiries into human biology such as what is a pain response?That said, it can be a little crazy-making. I'm sorry this is such a long road for you. I'm glad you posted.
I'm off to have my tea. Hope your day is a good one!
fb
Posted by conundrum on February 5, 2010, at 12:15:42
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression, posted by Justherself54 on February 5, 2010, at 10:32:15
Why do you have to wait two years? Are there other clinics doing sleep studies and pain clinics???
Posted by manic666 on February 5, 2010, at 13:00:53
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression » manic666, posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 10:32:17
thats great that some of you are comming to term,s with you illness. its crap i know ive been this way years, an floatingbridge baby,im atually in the middle of a med chance from sertraline to celexa.but hey thats how it goes, im seeing if the weight prob sertraline seems to cause will stop with celexa. i was blaiming the sertraline for my arhritis, it may not help it but it dont cause it.an as i walk 5 mile aday the weight dont help. any p0 doc will tell you not to look at med sites, only for friedship an share your feelings ,the more you read about other illness the worse you get,
Posted by conundrum on February 5, 2010, at 13:10:29
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression, posted by manic666 on February 5, 2010, at 13:00:53
> any p0 doc will tell you not to look at med sites, only for friedship an share your feelings ,the more you read about other illness the worse you get,
I think that the negative experiences that one person attributes to a particular drug or treatment could keep someone else from trying it and it just may have been the drug that would make them feel better.
Posted by manic666 on February 5, 2010, at 13:22:27
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression » manic666, posted by conundrum on February 5, 2010, at 13:10:29
sorry i worded that wrong , i dont mean depressive illness , i ment try to blaim other illness,s for your mental torment , by all means talk about your meds, i tell my doc what meds i want from reading babble years ago. i didnt no one med from another ,a bit like my p doc.i make sure im up on the meds an the side effects, sorry for messing the post up.but if you constantly look for an illness you will eventually find an believe you have it.
Posted by bleauberry on February 5, 2010, at 18:27:41
In reply to Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression, posted by Phillipa on February 4, 2010, at 19:47:27
What can be confusing here is that the following situations look exactly to a tee like the back to basics symptoms description of depression.
Candida.
Lyme.
Lyme-like cousins.
Amalgam illness.
Food intolerance (usually gluten or casseine)So what is it? Is it straight out plain ole depression without any cause? Or is it something else that looks exactly like depression? The symptoms are identical. One could be the other and we would never know.
Just for casual awareness.
Posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2010, at 19:51:52
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression, posted by Justherself54 on February 5, 2010, at 10:32:15
Justy it's not fair. Fibro is very real and recognized as so and I also say use the opiods they do work for all three. Uggg docs!!!! Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2010, at 19:54:43
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression » mystified, posted by floatingbridge on February 5, 2010, at 1:24:14
Posted by manic666 on February 6, 2010, at 6:36:40
In reply to Re: To Those that doubt fibromyalgia, posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2010, at 19:54:43
or this is what the p docs hear all the time, have i got a brain tumor//////have i got cancer///// the doc says you have every blood test nown to man every scan a nuro prob, an all are negative, so stop worring, patient/ but yes doctor i read somthing an im certain i have a brain tumor,can you look again an again an again. Is that any of you????????Sounds familour dont it.then you take 2 ativan or a dose of vailium an the tumor,s not there now,an you think, i bet that doc thinks im a right nut,so you go on to read something else an the cicle starts again, it called TRIGERING YOURSELF. so please stop it. for the sake of your mental health.
Posted by conundrum on February 6, 2010, at 6:43:48
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression, posted by bleauberry on February 5, 2010, at 18:27:41
Unfortunately most depressed people don't have the energy to go on a Candida diet or do a food challenge to find out. Probably can't afford to have their fillings out either, which would probably scare the wits out of them.
Posted by manic666 on February 6, 2010, at 7:16:35
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression » bleauberry, posted by conundrum on February 6, 2010, at 6:43:48
good call, thanks
Posted by mystified on February 6, 2010, at 8:56:17
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression, posted by manic666 on February 6, 2010, at 7:16:35
I don't believe the idea that a contributor factor in someone's health negates the effectiveness of mental health treatment. That's equivalent to all or nothing thinking.
Thinking outside the box is fine but there is the question of how's that working out for you?
Posted by bleauberry on February 6, 2010, at 9:50:44
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression » bleauberry, posted by conundrum on February 6, 2010, at 6:43:48
I respect these concerns, but disagree with them.
