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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by delna on October 16, 2009, at 11:35:32
Hi,
I've been taking Parnate for a few weeks now for suicidal bipolar depression. I also have SEVERE OCD (as a totally separate disorder) that's nothing to do with depression. It becomes psychotic really fast but I am an excellent responder to SSRI's and SNRI's (so it usually does not come to that).What my pdoc failed to tell me (till today) was that he was not totally sure if Parnate would keep the OCD away. Unfortunately serotonin based drugs cannot be added to Parnate and from what I have read so far (in journals) Parnate has very little benifit in OCD.
But I wanted to know if anyone has had personal experience with Parnate and OCD.
Currently I am considering giving Parnate up anyway (for various reasons) and if I am not pretty confident it will stop my OCD from returning then that will tip the balance for me- I will give it up immediately instead of taking that chance (since the wash out period and withdrawal means I have to wait before adding an SSRI/ SNRI and in the mean time I may fully lose my mind!!! No kidding!)I would really appreciate anyone's personal experiences with Parnate and OCD. Good and bad.
I even posted on an OCD board and only one woman said it helped her but there are more Parnate users here so hopefully......Thanks so much.
Love
DPS: Antipsychotics do little to keep the OCD away- they only help with the psychotic component. Plus I developed a TD reaction on one so I don't want to risk it.
Posted by Phillipa on October 16, 2009, at 12:59:55
In reply to Parnate 4 OCD? Anyone with personal experiences?, posted by delna on October 16, 2009, at 11:35:32
Delna kind of in a rock and a hard place so to speak benzos? I don't know. This is a new one for me to read about. Love Phillipa
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 16, 2009, at 20:07:05
In reply to Parnate 4 OCD? Anyone with personal experiences?, posted by delna on October 16, 2009, at 11:35:32
> Hi,
> I've been taking Parnate for a few weeks now for suicidal bipolar depression. I also have SEVERE OCD (as a totally separate disorder) that's nothing to do with depression. It becomes psychotic really fast but I am an excellent responder to SSRI's and SNRI's (so it usually does not come to that).
>
> What my pdoc failed to tell me (till today) was that he was not totally sure if Parnate would keep the OCD away. Unfortunately serotonin based drugs cannot be added to Parnate and from what I have read so far (in journals) Parnate has very little benifit in OCD.
>
> But I wanted to know if anyone has had personal experience with Parnate and OCD.
>
>
> Currently I am considering giving Parnate up anyway (for various reasons) and if I am not pretty confident it will stop my OCD from returning then that will tip the balance for me- I will give it up immediately instead of taking that chance (since the wash out period and withdrawal means I have to wait before adding an SSRI/ SNRI and in the mean time I may fully lose my mind!!! No kidding!)
>
> I would really appreciate anyone's personal experiences with Parnate and OCD. Good and bad.
> I even posted on an OCD board and only one woman said it helped her but there are more Parnate users here so hopefully......
>
> Thanks so much.
> Love
> D
>
> PS: Antipsychotics do little to keep the OCD away- they only help with the psychotic component. Plus I developed a TD reaction on one so I don't want to risk it.
>
>
>i don't mean to scare you but at 10 and 20mg, Parnate significantly worsened my OCD, especially at night, where the drug would take on a horrible paranoic quality that left me in near-tears.
the GOOD NEWS is that at 30mg and 40mg it is having a very good effect on physical anxiety, and in turn helping the OCD. i imagine higher doses will reap more benefits in that respect, so if you do want to continue with it, be patient and maybe have some benzos on hand. there are a couple of studies on pubmed where Parnate is successfully used to treat OCD. Nardil made mine worse when i trialled it, so you never know
if this is too personal, please feel free not to answer, but did your OCD turn psychotic from stress? mine's pretty bad. if i thought about just trying to manage it through therapy if Parnate doesn't work out (and indeed "going psychotic" is one of my OCD fears), so i was just wondering if it can happen to any OCD sufferer ..
thanks
Posted by delna on October 17, 2009, at 1:46:52
In reply to Re: Parnate 4 OCD? Anyone with personal experience, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 16, 2009, at 20:07:05
Hi
Thanks for the info.
I saw the pub med articles (someone had posted a link here) and it talks about 2 people or about 5o% success rates in a small population of 8. I also read an alogrythym of OCD mamagement......http://www.psychiatryonline.com/popup.aspx?aID=149623
I am on klonopin at 2mg which I take for sleep and have done for years but it has never helped the OCD.My OCD doesn't come from general anxiety (which I also suffer from)- rather it has a existence all if its own. Initially doctors thought it was part of my mood disorder/ general anxiety.
