Shown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Hundredwaters on August 6, 2009, at 9:13:45
just started this medication after being on low dose serzone and am actually finding my sleep is a little worse with some restless legs syndrome. plus i feel a little more depressed. i imagine this is somewhat withdrawal from serzone, but i was curious how long it took for people's sleep to improve on this medication? i was expecting more off the bat. i just increased it to 50mg last night and still woke up ealry this am....
Posted by Netch on August 6, 2009, at 11:00:43
In reply to sleep on Agomelatine, posted by Hundredwaters on August 6, 2009, at 9:13:45
According to Servier the effect starts to kick in after two weeks, but some are late responders and will notice benefits first after 6-8 weeks.
Posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2009, at 13:26:30
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine, posted by Netch on August 6, 2009, at 11:00:43
That's a long time to wait for sleep. Phillipa
Posted by Sigismund on August 6, 2009, at 15:53:33
In reply to sleep on Agomelatine, posted by Hundredwaters on August 6, 2009, at 9:13:45
>just started this medication after being on low dose serzone and am actually finding my sleep is a little worse with some restless legs syndrome. plus i feel a little more depressed. i imagine this is somewhat withdrawal from serzone, but i was curious how long it took for people's sleep to improve on this medication? i was expecting more off the bat. i just increased it to 50mg last night and still woke up ealry this am....
Well, I would be the same with that pattern of dosing.
If you were to take no more than 25 or 12.5, you would find the sleep thing more or less resolved. That leaves the depression. The first night I took it I took 25 and woke up after a few hours and stayed awake all night, not sleeping until lunch time.
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on August 6, 2009, at 17:06:44
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine, posted by Sigismund on August 6, 2009, at 15:53:33
> >just started this medication after being on low dose serzone and am actually finding my sleep is a little worse with some restless legs syndrome. plus i feel a little more depressed. i imagine this is somewhat withdrawal from serzone, but i was curious how long it took for people's sleep to improve on this medication? i was expecting more off the bat. i just increased it to 50mg last night and still woke up ealry this am....
>
> Well, I would be the same with that pattern of dosing.
>
> If you were to take no more than 25 or 12.5, you would find the sleep thing more or less resolved. That leaves the depression. The first night I took it I took 25 and woke up after a few hours and stayed awake all night, not sleeping until lunch time.Does agomelatine significantly increase dopamine?
Posted by Hundredwaters on August 6, 2009, at 21:14:43
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine, posted by Sigismund on August 6, 2009, at 15:53:33
Sigismund... you lost me in your post. Are you saying that a higher dose helped or limited your sleep? And did your sleep normalize/improve after a certain amount of time - if so, how much?
thanks again...
Posted by Netch on August 7, 2009, at 10:08:54
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on August 6, 2009, at 17:06:44
> > >just started this medication after being on low dose serzone and am actually finding my sleep is a little worse with some restless legs syndrome. plus i feel a little more depressed. i imagine this is somewhat withdrawal from serzone, but i was curious how long it took for people's sleep to improve on this medication? i was expecting more off the bat. i just increased it to 50mg last night and still woke up ealry this am....
> >
> > Well, I would be the same with that pattern of dosing.
> >
> > If you were to take no more than 25 or 12.5, you would find the sleep thing more or less resolved. That leaves the depression. The first night I took it I took 25 and woke up after a few hours and stayed awake all night, not sleeping until lunch time.
>
> Does agomelatine significantly increase dopamine?Agomelatine (5-HT2C blockade) raises adrenergic and dopaminergic transmission in frontal cortex.
Posted by Sigismund on August 7, 2009, at 15:20:51
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine, posted by Hundredwaters on August 6, 2009, at 21:14:43
Well, it's not necessarily as straightforward as one might think. It as, as you know, an agonist at melatonin receptors and an antagonist at 5ht2c.
So, when you take it you *do* get tired.
But if you take too much (whatever that might mean) the 5ht2c antagonism is going to somehow or other increase the dopamine feeling. I don't know anything about how that happens, but it can be felt obviously enough.
That first night I mentioned, when I woke up after a couple of hours, I thought 'boy, smart drug', meaning it felt humane and not bad for me in the way I expect psych drugs to be.