Any diet, candida or otherwise, takes zero energy to do. We're going to expend the same amount of energy shopping and eating, no matter what it is we actually choose.
It is a different mindset for sure. "Eat for health, not for pleasure." It is usually found that the foods we crave the most are the ones actually contributing to our problems. Long story, most here probably not interested.
It makes sense to me that whenever anyone gets sick, mental, physical, whatever, doesn't matter...the game has changed...things cannot be done the way they always had been previous. That includes food choices. The game has changed and so have the rules. Unfortunately, that's life. We may never be the same because of it. And thus, we probably cannot live the same as we always did.
A very few people, like Ace the Nardil Champ, experience the huge win we all seek. It seems rare though. In the real world, my opinion is we need to do everything we possibly can to improve our bodies and brains from every angle conceivable. Depression is not an excuse to not do that. It is a reason to do that.
Some dentists, and at least a few separate companies I am aware of, offer zero-interest loans for amalgam removal. They can be paid off in small amounts over a long period of time. So finances are not an excuse. Dentists who are made aware of a low income struggling situation can lower the fees on a sliding scale. The big chain dentists, no, but the better ones, yes.
I did not opt for the dentist loans. But if I had, the payments would have been $20 a month for 2 years.
The only thing scarier than removing mercury is leaving it there. It's more suited for a toxic waste dump than in the mouth right next to the brain. The electromagnetic fields generated by the composite metals alone are enough to wreak havoc so close to the brain, not to mention the toxicity factor.
Understandably, to anyone is not fully schooled on this topic, anyone who has not spent time at related forums, and anyone who has not read books on the topic, it is expected that this would appear to be a foreign idea that is hard to appreciate.
Back to the beginning "most depressed people don't have the energy..." to do what is healthy to fight any disease. I'm sorry, I just do not understand that mindset. I have been as depressed or more so than anyone here...hospitalized, ECT, suicide intentions...but that was all before I knew there were other ways to weaken the monster besides just pills. Anyone who is ill and does not embark on every health trick they can, well, I just cannot for the life of me make any sense in that. Depression is a handy excuse, and yes it makes it very hard to get out of longterm habits. Nothing makes depression more entrenched than to allow it the same breeding ground it has always had.
I do understand, more than you know.
> Unfortunately most depressed people don't have the energy to go on a Candida diet or do a food challenge to find out. Probably can't afford to have their fillings out either, which would probably scare the wits out of them.
>
Posted by Justherself54 on February 6, 2010, at 13:33:48
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression, posted by bleauberry on February 6, 2010, at 9:50:44
>>Any diet, candida or otherwise, takes zero energy to do. We're going to expend the same amount of energy shopping and eating, no matter what it is we actually choose.
It may take zero physical energy to do, but the mental energy can be overwhelming.
>>Anyone who is ill and does not embark on every health trick they can, well, I just cannot for the life of me make any sense in that. Depression is a handy excuse, and yes it makes it very hard to get out of longterm habits.
It may not make sense to you at this point in your recovery, but when you were at your worst, were you then making those type of changes? I'm sorry, but when I was hospitalized and undergoing ECT, I don't even remember eating..not from the ECT..just from the severity of my illness at that time.
Ive had periods of remission where I could enthusiastically make lifestyle changes..but I had to be in the right headspace. It's all about remission..that elusive butterfly..
Posted by bleauberry on February 6, 2010, at 16:13:15
In reply to Re: Back to Basics Symptoms of Depression » bleauberry, posted by Justherself54 on February 6, 2010, at 13:33:48
It has to be done, mental energy or not. The key is to take baby steps, one thing at a time, as long as the direction of movement is in a better direction than the past. I did not do any of these things before ECT simply because...no one ever told me...I didn't know.
> >>Any diet, candida or otherwise, takes zero energy to do. We're going to expend the same amount of energy shopping and eating, no matter what it is we actually choose.
>
> It may take zero physical energy to do, but the mental energy can be overwhelming.
>
> >>Anyone who is ill and does not embark on every health trick they can, well, I just cannot for the life of me make any sense in that. Depression is a handy excuse, and yes it makes it very hard to get out of longterm habits.
>
> It may not make sense to you at this point in your recovery, but when you were at your worst, were you then making those type of changes? I'm sorry, but when I was hospitalized and undergoing ECT, I don't even remember eating..not from the ECT..just from the severity of my illness at that time.
>
> Ive had periods of remission where I could enthusiastically make lifestyle changes..but I had to be in the right headspace. It's all about remission..that elusive butterfly..
This is the end of the thread.
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