![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 50. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by RMFlorida on September 19, 2009, at 9:56:50
As most of you know, Dextroamphetamine (Immediate Release) in the brand-form (GSK) has been discontinued. Several years ago the competing brand (Dextrostat) by Shire had also been eliminated. Towards the end of 2008, all generics (save Teva/Barr) were eliminated from the market. Mallinckrodt by choice, Ethex by the hand of the FDA.
As it sits, Teva/Barr is the only form of Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) tablet available in the US; however, that may not be relevant (see below). Worse yet, this same company (Teva/Barr) is the only manufacturer of Adderall instant-release, as well.
There were more than the usual number of complaints about the quality of Barrs Dexedrine, however, it was not a major issue. That was before Teva purchased Barr just about a year ago, and apparently changed factories/manufacturing processes.
More recently, there was a recall of Barr's Generic Adderall.
In summary: Teva/Barr is the **only remaining manufacturer** of either Adderall or Dextroamphetamine, and for many, Teva/Barr is simply not an option due to the low-quality level, which has become worse since Teva purchased Barr.
Does anyone at the FDA care? How does Barr get away with producing inferior Dextroamphetamine, what appears to be well beyond the legal threshold, and continue unencumbered?
...For those of you who are interested... Ill share the personal story of how I've discovered this information, which may resonate with some of you.About a year ago, at 37 years of age, I was prescribed Dextroamphetamine by a doc that took a much closer look into my problems, than anyone Id seen in the past.
He prescribed Adderall, and I didnt want to take any more than the minimum dosage (5mg) because I was concerned about taking a C-II substance.
Even at this low dosage, the drug did wonders for me. It did so much for my focus, efficiency, motivation, depression, demeanor, and overall mental health. It even helped me sleep better and it helped me stay on a more consistent schedule.
That was a year ago. To be sure I had found the best solution, I had tried both Adderall and Dexedrine. Dexedrine was (in my humble opinion) smoother and less disruptive. I had taken the brand (GlaxoSmithKline) and Ethex, having no side-effects.
Ive always preferred to save money by purchasing generic medications, because up until recently, I swore there was no difference between generics and the brand drugs. I swore that the FDA monitored these companies so closely that generics could never be significantly different. I swore that since the chemical composition had to be identical, that for all intensive purposes, generics were the same as brand-drugs.
Barr has changed my mind. Several months ago, I refilled my prescription for Dexedrine and received the Barr generic (being the only option available any longer). The Barr Dexedrine was terrible, I barely received any benefit with my 5mg dose, and yet my stomach would hurt and I would occasionally get this dizzy sort of headache (difficult to explain, but a very disruptive and distracting feeling that works against focus, the entire point of the medication).
Of course, I thought this was me. Because at the time, I never thought there could be any difference between generics and brand drugs, and Id been taking generics previously without any issue. Never for a second did I think that it was the drug, nor did I think to search the Internet or talk to the pharmacist. I simply thought my body was the problem.
After becoming frustrated with myself (when the Barr Dexedrine didnt work well), I assumed that I must have built a tolerance, and being very worried that I would build a dependency, I stopped taking the Barr Dexedrine after roughly 10 days. I felt much better, although less motivated, once I stopped.
A few weeks passed, and I had a situation that really dampened my outlook on things. I became less motivated, distracted, and essentially unable to focus/be a productive member of society. I thought that it was time to try the Dexedrine again, and yet I ran into the same problem. No effect, stomach problems, fuzzy head, etc.
Again thinking it was me, I eventually went off the medication after roughly 10 days.
Unfortunately, I was still in a difficult place, and felt that it was not a good time to be attempting to go without the Dexedrine. At that point, in a flash of genius, I remembered that I had a few tablets of my last prescription remaining. I had believed these were both the same (until now, I didnt realize how many generic brands existed), but wondered if I had simply stumbled upon a bad batch.
Sure enough, the other generic (Ethex) had none of the issues, and it was much more effective.
I visited the pharmacist, hoping to exchange what I thought was a bad batch of tablets. To my surprise, the pharmacist explained that my previous batches were Ethex and that the current batch, Barr was all he could get. At the time, I didnt think this relevant I assumed I was dealing with a single bad-batch. However, the pharmacist explained that he could not exchange pills, nor could he charge me for purchasing replacements, because its a C-II substance. He said the best he could do, would be to search around to determine if there were any recalls on the product.
