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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gibbons482 on August 9, 2009, at 19:07:53
I'm still hunting down the actual study cited, but has anyone ever heard of this and knows how/why it appears to work? I'm considering asking my doctor if he's heard of this and if I could try it. But wouldn't that make you hyperthyroidism (or is that not T3)?
Posted by maxime on August 9, 2009, at 19:30:43
In reply to T3 for Bipolar Depression, posted by gibbons482 on August 9, 2009, at 19:07:53
T3 is supposed to augment antidepressants. I don't know if it really does. I take T3 but for my thyroid. Synthroid, the med used for hypothyroidism is T4 and the body converts it to T3 and send it to all the organs. I'm on it combined with Synthroid because we hoped that it would help my depression. It didn't. I have BP type 2.
Having said that, I think you should try it anyway. You never know how you might react.
Good luck!
Posted by Phillipa on August 9, 2009, at 20:09:01
In reply to Re: T3 for Bipolar Depression » gibbons482, posted by maxime on August 9, 2009, at 19:30:43
I've also tried it with my synthroid. In my case since my thyroid disease is hasimotos it switches back and forth sometimes when tested hypo other times hyper. T3 according to my endo is short acting. Goggle Mary Shoman she explains a lot about the thyroid. Seems now since ranges have changed to l-2 a lot more people are hypothyroid. Maybe that is one reason such a lag time in diagnosing bipolar disorder. Phillipa
Posted by softheprairie on August 10, 2009, at 3:25:20
In reply to T3 for Bipolar Depression, posted by gibbons482 on August 9, 2009, at 19:07:53
I really like having Cytomel (T3) in my coctail to help my depression and severe fatigue. I don't have the bipolar component, though. My TSH labs have moved more towards the hyperthyroid side, but are still in the normal range. I am on a pretty high dose of it (50 mcg/day), and I do worry about my own thyroid getting too lazy from this that it stops knowing to make enough on its own, but I feel like it makes such a difference for the better for me now, and I'm in bad enough shape (on disability for my psych issues) that, so far, I believe the risks are worth it. (There can also be risk of bone loss, but I do take supplemental calcium.) I am pretty lucky that my psychiatrist will go along with my request to take this.
I just within about a week ago got a letter from my drug insurance saying that they will be changing their categorization of Cytomel in the tiers on their formulary because a generic of it just has or will soon be released. Oh, how I hope the generic is as good.
There may be some risk of it pushing one to the manic side if bipolar. I haven't read your link(s), but I would expect some to say that.
> http://bipolar.about.com/b/2009/08/07/thyroid-hormone-helps-treatment-resistant-bipolar-depression.htm
>
> I'm still hunting down the actual study cited, but has anyone ever heard of this and knows how/why it appears to work? I'm considering asking my doctor if he's heard of this and if I could try it. But wouldn't that make you hyperthyroidism (or is that not T3)?
Posted by floatingbridge on August 10, 2009, at 16:45:10
In reply to I'm really glad to have my Cytomel » gibbons482, posted by softheprairie on August 10, 2009, at 3:25:20
Softtheprarie,
Interesting. I was on 15mcg (is that the correct measurement) and I cycled all over the place. I took it three times per day (5mcg.) How do you take yours?
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on August 10, 2009, at 16:48:01
In reply to T3 for Bipolar Depression, posted by gibbons482 on August 9, 2009, at 19:07:53
Oh, I remembered--it made me hyperthyroid. My tsh was down to .24. I like it at 1-1.5. But I have hashimoto's, and maybe this would not happen to you. Interesting question.
fb
Posted by softheprairie on August 10, 2009, at 19:54:51
In reply to Re: I'm really glad to have my Cytomel » softheprairie, posted by floatingbridge on August 10, 2009, at 16:45:10
I take all 50 mcg of the Cytomel (along w/ my morning dose of my desipramine) when I wake up for the day (though for me I usually wake up for the day well after noon). I often then go back to bed for a while, or get on the computer for a while, to put off my natural inclination to get something to eat right away, since it's supposed to be taken on an empty stomach.
Oh, maybe I should add, it might be that the high dose suits me because I have a big obesity problem.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 10, 2009, at 20:31:07
In reply to Re: I'm really glad to have my Cytomel » floatingbridge, posted by softheprairie on August 10, 2009, at 19:54:51
Softtheprarie,
do you mind me asking what your tsh level is--where you like it and where it becomes almost hyperthyroid?
