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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Monica L on September 5, 2009, at 21:17:21
I have more than one question but I'll start with this one. I struggle with fatigue, all day everyday. It's worse in the morning to where I can hardly function. I take Ritalin LA in the morning 30mg for ADD.
It wears off around 1 pm so I finally feel like I'm able to do things around this time because I take 40 mg of immediate release ritalin.
I also take 40 mg of Paxil CR, 300 mg of Lyrica and the YAZ BC pill. The fatigue has been going on for as long as I can remember. I'm beginning to wonder if when the ritalin is wearing off, does that cause fatigue? But then why would I be so tired in the morning when I first take it? I go to bed at a decent time ( 10 pm) and wake up around 7 am. I've had my thyroid checked about a thousand times and it always comes back normal. I';ve also had all types of blood work done, nothing wrong.
This is getting really depressing, I've been on EVERY medication you can think of. Any of your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by alchemy on September 6, 2009, at 10:29:46
In reply to Ritalin and Fatigue??, posted by Monica L on September 5, 2009, at 21:17:21
Just a question- did you already have this fatigue problem before Ritalin & how long did the Ritalin help the fatige (if at all)?
Have you tried Provigil/Modafinil for your fatigue?
Posted by bleauberry on September 6, 2009, at 15:07:39
In reply to Ritalin and Fatigue??, posted by Monica L on September 5, 2009, at 21:17:21
Well, this is going to sound really strange to you, and I know for sure people around here get sick of me saying it, but if one person really cares about another's chronic fatigue, it has to be mentioned.
There are quite a few Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue clinics around the country and in Germany that have been finding success in the last decade. It came about quite by accident, as astute aware MDs noticed patients were getting better on these certain meds.
The meds in question are things like Doxycycline, Tetracycline, Erythromicin, Diflucan. These are antibiotics and antifungals.
In addition, the alternative and natural clinics are seeing significant improvement with anti-microbial herbs that target a wide range of bacteria, fungi, and viruses.
This approach has not been formally studied. It is just a huge body of anecdotal observation at this time. No one is likely to study it because there is no money in it. It is one of those phenomenon of history where anecdotal evidence is so profound as to rapidly overwhelm conventional thinking. But then, of course, conventional thinking doesn't even offer an explanaion for chronic fatigue. The neurotoxins of malignant organsims are powerful explanations.
I'm not the expert of viruses. I do know there are several that cause your symptoms and cause people to show up at forums such as pbabble.
The prime bacterial suspects are Borellia, Bartonella, and Mycoplasma.
There are a host of parasites. A most problematic one is Babesia.
The primary fungus is Candida, and this is likely the first step on your journey to saying bye-bye to chronic fatigue. It is just so common.
There really are no accurate tests for any of these. It is a clinical diagnosis based on history and symptom patterns. These things are in your tissues, not the blood. They have extraordinary survival skills in deceiving the immune system and tests from seeing them, that is, until after a bunch of their dead and weakened body parts from treatment show up. Many people test negative before treatment, and solidly positive after treatment has had a few weeks. Trials of particular medicines or herbs solidly confirm or refute a suspected diagnosis by way of the Herxheimer reaction.
You absolutely do not want a doctor who is going to use a lab test as the primary judgement factor. That could potentially give you a life sentence in prison with no parole. The things that are important are history, symptoms, and what is working in specialist offices.
You seem to be at a point where options are running out and mysteries abound, so I just wanted to point out this angle that has likely not been considered.
Very simple. Most chronic fatigue patients improve markedly on antibiotic herbs or meds, and antifungal herbs and meds. Why? Well, it doesn't matter. Pretty safe to assume there is a hidden invader and lots of neurotoxins from them.
Either an LLMD (Lyme Literate MD) or an Integrative MD are the ones you want to see. Both are even better than one alone. Whether you have Lyme or not, these types of clinicians are well experienced in your symptoms and causes, whereas routine MDS are kind of limited in choosing a handful of meds that might pep you up (but not even touch the problem).
As for Ritalin, sure, a come-down fatigue crash could be expected. But it is the other presentations, history, and symptoms you described that caught my attention as being yellow flags. The only way to rule out the meds themselves being involved would be to stop each one, carefully, one at a time, and see what happens. Who knows, maybe it is Lyrica.
You presentation looks pretty darn identical to tens of thousands of others though. We all have the freedom to choose our path. I just wanted to present one that is working around the world in specialist clinics, for you to look into deeper or shrug it off as nonsense, whichever is your will.
Posted by Monica L on September 6, 2009, at 19:28:12
In reply to Re: Ritalin and Fatigue??, posted by bleauberry on September 6, 2009, at 15:07:39
> Well, this is going to sound really strange to you, and I know for sure people around here get sick of me saying it, but if one person really cares about another's chronic fatigue, it has to be mentioned.
>
> There are quite a few Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue clinics around the country and in Germany that have been finding success in the last decade. It came about quite by accident, as astute aware MDs noticed patients were getting better on these certain meds.
>
> The meds in question are things like Doxycycline, Tetracycline, Erythromicin, Diflucan. These are antibiotics and antifungals.
>
> In addition, the alternative and natural clinics are seeing significant improvement with anti-microbial herbs that target a wide range of bacteria, fungi, and viruses.
>
> This approach has not been formally studied. It is just a huge body of anecdotal observation at this time. No one is likely to study it because there is no money in it. It is one of those phenomenon of history where anecdotal evidence is so profound as to rapidly overwhelm conventional thinking. But then, of course, conventional thinking doesn't even offer an explanaion for chronic fatigue. The neurotoxins of malignant organsims are powerful explanations.