Realizing that the pharmacist was too busy to spend any amount of time on this, I returned home and scoured the Internet for information on Dexedrine, assuming to find a recall. Initially, I didnt search for the word Barr, because I didnt realize the significance of this. However, it only took about 30 minutes of searching, to realize that the majority of people sharing information on the Internet, regarding Dexedrine, were complaining about variations in the generics.
I was astounded. Some of these forum posts (particularly one on the ADHD board) read like I had written it. This person suffered the exact side effects as I had. And I was surprised to see there were many skeptics, with a position much like my own position previously, that generics couldnt possibly be responsible for such a severe difference.
Thats where I began searching, to determine the alternatives. I thought surely this poorly made generic is not the only option? After a couple hours searching, running into dead-ends in every direction, I eventually learned what I shared towards the top of this post: there are no other options for either Dexedrine or Adderall, immediate release.
Sure, I could take Dexedrine XR, and pay 4-5 times as much. However, Im not sure thats a good idea, considering one of the major benefits of Dexedrine, is that my body would slow down significantly at night, and it made it much easier to get to sleep / maintain a consistent schedule.
And so I find myself sharing this story... For all of the skeptics that claim there is no difference between generics and brand drugs. For anyone in the FDA that happens upon this story (which Im sure to be highly unlikely). And most importantly, for anyone else who enters these search-terms into Google, hoping to find answers. Perhaps I can save you the time, effort, and frustrating process that I just went through, only to come up empty-handed.
And for those of you in the know, how can we go about bringing this to the attention of someone who will have a look at Barrs seemingly lacking standards of quality-control?
Posted by bulldog2 on September 19, 2009, at 10:25:27
In reply to Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by RMFlorida on September 19, 2009, at 9:56:50
> As most of you know, Dextroamphetamine (Immediate Release) in the brand-form (GSK) has been discontinued. Several years ago the competing brand (Dextrostat) by Shire had also been eliminated. Towards the end of 2008, all generics (save Teva/Barr) were eliminated from the market. Mallinckrodt by choice, Ethex by the hand of the FDA.
>
> As it sits, Teva/Barr is the only form of Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) tablet available in the US; however, that may not be relevant (see below). Worse yet, this same company (Teva/Barr) is the only manufacturer of Adderall instant-release, as well.
>
> There were more than the usual number of complaints about the quality of Barrs Dexedrine, however, it was not a major issue. That was before Teva purchased Barr just about a year ago, and apparently changed factories/manufacturing processes.
>
> More recently, there was a recall of Barr's Generic Adderall.
>
> In summary: Teva/Barr is the **only remaining manufacturer** of either Adderall or Dextroamphetamine, and for many, Teva/Barr is simply not an option due to the low-quality level, which has become worse since Teva purchased Barr.
>
> Does anyone at the FDA care? How does Barr get away with producing inferior Dextroamphetamine, what appears to be well beyond the legal threshold, and continue unencumbered?
>
>
> ...For those of you who are interested... Ill share the personal story of how I've discovered this information, which may resonate with some of you.
>
> About a year ago, at 37 years of age, I was prescribed Dextroamphetamine by a doc that took a much closer look into my problems, than anyone Id seen in the past.
>
> He prescribed Adderall, and I didnt want to take any more than the minimum dosage (5mg) because I was concerned about taking a C-II substance.
>
> Even at this low dosage, the drug did wonders for me. It did so much for my focus, efficiency, motivation, depression, demeanor, and overall mental health. It even helped me sleep better and it helped me stay on a more consistent schedule.
>
> That was a year ago. To be sure I had found the best solution, I had tried both Adderall and Dexedrine. Dexedrine was (in my humble opinion) smoother and less disruptive. I had taken the brand (GlaxoSmithKline) and Ethex, having no side-effects.
>
> Ive always preferred to save money by purchasing generic medications, because up until recently, I swore there was no difference between generics and the brand drugs. I swore that the FDA monitored these companies so closely that generics could never be significantly different. I swore that since the chemical composition had to be identical, that for all intensive purposes, generics were the same as brand-drugs.
>
> Barr has changed my mind. Several months ago, I refilled my prescription for Dexedrine and received the Barr generic (being the only option available any longer). The Barr Dexedrine was terrible, I barely received any benefit with my 5mg dose, and yet my stomach would hurt and I would occasionally get this dizzy sort of headache (difficult to explain, but a very disruptive and distracting feeling that works against focus, the entire point of the medication).
