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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 47. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2009, at 13:05:56
Was doing some googling came to a site on neuroleptics. Led me to find that Peter Breggin and have heard that name before wrote this horific article who is this man? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2009, at 13:09:33
In reply to Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2009, at 13:05:56
Found this. Phillipa so is he a good or bad guy?
Posted by yxibow on September 20, 2009, at 22:49:54
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2009, at 13:09:33
> Found this. Phillipa so is he a good or bad guy?
>
>
> http://www.breggin.com/prbbio.htmlWell, Jan if I really say what he is on here I will get a PBC.
But in my -personal- opinion he is a quack and has done damage to the general view of medicine, and is very anti-psychiatry.
And groups such as Sc****ology will then in turn use such types of illogical explanations. Anyhow.
There are those with alternate medicine/complementary/etc who will say that his views on Prozac or whatever are warranted.
That's all I can say, and you won't see me quoting him at all.
-- tidings
Posted by Fred23 on September 21, 2009, at 12:38:36
In reply to Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2009, at 13:05:56
I've read some of his books, and the most useful point he makes, that is in line with my personal theories, is to watch out the meds you are taking have such an effect that your real personality is affected in a bad way, due to the meds, to the point that you are unaware of what is happening.
Posted by Phillipa on September 21, 2009, at 19:51:05
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin? » Phillipa, posted by Fred23 on September 21, 2009, at 12:38:36
Thanks guys sort of formed same conclusion myself. I know others have posted of him here. Love Phillipa
Posted by 49er on September 22, 2009, at 5:21:40
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin? » Phillipa, posted by Fred23 on September 21, 2009, at 12:38:36
> I've read some of his books, and the most useful point he makes, that is in line with my personal theories, is to watch out the meds you are taking have such an effect that your real personality is affected in a bad way, due to the meds, to the point that you are unaware of what is happening.
>
Fred,That was exactly my experiences. They call that being spellbound by meds.
A relative tried to warn me when she was alive. Sadly, I blew her off only to find she was right. I thought she was clueless about mental health issues.
It took a hearing loss caused by Remeron to see the light.
Personally, I used to think Breggin was a real quack. But now, I think he is right on target.
I still think his views on autism are wacky but heck, one isn't going to agree with someone 100%.
49er
Posted by metafunj on September 22, 2009, at 8:27:05
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin? » Fred23, posted by 49er on September 22, 2009, at 5:21:40
Remeron caused you hearing loss? How do you know it was that and not something else.
Sorry for being off topic.
I wish I had read his book when I was a teenager before I was forced onto meds. I would have just pretended to take them. The depression of teenager years would have probably passed.
Posted by 49er on September 22, 2009, at 16:24:35
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by metafunj on September 22, 2009, at 8:27:05
> Remeron caused you hearing loss? How do you know it was that and not something else.
>
> Sorry for being off topic.
>
> I wish I had read his book when I was a teenager before I was forced onto meds. I would have just pretended to take them. The depression of teenager years would have probably passed.Hi,
No apologies necessary.
I was diagnosed with a hearing loss after I started taking Remeron. But I blew off the diagnosis as due to central auditory processing disorder for various reasons. That is commonly misdiagnosed as a hearing loss.
Just so people know, I don't regret what happened because even if I had taken the hearing loss seriously, I probably never would have connected it to the Remeron.
Years later, I got my hearing tested and again was diagnosed with a hearing loss. This time, I immediately thought of the Remeron as the culprit. I can't really explain why I saw the light but even before realizing hearing loss was a side effect, I just knew.
There was no other explanation although 2 ENTs tried to claim it was due to meneires. But that seems to be the boiler plate diagnosis for anyone who gets a hearing loss due to meds. People on pharmalot reported this happened for an antibiotic that was known to cause hearing loss.
Another reason it was wrong was I didn't have vertigo which is common with Meneires and the tinnitus that they claimed was due to the condition was actually the result of Wellbutrin. Of course, I was blown off as the doctors wanted to fit the diagnosis to their theories.
