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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by SLS on September 28, 2009, at 6:02:48
In reply to SSRI's and body weakness, posted by viper1431 on September 27, 2009, at 23:40:44
> Just wondering if anyone has any clues about why ssri's cause me to have extreme body weakness to the point it's really hard to get out of bed. My body feels so drained of energy and weak and sort of like i've just finished one hell of a weightlifting workout.
> I've been working on fixing my problems with depression and social phobia for 8 years and i've been on evry AD available in Australia, so the the ones that work are ssri's in that i feel better in my mind and i'm able to actually talk to strangers without pre-planning and stressing over everything i should say next, however it leaves me with the problem that although my mind is better my body just can't function anymore so i become bed ridden due to physical problems now instead of mental ones.
>
> It happens on even the lowest doses, i'm currently taking about 12mg of zoloft (50mg tablet cut into quarters) It's been 12 hours since my last dose (which knocks me out cold for the night) and i'm strugglnig to even type now as my arms want to just fall off.
>
> Anyone think of any reasons why the ssri's are doing this to me, all of them at that!
>
> The TCA's just don't seem to improve my social phobia and the MAOI's cause me serious hypotension but even putting up with that they didn't improve anything but my depression, in Parnate's cause it made it worse.
>
> Cheers
> James
I have no explanation for what is happening to you biologically. However, I wonder if adding a stimulant or Wellbutrin might help.Alexanderfromdenmark might be right. However, intuitively, I find it hard to believe that your asthenia would begin immediately upon the exposure to a drug if it were just a matter of reduced GH or testosterone secretion; this, despite the observation that SSRIs can indeed reduce GH and testosterone levels. I could be wrong. I would love to see some data on this.
In any event, asthenia is listed as a side effect of SSRIs.
- Scott
Posted by NewQuestions on September 28, 2009, at 8:22:46
In reply to SSRI's and body weakness, posted by viper1431 on September 27, 2009, at 23:40:44
I would get the usually blood tests to rule out various organic causes but I think you will find it is the SSRI. It is a common side effect.
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on September 28, 2009, at 8:24:07
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness » Alexanderfromdenmark, posted by viper1431 on September 28, 2009, at 4:52:46
> Havn't had growth hormone tested. Did have testosterone tested and it was a tad on the high side.
Could you by any chance post your blood results?
Were taken on or off drugs?have you tried Nardil?
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on September 28, 2009, at 9:00:19
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on September 28, 2009, at 8:24:07
Perhaps you could take Benzo's as needed?
I feel your exetreme fatigue seems like a very strong sign that you should not be on chronic ssri therapy.
Posted by polarbear206 on September 28, 2009, at 9:50:34
In reply to SSRI's and body weakness, posted by viper1431 on September 27, 2009, at 23:40:44
> Just wondering if anyone has any clues about why ssri's cause me to have extreme body weakness to the point it's really hard to get out of bed. My body feels so drained of energy and weak and sort of like i've just finished one hell of a weightlifting workout.
> I've been working on fixing my problems with depression and social phobia for 8 years and i've been on evry AD available in Australia, so the the ones that work are ssri's in that i feel better in my mind and i'm able to actually talk to strangers without pre-planning and stressing over everything i should say next, however it leaves me with the problem that although my mind is better my body just can't function anymore so i become bed ridden due to physical problems now instead of mental ones.
>
> It happens on even the lowest doses, i'm currently taking about 12mg of zoloft (50mg tablet cut into quarters) It's been 12 hours since my last dose (which knocks me out cold for the night) and i'm strugglnig to even type now as my arms want to just fall off.
>
> Anyone think of any reasons why the ssri's are doing this to me, all of them at that!
>
> The TCA's just don't seem to improve my social phobia and the MAOI's cause me serious hypotension but even putting up with that they didn't improve anything but my depression, in Parnate's cause it made it worse.
>
> Cheers
> JamesPerhaps a more activating AD, such as an SNRI. Have you tried Effexor or another in the same family?
Posted by viper1431 on September 28, 2009, at 10:43:32
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness, posted by polarbear206 on September 28, 2009, at 9:50:34
> Perhaps a more activating AD, such as an SNRI. Have you tried Effexor or another in the same family?
