![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Monica L on September 20, 2009, at 18:27:08
Well, I wrote a couple of weeks ago about my trip to the Dr. and wanted some advice. I only saw a regular Dr. so we didn't make any major changes to my pysch meds. (I will be seeing my pysch Dr on the 1st of Oct) The only thing we did was change my Paxil to name brand. It did make a difference, but I feel it slowly wearing off. Why does this always happen to me? I've tried EVERYTHING out there. I've suffered from depression since I was a child, I'm now a 28 yr old stay at home mom who needs to snap out of it.
So MAOIs are my next step. I guess one of questions, is it likely to wear off just like the others? How long is a wash out off Paxil? ANY advice would help....thanks
Posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2009, at 18:44:37
In reply to Running out of options, posted by Monica L on September 20, 2009, at 18:27:08
Two week washout. Works for some and not others. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2009, at 20:28:06
In reply to Running out of options, posted by Monica L on September 20, 2009, at 18:27:08
> Well, I wrote a couple of weeks ago about my trip to the Dr. and wanted some advice. I only saw a regular Dr. so we didn't make any major changes to my pysch meds. (I will be seeing my pysch Dr on the 1st of Oct) The only thing we did was change my Paxil to name brand. It did make a difference, but I feel it slowly wearing off. Why does this always happen to me? I've tried EVERYTHING out there. I've suffered from depression since I was a child, I'm now a 28 yr old stay at home mom who needs to snap out of it.
>
> So MAOIs are my next step. I guess one of questions, is it likely to wear off just like the others? How long is a wash out off Paxil? ANY advice would help....thanksML,
You wrote,[...MAOIs are next..I need to snap out of it...ANY advice would help...]
What if you went on a different road than the road seeking another chemical to put into your system? Could you consider taking a road that has no chemicals to put into your system?
Lou
Posted by kirbyw on September 20, 2009, at 20:30:11
In reply to Re: Running out of options » Monica L, posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2009, at 18:44:37
I was in a really bad endogenous depression in 1982, and I had tried everything that was available then, short of ECT. I was hospitalized and I was totally dysfunctional. My depression was physically painful and I couldn't even stand being conscious. I was sleeping 18-20 hours a week. I had been in a Psych. hospital for 3 weeks and they tried everything from psychoanalytic group therapy to a "Sodium Pentathol" interview. They also added Mellaril to my tri-cyclate med, even though I was not psychotic. And the Mellaril just made me sleep more. Then my cousin, who was a mental health professional, found out about the depression research unit of Rush Pres St. Lukes hospital in Chicago, I was transferred there, although I personally had no hope at all. The Doctor immediately put me on Parnate. He raised the dose by 10 mg per day until I was on 90 mg.
After about the 5th day I began to notice that I could experience feelings, and have some waking moments that were not physically painful. It was like a miracle to me. This is a very powerful drug. I continued to do well on Parnate and I was discharged from Pres. St Lukes's hospital in less than a month, able to go back to work, and resume my life. So don't underestimate Parnate.
Its a good drug.
Rick in Costa Rica, posting as kirbyw because of a password problem.
Posted by Monica L on September 20, 2009, at 21:02:43
In reply to Lou's response-tewrowds » Monica L, posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2009, at 20:28:06
> > Well, I wrote a couple of weeks ago about my trip to the Dr. and wanted some advice. I only saw a regular Dr. so we didn't make any major changes to my pysch meds. (I will be seeing my pysch Dr on the 1st of Oct) The only thing we did was change my Paxil to name brand. It did make a difference, but I feel it slowly wearing off. Why does this always happen to me? I've tried EVERYTHING out there. I've suffered from depression since I was a child, I'm now a 28 yr old stay at home mom who needs to snap out of it.
> >
> > So MAOIs are my next step. I guess one of questions, is it likely to wear off just like the others? How long is a wash out off Paxil? ANY advice would help....thanks
>
> ML,
> You wrote,[...MAOIs are next..I need to snap out of it...ANY advice would help...]
> What if you went on a different road than the road seeking another chemical to put into your system? Could you consider taking a road that has no chemicals to put into your system?