>
> Of course, I thought this was me. Because at the time, I never thought there could be any difference between generics and brand drugs, and Id been taking generics previously without any issue. Never for a second did I think that it was the drug, nor did I think to search the Internet or talk to the pharmacist. I simply thought my body was the problem.
>
> After becoming frustrated with myself (when the Barr Dexedrine didnt work well), I assumed that I must have built a tolerance, and being very worried that I would build a dependency, I stopped taking the Barr Dexedrine after roughly 10 days. I felt much better, although less motivated, once I stopped.
>
> A few weeks passed, and I had a situation that really dampened my outlook on things. I became less motivated, distracted, and essentially unable to focus/be a productive member of society. I thought that it was time to try the Dexedrine again, and yet I ran into the same problem. No effect, stomach problems, fuzzy head, etc.
>
> Again thinking it was me, I eventually went off the medication after roughly 10 days.
>
> Unfortunately, I was still in a difficult place, and felt that it was not a good time to be attempting to go without the Dexedrine. At that point, in a flash of genius, I remembered that I had a few tablets of my last prescription remaining. I had believed these were both the same (until now, I didnt realize how many generic brands existed), but wondered if I had simply stumbled upon a bad batch.
>
> Sure enough, the other generic (Ethex) had none of the issues, and it was much more effective.
>
> I visited the pharmacist, hoping to exchange what I thought was a bad batch of tablets. To my surprise, the pharmacist explained that my previous batches were Ethex and that the current batch, Barr was all he could get. At the time, I didnt think this relevant I assumed I was dealing with a single bad-batch. However, the pharmacist explained that he could not exchange pills, nor could he charge me for purchasing replacements, because its a C-II substance. He said the best he could do, would be to search around to determine if there were any recalls on the product.
>
> Realizing that the pharmacist was too busy to spend any amount of time on this, I returned home and scoured the Internet for information on Dexedrine, assuming to find a recall. Initially, I didnt search for the word Barr, because I didnt realize the significance of this. However, it only took about 30 minutes of searching, to realize that the majority of people sharing information on the Internet, regarding Dexedrine, were complaining about variations in the generics.
>
> I was astounded. Some of these forum posts (particularly one on the ADHD board) read like I had written it. This person suffered the exact side effects as I had. And I was surprised to see there were many skeptics, with a position much like my own position previously, that generics couldnt possibly be responsible for such a severe difference.
>
> Thats where I began searching, to determine the alternatives. I thought surely this poorly made generic is not the only option? After a couple hours searching, running into dead-ends in every direction, I eventually learned what I shared towards the top of this post: there are no other options for either Dexedrine or Adderall, immediate release.
>
> Sure, I could take Dexedrine XR, and pay 4-5 times as much. However, Im not sure thats a good idea, considering one of the major benefits of Dexedrine, is that my body would slow down significantly at night, and it made it much easier to get to sleep / maintain a consistent schedule.
>
> And so I find myself sharing this story... For all of the skeptics that claim there is no difference between generics and brand drugs. For anyone in the FDA that happens upon this story (which Im sure to be highly unlikely). And most importantly, for anyone else who enters these search-terms into Google, hoping to find answers. Perhaps I can save you the time, effort, and frustrating process that I just went through, only to come up empty-handed.
>
> And for those of you in the know, how can we go about bringing this to the attention of someone who will have a look at Barrs seemingly lacking standards of quality-control?
>Started vyvanse (30 mg) which is actually 8.9 mg of d-amphetamaine several days ago. Made by shire.For me the first day it seemed active for about 8 hours. Very smooth and good for my mood also. Have add and atypical depression. By the third day however tolerance was beginning to set in. I just build up a rapid tolerance to stims. Shame as for many they are the perfect drug. I could just take it 3 days a week and be content with that.
Years ago there was a poster who used memantine to prevent tolerance to amphetamine. However I tried memantine and could not tolerate the med as it made me feel like my head was going to explode.
Posted by Phillipa on September 19, 2009, at 10:30:04
In reply to Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by RMFlorida on September 19, 2009, at 9:56:50
See my thread on Forrest pharm. Similar story something is going on with the drug companies? And welcome to babble. Phillipa
Posted by sam K on September 19, 2009, at 12:24:53
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by bulldog2 on September 19, 2009, at 10:25:27
teva's a horrible company for psych drugs. every teva drug i have is completley different than other generics/brand name.