Yeah effexor and cymbalta both do it as well as making me drowsy, the mosre stimulating something is the more drosy it makes me, parnate for eg knocks me out cold no matter how hard i try to stay awake.
I've just been on imipramine, it wasn't helping enough with the depression(well at all really) and was just making me sleep too much.
Posted by viper1431 on September 28, 2009, at 10:45:37
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on September 28, 2009, at 8:24:07
> > Havn't had growth hormone tested. Did have testosterone tested and it was a tad on the high side.
>
> Could you by any chance post your blood results?
> Were taken on or off drugs?
>
> have you tried Nardil?yeah i've had 4 attempts at nardil. I havn't been able to get around the hypetension problems. It drops my BP straight down to 70/40 and whenever i try and get up i simply faint about 20 seconds later no matter how long i sit for first ect.
I'll have to find out the blood results, i did't ask at the time was the actual reading was.
Posted by viper1431 on September 28, 2009, at 10:47:32
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness » viper1431, posted by SLS on September 28, 2009, at 6:02:48
>
> I have no explanation for what is happening to you biologically. However, I wonder if adding a stimulant or Wellbutrin might help.
>> In any event, asthenia is listed as a side effect of SSRIs.
>
>
> - ScottStimulants arn't possible for me to get a hold of around here, damn laws. I tried wellbutrin but it made me really droswy and agitated/bad tempered. Anything stimulating seems to do that.
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on September 28, 2009, at 11:31:23
In reply to SSRI's and body weakness, posted by viper1431 on September 27, 2009, at 23:40:44
What about Lyrica. Have you tried that?
Posted by polarbear206 on September 28, 2009, at 11:35:53
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness » polarbear206, posted by viper1431 on September 28, 2009, at 10:43:32
> > Perhaps a more activating AD, such as an SNRI. Have you tried Effexor or another in the same family?
>
> Yeah effexor and cymbalta both do it as well as making me drowsy, the mosre stimulating something is the more drosy it makes me, parnate for eg knocks me out cold no matter how hard i try to stay awake.
> I've just been on imipramine, it wasn't helping enough with the depression(well at all really) and was just making me sleep too much.I'm wondering if you might benefit from an add on such as Lamictal to augment you AD. What were your symptoms like prior to going on meds? Age, sleep patterns, energy patterns, what degree of anxiety did you experience. Free floating, situational, etc.. Why I ask is because when I was on monotherapy with an AD, I was extremely fatigued and felt like my limbs weighed a ton. I slept alot, and was in a fog. I had some mixed states as well. Also have SAD and seasonal changes with energy levels. Soft bipolar.
Posted by manic666 on September 28, 2009, at 12:56:03
In reply to SSRI's and body weakness, posted by viper1431 on September 27, 2009, at 23:40:44
i take 150mg of sertraline the genitic zoloft, but i have anxierty. an it works to a good extent on that, but the aches an pains you get are bad , an when i take a long walk its hard work an i fall to sleep soon after.i have arthritis an my med make,s it worse, cymbalta as someone said is great for pain an the run down feeling. but sadly for me not much else
Posted by bleauberry on September 28, 2009, at 17:05:02
In reply to SSRI's and body weakness, posted by viper1431 on September 27, 2009, at 23:40:44
In the USA we have what are called Integrative MDs. They are full fledged medical doctors who have also been studied and licensed in natural treatments of diseases, as well as schooled on a wide variety of lab tests unknown to mainstream doctors. I am wondering, do you have Integrative MDs in your country? I'm pretty sure you do. It would be worth looking. They can find and identify things that would baffle your regular doctor forever.
Another thought crossed my mind that you may not be able to do psychiatric meds for whatever unknown reason. It is possible. It happens. They are very limited meds in what they do and they may not be doing much for your problem but may be doing a lot to worsen some other unseen problem.
Do you have ticks in Australia? I think you do? Your symptoms and your unusual intolerances of low doses raise a yellow flag. I catch a ton of heat for this topic here, but I know a ton about it. Some quirky symptoms that look baffling just jump off the page when you know what to look for.
Most antidepressants shut down norepinephrine firing, at least temporarily and sometimes permanently. If your biochemistry is unable for some reason to adapt to that, fatigue would be an obvious outcome. Low adrenal function is a likely first stop in hunt.
