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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by West on September 5, 2009, at 11:35:36
Hey guys,
What differences did you notice? Effexor has been effective but I can't get over the night sweats.
Posted by Phillipa on September 5, 2009, at 12:00:54
In reply to Perceptions: effexor and pristiq, posted by West on September 5, 2009, at 11:35:36
Hi West it's just so good to see someone posting. Seems no ones around. Away a lot as labor day weekend. I do hope someone is in the house so to speak. So how are your doing? As for the pritiq and effexor might have to use the archieves unless someone posts today. Have a great day. Love Phillipa
Posted by zana on September 5, 2009, at 15:10:13
In reply to Re: Perceptions: effexor and pristiq » West, posted by Phillipa on September 5, 2009, at 12:00:54
Hi West,
I take pristiq now and took effexor a long time ago. I had to discontinue effexor because I found it too agitating. That's what my pdoc's notes say. I actually don't remember what it was like or any side effects. I can tell you that the only side effects I notice on the pristiq are constipation and sexual numbness, if you know what I mean. It is touted as having no sexual side effects for women. My pdoc says I'm one of the unlucky 10%. Adding wellbutrin and taking 2 viagra help. Unfortunately my insurance won't pay for the viagra which makes having sex a $40 proposition :(
It's supposed to have fewer side effects overall.
Hope this helps.
Zana
Posted by Phillipa on September 5, 2009, at 21:08:22
In reply to Re: Perceptions: effexor and pristiq, posted by zana on September 5, 2009, at 15:10:13
Zana so you pay for sex? Hope hubby appreciate it too. Kind of kidding got to keep it light sometimes. Love Phillipa
Posted by Reggie BoStar on September 9, 2009, at 0:11:37
In reply to Perceptions: effexor and pristiq, posted by West on September 5, 2009, at 11:35:36
Hi West,
I can add to what Phillipa and Zana have suggested - Effexor gave me a ton of undesirable side effects compared to Pristiq. I can't remember if this was also noted in the thread, but Pristiq is actually a "metabolite" of Effexor. The intent was to reduce side-effects by chemically processing Effexor the way the body does, at least initially, to isolate the active ingredient.Per what Phillipa said about looking in the archives, look for the thread I started about a week ago on this very topic.
I had recently been switched from Pristiq to Effexor. I'm in the Medicare "Donut Hole" for prescription coverage. Since Pristiq has no generic yet I could not get coverage for it and was being treated with samples. When the supply of Pristiq samples ran low, my pdoc switched me to a generic of Effexor that's covered by my Medicare supplemental insurance.
Anyway, in the other thread I had been on Effexor only a few days and was already reporting problems. A few days after my last post I called my pdoc and said I was going back on the remainder of my Pristiq samples and dumping the Effexor. The latter was totally exhausting me and making me sleep 15-20 hours per day. I was worried about getting into a semi-comatose state that only ECT could snap me out of. That happened to me in 2005.
Two days after switching back to Pristiq, the side effects had pretty much vanished. Both of these drugs have a short half-life compared to other SSRIs and SNRIs so any change is felt within days.
So that's my take. Effexor puts me in a very place where I'd rather not stay, at risk of needing ECT to get out of it. Pristiq does nothing like that.
What about depression? That's what both of these drugs are supposed to treat in me. Effexor obviously made things much worse for me. No arguments there.
Pristiq doesn't help all that much, unfortunately. Some months ago I had to go without it for 3-4 days because of a screwup with the samples. I started to feel depressed again - not nearly as bad as taking Effexor did, but noticeable. Resuming the Pristiq on the 5th day reversed that trend slightly.
It just doesn't do anything beyond making me slightly less miserable. Every little bit helps I supposed but I'll clearly need a lot more than Pristiq to turn things around. I have other meds with side effects that I have to juggle too.
It's a mess. All those meds, and now Pristiq, can do nothing beyond maintaining a state of mind that's not quite as morose as suicidal.
The real danger here is that this morose feeling is close to being worse than a hangover. If that happens, I'll start drinking - being drunk would feel just fine and being hung over would be an improvement too. And if THAT happens, the transition to suicidal will be right around the corner.
Well, look on the less dark side: the short half-lives of Pristiq and Effexor mean that if you have to make a change, it won't take long to complete the withdrawal process. I no longer tolerate anything that makes me feel worse. At the first sign of trouble, I call the pdoc and make a change. These drugs at least make that an easy thing to do.
Oops. That was a tad long, wasn't it?
Good luck with Pristiq vs. Effexor, whichever way (or neither) your own battles go.