HEAR THIS: micheal jacksons propofol was made by Teva. Nobody says nething about that. Teva is terrible in my experience
Posted by bulldog2 on September 19, 2009, at 12:59:58
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by sam K on September 19, 2009, at 12:24:53
> teva's a horrible company for psych drugs. every teva drug i have is completley different than other generics/brand name.
>
> HEAR THIS: micheal jacksons propofol was made by Teva. Nobody says nething about that. Teva is terrible in my experienceI disagree. I've had Teva nortriptyline and gabapentin and both were excellent.
Posted by bulldog2 on September 19, 2009, at 13:00:35
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by sam K on September 19, 2009, at 12:24:53
> teva's a horrible company for psych drugs. every teva drug i have is completley different than other generics/brand name.
>
> HEAR THIS: micheal jacksons propofol was made by Teva. Nobody says nething about that. Teva is terrible in my experienceI disagree. I've had Teva nortriptyline and gabapentin and both were excellent.
Posted by RMFlorida on September 19, 2009, at 15:45:50
In reply to Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by RMFlorida on September 19, 2009, at 9:56:50
Thank you for the comment about Vyvanse. It's inspiring to know that you don't have sleep issues while taking it; however, many I've read do. In my case, I have sleep issues simply taking Adderall versus Dexedrine. Therefore, XR is going to exacerbate this, and Vyvanse theoretically would be more-so.
Vyvanse is also quite expensive for someone that does not have a prescription plan available. However, this probably isnt that relevant since my primary point is simply that a critical drug has essentially been eliminated from the market, by reducing the only option to that of a supplier who produces an inferior product.
Does anyone know whether GSK continues to sell name-brand Dexedrine, or whether there is a non-Barr version of the generic, available in Canada? It probably isnt worth the hassle to get a C-II substance from Canada; however, it would be interesting to find out.
Posted by bulldog2 on September 19, 2009, at 16:07:20
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by RMFlorida on September 19, 2009, at 15:45:50
> Thank you for the comment about Vyvanse. It's inspiring to know that you don't have sleep issues while taking it; however, many I've read do. In my case, I have sleep issues simply taking Adderall versus Dexedrine. Therefore, XR is going to exacerbate this, and Vyvanse theoretically would be more-so.
>
> Vyvanse is also quite expensive for someone that does not have a prescription plan available. However, this probably isnt that relevant since my primary point is simply that a critical drug has essentially been eliminated from the market, by reducing the only option to that of a supplier who produces an inferior product.
>
> Does anyone know whether GSK continues to sell name-brand Dexedrine, or whether there is a non-Barr version of the generic, available in Canada? It probably isnt worth the hassle to get a C-II substance from Canada; however, it would be interesting to find out.
>I got my first script for Vyvanse from Shire for free. P-doc gave me a vyvanse kit with a card for a free month's supply. Love free meds! You might be able to get that off their site.
I've tried adderall and like this better. Trying to see if there's any method of preventing tolerance so I can at least use it 5 days a week.
Also I might try the 40 mg capsule next month.Do you know of any good strategies for slowing amphetamine tolerance? Can't tolerate memantine.
I noticed I didn't get that cold clammy nervous feeling that I get on other stims. Bit of euphoria as if Vyvanse is dominant on dopamine instead of norepinephrine.
Wonder how the combo of nortriptyline and vyvanse would go as they supposedly potentiate each other. Drug insert say tcas raise the level of amphetamine in the brain. Wonder what the interaction is that causes this? I would go low dose first.
I believe Linkadge was/is combining 50 mg amitriptyline with ritalin.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 20, 2009, at 14:15:19
In reply to Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by RMFlorida on September 19, 2009, at 9:56:50
Hmmm. I wonder if that's why my Barr 'spansules' never seemed to last more than 4 hours.
I've only experienced generic.
Thank you for bringing this to attention. I'm not one in the 'know' to do much about it...but it might tip me towards trying vyvanse....
fb
Posted by yxibow on September 21, 2009, at 4:25:12
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by bulldog2 on September 19, 2009, at 12:59:58
> > teva's a horrible company for psych drugs. every teva drug i have is completley different than other generics/brand name.
> >
> > HEAR THIS: micheal jacksons propofol was made by Teva. Nobody says nething about that. Teva is terrible in my experience
What the heck does a generic anesthetic have to do with Michael Jackson's death ? It's been around since the 80's for short acting anesthesia.
Teva has nothing to do with an irresponsible doctor injecting someone with a drug to be used in ERs.
> I disagree. I've had Teva nortriptyline and gabapentin and both were excellent.