I mentioned the Integrative MDs because you would want to be tested for cortisol (4 saliva samples in a day in order to see the entire curve over a 24 hour period). Any other cortisol tests are worthless, as they only tell you if your adrenals are dead or alive. Would you want a heart test that only says your heart is dead or alive at the moment you take a single test? This would identify adrenal hypofunction commonly called adrenal fatigue. The primary symptoms are weakness, fatigue, and depression, worsened by a wide variety of meds and supplements.
If the adrenals are weak, thyroid is too, regardless of what your blood tests say. Those numbers are a very broad scale...people who are actually hypothyroid may appear normal on a test and yet have their symptoms resolve completely with thyroid treatment.
If you have ever had any exposure to ticks, that opens a whole new chapter that is a possible explanation of your entire journey since day 1.
Posted by viper1431 on September 28, 2009, at 22:06:22
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness, posted by bleauberry on September 28, 2009, at 17:05:02
> I mentioned the Integrative MDs because you would want to be tested for cortisol (4 saliva samples in a day in order to see the entire curve over a 24 hour period). Any other cortisol tests are worthless, as they only tell you if your adrenals are dead or alive. Would you want a heart test that only says your heart is dead or alive at the moment you take a single test? This would identify adrenal hypofunction commonly called adrenal fatigue. The primary symptoms are weakness, fatigue, and depression, worsened by a wide variety of meds and supplements.
>
> If the adrenals are weak, thyroid is too, regardless of what your blood tests say. Those numbers are a very broad scale...people who are actually hypothyroid may appear normal on a test and yet have their symptoms resolve completely with thyroid treatment.
>
> If you have ever had any exposure to ticks, that opens a whole new chapter that is a possible explanation of your entire journey since day 1.I have actually asked a few doctors about a cortisol test but it seems no one wants to let me have one. You have to stay in hospital overnight here to get one done and it has to be by an endocsomething which takes months to see because of our awesome waiting periods and our hospital is already running over 100% capacity. It's a pain in the backside trying to get much done here.
Posted by viper1431 on September 29, 2009, at 10:04:27
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on September 28, 2009, at 11:31:23
> What about Lyrica. Have you tried that?
Nah i havn't, it's restricted here to
"For the treatment of refractory neuropathic pain not controlled by other drugs." and requires a special script. Even if i could get a script it is way too expensive for me at over $100.i did ask about gabapentin once which i think is similar and cheaper although my pdoc said he would have to ask some opinions on it as he's only heard of it being used for neuropathic pain.
Posted by viper1431 on September 29, 2009, at 10:11:51
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness, posted by polarbear206 on September 28, 2009, at 11:35:53
> I'm wondering if you might benefit from an add on such as Lamictal to augment you AD. What were your symptoms like prior to going on meds? Age, sleep patterns, energy patterns, what degree of anxiety did you experience. Free floating, situational, etc.
>Um 28 (been treated since about 18)depressed, severe suicidal idealation, no motivation,
Oversleep, over eating, always tired in the day but awake at night no matter how much i've tried to change it around. Anxiety is only when around people. And quite a few symptons similar to borderline personality which my pdoc agrees there may be a degree of involved.havn't tried Lamictal but it appears to be an authority script for epilepsy only.
havn't tried augmenting with lithium yet, i'm worried about it making me even more fatigued or just "out of it"
Augmenting with t3 seems to be out of the question unless i see someone interstate which i can't afford to do.
Posted by Sigismund on September 29, 2009, at 15:01:06
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness » bleauberry, posted by viper1431 on September 28, 2009, at 22:06:22
>our hospital is already running over 100% capacity
They run out of morphine and bandages. I hope you don't live in Dubbo.
Here is one place
http://www.nutritionmedicine.org/
The other thing is to find a doctor who is accredited with the Australian College of Natural and Environmental Medicine
http://www.acnem.org/modules/mastop_publish/I think you can find out from them doctors who work in your area.
Posted by Sigismund on September 29, 2009, at 15:06:19
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness » polarbear206, posted by viper1431 on September 29, 2009, at 10:11:51
Those alternative doctors are often very expensive.