> LouBefore I put chemicals in my system, I thought life would always be a struggle, I thought I was just a sad person. Then I was introduced to my first chemical four years ago and I experienced joy, emotions and took an active part in my life. Depression and anxiety are something that I've dealt with since I was a child. Its in my family. I'm tired of standing on the sidelines and watching everyone participate in life with a drive and purpose. I know what I'm capable of. When these chemicals worked with my own chemicals, I was that person. Have u ever been depressed? If so, and if you dont use chemicals, what do you do to help your depression. If you even are depressed?
Posted by Monica L on September 20, 2009, at 21:10:21
In reply to Re: Running out of options, posted by kirbyw on September 20, 2009, at 20:30:11
Did you go through a washout before starting the Parnate? I'm really worried about going through a washout and coming off Paxil. Though I would be willing to go through it if I had no choice.
Posted by kirbyw on September 20, 2009, at 23:04:32
In reply to Re: Running out of options, posted by Monica L on September 20, 2009, at 21:10:21
> Did you go through a washout before starting the Parnate? I'm really worried about going through a washout and coming off Paxil. Though I would be willing to go through it if I had no choice.
In my case, I was switching from a tricyclate to an MAO, so apparently the danger of serotonin sydrome was much less. Also, I was in the hospital at the time and they could monitor all my vitals, etc 24/7. As I recall, I started the Parnate the day after I was admitted which means that I may have missed just one dose of the tricyclate.
I am afraid the situation is different with Paxil which is an SSRI-- and because you are (thankfully) not hospitalized. You should follow your physician's advice on this issue.
Rick
Posted by bleauberry on September 21, 2009, at 4:36:27
In reply to Running out of options, posted by Monica L on September 20, 2009, at 18:27:08
If you don't have an Integrative MD then you have not come anywhere close to trying everything that can improve or cure depression. You don't know if you have heavy metals, Lyme, candida, adrenal dysfunction, pituitary dysfunction, a number of other parasitic organisms that invade the brain, or what. All you know is that increasing serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine has been a deadend road, which should tell you the depression is more complicated than that.
I was at a St Johns Wort forum the other day and guy was just so excited because he had been on every SSRI/SNRI there is, but now on SJW he finally feels great. I am not saying go take SJW. I am saying, outside of psychiatry, this stuff happens. It really happens. There is a bigger world of options than the psychiatrist office. Similar stories with things like Rhodiola, 5htp, Doxycycline, DMSA, Siberian Ginseng, and and on. When psych drugs fail, there is something else, someimes a lot better.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2009, at 8:00:05
In reply to Re: Lou's response-tewrowds, posted by Monica L on September 20, 2009, at 21:02:43
> > > Well, I wrote a couple of weeks ago about my trip to the Dr. and wanted some advice. I only saw a regular Dr. so we didn't make any major changes to my pysch meds. (I will be seeing my pysch Dr on the 1st of Oct) The only thing we did was change my Paxil to name brand. It did make a difference, but I feel it slowly wearing off. Why does this always happen to me? I've tried EVERYTHING out there. I've suffered from depression since I was a child, I'm now a 28 yr old stay at home mom who needs to snap out of it.
> > >
> > > So MAOIs are my next step. I guess one of questions, is it likely to wear off just like the others? How long is a wash out off Paxil? ANY advice would help....thanks
> >
> > ML,
> > You wrote,[...MAOIs are next..I need to snap out of it...ANY advice would help...]
> > What if you went on a different road than the road seeking another chemical to put into your system? Could you consider taking a road that has no chemicals to put into your system?
> > Lou
>
> Before I put chemicals in my system, I thought life would always be a struggle, I thought I was just a sad person. Then I was introduced to my first chemical four years ago and I experienced joy, emotions and took an active part in my life. Depression and anxiety are something that I've dealt with since I was a child. Its in my family. I'm tired of standing on the sidelines and watching everyone participate in life with a drive and purpose. I know what I'm capable of. When these chemicals worked with my own chemicals, I was that person. Have u ever been depressed? If so, and if you dont use chemicals, what do you do to help your depression. If you even are depressed?
>
> ML,
You wrote,[...in my family...when the chemicals worked...what do you do...?]
