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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 40. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2009, at 17:17:11
Hi!
Can lithium be used in smaller dosages w/ any effectiveness? I've been diagnosed most recently as BP III nos. I don't do well on AP's and I'd like to avoid depakote as a woman due to side effects--though I have tolerated it well. I know there is lamictal. I read in some of your posts that lithium had neuroprotective properties. I see my doctor tomorrow. Would it be a good option to bring up?
thanks again,
fb
Posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2009, at 18:30:36
In reply to Scott-quick question on lithium, posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2009, at 17:17:11
Fb isn't Bipolar III a reaction with meds? Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2009, at 18:56:35
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2009, at 18:30:36
Phillipa,
I think it gets or has gotten classified differently. I do not have the reaction to med type--I have the cyclothymia type. What would that be in today's terminology? Latest pdoc said BP nos. After all these years and doctors, I get confused. My BP seemed closer to BPII when I was younger and undiagnosed and untreated.
fb
Posted by SLS on August 16, 2009, at 19:39:22
In reply to Scott-quick question on lithium, posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2009, at 17:17:11
> Hi!
>
> Can lithium be used in smaller dosages w/ any effectiveness? I've been diagnosed most recently as BP III nos. I don't do well on AP's and I'd like to avoid depakote as a woman due to side effects--though I have tolerated it well. I know there is lamictal. I read in some of your posts that lithium had neuroprotective properties. I see my doctor tomorrow. Would it be a good option to bring up?
At low dosages (300-600mg), lithium can exert antidepressant activity when it is combined with a standard antidepressant in the role of augmenter when treating unipolar depression and, perhaps, bipolar depression. However, such low dosages do not treat bipolar mania acutely nor act as a prophylactic.Regarding the use of lithium as a promotor of neuroprotection and neurogenesis, I know of no study that indicates that these properties can transform a non-responder into a responder with continued use over the course of months or years. Perhaps Linkadge could shed some light on this.
- Scott
Posted by maxime on August 16, 2009, at 19:50:19
In reply to Scott-quick question on lithium, posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2009, at 17:17:11
Hi FB
One thing you should know about lithium is that it can eventually cause hypothyroidism. I am not saying that is a reason not take it, but you should be aware of it and get your thyroid tested regularly if you are on lithium.
Posted by SLS on August 16, 2009, at 20:11:09
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium » floatingbridge, posted by maxime on August 16, 2009, at 19:50:19
> Hi FB
>
> One thing you should know about lithium is that it can eventually cause hypothyroidism. I am not saying that is a reason not take it, but you should be aware of it and get your thyroid tested regularly if you are on lithium.That's a great point. Kidney function should be monitored, too.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2009, at 20:44:41
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium, posted by SLS on August 16, 2009, at 20:11:09
FB don't you also have thyroid disorder great point. As I can't take lithium for this reason. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2009, at 20:47:33
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium, posted by SLS on August 16, 2009, at 20:11:09
Thanks Scott and Maxime,
Have either of you (or anyone) heard of lithium used as a mood stabilizer for someone like, well, like me. I have no mania--lots of magical thinking when I was in my twenties and invincibility issues. Now mostly miserable mixed states and depression.
Thanks again!
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2009, at 20:49:55
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium, posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2009, at 20:44:41
yes, but Phillipa, AP's don't work, I don't want depakote, so I'm left with lamactil and lithium. i'm gonna run it all past my pdoc.
thanks for remembering,
fb
Posted by morganator on August 16, 2009, at 21:10:53
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2009, at 20:47:33
I am much like you, except, I had mixed states and depression in my early and mid twenties. The last year and a half I have returned to mixed states and deprssion that are worse than ever.
For seven years I went into remission from severe mixed states and depression. The only problem was I had the invincibility thing going on and was dreaming of being a rock star for 4 of those years. The last 3 of them I was dreaming of getting back together with my ex girlfriend. It's a long story. Now I dream of moving to L.A. and trying to make it as an actor. The only problem is I am 40 percent of who I was just 2 years ago, physically and mentally.
Really what I dream about now is being able to go back to waiting tables, experiencing good work outs, having peace of mind, etc. If I can do those things, then I can pursue my other dreams.