I've had "real" Lamictal, Teva lamotrigine and Apotex lamotrigine. I thought there was some difference in the way it took effect, but this may really have been nothing to do with the medication and instead due to raising the level of Anafranil as there really hasn't been any reports of thirst with Lamictal.
Teva has been one of Israel's most successful bio-tech corporations, and yes, it acquired two other companies (Ivax and Barr specifically) bringing it to the status of a multinational entity. But, that's trivia....
If you take an example of any generic medication, say a tricyclic or a benzodiazepine, you are bound to find by this point at least half a dozen generic manufacturers.Apotex, Teva, Watson, Mylan, Sandoz, Dr. Reddy's, the list goes on.
Yes, Teva is the world's largest generic manufacturer. They also have brought two of their own medications to market and are partering to do more of their own research.
My point is, I'm sure someone will find their generic to be "awful" compared to the original or another one because 1) possibly the binding is different meaning the drug is released a bit faster or slower or 2) it has nothing to do with the generic and they had a shift in their illness that happened to coincide with it.
It's a tight market out there so pharmacies frequently order different generics because the price for a particular generic has risen or fallen with the stock market and numerous other factors.I recently retried the Teva lamotrigine because I had some still around and I can't say I felt the same side effect sensation (yet) anyhow that I felt before.
Conclusion... I don't know ?
The pharmacy did say I could request the Teva generic instead of the Apotex if they ordered it a bit in advance. I think other pharmacies can special order that too -- depends on their flexibility.
-- tidings
Posted by RMFlorida on September 21, 2009, at 10:32:57
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared » bulldog2, posted by yxibow on September 21, 2009, at 4:25:12
@yxibow -- I'll clarify a couple points to be certain my post is not misinterpreted...
I did not attempt to demonize Teva/Barr in a generalized sense; I don't have any information to support that.
Rather, I simply pointed out the very significant difference in their particular formulation of Dexedrine, and the fact that there exists *no alternative* in the event people do have bad luck with that particular formula.
In my humble opinion, I'm sure Teva/Barr's drugs are no more toxic than the brand-drugs (on the whole) and had nothing to do with Michael Jackson's death. I agree that was not relevant to this post.
However, with that said, you've taken an off-topic point (Teva/Barr beyond the Dexedrine issues, and in general) and continued to take it further off-topic, and these off-topic points dillute the important point I attempted to make.
For example, you mention that some people may have a different response to generics and that it's probably not the generic (rather, it's a change in their environment, condition, mental perspective, etc).
Nothing I wrote disagreed with this in any way. However, if you read my post, you'll realize that I didn't come to my conclusion lightly; only once I returned to the original drug and noticed a profound difference. In other words: taking the original for months, no problems ... taking the Barr for a month, WITH problems ... go back to the original, no problems once again.
All the while, having assumed that I was on the same drug / generic (in other words, there was no subjective logic relating to Barr or any other vendor, because I shared your opinion that such differences were not empirically justified, and had believed I was on the same prescription until speaking with the pharmacist).
In short, I'm not looking to start a thread discussing the strengths or weaknesses of Teva/Barr as a whole, or of generics-versus-brand drugs.
Rather, my point was much simpler, and very explicitly declared:
Those prescribed to Dexedrine (conventional, immediate release) no longer have *options*. Barr is the only manufacturer, and there have been *more than the usual* number of complaints about their formulation.
One such compliant is from me, a person who until they took the Barr Dexedrine, swore that generics were the same as brand-drugs.
My goal was to present this in hopes of helping others who stumble upon this thread. People who, like myself, wonder if they're crazy because they've run into these same issues.
I also hoped to bring this issue to the attention of others, on the odd chance that it might eventually help get to the bottom of this issue by raising awareness and eventually fixing the problems.
Finally, I wrote this point as a request, in the event that I'm wrong, or that someone has information to share about an elusive alternative to Barr Dexedrine that does exist, or an accepted work-around, so to speak.
To anyone that would prefer to discuss Teva/Barr beyond their Dexedrine product, it detracts from the original topic, and if at all possible, I'd like to keep this on-topic as much as possible.
Posted by cII on September 21, 2009, at 19:23:20
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by RMFlorida on September 21, 2009, at 10:32:57
Hi, I registered just to reply to this current thread.
