![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 26. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on September 26, 2009, at 12:29:58
In reply to meds and emotional numbing, posted by atypical on September 26, 2009, at 11:38:34
I feel the same way not on nardil and low doses of other meds. I thought I was plain mean and horrible guess not alone. Sorry you feel this way I do empathize with you. Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on September 26, 2009, at 20:29:43
In reply to meds and emotional numbing, posted by atypical on September 26, 2009, at 11:38:34
I would think Lithium is more likely the guilty one here. Anything is possible. But of the two meds, I would suspect Lithium first, Nardil second.
I have experienced emotional numbing primarily from serotonin agents, which Lithium is and enhancer of, but also with dopamine agents. The initial rush dopamine agents give can later turn into numbness. So either of these meds could be at fault, but I suspect Lithium the most. It is generally a dulling inhibitory molecule, not an excitatory one.
You might ask your doc about cautiously lowering the dose of whichever med you suspect the most. You may find a decent compromise that allows both antidepressant and antinumbness to coexist.
Posted by jillybug on September 27, 2009, at 1:39:05
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing, posted by bleauberry on September 26, 2009, at 20:29:43
It is called emotional blunting what you are going through. I know this because I am going through the same thing. I am currently withdrawing from my medications. Hoping this terrible (non) feeling will go away.
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on September 27, 2009, at 7:48:24
In reply to meds and emotional numbing, posted by atypical on September 26, 2009, at 11:38:34
This is one of the main reasons I not fond of using meds.
Posted by bulldog2 on September 27, 2009, at 19:06:33
In reply to meds and emotional numbing, posted by atypical on September 26, 2009, at 11:38:34
> So one of my good friends told me that I haven't been "me" for the last few months. This coincides about the time I started taking Nardil. She said I had more spark before or something. Ironically, I probably was more depressed back then. She said I don't seem to feel anything. And she is so correct. For the past few weeks I haven't really felt much emotion. I even started dating someone and have no feeling for her. No excitement. (Maybe it's her!) And my libido is, of course, very low due to meds. Even best friend, to whom I am attracted, I no longer have have strong feelings of "love" for. Or they are fleeting. This is an awful way to be. But I don't want to be depressed.
>
> Does anyone else feel this way on Nardil or any other medication? Does it effect your relationships?
>
> Nardil 75mg (on Nardil for past 2-3 months)
> Lithium 900mg (augmenting agent for depression)Sometimes the way we are brings us great psychological pain. That might be the way people know us but we have a right to seek a solution to that pain. The result may be some changes that people are not used to. It does bother me that some people think they have to stay the way they are as if it is written in stone somewhere.
Some lose weight if they are obese. Some even seek out plastic surgery to correct a feature that they feel is ugly.
So why can we not change something about our character that brings us pain? Sometimes people like us because there is something they can control or manipulate. So if you change that they are not pleased.
Posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2009, at 19:30:47
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing, posted by bulldog2 on September 27, 2009, at 19:06:33
To me losing weight can be seen and is proven, same with plastic surgery you see before and after pics and you look different as something was done to the outside. But not the inside. Almost like the meds change your personality? And it can't be seen that I know of or any tests available to say what you need all trial and error. Just my thoughts. Phillipa
Posted by bulldog2 on September 27, 2009, at 19:50:41
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing, posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2009, at 19:30:47
> To me losing weight can be seen and is proven, same with plastic surgery you see before and after pics and you look different as something was done to the outside. But not the inside. Almost like the meds change your personality? And it can't be seen that I know of or any tests available to say what you need all trial and error. Just my thoughts. Phillipa
Regardless we still have the right to change something about our character or personality. If something about us brings us pain we aren't obligated to live with it. We take a chance when we take meds.
Like ace recently he was afraid the meds we're changing him and he wanted to stop the nardil. But as the dose was reduced he started getting depressed again. Than he raised the dose and became happy again. All I'm saying we have the right to change anything about us that brings us pain.
If I remember correctly you supported ace to start back on the nardil.I don't understand your point. The person can tell you wether they're now happy or depressed. That's the indicator of wether the med is working.
So what's the big deal that one's personalilty has changed? Maybe I didn't like the old one.
Also plastic surgery can be dangerous. People often die to look different. Plus do you really know all the sides that may happen in the future.
Posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2009, at 20:33:58
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing, posted by bulldog2 on September 27, 2009, at 19:50:41
Bulldog how does Ace relate to this post? Know him a very long time and his personality was always the same. Only time different was off his nardil. For him it's magic. His personality is the same to me I feel. Phillipa kind of don't get it?
Posted by metafunj on September 27, 2009, at 20:49:59
In reply to meds and emotional numbing, posted by atypical on September 26, 2009, at 11:38:34
Well I felt this way after stopping prozac, but many people feel this way while on drugs. If you want to keep taking something another drug might be better. Parnate might be a better drug for you than nardil, since it works more on dopamine and a little less on serotonin when compared to nardil.