There is an important phenomenem called the placebo effect that is something that I would like for you to look up on your own if you are not aware of the updated research concerning such. We could use this in any discussion here. There is also research concerning hereditary aspects of depression that I also would like for you to look up if you are not up to date on the research for such.
Now as to depression, I have a view that could be different from many psychiatrists concerning such. I have depression in relation to BP type which could be in some ways different from the unipolar type. I consider depression a gift, but to explain that could have me need a great amount of space and time here.
Depression in my perspective is death. I see this death having an origin and a way to escape from it. I do experiance depression and I am very vulnerable to having it overtake me and I walk on a very narrow road and do fall by the wayside into the depths of depression, and one could be pushed. But I think that there is a way to overcome this death, and climb up to the road again. This way is in understanding what in one's thinking has the potential to induce depression and what in one's thinking can overcome depression.
This involves the concepts of Judaism as revealed to me. One concept involves the mind. It has been revealed to me that there are two minds, one leading to death, the other leading to life and peace. Which mind that one uses then as it has been revealed to me, could then determine the state of either being in depression (death) or life and peace.
This could mean for one to start over in life with hearing a new song.
Lou
Posted by alchemy on September 21, 2009, at 19:55:18
In reply to Running out of options, posted by Monica L on September 20, 2009, at 18:27:08
Hi Monica. I am sorry for your pain. I don't know about you, but I am offended by the previous message. I will just keep it at that.
I haven't had the effects of a med losing its effectiveness, but I know that happens to a lot of people. I haven't heard anything different about MAOIs. But guess at least you have another option of drugs to try I guess :)
My dr. only had me off of Zoloft for 5 days before starting the Emsam patch. I think they normally like you to be off a little longer.
Posted by Monica L on September 21, 2009, at 20:06:41
In reply to Re: Running out of options, posted by alchemy on September 21, 2009, at 19:55:18
Thanks for noticing..I thought the same thing...I get to see my psych Dr on friday so it's soon. It's just hard cause it will be my first appt with him. I'm new to this area so I need to be sure and provide him with as much info as possible. It's hard when you're a military family and you move around every two years. So how do you like emsam? I didn't pay too much attention to the last post, it did surprise me though...oh well, I'm just trying to focus on getting better..Thank u again for replying
Posted by alchemy on September 23, 2009, at 20:11:04
In reply to Re: Running out of options, posted by Monica L on September 21, 2009, at 20:06:41
Hi Monica. I didn't stay with Emsam, but it might work for you. It is the only MOAI I've tried. I just started my 1st tricylic a few weeks ago, still hoping for some improvement. I went through a phase with my current psych dr where he didn't know what to do anymore because I had tried almost everything and had a lot of paradoxical reactions. (I cried) But he has some more ideas lately. It does get discouraging.
So if you go off of a drug because it has lost its effectiveness, and you try it again later, does it even work again? (If you have tried). Maybe you can do a rotation schedule. jk.
What is your experience with mood stabilizers?
If you don't already, I would write down what meds & combos you have been on, etc. That does suck that you can't stay with a dr.
Posted by annabamma on September 24, 2009, at 13:33:21
In reply to Running out of options, posted by Monica L on September 20, 2009, at 18:27:08
Monica- I hope you are feeling a bit more positive after reading some of these posts. There's a lot of very caring people on this site.I just finished a 2 month trial of Emsam patch.It seemed to be helping my atypical depression, but I had to stop because of the horrible rashes it gave me on application sites. I have tried SO MANY drugs and sometimes felt pretty hopeless.I can totally relate to standing on the sidelines of life! And, being a mom, you want to be "be there" mentally for your kids! So now I'm trying the oral form of emsam-selegine (sp) Good luck!
Posted by Monica L on September 24, 2009, at 18:12:15
In reply to Re: Running out of options, posted by annabamma on September 24, 2009, at 13:33:21
> Monica- I hope you are feeling a bit more positive after reading some of these posts. There's a lot of very caring people on this site.I just finished a 2 month trial of Emsam patch.It seemed to be helping my atypical depression, but I had to stop because of the horrible rashes it gave me on application sites. I have tried SO MANY drugs and sometimes felt pretty hopeless.I can totally relate to standing on the sidelines of life! And, being a mom, you want to be "be there" mentally for your kids! So now I'm trying the oral form of emsam-selegine (sp) Good luck!