Finally, when I was reducing the Remeron, which I no longer am on, I made a mistake in dosage and took too much. My hearing worsened.
Anyway, now that I am off the Remeron, I do feel my hearing has improved although it definitely is not normal and I don't think it will ever be.
I am sorry you were forced onto meds. I don't think professionals have any clue as to what that does to your development as a teenager. But I guess I am preaching to the choir on this one.
Anyway, I think medical professionals are clueless in general about ototoxicity. My former dentist denied that a form of Novacaine (sorry I forgot which one) was ototoxic even though tinnitus was listed as a side effect.
I admit it isn't common but I don't think it is as rare as they would claim it to be.
49er
Posted by Phillipa on September 22, 2009, at 20:19:17
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin? » metafunj, posted by 49er on September 22, 2009, at 16:24:35
Any idea why six years ago lost all taste and smell? It's horrible. Benzos, luvox, synthroid, biaxin xl for chronic lymes for two years had just stopped it and had eye lasix surgery and it just drifted away? Please if any ideas will you let me know as quality of life is horrendous used to love good tastes and smells. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on September 22, 2009, at 20:19:31
In reply to Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2009, at 13:05:56
Well, you know how some people are just so gung-ho pro meds, like meds are the greatest things to mankind, like it is the only way to fix a body, and there is no other way?
That is an extreme. An extreme unfortunately that is seen here most often.
However, all things balance out and average out. On the opposite extreme is Peter Breggin. Psych meds are only poison in his view. That's extreme.
I believe in what we don't see very often...a middle ground between those two extremes, where we incorporate the best of both worlds and take heed of the cautions of both worlds and treat the entire body from every angle possible.
Psychiatrists are extreme. Peter Breggin is extreme. They are opposite poles of extreme. Neither is completely right or wrong.
Just the way I see it.
Posted by 49er on September 22, 2009, at 20:59:37
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin? » 49er, posted by Phillipa on September 22, 2009, at 20:19:17
> Any idea why six years ago lost all taste and smell? It's horrible. Benzos, luvox, synthroid, biaxin xl for chronic lymes for two years had just stopped it and had eye lasix surgery and it just drifted away? Please if any ideas will you let me know as quality of life is horrendous used to love good tastes and smells. Thanks Phillipa
Philipa,
I know I have lost my sense of taste on psych meds. How much, I can't say for sure. I never was able to smell so I can't blame that on the meds.
No, I have no idea why. I wish I did.
I am so sorry about your situation.
Posted by Phillipa on September 22, 2009, at 21:51:57
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by 49er on September 22, 2009, at 20:59:37
Really? I wonder how many others this has happened to think it deserves a separate thread 49er? Phillipa
Posted by sowhysosad on September 23, 2009, at 4:10:49
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by bleauberry on September 22, 2009, at 20:19:31
> I believe in what we don't see very often...a middle ground between those two extremes, where we incorporate the best of both worlds and take heed of the cautions of both worlds and treat the entire body from every angle possible.
Wise words.
> Psychiatrists are extreme. Peter Breggin is extreme. They are opposite poles of extreme. Neither is completely right or wrong.
Would you agree that there are hidden agendas behind each of those extreme viewpoints, largely motivated by money?
Posted by NKP on September 23, 2009, at 4:45:22
In reply to Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2009, at 13:05:56
Some are anti-psychiatry because of the barbaric and pseudo-scientific history of psychiatry.
Not for the sensitive, here is an advertisement for lobotomy in the American Journal of Psychiatry:
and a picture of a lobotomized patient:
http://www.paddedcell.com.au/psychosurgery.php
At the time, lobotomy was seen as a sound treatment for mental illness. I wonder how society might look back at the state of psychiatry today, fifty years from now.
Posted by SLS on September 23, 2009, at 5:26:29
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by bleauberry on September 22, 2009, at 20:19:31
> On the opposite extreme is Peter Breggin. Psych meds are only poison in his view. That's extreme.