My idea is this....eventually, after a few months, your body will be used to it to a certain extent. At that point it is *very easy* to raise the dose. I wouldn't be in a hurry to raise it too early. Doubtless you want the AD effect? It has to be said that the AD effect off agomelatine is mild. It's just that (apart from the liver enzyme thing) there is no downside (that I am aware of).
So, yes, it does help sleep. But that help is to be found at a dose where your body does not consider enough to go making more dopamine available or whatever that thing is.
Does that make it somewhat clearer?
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on August 7, 2009, at 18:57:14
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine, posted by Sigismund on August 7, 2009, at 15:20:51
> Well, it's not necessarily as straightforward as one might think. It as, as you know, an agonist at melatonin receptors and an antagonist at 5ht2c.
>
> So, when you take it you *do* get tired.
>
> But if you take too much (whatever that might mean) the 5ht2c antagonism is going to somehow or other increase the dopamine feeling. I don't know anything about how that happens, but it can be felt obviously enough.
>
> That first night I mentioned, when I woke up after a couple of hours, I thought 'boy, smart drug', meaning it felt humane and not bad for me in the way I expect psych drugs to be.
>
> My idea is this....eventually, after a few months, your body will be used to it to a certain extent. At that point it is *very easy* to raise the dose. I wouldn't be in a hurry to raise it too early. Doubtless you want the AD effect? It has to be said that the AD effect off agomelatine is mild. It's just that (apart from the liver enzyme thing) there is no downside (that I am aware of).
>
> So, yes, it does help sleep. But that help is to be found at a dose where your body does not consider enough to go making more dopamine available or whatever that thing is.
>
> Does that make it somewhat clearer?Sorry to hear the AD effect of agomelatine is mild. I'm not looking for something that will make me high(though that would be cool), but I don't hope that agomelatine is just a sleeping pill with a mild AD effect.
However, I do believe that AD meds first should "do know harm" which the majority of AD's don't and I'm glad to see agomelatine on the market.
Posted by hundredwaters on August 7, 2009, at 19:54:53
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine, posted by Sigismund on August 7, 2009, at 15:20:51
what do you do for a stronger AD effect?
Posted by Phillipa on August 7, 2009, at 20:49:24
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine, posted by hundredwaters on August 7, 2009, at 19:54:53
Also what if anxiety is your major problem does it work? The mild antidepressant effect couldn't hurt. Benzos okay with it do you need less? Phillipa
Posted by hundredwaters on August 7, 2009, at 21:02:25
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine, posted by Phillipa on August 7, 2009, at 20:49:24
also - can you briefly summarize which and why you think the diff. classes of ADs are harmful.... sorry if this is a lot to ask....
Posted by hundredwaters on August 7, 2009, at 21:12:48
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine, posted by Phillipa on August 7, 2009, at 20:49:24
also - can you briefly summarize which and why you think the diff. classes of ADs are harmful.... sorry if this is a lot to ask....
Posted by Sigismund on August 8, 2009, at 0:35:47
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine, posted by hundredwaters on August 7, 2009, at 19:54:53
>what do you do for a stronger AD effect?
That's a reasonable enough question to which you might feel there is an answer available to us here and now.
Tell me if you find it.
Hang on, I also take afobazol, an OTC drug from Russia. It seems alright, better than we get in the anglosphere by miles.
Deprenyl's no good with it. Hydergine is OK. Tianeptine I wouldn't bother with but I know someone who did. Trivastal I wouldn't want to try...too dopaminergic. You could try an ultra low dose of an SSRI? I dunno, I think there is no solution to be found for people like me from these drugs, so I'm not much use.
Posted by Sigismund on August 8, 2009, at 0:42:19
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine, posted by hundredwaters on August 7, 2009, at 21:12:48
>also - can you briefly summarize which and why you think the diff. classes of ADs are harmful.... sorry if this is a lot to ask.
Sorry, is this a question to me?
If so, I have nothing to say. Just what everyone says all the time......drugs are bad. But we didn't start taking them for no reason either.
When I read here that someone was on a really useful combo and their doctor took them off it and ever since they have not felt decent....well, what are we to think? These are powerful drugs being used on fragile minds. I'm certainly not criticising people here when I say this.
So, in view of all that, and in view of the fact that I've knocked myself around too much in this life, I try to be conservative about drug use, especially the ones for which I can see no upside.
