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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 2, 2010, at 20:24:48
So, all of these medications are designed to limit the reuptake of neurotransmitters. So what if I just don't have neurotransmitters there? What if I just don't have dopamine or serotonin or norepinephrine to block? You can block nothing completely and it's still nothing. This would mean none of the meds would work, which is what I'm experiencing. What do you think? Is this possible?
Posted by janejane on January 2, 2010, at 21:19:24
In reply to What if I just don't have neurotransmitters?, posted by inanimate peanut on January 2, 2010, at 20:24:48
Amino acids like tryptophan, tyrosine, phenylalanine, etc. are the substances that our bodies use to make the neurotransmitters we think of as being implicated in depression (serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, etc). (Note that there are some people who don't believe neurotransmitter deficiency is responsible for depression, though.) You get aminos from food, especially proteins. For some people, supplementation (there are strategies for this) seems to relieve their depression. I couldn't really get it work consistently myself.
As for your worry about not having enough neurotransmitters... one study showed that a low tryptophan diet can cause depression. (Interesting, isn't it?) So yes, it seems like it's possible to not have enough. This might happen if you don't eat enough protein. Drugs often work by recycling the neurotransmitters you do have, but it's probably also helpful if your body has the building blocks to create them in the first place. It's also important that you get enough other nutrients that your body needs for the conversion of the precursors. For example, these would include some of the B vitamins. It's all a bit too complicated for me to explain well (I barely grasp it myself), but there's a lot of good info out there about it. Again I will mention the Ross book as one source. There's a lot of stuff in the archives here, too.
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 2, 2010, at 21:35:08
In reply to Re: What if I just don't have neurotransmitters? » inanimate peanut, posted by janejane on January 2, 2010, at 21:19:24
Well, I have 2 protein shakes per day from really high-quality protein, so I should be getting enough of the amino acids. I take a multi-vitamin and Emergen-C (which has lots of B Vitamins I think). I'm hoping that's enough.
As an aside, and maybe I need to post this as a question to you in the alternatives area, what, if not neurotransmitters, do some people believe causes depression? Is it a different set of chemicals in the body or something entirely different?
Posted by janejane on January 2, 2010, at 21:57:12
In reply to Re: What if I just don't have neurotransmitters?, posted by inanimate peanut on January 2, 2010, at 21:35:08
> As an aside, and maybe I need to post this as a question to you in the alternatives area, what, if not neurotransmitters, do some people believe causes depression? Is it a different set of chemicals in the body or something entirely different?
I'm not sure. This is something I remember coming across when looking at some article about why SSRIs allegedly aren't much better than placebo. (I don't remember if they had any other counter theories, sorry.) Of course all kinds of other conditions can have depression as a symptom. Whether neurotransmitters are always ultimately involved, I don't know. I'm still very much learning. To be honest, a lot of this stuff is very confusing to me since I don't have much of a science background. The chemistry is so complicated and things could go amiss in so many different ways. That said, it seems like for many people, adjusting neurotransmitters through meds works.
Posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2010, at 22:04:31
In reply to Re: What if I just don't have neurotransmitters? » inanimate peanut, posted by janejane on January 2, 2010, at 21:57:12
Just out of curiousity I wonder what google calls a neurotransmitter will google in a while. Phillipa
Posted by willey on January 2, 2010, at 22:24:34
In reply to Re: What if I just don't have neurotransmitters? » janejane, posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2010, at 22:04:31
Google lol doesent call it anything,but only searches.
But i do recomend anyone interested in pharmcology,basic of course,start with learning such terms as neurotransmiters,learn the 13 amino acids,and how each one does a specifc job.
Precursor means,as many amino acids are precrsors the to the chemical and are what determines the heathly balance.
Start small,make sure the site us user friendly ,there are sites that can speak about it to a person just being introduced.
For example i have just learned myself a TON from my girl on dopamine and its sites and pleasure reward etc,this is because its what she knows due to her problem.
Fun thing abouth this is u never learn it all,everyday i learn different things,im sure i make a great conversationist as i usualy bring up gaba and dopamine in convos lol.
But i will say it can be a addicting topic,knowing nothing about dopamine as i was a gaba man i loved listening to my girl put me in my cocky place with the info she knew,lol actualy i am very humble,i love to learn,sometimes i fear i give off that impression,and feel bad that im behind a screen where in person im a very humble guy.
Feel free to ask for any info i have phillipa as ihave collected quite a bit in my ten years.Hve fun!