But I get it even when I am high and the most telling is that a) I was diagnosed with having a co-morbid OCD condition by one of the most senior pdocs in the US b) when I was initially put on Geodon for the bipolar depression and anxiety, my pdoc thought Geodon would control the 'Obsessions' because it would help the anxiety put Geodon has activy on serotonin. So he withdrew me from my maintenance dose of an SSRI which I did because I trusted him implicitly.
All my mood and anxiety symptoms went away with the Geodon. I was 100% stable and anxiety free for some months. But suddenly 'bang' one day I got an obsessive thought which developed into an OCD episode that rapidly took over everything. Although he did not want to an an SSRI, initially taking me off Provigil as he thought it may be causing the OCD he eventually had to give me an SSRI. He also confirmed that OCD was indeed separate.So to answer your question, no it is not stress related at all. My OCD fears are typical of people who suffer from 'pure' OCD like contamination etc
Honestly I don't understand your question. No, it is not to personal at all- please ask away. I just don't understand what you are asking...
" if this is too personal, please feel free not to answer, but did your OCD turn psychotic from stress? mine's pretty bad. if i thought about just trying to manage it through therapy if Parnate doesn't work out (and indeed "going psychotic" is one of my OCD fears), so i was just wondering if it can happen to any OCD sufferer .."Thanks for the help and advice. And please do ask me the question again....
Take Care
Love
D
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 17, 2009, at 2:05:36
In reply to Re: Parnate 4 OCD? Anyone with personal experience » g_g_g_unit, posted by delna on October 17, 2009, at 1:46:52
>
> Thanks for the help and advice. And please do ask me the question again....
>maybe it's a language-use problem. you said your OCD becomes "psychotic" really fast. does that mean you get real psychosis - like hallucinations, etc.? or you just mean it's really BAD OCD?
i was just curious if REAL psychosis (hallucinations, etc.) could appear in anyone when triggered by stress or whatever, or if there has to be some kind of genetic predisposition.
Posted by Maxime on October 17, 2009, at 10:57:34
In reply to Re: Parnate 4 OCD? Anyone with personal experience » g_g_g_unit, posted by delna on October 17, 2009, at 1:46:52
Hi, have you tried CBT for your OCD? It sounds quite severe, maybe meds aren't the answer in this case.
Posted by delna on October 17, 2009, at 13:03:04
In reply to Re: Parnate 4 OCD? Anyone with personal experience, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 17, 2009, at 2:05:36
> maybe it's a language-use problem. you said your OCD becomes "psychotic" really fast. does that mean you get real psychosis - like hallucinations, etc.? or you just mean it's really BAD OCD?
>
> i was just curious if REAL psychosis (hallucinations, etc.) could appear in anyone when triggered by stress or whatever, or if there has to be some kind of genetic predisposition.
No, I mean psychotic. And I do think there must be something genetic about it because it doesn't happen to the majority f OCD patients. Mine has been long standing (started when I was 4-5 yrs old) and always becomes delusional (which is defined as psychosis). if not treatedFor example when I was younger, I used to keep having to check the mirror constantly because my face 'physically' changed every time I looked. Sometimes I looked like a man, other times a demon or it just mutated everytime. I actually saw this and even though it made no sense and people would say ' is that logical' it didn't matter because that is what I SAW. Ofcourse it started as a mere obsessional thought (I look like a monster) and progressed to a point that I didn't really know what I looked like because what I saw was different from reality (in retrospect)
Another time I started believing I had MS and kept checking myself for symptoms. Soon I started imaging symptoms- like I couldn't move my leg or close my eyes (or seeing flashing lights) and no one could convince me it was in in my head. I ended up in hospital because I actually believed I had it (despite specialists telling me that I didn't) and was going to kill myself. For the acute delusions I was given and antipsychotic but my pdoc (in London) was also meanwhile titrating me up on Effexor. The zyprexia went in a month, the effexor (300mg) stayed and the OCD didn't come back.
My last episode was perhaps the most scary because I suddenly got a thought that I was dangerous and may kill someone by mistake. The obsessional thoughts didn't go and soon I started truly believing I was dangerous and would suddenly harm someone randomly. I stopped going out and wanted to be put in a ward for the criminally insane because I was so sure it was true. I even started believing I had killed characters on TV. But because I started an SSRI really fast, this didn't get so out of control. It was just OCD- not yet psychotic.