Thank you so much for the support!!
I've been reading a lot about atypical depression and I think I can narrow it down pretty close. Of course I will let a Dr. or therapist make that decision. I've always dealt with depression, just never knew what kind.
Posted by merry-dove on September 25, 2009, at 11:18:07
In reply to Re: Running out of options, posted by Monica L on September 24, 2009, at 18:12:15
>
> I've been reading a lot about atypical >depression and I think I can narrow it down >pretty close. Of course I will let a Dr. or >therapist make that decision. I've always dealt >with depression, just never knew what kind.Monica, I have struggled with atypical depression since I was a teenager. I also developed an extreme anxiety disorder and social phobia in my twenties. I'm 53 now and still fighting it. Many times I have thought about giving up but I couldn't do that to my husband, mom, sister and grown son.
All antidepressants eventually "poop out" in my experience. So you try another and if it doesn't work at all you try another. Or if it works a little you work on the dosage or the time of day you take it. Or you augment with something. You just keep trying because your family needs you.
Two months ago I switched from Cymbalta - an SNRI (pooped out after 2 1/2 years) to Pristiq, also an SNRI. Before switching I had been at an ALL TIME LOW with NO energy and NO desire to to ANYTHING. I was crying all the time, had EXTREME fatigue, rarely left the house except to go to work part-time and I didn't know how I was going to keep working. I started Pristiq and it helped "some". Not nearly enough. I was still in a very bad place. I saw a commercial on TV for Abilify. My Dr. gave me some 2mg samples and I started taking it 1 1/2 weeks ago. All I can say is that it has been a MIRACLE DRUG for me! I have energy, the desire to go places, talk to people, basically LIVE rather than exist!
I was at the point you were at, thinking about trying an MAOI. But I was afraid to go through the wash-out period between stopping the SNRI. Also, I was afraid of the side effect of weight gain. (I lost 30 lbs this past year on Nutrisystem.)
I spent HOUR upon HOUR researching drugs, reviewing the side effects, reading other people's experiences on various web sites. Then I was just too tired to do it any more. I saw the commercial for Abilify and decided to try it even though I didn't have much hope it would work.
I am VERY happy right now- I hope it continues to help me!
Maybe this could be the medicine you need to augment your antidepressant.
BTW, I was on Paxil for a couple of years and it made me a zombie. I didn't care about anything and slept all the time. Have you tried Prozac, Zoloft or Cymbalta? These all helped me - Prozac was the very first antidepressant I took in my twenties and it changed my life at that time. Zoloft lasted a fairly long time. I did have to augment the Zoloft with Wellbutrin, however. Also, I have almost always taken Ritalin along with the antidepressants for fatigue. After many years though, the Ritalin started to only give me an hour of feeling "ok". Then the crash. I stopped the Ritalin and started 72mg of Concerta 3 months ago but the extreme fatigue persisted. I also started taking klonopin for anxiety and social phobia about 3 years ago. I was taking Cymbalta then. At the time it helped TREMENDOUSLY. But the effects are not the same any more. It still helps some.
If it helps, this is what I take right now:
Pristiq - 100mg 1 x day - AM
Concerta - 72mg 1 X day - AM
Klonopin - .25 mg. 3 x day and .5mg at bedtime
Vicodin - 1/2 pill 3-4 X day (5mg/500mg tabs)
Abilify (the miracle drug) 2mg 1 x day - AMDon't give up searching. Everyone on this board knows the only person who can really help you is yourself. The doctors certainly don't care enough in my experience.
Good luck and God Bless!
Terry
P.S. I believe with all my heart that God led me to this medicine. He's always helped me in the past when I've reached a bottom point.
Posted by annabamma on September 25, 2009, at 14:31:24
In reply to Re: Running out of options » Monica L, posted by merry-dove on September 25, 2009, at 11:18:07
> >
> > I've been reading a lot about atypical >depression and I think I can narrow it down >pretty close. Of course I will let a Dr. or >therapist make that decision. I've always dealt >with depression, just never knew what kind.
>
> Monica, I have struggled with atypical depression since I was a teenager. I also developed an extreme anxiety disorder and social phobia in my twenties. I'm 53 now and still fighting it. Many times I have thought about giving up but I couldn't do that to my husband, mom, sister and grown son.