Later,
Reggie BoStar
Posted by Phillipa on September 9, 2009, at 19:37:54
In reply to Re: Perceptions: effexor and pristiq » West, posted by Reggie BoStar on September 9, 2009, at 0:11:37
Reggie had no idea you felt that horrible. What's your next step if it doesn't work. Do you feel that the break in pristiq was like repeating the med for a second time? It does have a fairly long half life compared to others doesn't it? Love Phillipa
Posted by Reggie BoStar on September 12, 2009, at 21:13:54
In reply to Re: Perceptions: effexor and pristiq » Reggie BoStar, posted by Phillipa on September 9, 2009, at 19:37:54
Hi Phillipa,
I don't know what I'll do next. The short-term goal was to get the Effexor out of my system and get the Pristiq back in, so I could at least function. That process is now complete and I'm back to my old miserable self.But I can get out to walk every day while I listen to good audiobooks. I do 3+ miles every day at a good pace. It's critical that I do this no matter how I feel or what the weather is.
The weather works to my advantage because I can make the preparations for the walks into learning experiences. I'm gradually finding out exactly what I need to wear to be completely comfortable in the worst weather New Hampshire has to offer: temperatures near 0 deg F, with below 0 wind chills.
Because of the crappy weather this year I've also learned a lot about walking in the rain. A plain old-fashioned umbrella with waterproof walking sneakers beats those hooded rain jackets hands down. My glasses and headphones stay dry.
Concentrating on things like this with intensity helps a great deal. So does choosing audiobooks carefully. Any book on psychology that reminds me of the big picture - even self-help books because they make me think about it - are verboten. I listen almost exclusively to science fiction novels. That's the literature type of science fiction, not to be confused with the "Sci-Fi" crap on TV, in movies, and in comic books.
That's another area where I need to focus intently on what I'm doing. I collect old first-edition hardbound science fiction novels, and spend a lot of time cataloging them thoroughly, wrapping the jackets in protective mylar, etc.
I carry this to compulsive extremes. I must do this to keep the other things at bay. Back when the libraries were starting to dump their fancy card catalog cabinets, I bought two of them for a song. I refinished them, then used my book cataloging software to print 3 X 5 cards for all my books. I even printed separate cards for short stories in the anthologies. At that time there were about 2000 book cards and 8000 "subtitle" cards.
Since then I've doubled my collection and am seriously thinking about getting caught up with the card catalogs.
Think about a guy who has to open and close his front door 103 times before he can leave the house. Not 102 times or 104 times - 103 times exactly. If he gets it wrong or loses count, he has to start over from scratch.
Every one of the cards in the catalog is one door opening. Fortunately I was able to compromise and not start over every time I screwed up!
I learned this when I was 10 years old and was terrified in bed at night because I sincerely believed I was dying. I would keep running the same TV commercial with sound over and over again in my head. I couldn't take a break because I might start listening to my heart beat and panic.
This is how I came to use this type of thinking and acting to keep from coming completely unhinged. It isn't perfect - I needed ECT in 2005 to snap out of an overload. But it works most times.
Something like Effexor is a danger to me because it makes me feel like crap. When I feel like crap I don't have the energy to keep the brainstorming going, and so severe depression and panic starts to take over.
All of the foregoing is an explanation of why I had to get rid of Effexor as soon as possible and re-stabilize on Pristiq. Now I can at least keep pounding away at thoughts and things, like this keyboard right now.
And that is my life, and why I don't know what to do next. I see my therapist this coming week and my psychiatrist in October. I've already been in touch with the latter so I can keep the supply of free samples of Pristiq coming.
I have a backup plan, I have a backup plan. From my days on Cymbalta, I have a surplus of about 100 60mg tabs and 50 or so 30mg tabs. If my pdoc can't keep me supplied wih Pristiq until the end of the year (when the Medicare Rx prescription coverage restarts), I can go back on Cymbalta (under the pdoc's direction of course) for the rest of the year. It actually does work as well as Pristiq as far as depression and panic go. The reason I went off Cymbalta was that I was having problems with bladder retention. Gross. The sphinctors were not under my control and the default state was SHUT! I had to be cathertized twice in the ER.
However, there's a backup for the backup. From those days I also have a surplus of Flo-Max. This is the med for guys with fat prostates who also suffer from retention. My problem isn't quite the same but the Flo-Max did help with easing the retention so I didn't have to be catheterized again.
Still, even with Flo-Max it was rough on the bladder. So I went to Pristiq which doesn't cause retention, at least not for me.