BTW, I've always liked your babble alias :)
fb
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on August 10, 2009, at 22:04:03
In reply to T3 for Bipolar Depression, posted by gibbons482 on August 9, 2009, at 19:07:53
If any of your endo's tell you that you are hyper because your TSH is something like 0.24 he is plain wrong. Taking T3 instantly supresses your TSH production, but that dosn't mean you are hyperthyroid. Unless you feel hyperthyroid, sweating, dramatic weight loss etc etc. then you are most like are not.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 10, 2009, at 22:17:40
In reply to Re: T3 for Bipolar Depression, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on August 10, 2009, at 22:04:03
Hi Alexander,
Well, for me, at .24 TSH I felt hyperthyroid--I felt terrible! Losing way too much weight, itching inside my skin--yuck. Much happier at 1-1.5. T3 treatment just didn't work for me--but I am curious to see how it works for others.
fb
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on August 10, 2009, at 22:39:30
In reply to Re: T3 for Bipolar Depression » Alexanderfromdenmark, posted by floatingbridge on August 10, 2009, at 22:17:40
> Hi Alexander,
>
> Well, for me, at .24 TSH I felt hyperthyroid--I felt terrible! Losing way too much weight, itching inside my skin--yuck. Much happier at 1-1.5. T3 treatment just didn't work for me--but I am curious to see how it works for others.
>
> fbYes well it was your hyperthyroid state that was your hyperthyroidism so to speak. That sounded stupid. What I mean is there are thousands if not millions of hypothyroid people being treated who have a TSH of Zero and are still hypothyroid.
Posted by softheprairie on August 11, 2009, at 1:48:25
In reply to Re: I'm really glad to have my Cytomel » softheprairie, posted by floatingbridge on August 10, 2009, at 20:31:07
> Softtheprarie,
>
> do you mind me asking what your tsh level is--where you like it and where it becomes almost hyperthyroid?
>Neither my primary care doctor nor my psychiatrist test it very often, and I guess I don't mind/don't push it, since I read a few years ago from some thyroid patient advocates who say not to go so much by the TSH, but by how you feel and a panel of several thyroid measures that my PCP and psychiatrist are not that knowledgeable about (free T4, free T3, TSH, etc.). And I am not all that inclined to try to go to an endo since I have read so many times of endos not caring about how the pateint feels, but just going by whether you are in or out of the too large "normal" range for TSH. (Well, I have been tempted to try to go to an endo to try to get a med for my diabetes that has as a known, common side effect easy weight loss, but that might piss off my PCP, and I still need to be able to count on her seeing me in general. She believes my diabetes is in good enough control w/ metformin and lifestyle things that I don't need the Byetta. But, here again, I am sort of peeved that she gives so much weight to my good A1c blood level from the lab, but not my home readings that are too high.) But, anyways, to answer your question, I'm going by memory and not entirely sure these are accurate, but I think my TSH was 0.4 on Cytomel, and I recall saying to my pdoc "that's just where I want it," and I was feeling pretty good (that is, *relative, for me,* and still unemployed and not high functioning in the world). After a while, I asked my pdoc if I could try going back to levothyroxine (T4, generic Synthroid) again, instead of the Cytomel, in an attempt to save money. I had a slow but increasing decline in mood, although, to be fair, the dose was not as high as it could have been, and if an equivalency chart I found online is accurate, the Synthroid equivalent to 50 mcg Cytomel is 200 mcg, while my pdoc only got me back to taking 150. Anyways, my lowered mood time there corresponded to a TSH of 2.5, I think it was. So I asked to go back to Cytomel, which I am still on. I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have such a cooperative psychiatrist.
> BTW, I've always liked your babble alias :)
>
> fbAwww, gee, thanks :)
Posted by SLS on August 11, 2009, at 4:47:00
In reply to Re: I'm really glad to have my Cytomel » floatingbridge, posted by softheprairie on August 11, 2009, at 1:48:25
I have bipolar depression with drug-induced mania. It is closer to being bipolar I than bipolar II. Cytomel (triiodothyronine) made me feel significantly worse. Synthroid (thyroxine), on the other hand, helped somewhat.
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on August 11, 2009, at 12:21:10
In reply to Re: I'm really glad to have my Cytomel » floatingbridge, posted by softheprairie on August 11, 2009, at 1:48:25
Thanks for your response. The thyroid thing is sooooo interesting and mysterious to me. I don't really have the head to wrap around the science aspects of it. was reading last night that thyroid can have a big role in bipolar (and I suppose many other maladies as well.) Not that I understand what that role is!
My tsh at .24 was terrible, as I said. At 2.5 I'm already feeling quite yucky. Your pdoc sounds great.
thanks!
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on August 11, 2009, at 12:22:31
In reply to Re: I'm really glad to have my Cytomel, posted by SLS on August 11, 2009, at 4:47:00
Hi Scott,
Are you hypothyroid, too? Where do you like your tsh at?
fb
Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2009, at 21:00:51
In reply to Re: I'm really glad to have my Cytomel » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on August 11, 2009, at 12:22:31
floating bridge mine is also 2.5 and feel yucky also. Any hints for getting it lower? Other than raise synthroid? Love Phillipa ps I just helped deliver my Granddauter in the hospital. Posted on social about it. I'm shellshocked even having been an RN. What articles pertaining to thyroid did you read? The endrocrine system is very complicated. T3 at 5 once a day coffed jitters. Love Phillipa
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