Posted by Sigismund on September 27, 2009, at 23:57:05
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing, posted by bulldog2 on September 27, 2009, at 19:50:41
>All I'm saying we have the right to change anything about us that brings us pain.
Not if it makes us feel good.
Posted by bulldog2 on September 28, 2009, at 9:55:43
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing » bulldog2, posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2009, at 20:33:58
> Bulldog how does Ace relate to this post? Know him a very long time and his personality was always the same. Only time different was off his nardil. For him it's magic. His personality is the same to me I feel. Phillipa kind of don't get it?
Yes it's obvious you don't get it. I was trying to make a point that people have a right to take meds to to relieve pyschological pain even if other people feel that their personality is changing. I feel that feeling better at least for me is more important. Don't care if people don't like my new personality.
In reference to ace. Not to long ago he started a thread about coming off nardil because he felt that it had changed his personality. But now he was also feeling depressed.
Many people wrote posts encouraging him to stop trying to get off of nardil and to up his dose. He stopped trying to get off of nardil and upped his dose of nardil and said he felt better.
For me at least if I could feel better on meds and people thought my personality had changed I wouldn't give a hoot. That beats feeling depressed and people liking my depressed self.
Now Phillip enough about this.
Posted by bulldog2 on September 28, 2009, at 9:59:53
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing, posted by Sigismund on September 27, 2009, at 23:57:05
> >All I'm saying we have the right to change anything about us that brings us pain.
>
> Not if it makes us feel good.Ah yes I forgot the 11th commandment. Thou shalt not feel good. You will labor your whole life and feel miserable and God will be pleased.
Posted by number42 on September 28, 2009, at 14:43:10
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing » bulldog2, posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2009, at 20:33:58
I'm on 80mgs. of Prozac, and the one thing i am aware of is that i can't cry.
#42
Posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2009, at 18:55:39
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing » Phillipa, posted by number42 on September 28, 2009, at 14:43:10
Me either. Guess it's the numbing? Love Phillipa
Posted by pedr on September 29, 2009, at 8:49:27
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing, posted by bulldog2 on September 28, 2009, at 9:59:53
I think there are 2 strands to this thread
a) atypical's initial question:
> Does anyone else feel this way on Nardil or any other medication? Does it effect your relationships?
b) whether it's a good or bad thing that meds change our personalities.In response to a) yes, it has hugely affected my relationships. Most people think I am now more 'Pete' than before. My parents think I am 'doing really well', as does my wife. However since my self-loathing is less frequent and intense and my confidence is higher (not high, mind), I stand up for myself more, I am more assertive. My wife has interpreted this as me being more combative and petty. She's so wrong she doesn't know it (that's a joke). So in general for me, it's been a very positive experience but it has indeed changed 'me', whatever 'me' does and does not entail. As for the sex drive, it seems as though I am trapped between a rock and a hard place (no pun intended) - either I have no libido due to feeling loathsome and depressed or I have no libido due to the Nardil. Feh.
As for b) I couldn't agree more with bulldog2. We, as human beings have a right to be healthy and well. Many people know and like 'the depressed Pete' I am told. Now that I'm improving and changing, some of them will like me less in all probability. Some will like me more. It's not black&white. If someone finds me less likeable, that's a shame and it's regrettable but it pales in comparison to the sheer agony of being chronically depressed and wanting to be dead. End of story.
Pete
This is a very interesting thread!
Posted by Sigismund on September 29, 2009, at 16:35:37
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing, posted by bulldog2 on September 28, 2009, at 9:55:43
>Not to long ago he started a thread about coming off nardil because he felt that it had changed his personality.
The other thing he mentioned, IIRC, was that he had ethical issues with it, whatever that may have meant to him.
Posted by SLS on September 29, 2009, at 17:30:59
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing, posted by bulldog2 on September 28, 2009, at 9:55:43
I just wanted to add that it happens very often that when someone who has been chronically depressed for years gets well, the people around them feel that they don't know the new person that has emerged. This is indeed true. When someone suddenly becomes optimistic, animated, and assertive, this can upset the dynamics of relationships that were formally based upon the affected person's depressed personality. Some people will not like the change in personality that occurs when depression disappears.
Embrace the people whom embrace the healthy you, and have tolerance and patience with those whom do not.
- Scott
Posted by metafunj on September 29, 2009, at 17:55:25
In reply to meds and emotional numbing, posted by atypical on September 26, 2009, at 11:38:34
It seems as if there are two points in this conversation that are being blurred.
One is that some people will not accept you once you start feeling better. This is true. Some people just aren't used to the new you or they might have had some psychological need for you to feel bad, ie, misery loves company, they feel better for being a shoulder to cry on, someone feeling worse than them makes them feel better. I don't really get why this happens but it can and does.