Back to Lithium..I'm going to take it for the rest of my life. Whether it be 150 mgs or 300 mgs. There is too much evidence out there for the benefits not to take it. I am hoping that at these low doses, I will get the benefits and avoid the potential kidney and thyroid issues.
Ugh, writing is a struggle on this high of Depakote..can't think well either..need to lower..ugh
Posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2009, at 21:26:48
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2009, at 20:49:55
FB I did take lamictal as an augmentor had no typical side effects no rages, no insomnia, no muscle pain. No side effect was too rare and benign to mention. I must google bipolar III as I'm misinformed. Love Phillipa ps is thyroid stable now? write
Posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2009, at 21:39:47
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2009, at 18:56:35
FB confusing will try other two defs you gave. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2009, at 21:45:59
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2009, at 21:39:47
Rules state no more than three posts in a row so can't do cyclomania. Sorry. Love Phillipa ps a new posting name for me queenofgoogle.
http://www.depressionforums.org/articles/115/1/Bipolar-Disorder-NOS/Page1.htm
Posted by Maxime on August 16, 2009, at 21:57:35
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2009, at 20:47:33
Fb, I have heard of so many people doing well on low doses of lithium for mixed states and depression. I really think it's something you should try. It may be the med for you!
Posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2009, at 22:05:11
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium » Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2009, at 21:45:59
Phillipa, do you remember that I called you the queen of google about a week or so ago? You are!
(couldn't get the page to load--will try later.)
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2009, at 22:08:40
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium » floatingbridge, posted by Maxime on August 16, 2009, at 21:57:35
Hi Maxime,
I will float this by my pdoc tomorrow. Right now I'm beginning to feel a little sad trying to figure out what's wrong with me. It's been a life-long question. Bipolar something.... Sigh. It's changed throughout the years, started early and is only getting worse. Sounds like many of us here.
Thanks for your help,
fb
Posted by alchemy on August 16, 2009, at 22:58:18
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium » floatingbridge, posted by Maxime on August 16, 2009, at 21:57:35
> Fb, I have heard of so many people doing well on low doses of lithium for mixed states and depression. I really think it's something you should try. It may be the med for you!
>
I didn't know it had much of an effect on depression. I'm kind of a Bipolar II with agitated depression and swings. (I wish I new what mania felt like).
I still need something to help my wellbutrin-lamictal-celexa-xanax combo. I stil have a little cycling and my status-quo is depressed,
One of my main issues is RESTLESS BUT DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING/LACK OF MOTIVATION. Ideas on that? Adderall rocked for the 1st week then I really started to cycle.
Do these small doses often affect your weight?
Posted by morganator on August 16, 2009, at 23:37:10
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium-Good to hear, posted by alchemy on August 16, 2009, at 22:58:18
I'm not Scott and I hope you don't take this the wrong way. I'm just curious to know if you have tried alternative ways to being better for yourself. For example, exercise, therapy, building relationships/friendships, working on your ability to form and build strong friendships/relationships, meditation, yoga, bikram yoga. I know being really depressed and agitated and anxious makes it harder to do positive things for ourselvs. I am in that position right now. If it were not for the condition of my wrecked body, I probably would not be on this board right now. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate psycho babble and what it has to offer.
If I were you I would add on a low dose of Lithium. Why Not? I mean, some life extensionists are taking it now.
I don't think lithium will do much for motivation.
How much xanax do you take? Xanax is not going to help your motivation. You are better off dumping xanax if you can, unless you just take it PRN.Sorry for the mini rant, I just think that motivation has to come from within, not from medication. There may be underlying reasons for lack of motivation that need to be addressed.
Posted by SLS on August 17, 2009, at 6:12:06
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium » floatingbridge, posted by morganator on August 16, 2009, at 21:10:53
Re: lithium
> I am hoping that at these low doses, I will get the benefits and avoid the potential kidney and thyroid issues.
One of my doctors told me that the evolution of kidney and thyroid abnormalities is NOT dosage dependent. I haven't done any research to corroborate this.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on August 17, 2009, at 6:33:18
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium-Good to hear, posted by morganator on August 16, 2009, at 23:37:10
Hi Morgan.