More brainstorming. See how it works?
So this week there may be another change. My therapist and pdoc keep close tabs on one another. The message as before will be "I've never felt any sustained relief, not since I was 10." My therapist told me to make sure I repeated that phrase to the pdoc. This week it'll get to him again.
Who knows?
Time to catalog a new bactch of audiobooks. Later,
Reggie BoStar
Posted by Phillipa on September 12, 2009, at 21:34:03
In reply to Re: Perceptions: effexor and pristiq » Phillipa, posted by Reggie BoStar on September 12, 2009, at 21:13:54
Reggie I relate to the excercise crucial to me feeling half alive. So your're also OCD can relate to that my thing is numbers. Heard of the theory of the number 9? All numbers equal 9 figured it out in third grade. Only argument is since I ride a bike can't use an umbrella so use my rainhat attached to Jacket and lots of layers in winter. Only time I've missed a ride is if the rain in pouring really hard but since it's been dry here so far not a problem. Feeling we're in for a very cold winter. Down Coat even here North Carolina with layers underneath. Helps relieve anxiety. Only other difference I like to hear the noises outside. Have you tried luvox? Babble Love Phillipa
Posted by Reggie BoStar on September 12, 2009, at 22:24:24
In reply to Re: Perceptions: effexor and pristiq » Reggie BoStar, posted by Phillipa on September 12, 2009, at 21:34:03
Hey Phillipa,
The OCD dominates when I'm hypo-manic. The official diagnosis is Major Depressive Disorder and Bipolar II. When I'm hypo-manic I do things which are OCD. When I'm not hypo-manic, my thinking is OCD.Yes, I like to hear the outside noise too. The type of headphones I use are behind-the-neck (instead of over-the-head like full-size phones) with ear buds on the business end. Earbuds aren't the same as the "In-Ear" phones which plug directly into the ear canal. Earbuds sit on the "flat" just behind the ear canal opening, and so allow street sounds to be heard.
These phones are great. Because of the behind-the-neck frame they stay put and out of the way. I can hear everything that's going on around me, with the audiobook narration added. It's like walking with someone who's reading a book to me.
I use a Fuze (poor man's iPod) to listen to books on MP3. I can't always buy them that way, so I make a big project out of converting regular audio CDs or cassettes to MP3. It's another brain-storming project that keeps me going all the time. The result is a decent MP3 player with a ton of books on it. If it breaks while I'm walking, I use my Palm Treo smartphone as a backup player. It has the same books on it. The only reason it's not my main player is because it's too hard to access the rewind and fast-forward controls in order to replay sections of the books that were missed.
All of this crap requires constant maintenance and fooling around with getting the audiobook files onto the players. More activity to keep me from thinking about the wrong things.
Naturally this constant activity drives uncle Leo crazy. His bad is depression without the mania so he prefers a lot less commotion. The resulting interchanges also help to keep us sane. It's a bizarre household.
I did check out and join the psychonauts group. Right now I'm just a lurker, checking out the posts and current events. The bottom line is that Novartis, who has dibs on manufacturing it in the US for some reason, has delayed the program:
"The company also said today it was delaying Agomelatine, an experimental antidepressant, by about three years. The mood stabilizer will undergo more late-stage trials to study its benefits and risks as well as its journey through the human body, Novartis said."
What they don't say is that the main reason for the delay is to investigate the effects of Agomelatine on autoimmune disorders. There may be problems of some kind there.
What this all means is that the only way to buy and try the stuff is to purchase it from a country where production and sale of it is legal. It may in fact be legal for Americans to buy it that way, but it's a risky proposition to say the least. There's no way to verify the ingredients of the medications.
I'm especially suspicious of overseas medications and don't even purchase the OTC stuff if I suspect or know that it's being manufactured outside the US. In fact I have an internet traceroute program that I've used to verify that a lot of the so-called online pharmacies in "Canada" are actually based elsewhere. I have this thing about lead and melamine in my meds.
I'll be keeping an eye on that psychonauts group as well as Novartis to check on the progress of Agomelatine in the US.
Later,
Reggie BoStar
Posted by Phillipa on September 13, 2009, at 19:54:53
In reply to Re: Perceptions: effexor and pristiq » Phillipa, posted by Reggie BoStar on September 12, 2009, at 22:24:24
Reggie I didn't know that hypomania could cause OCD. That's a new one for me. Now what are the other meds your're on? Must be a mood stabalizer in there somewhere. Love Phillipa. Boy you sound like you have tons of energy can you lend me some?
This is the end of the thread.
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