Hope I didnt ramble too much and answered your question
Love
D
Posted by delna on October 17, 2009, at 13:06:26
In reply to Re: Parnate 4 OCD? Anyone with personal experience » delna, posted by Maxime on October 17, 2009, at 10:57:34
> Hi, have you tried CBT for your OCD? It sounds quite severe, maybe meds aren't the answer in this case.
Infact SSRI's work wonders for my OCD!In an acute attack I have to take higher doses but then i can bring it down to low dose for maintenance...
Have tried CBT and loads of other therapy types and they don't work well.
Simple SSRI's do the trick but do NOTHING for my depression..TC
D
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 17, 2009, at 22:16:57
In reply to Re: Parnate 4 OCD? Anyone with personal experience » g_g_g_unit, posted by delna on October 17, 2009, at 13:03:04
> > maybe it's a language-use problem. you said your OCD becomes "psychotic" really fast. does that mean you get real psychosis - like hallucinations, etc.? or you just mean it's really BAD OCD?
> >
> > i was just curious if REAL psychosis (hallucinations, etc.) could appear in anyone when triggered by stress or whatever, or if there has to be some kind of genetic predisposition.
>
>
> No, I mean psychotic. And I do think there must be something genetic about it because it doesn't happen to the majority f OCD patients. Mine has been long standing (started when I was 4-5 yrs old) and always becomes delusional (which is defined as psychosis). if not treated
>
> For example when I was younger, I used to keep having to check the mirror constantly because my face 'physically' changed every time I looked. Sometimes I looked like a man, other times a demon or it just mutated everytime. I actually saw this and even though it made no sense and people would say ' is that logical' it didn't matter because that is what I SAW. Ofcourse it started as a mere obsessional thought (I look like a monster) and progressed to a point that I didn't really know what I looked like because what I saw was different from reality (in retrospect)
>
> Another time I started believing I had MS and kept checking myself for symptoms. Soon I started imaging symptoms- like I couldn't move my leg or close my eyes (or seeing flashing lights) and no one could convince me it was in in my head. I ended up in hospital because I actually believed I had it (despite specialists telling me that I didn't) and was going to kill myself. For the acute delusions I was given and antipsychotic but my pdoc (in London) was also meanwhile titrating me up on Effexor. The zyprexia went in a month, the effexor (300mg) stayed and the OCD didn't come back.
>
> My last episode was perhaps the most scary because I suddenly got a thought that I was dangerous and may kill someone by mistake. The obsessional thoughts didn't go and soon I started truly believing I was dangerous and would suddenly harm someone randomly. I stopped going out and wanted to be put in a ward for the criminally insane because I was so sure it was true. I even started believing I had killed characters on TV. But because I started an SSRI really fast, this didn't get so out of control. It was just OCD- not yet psychotic.
>
> Hope I didnt ramble too much and answered your question
>
> Love
> Dno, that definitely answer my question. i'm so sorry you've had to struggle with something so intense. thanks for having the courage to share. my OCD is really bad too - and there have certainly been points where i thought i would lose my mind from stress - but it has not graduated into psychosis thankfully. still i'm not really getting anywhere with meds. i think i'm going to give CBT a more concerted effort when i start next week
Posted by delna on October 18, 2009, at 1:05:14
In reply to Re: Parnate 4 OCD? Anyone with personal experience, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 17, 2009, at 22:16:57
> no, that definitely answer my question. i'm so sorry you've had to struggle with something so intense.
Thanks..thanks for having the courage to share. my OCD is really bad too - and there have certainly been points where i thought i would lose my mind from stress - but it has not graduated into psychosis thankfully. still i'm not really getting anywhere with meds. i think i'm going to give CBT a more concerted effort when i start next week
>Yes, OCD is awful. I'm sorry too that you have to deal with it. Are you not responsive to any drugs at all?
Well I hope the CBT really helps. I have heard some success stories of people helped by CBT for OCD, when I was in hospital.
Take care
Love
D
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 18, 2009, at 3:36:56
In reply to Re: Parnate 4 OCD? Anyone with personal experience » g_g_g_unit, posted by delna on October 18, 2009, at 1:05:14
> Yes, OCD is awful. I'm sorry too that you have to deal with it. Are you not responsive to any drugs at all?i am, but i'm fussy, and some (SSRI's) make other problems (social anxiety) worse ..
>
> Well I hope the CBT really helps. I have heard some success stories of people helped by CBT for OCD, when I was in hospital.
>
> Take care
> Love
> DCBT has helped a bit in the past. i'm just a little lazy with it. i plan on being more concerted this time round.
This is the end of the thread.
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