What does he propose as treatments for mental illnesses?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 23, 2009, at 5:44:05
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by NKP on September 23, 2009, at 4:45:22
> Some are anti-psychiatry because of the barbaric and pseudo-scientific history of psychiatry.
Yes. This is unfortunate.
> I wonder how society might look back at the state of psychiatry today, fifty years from now.
I think they will smile at how useful our drugs were despite ourselves, and how little we understood of the brain and how these drugs affect it. They will also be sad at how blunt our tools were, with drugs that have troublesome and sometimes dangerous side effects.
As I have read medical journals beginning from the 1970s to date, it is my impression that the study of mental illnesses has become more scientific in its concept and methodology. We also have many more tools to use for investigational and treatment purposes. I don't think we are in the Dark Ages of psychiatry any more. I think our neuroscientists are working as fast and as diligently as they can to produce data and find understanding that will eventually benefit the clinician and his patients.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on September 23, 2009, at 20:26:19
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by SLS on September 23, 2009, at 5:44:05
That lobotomy stuff is very scarey? Kids for misbehavor. Makes me sick. Phillipa
Posted by metafunj on September 23, 2009, at 21:21:06
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin? » metafunj, posted by 49er on September 22, 2009, at 16:24:35
Thank you for your response. Thats pretty scary. Sometimes it feels like we're playing Russian Pill Roulette with our brains and bodies. I was thinking of trying Remeron but now im not so sure. I have a friend who was greatly helped by it, so now I'm confused.
I am taking Wellbutrin and have tinnitus. I hope it lessens or in the case that the med doesn't work, I hope it goes away when I discontinue.
Posted by yxibow on September 23, 2009, at 22:12:43
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by SLS on September 23, 2009, at 5:44:05
> > Some are anti-psychiatry because of the barbaric and pseudo-scientific history of psychiatry.
>
> Yes. This is unfortunate.That's exactly and precisely how I would frame things.
>
> > I wonder how society might look back at the state of psychiatry today, fifty years from now.
> I think they will smile at how useful our drugs were despite ourselves, and how little we understood of the brain and how these drugs affect it. They will also be sad at how blunt our tools were, with drugs that have troublesome and sometimes dangerous side effects.
It was amazing how much chlorpromazine (Thorazine) helped psychiatry in the second half of the last century -- while the side effects would only become apparent (and actually it wasn't the strongest of typicals).......it became patently obvious that there were ways of treating "insane" (I use that in a pre-dated way, so please don't take it literally) people other than injecting them with insulin, and yes, lobotomies and other revolting treatment.
> As I have read medical journals beginning from the 1970s to date, it is my impression that the study of mental illnesses has become more scientific in its concept and methodology."Evidence based"... yes.
>We also have many more tools to use for investigational and treatment purposes. I don't think we are in the Dark Ages of psychiatry any more.
I agree... actually my psychiatrist once called things the "Middle Ages" or something to that effect.
>I think our neuroscientists are working as fast and as diligently as they can to produce data and find understanding that will eventually benefit the clinician and his patients.
And hopefully people will allow... yes, I'll interject what has somehow become controversial, stem cell research to benefit neuropsychiatry and other brain areas which I believe will be highly beneficial as it is the center of numerous debilitating illnesses.It is just starting to be proven how parts of the brain can actually regenerate, and create connective paths around wounded areas.
-- tidings
Posted by Sigismund on September 24, 2009, at 2:25:40
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by SLS on September 23, 2009, at 5:44:05
I don't believe its progress. It's just change. Neurasthenia, hysteria, catatonia, agitated depression have given way to PTSD and bipolarity. This does not mean we know any more. It's just that this is the shape it's taking. Hysteria for example only flourishes in a society that places a premium on duty and has within itself conradictory expectations on individual roles. We are able to see that other cultures mental illnesses have a cultural component, but we find it much harder to see it with ourselves. However we need to have faith, and I see psychiatry and science to a large extent as a faith based exercise.