I can attest to the destructive power that depression has over motivation. When I have had brief antidepressant responses, I had no problems initiating activities. In fact, a few weeks ago, when I experienced a moderate response to the addition of lithium, I was already beginning to plan a trip down to the Florida keys. Man, it felt so good to be driving with the roof open with sunshine all around me. I couldn't wait to pack.
Motivation/Interest/Energy are lost to this illness. Just how much PUSHING should one person expect of another when the other person is severely depressed? Without medication, my depressive state does not allow me enough motivation to stop staring at the wall and fix my gaze on the TV. Forget about picking up the remote to change channels.
I think it helps to think of the various types and severities of depressions in terms of thresholds of functionality. I am right at the threshold of going back to the gym. These past few days, I have PUSHED myself out the door in order to walk a mile. I think if I PUSH myself, I can get in the car and drive to the gym. Once I'm there, I am hoping that momentum will allow me to begin exercising. If I were feeling any worse than I am right now, though, I would be below the threshold of being able to accomplish this.
One caveat that I try to employ for myself is to not judge another person's experience of depression against mine. Just because I can get out of bed in the morning and cook myself breakfast does not mean that others must be able to do it as well if they would only PUSH themselves hard enough.
I am tired of PUSHING.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on August 17, 2009, at 6:40:00
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2009, at 20:47:33
> Thanks Scott and Maxime,
>
> Have either of you (or anyone) heard of lithium used as a mood stabilizer for someone like, well, like me.Topamax.
If you start low and go very slow, you can probably avoid all of the cognitive side effects that people complain about.
25mg x 1 week
50mg x 1 week
75mg x 1 week
100mg x 2-4 weeks - Evaluate for need to increase the dosage.
- Scott
Posted by zana on August 17, 2009, at 9:05:22
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on August 17, 2009, at 6:40:00
Dear FB,
I have unipolar depression but took lithium as an augementer and had a terrible time on it. It made me a zombie and made my hair fall out. We're all different and it is considered the gold standard of mood stabilizers. I think you have to talk it over with your PD.
I wanted to say that I too am tormented by a lack of motivation and it is terrible. I have a faint hope that it is in part an artifact of the APs I'm taking but I really think it is part of my depression and I too am tired of pushing all the time and trying to have a "good" time. I just made plans to take my first vacation in many years and my primary feeling is I don't want to go. I just can't imagine what I'll do to have fun and I don't really want to leave my home our my stuff our my dog. How sad. Nothing in the whole world calls to me. The lack of motivation, the deadness is the worst loss for me.
Zana
Posted by floatingbridge on August 17, 2009, at 11:42:19
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium, posted by zana on August 17, 2009, at 9:05:22
Just thanks! A lot!
fb
Posted by alchemy on August 17, 2009, at 18:05:10
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium-Good to hear » morganator, posted by SLS on August 17, 2009, at 6:33:18
> I can attest to the destructive power that depression has over motivation. When I have had brief antidepressant responses, I had no problems initiating activities....
> Motivation/Interest/Energy are lost to this illness. Just how much PUSHING should one person expect of another when the other person is severely depressed? ...
>
> I think it helps to think of the various types and severities of depressions in terms of thresholds of functionality...
> I am tired of PUSHING.
>
"Pushing" is a good way to say it. I have said "make myself". And making myself do things can be depressing as well. At times I have made myself get on the treadmill & it makes me feel worse because of how miserable I am when jogging/walking. I am semi-functional but even today the strain of "pushing", getting out & still being depressed made me think of looking up how many pills to end life. 25 years with little progress sure takes a toll.
I am tired of pushing and dealing with this brain. Trying to make it through the day, but then it begins again.Scott, does the lithium still help you? What is your diagnosis?
Posted by morganator on August 17, 2009, at 18:32:26
In reply to Re: Scott-quick question on lithium-Good to hear » SLS, posted by alchemy on August 17, 2009, at 18:05:10
Sorry if I jumped to any conclusions. From your first post it sounded like you were not that depressed. It appeared as if the medications were treating your depression and you just needed a medication for motivation.
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