I've been a longtime Dexedrine user, since the early 90's before there were any generics available. Went ~10 years without medication and within that time generics became available, as well as the rise in popularity of Adderall. At age 27 I went back to seek help from a psychiatrist who at first prescribed Adderall XR. Found it unacceptable, too buzzy and speedy. Later got brand name GSK Dexedrine Spansules which were always good but my insurance hassled me and my doctor to no end for specifically requesting the GSK brand. They always refused to pay for the brand name, using the claim that there was a "generic equivalent" available. Like so many other stories you find on the internet, I found Barr's extended release Dextroamphetamine made me feel like total garbage. I actually had to throw away a couple bottles of it (doctor didn't want it, pharmacy wouldn't take it back). I did enjoy a couple of prescription fills with Mallinckrodt's extended release Dextroamphetamine, but sadly they have discontinued making it.
It is true, the only options as of now (Fall 2009) is stuff made by Barr or the extremely expensive GSK brand name Spansules. Right now I'm settling with 10mg Barr IR tablets. They are not ideal, but I have to say they are nowhere near as awful as Barr's extended release dextroamphetamine. Something about Barr's ER dex was very wrong. I'd call their IR tablets just a "little dirty" but usually tolerable.
I have yet to try Vyvanse, but would rather not even bother with testing it out (I personally think it is a BS reformulation of the same old drug for patent purposes). I just want good old tried-and-true Dexedrine back, without garbage generic versions. Hopefully there will be some change in options for us soon.
Posted by bulldog2 on September 23, 2009, at 15:20:49
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared » RMFlorida, posted by cII on September 21, 2009, at 19:23:20
> Hi, I registered just to reply to this current thread.
>
> I've been a longtime Dexedrine user, since the early 90's before there were any generics available. Went ~10 years without medication and within that time generics became available, as well as the rise in popularity of Adderall. At age 27 I went back to seek help from a psychiatrist who at first prescribed Adderall XR. Found it unacceptable, too buzzy and speedy. Later got brand name GSK Dexedrine Spansules which were always good but my insurance hassled me and my doctor to no end for specifically requesting the GSK brand. They always refused to pay for the brand name, using the claim that there was a "generic equivalent" available. Like so many other stories you find on the internet, I found Barr's extended release Dextroamphetamine made me feel like total garbage. I actually had to throw away a couple bottles of it (doctor didn't want it, pharmacy wouldn't take it back). I did enjoy a couple of prescription fills with Mallinckrodt's extended release Dextroamphetamine, but sadly they have discontinued making it.
>
> It is true, the only options as of now (Fall 2009) is stuff made by Barr or the extremely expensive GSK brand name Spansules. Right now I'm settling with 10mg Barr IR tablets. They are not ideal, but I have to say they are nowhere near as awful as Barr's extended release dextroamphetamine. Something about Barr's ER dex was very wrong. I'd call their IR tablets just a "little dirty" but usually tolerable.
>
> I have yet to try Vyvanse, but would rather not even bother with testing it out (I personally think it is a BS reformulation of the same old drug for patent purposes). I just want good old tried-and-true Dexedrine back, without garbage generic versions. Hopefully there will be some change in options for us soon.Since you can get a free script of vyvanse it might be worth trying?
Posted by cII on September 24, 2009, at 10:58:51
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by bulldog2 on September 23, 2009, at 15:20:49
>Since you can get a free script of vyvanse it might be worth trying?
I may try it eventually. My doctor hasn't really pushed it on me even though it looks like the rep visited him already. I'm also busy with life (work/family) at the moment don't really want to go through that "new med" period in case Vyvanse doesn't work the quite the same way.
BTW, I'd be a little more inclined to try Vyvanse if it had a easier scheduling than cII.
(However, less-than-cII might not always be a good thing; hence my handle for this forum. I have a loose belief that "if it's not a cII than it's not a good drug" ;-) Take Strattera for example, YUCK! I got suckered into trying that one just to avoid cII scowls at the pharmacy and monthly hand-written refills, but that garbage threw my life off track for well over a month. The SSRI I got suckered into trying at one time also had a quality-of-life-killing effect for over a month. I guess the only exception to my cII beliefs are benzos, although I can't understand why they don't have a higher scheduling, seeing as they are far more addictive than any amphetamine. Sorry for this little OT section, but this is a forum and I feel a need to get these things off my chest.)I guess it just doesn't seem worth it to switch meds right away when I haven't heard overly-wonderful reviews of the new Vyvanse alternative. Good point about the free script though, I should probably pick one up while the offer is still out there. Maybe I'll save it and test it out over the holidays.