The other point is that if your friends and yourself notice that you don't have much emotion than this is NOT a good thing! Being emotionally blunted is not remission. If the blunting lasts long enough or gets worse, you won't care if you are alive or dead. Also if you don't feel excitement during the initial dating phase you probably won't be able to feel love or a strong sense of commitment in the future.
Something to talk over with your psychiatrist. Here is another tip, if you are feeling this on Nardil, I'm doubtful that an SSRI would help.
Posted by sowhysosad on September 29, 2009, at 18:02:28
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing, posted by SLS on September 29, 2009, at 17:30:59
Excellent point. I've noticed the dynamics of my closest relationships change depending on whether I'm depressed or well, or whether the other person is for that matter.
I guess some people might find it hard to adjust to the "well you" if they've only ever known you depressed.
> I just wanted to add that it happens very often that when someone who has been chronically depressed for years gets well, the people around them feel that they don't know the new person that has emerged. This is indeed true. When someone suddenly becomes optimistic, animated, and assertive, this can upset the dynamics of relationships that were formally based upon the affected person's depressed personality.
Posted by g_g_g_unit on September 29, 2009, at 19:15:46
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing » SLS, posted by sowhysosad on September 29, 2009, at 18:02:28
strange you feel that way on Nardil. i felt alive (or hypomanic again) for the first couple of months in a way that i had never felt before. i've never heard of it described as numbing?
Posted by bleauberry on October 3, 2009, at 8:07:43
In reply to meds and emotional numbing, posted by atypical on September 26, 2009, at 11:38:34
I was browsing around revolutionhealth.com yesterday, and saw numerous reports of people using the supplement tyrosine to reverse AD numbing. It worked so well that some of them found they could reduce or elimate their meds. In others, they still needed the meds, but tyrosine corrected the imbalance causing the numbing. Actually, I did not see a single report where it failed to do so.
The population here at pbabble might be more difficult than that population, I don't know. And MAOIs are a different game. But tyrosine being cheap and OTC and a natural protein is probably worth a look. I wouldn't have mentioined it except I was kind of surprised how well it worked for numerous people. Usually when reviewing any supplement or med there are plenty of negative stories. I didn't see that with tyrosine.
Posted by sowhysosad on October 3, 2009, at 9:35:03
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing, posted by bleauberry on October 3, 2009, at 8:07:43
I've been taking 1-1.5g per day of L-tyrosine to reverse negative effects of fluoxetine and I can highly recommend it.
My mood is more stable, I've had some really good moods I previously didn't have, and I've also had less anxiety.
> I was browsing around revolutionhealth.com yesterday, and saw numerous reports of people using the supplement tyrosine to reverse AD numbing. It worked so well that some of them found they could reduce or elimate their meds. In others, they still needed the meds, but tyrosine corrected the imbalance causing the numbing. Actually, I did not see a single report where it failed to do so.
>
> The population here at pbabble might be more difficult than that population, I don't know. And MAOIs are a different game. But tyrosine being cheap and OTC and a natural protein is probably worth a look. I wouldn't have mentioined it except I was kind of surprised how well it worked for numerous people. Usually when reviewing any supplement or med there are plenty of negative stories. I didn't see that with tyrosine.
>
>
Posted by metafunj on October 4, 2009, at 1:22:43
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing, posted by sowhysosad on October 3, 2009, at 9:35:03
what brand of l tyrosine and when do you take it? with or without meals?
I tried it before and it did nothing, but it was pretty old like maybe a year. I don't know if it becomes in active or whatever.
Posted by sowhysosad on October 4, 2009, at 18:11:13
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing, posted by metafunj on October 4, 2009, at 1:22:43
> what brand of l tyrosine and when do you take it? with or without meals?
I'm taking the NOW Foods brand which someone recommended in another thread here - always at least half an hour before meals and two hours after.
Have you tried adding 5-10mg of NADH? I hear it increases the availability of tyrosine hydroxylase so you can convert more of the L-Tyrosine into dopa.
Posted by bleauberry on October 4, 2009, at 19:03:23
In reply to Re: meds and emotional numbing, posted by metafunj on October 4, 2009, at 1:22:43
> what brand of l tyrosine and when do you take it? with or without meals?
>
> I tried it before and it did nothing, but it was pretty old like maybe a year. I don't know if it becomes in active or whatever.You might want to go to sjwinfo.org and revolutionhealth.com and find out what brands people used. The two I recall off the top of my head were TwinLabs and Swanson. I remember one person saying a couple brands worked great while some other brand was horrible, and that he did a second challenge test to confirm.
Dosing matters too. A few people took it before bed, while most take it in the morning. Dose sizes vary dramatically, all the way from 150mg per day up to 3000mg per day. It takes some experimenting. Taking too small of a dose will not work, and taking too much too soon will scare one away with side effects.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.