>
> I'm not the expert of viruses. I do know there are several that cause your symptoms and cause people to show up at forums such as pbabble.
>
> The prime bacterial suspects are Borellia, Bartonella, and Mycoplasma.
>
> There are a host of parasites. A most problematic one is Babesia.
>
> The primary fungus is Candida, and this is likely the first step on your journey to saying bye-bye to chronic fatigue. It is just so common.
>
> There really are no accurate tests for any of these. It is a clinical diagnosis based on history and symptom patterns. These things are in your tissues, not the blood. They have extraordinary survival skills in deceiving the immune system and tests from seeing them, that is, until after a bunch of their dead and weakened body parts from treatment show up. Many people test negative before treatment, and solidly positive after treatment has had a few weeks. Trials of particular medicines or herbs solidly confirm or refute a suspected diagnosis by way of the Herxheimer reaction.
>
> You absolutely do not want a doctor who is going to use a lab test as the primary judgement factor. That could potentially give you a life sentence in prison with no parole. The things that are important are history, symptoms, and what is working in specialist offices.
>
> You seem to be at a point where options are running out and mysteries abound, so I just wanted to point out this angle that has likely not been considered.
>
> Very simple. Most chronic fatigue patients improve markedly on antibiotic herbs or meds, and antifungal herbs and meds. Why? Well, it doesn't matter. Pretty safe to assume there is a hidden invader and lots of neurotoxins from them.
>
> Either an LLMD (Lyme Literate MD) or an Integrative MD are the ones you want to see. Both are even better than one alone. Whether you have Lyme or not, these types of clinicians are well experienced in your symptoms and causes, whereas routine MDS are kind of limited in choosing a handful of meds that might pep you up (but not even touch the problem).
>
> As for Ritalin, sure, a come-down fatigue crash could be expected. But it is the other presentations, history, and symptoms you described that caught my attention as being yellow flags. The only way to rule out the meds themselves being involved would be to stop each one, carefully, one at a time, and see what happens. Who knows, maybe it is Lyrica.
>
> You presentation looks pretty darn identical to tens of thousands of others though. We all have the freedom to choose our path. I just wanted to present one that is working around the world in specialist clinics, for you to look into deeper or shrug it off as nonsense, whichever is your will.Thank you so much for the information. I actually went to the Dr. a couple months ago and was told that I had a lot of white blood cells. They said I had some type of infection but they werent sure what it was. I was also told my liver enzymes were increased. I was supposed to go back and get it checked. I'm going back to get it checked soon. Do you know what herbs are used to fight these kind of infections that may cause chronic fatigue? Thank you
Posted by bleauberry on September 7, 2009, at 19:25:07
In reply to Re: Ritalin and Fatigue??, posted by Monica L on September 6, 2009, at 19:28:12
>
> Thank you so much for the information. I actually went to the Dr. a couple months ago and was told that I had a lot of white blood cells. They said I had some type of infection but they werent sure what it was. I was also told my liver enzymes were increased. I was supposed to go back and get it checked. I'm going back to get it checked soon. Do you know what herbs are used to fight these kind of infections that may cause chronic fatigue? Thank youThere are very few infections we can conclusively test for. The others are riddled with inaccuracy and convict the patient to prison when they come back negative and a doctor uses that flawed test to make a wrong and final decision. Many things just simply cannot be tested for.
When patients are suspected as having something without definitive proof, what happens sometimes is they are started on treatment as if they had it. What then happens is one of three things:
1. Unexpectedly good reaction...confirms the suspected diagnosis.
2. Unexpectedly bad reaction of symptoms worsening and new symptoms...confirms the suspected diagnosis.
3. Neutral reaction. Maybe some slight appetite loss or diarrhea or something, but really not much of a reaction one way or the other...most likely rules out the suspected diagnosis.Common antimicrobial herbs include:
Cat's Claw
Resveratrol
Olive Leaf Extract
Oil of Oregano
Wormwood
GarlicJust do a google search on each of those and read various things you find on each. Most of them are trying to sell stuff. Some are repeats of others. Some give scientific backings and real case studies of examples. In any case, if you were to visit the forums that specialize in things like Lyme, Candida, Viruses, and Parasites, those herbs are all over the place as being the most successful.
Those are some, but not all, of the common herbs in books and natural clinics treating Lyme.
I can attest from personal experience I get viscious Herx reactions (confirmation of infection) from Oil of Oregano, Cat's Claw, and Garlic. Garlic can be obtained in a pure form called Allicin. Powerful stuff without much smell. The odorless ones at the store are not very potent. I chewed one raw garlic clove each night for 3 days and oh my was I Herxing bad. Real bad. Forget the taste. That was like child's play. That was nothing in comparison. Some people have said though that to kill Lyme you really need the equivalent of 8 cloves a day (better to get it from Allicin instead of raw). At even just one clove however, it is a nuclear bomb to parasites and Candida.
Of them all though, I gotta admit, I can barely even handle one single drop of Cat's Claw. Massive killing going on.
Oil of Oregano tastes aweful, but after 3 days gives me a very strong Herx reaction.
Parasites must be a concern as well, but a minor one compared to whatever else I deal with, because I get mild tolerable Herx reactions to Wormwood.
I find Olive Leaf friendlier, with a little pep and mood enhancement with it. Subtle, but better than not.
There are others. A couple I have not tried are Berber or Oregon Grape Root. These have quinine in them, the same chemical some antibiotic and antimalarial meds have as the active ingredient.
This is the end of the thread.
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