Posted by RMFlorida on September 24, 2009, at 12:39:14
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by cII on September 24, 2009, at 10:58:51
CII-
I completely agree with you on the issues with the stigma. It would be great if there were an alternative; although, I'm just thankful it exists, because it's such a tremendous resource for people who truly need it.Regarding testing different meds. I'm not rich, but no amount of "free" is worth going through the month-long ordeal of trying another med that doesn't work. In other words, while "free" is very nice, the price is of much less concern than losing a month to a hazy-feel.
I really appreciate your feedback, thank you for taking the time to write.
Posted by mistermulti on October 27, 2009, at 22:10:52
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by RMFlorida on September 21, 2009, at 10:32:57
>>
> I also hoped to bring this issue to the attention of others, on the odd chance that it might eventually help get to the bottom of this issue by raising awareness and eventually fixing the problems.
>
> Finally, I wrote this point as a request, in the event that I'm wrong, or that someone has information to share about an elusive alternative to Barr Dexedrine that does exist, or an accepted work-around, so to speak.
>
> To anyone that would prefer to discuss Teva/Barr beyond their Dexedrine product, it detracts from the original topic, and if at all possible, I'd like to keep this on-topic as much as possible.
>Just got prescribed Dex spanels a couple of weeks ago, and Dex 5 IR today. I have noticed differences with generics before, but I have no previous experience with Dex other than this new script.They are both Barr, thank you for your feedback, I will attempt to ferret out some background from a GSK source if at all possible.
Posted by Deneb on October 27, 2009, at 22:19:18
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared » RMFlorida, posted by mistermulti on October 27, 2009, at 22:10:52
Hello mistermulti!
Welcome to Psycho-Babble. I hope your new prescription works out for you!
Deneb
Posted by RMFlorida on October 27, 2009, at 22:42:07
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared » mistermulti, posted by Deneb on October 27, 2009, at 22:19:18
Wishing you the best of luck with both.
To update others here...
I've begun taking the 5mg Spanules (as opposed to 5mg IR). I actually prefer the alternative brand IR generics (no longer made) over the Spanules, and the cost of the Spanules is certainly an issue, roughly 8+ times more expensive.
Trying to keep my dosage low, and going with the Spanules, is a tough road to travel. However, it's better than the alternative ;-).
Posted by floatingbridge on October 27, 2009, at 22:57:41
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by RMFlorida on October 27, 2009, at 22:42:07
Good Luck RMFlorida. Your post has me thinking, too. I take the barr spansules (the only one's I've ever had) and sometimes they seem to last about 4 hours! Maybe a tad longer, but for me they are unreliable. I have given up on the barr ir tabs--that was too rocky a road.
I too am trying to keep my dose down. I'm going to see what my co-pay would be for the gsk. Probably a fortune. Humph!
Let us know how it goes.
fb
Posted by RMFlorida on October 27, 2009, at 23:41:11
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared » RMFlorida, posted by floatingbridge on October 27, 2009, at 22:57:41
@floatingbridge-
I don't think the GSK will give you a longer effect, unfortunately. Of course I could be wrong, but my impression is that the GSK Spanules are barely noticeable.Of course one way of offsetting that is to take a large amount of B-Vitamins (for example, drink 1/3 of a '5 Hour Energy Drink' every 4 hours). This does not have much caffiene (which IMHO is a terribly dangerous thing for people with ADD/particularly ADHD), and yet the B's compliment the Dexedrine very well, from a mental function and motivation.
Speaking of supplements (and I don't want to take this post off-topic, but I'll throw it out there).. I've had very good luck with a *particular* type of Rhodiola that, while a tad bit expensive, you can get at Vitacost for a reasonable price (about $22 or so).
This is: Nature's Plus Herbal Actives Rhodiola Extended Release
There is much more about Rhodiola around this forum and on the 'net, that is beyond the scope of this post, but I thought the suggestion may help you -- in the event this might fit your unique needs (stress "unique" as certainly there is no miracle fix that applies to everyone's unique condition).
To digress... This is a summary of my Dexedrine experience, as it may apply to yours/others here:
* Eliminating Barr because of the "Rocky Road" problem (inconsisent/dirty feel) seems to make sense to me, and fit my own experiences. Unfortunately, there is *no alternative*, neither a 'brand' availble, which is the reason for this post.
* Taking Dexedrine in Extended Release form (Spanules), GSK may not give you any more longevity than Barr (in my experience).