Posted by doxogenic boy on September 24, 2009, at 14:28:15
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin? » 49er, posted by metafunj on September 23, 2009, at 21:21:06
> I am taking Wellbutrin and have tinnitus. I hope it lessens or in the case that the med doesn't work, I hope it goes away when I discontinue.Some antidepressants are tried against tinnitus. Maybe it works to add nortriptyline?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8215728
Arch Intern Med. 1993 Oct 11;153(19):2251-9.
[...]
A randomized trial of nortriptyline for severe chronic tinnitus. Effects on depression, disability, and tinnitus symptoms.
Sullivan M, Katon W, Russo J, Dobie R, Sakai C.Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, University of Washington Medical School, Seattle.
OBJECTIVE: To determine whether the antidepressant, nortriptyline, is effective for treatment of depression, tinnitus-related disability, and tinnitus symptoms in patients with severe chronic tinnitus. DESIGN: A 12-week, double-blind, randomized controlled trial. SETTING: A university otolaryngology clinic. PATIENTS: Ninety-two subjects with severe chronic tinnitus: 38 with current major depression and 54 with depressive symptoms and significant tinnitus-related disability. INTERVENTION: Nortriptyline (maintained at 50 to 150 mg/mL for 6 weeks) or placebo. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Hamilton Depression Rating Scale, Tinnitus Disability Measures, and Audiometric Measures. RESULTS: Nortriptyline was superior to placebo by multivariate analysis of covariance for depression (10.6 vs 14.3 final Hamilton Depression score), for tinnitus-related disability (1.8 vs 2.4 final MPI Tinnitus Interference), and tinnitus loudness (13.6 vs 20.0 dB final loudness match [in worst ear at tinnitus frequency]). When major depression and depressive symptoms groups were considered separately, nortriptyline was superior to placebo on these same measures but differences did not achieve statistical significance. CONCLUSIONS: The antidepressant nortriptyline decreases depression, functional disability, and tinnitus loudness associated with severe chronic tinnitus. What appears to be irreversible disability of otologic origin may, in part, be reversible disability of psychiatric origin.
------------------------doxogenic
Posted by morganator on September 25, 2009, at 3:00:25
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin? » bleauberry, posted by SLS on September 23, 2009, at 5:26:29
I don't think Peter Breggin is totally opposed to using psychiatric medicine. I will have to research that to be sure.
Posted by SLS on September 25, 2009, at 3:17:07
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by morganator on September 25, 2009, at 3:00:25
> I don't think Peter Breggin is totally opposed to using psychiatric medicine. I will have to research that to be sure.
It would be interesting to find out what he would do to treat mental illness if he is against the use of medication.
- Scott
Posted by metafunj on September 25, 2009, at 7:47:37
In reply to Re: Who Is Peter Breggin? » metafunj, posted by doxogenic boy on September 24, 2009, at 14:28:15
Thanks for the info about nortryptiline but I will just stop Wellbutrin, hasn't done much but make me feel tweaked and twitch a lot.
Posted by jillybug on September 27, 2009, at 1:33:05
In reply to Who Is Peter Breggin?, posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2009, at 13:05:56
I have found Dr. Breggins web site tremendously helpful in my quest to withdrawal from medication that I never should have taken in the first place. There is no scientific proof of chemical imbalance. There is no way that the brain can be tested for imbalance. I believe that the drug manufacturers are indeed padding their own pockets. If you go to: http://www.furiousseasons.com/ you can download and read documents that were leaked from companies such as Lily that they suppressed information about negative case studies for some of their psychiatric drugs. I am not trying to encourage people to not take their medication or claiming that you do not need to be on medication. You can also find on Youtube interviews with Dr. Breggin about his ideas that medication is not the answer. He also has a psychiatric practice in New York. No one does not have to agree with 100% of what he says. On his website you can read his case studies or theories about what these medications do to our brains. I personally have benefitted from reading his theories to come to some sort of understanding to what has happened to me as a result of taking these meds.
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