>Um 28 (been treated since about 18)depressed, severe suicidal idealation, no motivation,
Oversleep, over eating, always tired in the day but awake at night no matter how much i've tried to change it around. Anxiety is only when around people. And quite a few symptons similar to borderline personality which my pdoc agrees there may be a degree of involved.Is this atypical depression?
Posted by viper1431 on September 29, 2009, at 17:50:17
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness, posted by Sigismund on September 29, 2009, at 15:06:19
> Those alternative doctors are often very expensive.
>
> >Um 28 (been treated since about 18)depressed, severe suicidal idealation, no motivation,
> Oversleep, over eating, always tired in the day but awake at night no matter how much i've tried to change it around. Anxiety is only when around people. And quite a few symptons similar to borderline personality which my pdoc agrees there may be a degree of involved.
>
> Is this atypical depression?Well i think it is, which is why i've made so many attempts at getting nardil to work.
Doc doesn't want me trying again because i've taken way to many hard hits to the head while fainting on it.
Posted by bleauberry on September 29, 2009, at 18:07:45
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness » bleauberry, posted by viper1431 on September 28, 2009, at 22:06:22
It's a shame nationalized health care puts such a limit on treatment options and availability. It sucks. It's the opposite of what they promise you.
I mean, here in USA if you don't want to see a doctor, can't see one, the wait is too long, or whatever, you can order your own lab tests right via web. The labs deliver the supplies in the mail, you mail back the samples, and you get the results. No doctor, nothing. You could get the Adrenal Stress Index test easy.
Posted by metafunj on September 29, 2009, at 20:18:24
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness, posted by bleauberry on September 29, 2009, at 18:07:45
have you tried prozac?
I recently tried lexapro and felt very tired when i first got up but then it faded. This was on a low dose of 5mgs
Posted by viper1431 on September 29, 2009, at 22:07:55
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness, posted by metafunj on September 29, 2009, at 20:18:24
> have you tried prozac?
>
> I recently tried lexapro and felt very tired when i first got up but then it faded. This was on a low dose of 5mgsYeah i tried prozac at the start of the year, it made me feel like going on a violent rampage all the time. I tried it fro the lowest dose all the way up to 80mg but with no luck. it just keep making me feel unusually angry instead of lifting the depression.
Posted by metafunj on September 29, 2009, at 22:42:14
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness » metafunj, posted by viper1431 on September 29, 2009, at 22:07:55
hmm sounds like the dopamine/norepinephrine boost it gives doesn't help you.
Have you tried just taking tryptophan or 5 HTP?
Also lexapro, celexa, or Luvox might not be quite as strong as zoloft. They don't seem to increase serotonin quite as much as zoloft does.
Posted by viper1431 on September 29, 2009, at 23:19:27
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness » viper1431, posted by metafunj on September 29, 2009, at 22:42:14
> hmm sounds like the dopamine/norepinephrine boost it gives doesn't help you.
>
> Have you tried just taking tryptophan or 5 HTP?
>
> Also lexapro, celexa, or Luvox might not be quite as strong as zoloft. They don't seem to increase serotonin quite as much as zoloft does.celexa and lexapro were ok but gave me really bad fatigue as well, actually worse than the zoloft is doing at the moment but im only on 25mg of zoloft so far. Luvox was worse again and gave me 24/7 nausea for 6 months.
Posted by Phillipa on September 30, 2009, at 19:20:52
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness » metafunj, posted by viper1431 on September 29, 2009, at 23:19:27
Luvox is the only ad I've never had a single side effect from. And was on 250mg at one time with benzos felt great. Still taking low dose luvox 50mg as don't think they the SSRI's work for me. I've taken 50mg of zoloft nothing either. Thinking that I may not be depressed just the Gad as pdoc says. Phillipa
Posted by manic666 on October 1, 2009, at 3:11:05
In reply to Re: SSRI's and body weakness » viper1431, posted by Phillipa on September 30, 2009, at 19:20:52
philipa you wont feel nothing on 50mg zoloft thats the start dose. remember i take 150mg an the p doc says that is avarage to low. you get nothing from 50mg. ok a little sleepy in the first 2 days then nothing ,a week later 100, try that if not good a week later 150mg an so on,
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