* Taking Dexedrine in Extended Release form (Spanules), may feel like a half-dose (and for all intensive purposes, it is -- released, in simplest terms, half-and-half).
* GSK (Brand Name) Dexedrine Extended (Spanules) is *much* more of a 'dirty' feel to me. I much preferred the IR. Both Barr IR and GSK Spanules cause the occasional headache/stomach problems, where as other IR generics did not cause me any such problems.
Note: To compensate for the Barr-related stomach problems, I also found what I believe may be a help. I've taken some "Probiotics" along with yogurt, at least 15-30 minutes before I took the pill, and I didn't seem to feel as bad. However, I only tested this for a few days before going on the Spanules.
Good luck everyone; I hope this saves someone else a little time, somewhere along the way :-).
Posted by psych chat on October 28, 2009, at 0:16:58
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by RMFlorida on October 27, 2009, at 23:41:11
I've been reluctant to post lately, but I wanted to comment about the dextroamphetamine in case it helps anyone.
There is another version of dextroamphetamine -Dextrostat (only available in generic/I think its only Barr). For me, it works for 6 hours and is so much better than Dexadrine. While it may be different for others, Dexadrine only made me able to stay awake longer, and made my stomache hurt. I get no side effects from Dextrostat (the tablets). The Dextrostat seems to work on my brain, the Dexadrine does not seem to, but only gave me a bit of a speedy feeling I did not like.
Just an option for those who may not be aware. Dextrostat has to be written via the brand name, then substitute the generic. The brand does not exist anymore, but the RX still has to be written this way or you will automatically get Dexedrine if PDoc writes a script for dextroamphetamine.
Posted by RMFlorida on October 28, 2009, at 0:49:32
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by psych chat on October 28, 2009, at 0:16:58
I believe that if you research this, you'll find that DextroStat = Dexedrine. The generic you receive is the *exact* generic you will receive if the prescription was written for Dexedrine. Unfortunately, this is the Barr brand I've referred to here (although it's great to hear you've had good luck with this, unlike many of us).
Have a jog over to wikipedia and enter DextroStat, I believe that's the most straightforward explanation there.
Posted by psych chat on October 28, 2009, at 10:47:43
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by RMFlorida on October 28, 2009, at 0:49:32
No, when I'm prescribed dexedrine, I get a (colored) capsule (and its also the generic). It's different.
Posted by RMFlorida on October 28, 2009, at 11:28:32
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by psych chat on October 28, 2009, at 10:47:43
Yes, in the past, you received a different pill.
At present, there is only one generic for DextroStat or Dexedrine. It's Barr, and regardless of color/etc -- it's the same formulation. This is exactly the point of the thread.
Your pharmacist might tell you there are multiple available (just about every pharmacy here claims there are), but once you ask them to place the order, they'll be updated by their rep, with the news that the *only* remaining IR formula is Barr Dexedrine.
Again, I'm not disagreeing with you that in the past, the Dexedrine generic had a difference appearance. However, if you compared both prescriptions, as of today, you'll notice they are identical.
Posted by psych chat on October 28, 2009, at 16:28:41
In reply to Re: Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) Has Disappeared, posted by RMFlorida on October 28, 2009, at 11:28:32
I just got this script filled today-there are 2 versions of the Barr generic dextro amphetamine. I got the tablet again-NOT the capsule. While they may technically have the same substance inside, the capusles work differently than the tablets. (for me - completely different effects).
If your doc writes Dextrostat you will get a different med than if your doc writes Dexedrine.
I might be misunderstanding what you are saying (maybe I'm dense today)....I see you are saying its the same formulation..but I am confused that you said:
"*only* remaining IR formula is Barr Dexedrine."
But if that's the case, why do I get Barr Dextrostat and not the Dexedrine?
And if they are the same, then why is there 2 versions of the script; why would doctors need to specifiy Dextrostat rather than Dexedrine to provide me with the version of d-amp that works for me?
Hey-I'm not trying to be argumentive-just a bit confused. If there is only one version, why do would there be 2 ways to write the script, rather than one? Dexedrine is a brand name; so is Dextrostat. If they are exactly the same, why would they be called different names?
Ok-if you are saying the 2 are the same substance - capsule/spanules vs. the tablets, I get that. But I think they work much differently-maybe there is something done to the capusles/spanules in the way they metabolize. That's why I request my doctor write Dextrostat.
Sorry if I am confusing and getting too wordy here. Hopefully that clarifies what I'm trying to say.
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