>
> All antidepressants eventually "poop out" in my experience. So you try another and if it doesn't work at all you try another. Or if it works a little you work on the dosage or the time of day you take it. Or you augment with something. You just keep trying because your family needs you.
>
> Two months ago I switched from Cymbalta - an SNRI (pooped out after 2 1/2 years) to Pristiq, also an SNRI. Before switching I had been at an ALL TIME LOW with NO energy and NO desire to to ANYTHING. I was crying all the time, had EXTREME fatigue, rarely left the house except to go to work part-time and I didn't know how I was going to keep working. I started Pristiq and it helped "some". Not nearly enough. I was still in a very bad place. I saw a commercial on TV for Abilify. My Dr. gave me some 2mg samples and I started taking it 1 1/2 weeks ago. All I can say is that it has been a MIRACLE DRUG for me! I have energy, the desire to go places, talk to people, basically LIVE rather than exist!
>
> I was at the point you were at, thinking about trying an MAOI. But I was afraid to go through the wash-out period between stopping the SNRI. Also, I was afraid of the side effect of weight gain. (I lost 30 lbs this past year on Nutrisystem.)
>
> I spent HOUR upon HOUR researching drugs, reviewing the side effects, reading other people's experiences on various web sites. Then I was just too tired to do it any more. I saw the commercial for Abilify and decided to try it even though I didn't have much hope it would work.
>
> I am VERY happy right now- I hope it continues to help me!
>
> Maybe this could be the medicine you need to augment your antidepressant.
>
> BTW, I was on Paxil for a couple of years and it made me a zombie. I didn't care about anything and slept all the time. Have you tried Prozac, Zoloft or Cymbalta? These all helped me - Prozac was the very first antidepressant I took in my twenties and it changed my life at that time. Zoloft lasted a fairly long time. I did have to augment the Zoloft with Wellbutrin, however. Also, I have almost always taken Ritalin along with the antidepressants for fatigue. After many years though, the Ritalin started to only give me an hour of feeling "ok". Then the crash. I stopped the Ritalin and started 72mg of Concerta 3 months ago but the extreme fatigue persisted. I also started taking klonopin for anxiety and social phobia about 3 years ago. I was taking Cymbalta then. At the time it helped TREMENDOUSLY. But the effects are not the same any more. It still helps some.
>
> If it helps, this is what I take right now:
>
> Pristiq - 100mg 1 x day - AM
> Concerta - 72mg 1 X day - AM
> Klonopin - .25 mg. 3 x day and .5mg at bedtime
> Vicodin - 1/2 pill 3-4 X day (5mg/500mg tabs)
> Abilify (the miracle drug) 2mg 1 x day - AM
>
> Don't give up searching. Everyone on this board knows the only person who can really help you is yourself. The doctors certainly don't care enough in my experience.
>
> Good luck and God Bless!
>
> Terry
>
> P.S. I believe with all my heart that God led me to this medicine. He's always helped me in the past when I've reached a bottom point.Do you think just Abilify would help? I have the EXACT same problem with NO energy or motivation to do ANYTHING, but I can't take any thing too activating or my heart gets too nervous and my wimpy CNS gets all upset..
Posted by merry-dove on September 26, 2009, at 9:30:32
In reply to Re: Running out of options, posted by annabamma on September 25, 2009, at 14:31:24
> > >
> > > I've been reading a lot about atypical >depression and I think I can narrow it down >pretty close. Of course I will let a Dr. or >therapist make that decision. I've always dealt >with depression, just never knew what kind.
> >
> > Monica, I have struggled with atypical depression since I was a teenager. I also developed an extreme anxiety disorder and social phobia in my twenties. I'm 53 now and still fighting it. Many times I have thought about giving up but I couldn't do that to my husband, mom, sister and grown son.
> >
> > All antidepressants eventually "poop out" in my experience. So you try another and if it doesn't work at all you try another. Or if it works a little you work on the dosage or the time of day you take it. Or you augment with something. You just keep trying because your family needs you.