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 3, 2010, at 13:17:24
In reply to Re: What if I just don't have neurotransmitters?, posted by willey on January 2, 2010, at 22:24:34
Do you know of a good place to start with the basics (on neurotransmitters, etc.)? Do I just need to find a neuropsych text somewhere? I doubt they will have those just hanging around the local bookstores where I am. Is there anywhere in particular on the web that does a good job on the basics?
Posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2010, at 18:20:09
In reply to Re: What if I just don't have neurotransmitters?, posted by willey on January 2, 2010, at 22:24:34
Geez didn't even need to know this for the psych national certification I took and of all places VA Beach. Visited Edgar Cayce Institute when there and stayed at the Sheraton on the beginning of boardwalk for a week as it's my favorite place. Why don't they require nurses to know these things? I wonder if the docs know them? Humm. Phillipa
Posted by Green Willow on January 3, 2010, at 21:38:16
In reply to What if I just don't have neurotransmitters?, posted by inanimate peanut on January 2, 2010, at 20:24:48
Interesting info at this site: http://www.neuroassist.com/
The premise here is that neurotransmitters can become deficient and need to be replenished. Next week I am going to a doctor to see about trying this treatment. Green Willow> So, all of these medications are designed to limit the reuptake of neurotransmitters. So what if I just don't have neurotransmitters there? What if I just don't have dopamine or serotonin or norepinephrine to block? You can block nothing completely and it's still nothing. This would mean none of the meds would work, which is what I'm experiencing. What do you think? Is this possible?
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 3, 2010, at 22:55:54
In reply to Re: What if I just don't have neurotransmitters? » inanimate peanut, posted by Green Willow on January 3, 2010, at 21:38:16
Thanks Green Willow! The site and especially the article links from it were very useful. It seems that "supplementing x" leads to far more complicated changes in neurotransmitters than we could anticipate. Good luck with your doc and keep us posted!!
Posted by conundrum on January 4, 2010, at 12:05:56
In reply to What if I just don't have neurotransmitters?, posted by inanimate peanut on January 2, 2010, at 20:24:48
if you can have a bowel movement you have serotonin. 95% percent of serotonin is in your guts. most other neurotransmitters act as hormones in other places in the body. Without them you would probably be dead.
Posted by mtdewcmu on January 6, 2010, at 15:34:43
In reply to Re: What if I just don't have neurotransmitters? » willey, posted by inanimate peanut on January 3, 2010, at 13:17:24
> Do you know of a good place to start with the basics (on neurotransmitters, etc.)? Do I just need to find a neuropsych text somewhere? I doubt they will have those just hanging around the local bookstores where I am. Is there anywhere in particular on the web that does a good job on the basics?
Here is an explanation of neurotransmitters as they relate to depression, from McMan's Depression and Bipolar Web: http://www.mcmanweb.com/neurotransmitters.html
Posted by mtdewcmu on January 6, 2010, at 15:47:32
In reply to Re: What if I just don't have neurotransmitters?, posted by mtdewcmu on January 6, 2010, at 15:34:43
>
> Here is an explanation of neurotransmitters as they relate to depression, from McMan's Depression and Bipolar Web: http://www.mcmanweb.com/neurotransmitters.htmlI apologize for the parts of that that are wrong or just don't make sense. But I think it at least introduces the major concepts and terms that you need to know.
Posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2010, at 21:17:07
In reply to Re: What if I just don't have neurotransmitters?, posted by mtdewcmu on January 6, 2010, at 15:47:32
The doc I saw today wants me to get Total Health Nutrients.com a product called brain calm as it works with Gaba my main problem. Said since the benzos now tire me try it. And be sure to let him know if it works. Phillipa thanks for the article. Simple for me to understand.
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 7, 2010, at 11:16:21
In reply to Re: What if I just don't have neurotransmitters? » mtdewcmu, posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2010, at 21:17:07
That was another one of those "which neurotransmitter are you short of?" tests. I always end up short of everything except GABA, which is always fine. So, I wouldn't know which one to take anyway. Your GABA pill is just the combo of inositol, GABA, L-Glycine, and Passionflower, all of which have been discussed on here except passion flower, I think. I don't know-- looks interesting. Good luck Phillipa!
Posted by Phillipa on January 7, 2010, at 20:18:10
In reply to Re: What if I just don't have neurotransmitters? » Phillipa, posted by inanimate peanut on January 7, 2010, at 11:16:21
Thanks the bioidentical ob-gyn said to take Brain Calm Which has passion flower and Gaba in it. There is a website for it called Total Health Nutrients .com. It's $20 not bad. I wonder if you can buy it in a store? Phillipa
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