> >
> > Two months ago I switched from Cymbalta - an SNRI (pooped out after 2 1/2 years) to Pristiq, also an SNRI. Before switching I had been at an ALL TIME LOW with NO energy and NO desire to to ANYTHING. I was crying all the time, had EXTREME fatigue, rarely left the house except to go to work part-time and I didn't know how I was going to keep working. I started Pristiq and it helped "some". Not nearly enough. I was still in a very bad place. I saw a commercial on TV for Abilify. My Dr. gave me some 2mg samples and I started taking it 1 1/2 weeks ago. All I can say is that it has been a MIRACLE DRUG for me! I have energy, the desire to go places, talk to people, basically LIVE rather than exist!
> >
> > I was at the point you were at, thinking about trying an MAOI. But I was afraid to go through the wash-out period between stopping the SNRI. Also, I was afraid of the side effect of weight gain. (I lost 30 lbs this past year on Nutrisystem.)
> >
> > I spent HOUR upon HOUR researching drugs, reviewing the side effects, reading other people's experiences on various web sites. Then I was just too tired to do it any more. I saw the commercial for Abilify and decided to try it even though I didn't have much hope it would work.
> >
> > I am VERY happy right now- I hope it continues to help me!
> >
> > Maybe this could be the medicine you need to augment your antidepressant.
> >
> > BTW, I was on Paxil for a couple of years and it made me a zombie. I didn't care about anything and slept all the time. Have you tried Prozac, Zoloft or Cymbalta? These all helped me - Prozac was the very first antidepressant I took in my twenties and it changed my life at that time. Zoloft lasted a fairly long time. I did have to augment the Zoloft with Wellbutrin, however. Also, I have almost always taken Ritalin along with the antidepressants for fatigue. After many years though, the Ritalin started to only give me an hour of feeling "ok". Then the crash. I stopped the Ritalin and started 72mg of Concerta 3 months ago but the extreme fatigue persisted. I also started taking klonopin for anxiety and social phobia about 3 years ago. I was taking Cymbalta then. At the time it helped TREMENDOUSLY. But the effects are not the same any more. It still helps some.
> >
> > If it helps, this is what I take right now:
> >
> > Pristiq - 100mg 1 x day - AM
> > Concerta - 72mg 1 X day - AM
> > Klonopin - .25 mg. 3 x day and .5mg at bedtime
> > Vicodin - 1/2 pill 3-4 X day (5mg/500mg tabs)
> > Abilify (the miracle drug) 2mg 1 x day - AM
> >
> > Don't give up searching. Everyone on this board knows the only person who can really help you is yourself. The doctors certainly don't care enough in my experience.
> >
> > Good luck and God Bless!
> >
> > Terry
> >
> > P.S. I believe with all my heart that God led me to this medicine. He's always helped me in the past when I've reached a bottom point.
>
> Do you think just Abilify would help? I have the EXACT same problem with NO energy or motivation to do ANYTHING, but I can't take any thing too activating or my heart gets too nervous and my wimpy CNS gets all upset..AnnaBama.
Abilfy IS activating. BUT...I do not feel nervous or anxious at all. My heart doesn't beat fast or anything like that. I do have a lot of thoughts running through my mind but I'm not manic. To me it's a wonderful thing. There's so many things I want to do now. I have to make a list to keep up with everything I'm thinking of that I want to do, like organizing closets, making lunch dates with friends, selling stuff on Ebay, and just everything I had wished I had the energy and motivation to do for the last 2 years!LOW-DOSE Abilify is the key. 2mg seems to be the exact amount for me. Much more, from what I've read, can have the opposite effect and cause fatigue. I've heard some people are taking 2.5 mg. but the Dr. gave me samples that were 2mg. Maybe your Dr. will give you some samples.
I really hope it helps you. I KNOW how you feel.
Good luck and God bless.
Terry
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 27, 2009, at 2:41:59
In reply to Lou's reply-crnlvspirt » Monica L, posted by Lou Pilder on September 21, 2009, at 8:00:05
> This involves the concepts of Judaism as revealed to me.
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding Judaism to Psycho-Babble Faith. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20080809/msgs/918667.html
That'll be considered a new thread, so if you'd like to be notified by email of follow-ups to it, you'll need to request that there.
It's fine to keep posting about medication-related issues here.
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.