Posted by Hundredwaters on August 8, 2009, at 2:41:30
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine » hundredwaters, posted by Sigismund on August 8, 2009, at 0:35:47
hmmm... i'm seduced by your answer. i'm interested in afobazol - i will have to look that one up. im fairly new to these boards, but it seems people's negative opinions are largely limited to the serotonergic reuptake inhibitors in terms of causing some sort of lasting, post-AD syndrome, but not others... Am I wrong about this? I have only briefly been on one.
Just curious if you have an opinion of plain old cytomel... or magnesium, especially transdermal magnesium as that seems to play a role in the process that causes lasting impairment. Any opinions on the folate-cycle treatments - SAMe and L-methylfolate?
I do wonder if people overly attribute negative outcomes to medications over the pathology of depression. I think it's growing clear that depression is neurodegenerative in many ways and causes all sorts of negative immunological and endocrinological changes. although in looking at the post-ssri sexual dysfunction syndrome, there is clearly something going on. I could imagine that some of these drugs could potentially net worsen the state of the hippocampus if they were withdrawn and cause further trouble with the HPA axis and whatever other hormones are involved....?
I am certainly curious what you mean by 'people like me'?
Posted by Sigismund on August 8, 2009, at 15:25:08
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine, posted by Hundredwaters on August 8, 2009, at 2:41:30
Here is what googletranslate does to Russian....
I have no idea if it is meaningful. It is certainly very funny.
Afobazol - anksiolitik selective, having no analogues in the world. It differs from benzodiazepinovyh tranquilizers lack of sedation, miorelaksatsii, memory disorders, and dependence syndrome cancel. Afobazol possesses neuroprotective properties, which makes it promising for use in a wide range of psychiatric and neurological diseases.
NCI under contract aims to create injection dosage form afobazola, the development of scientific and technical documentation, the study of the spectrum combined anxiolytic and neyroprotektornoy activity in various models, the study of molecular mechanisms for the implementation of these effects
A study of pharmacological properties neyroprotektornyh afobazola in experiments in vitro and in vivo using models of ischemic and hemorrhagic stroke. Are mezhlineynye differences in the change in response to the stress levels of brain neurotrophic factor BDNF in animals with different phenotype emotional stress reactions. We show that afobazol (5 mg / kg) prevents the reduction of BDNF, and its effect is more pronounced in Animals with genetically determined response of expressed fear. In this series of experiments confirmed hypotheses about the combined anxiolytic and neyroprotektornyh properties afobazola. Neyroprotektorny effect afobazola proven models of oxidative stress and toxicity glumatnoy in culture cells.Neyroprotektorny effect afobazola confirmed in models of ischemic and hemorrhagic stroke in a wide range of doses. Optimal regimes of introduction, including the effectiveness during the first application within the therapeutic window.
It is shown that afobazol causes a significant increase in cerebral blood flow in rats that had transient global cerebral ischemia, and increases survival of animals under conditions of ischemia caused by occlusion of common carotid arteries.
When studying the metabolism found that after oral introduction afobazol exposed to effects of «first-pass through the liver». Are metabolites afobazola.In pharmaceutical research developed injection form afobazola, drafted FAK in substance and «Afobazola Solution for injection 1%».
A full range of preclinical safety studies injection dosage form afobazola (1% solution).
prospects for the use of medication for acute violations of the cerebral circulation and in the recovery period to reduce the expression kupirovaniya neurologic symptoms and anxiety disorder. The directions of the development of a protocol of clinical study in patients with ischemic disorders of cerebral circulation 1% solution afobazola - 1 ml, in ampoules, as anksiolitika with neyroprotektornymi properties. Continue to develop promising to introduce afobazola in practice in a new dosage form as a means of treating stroke and neurodegenerative diseases.
Thus, from a contract R & D results confirmed that the developed drugs are able to not only address the symptoms of anxiety disorder, and had a key effect on the neurochemical and molecular mechanisms of emotional-stress reaction. These drugs do not cause side effects that contribute to reducing or impairing the performance or purposeful activity, and may be used in the pharmacology of human health and in emergency medicine.Development and introduction of drugs will increase the efficiency of pharmacotherapy of various pathological conditions, including neurodegenerative diseases, which are based on stressors disorders, including their vnegospitalnom treatment that will also be an important contribution to the prevention of common diseases, severe somatic and mental pathology.
Posted by jrbecker76 on August 10, 2009, at 10:23:42
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine, posted by Sigismund on August 6, 2009, at 15:53:33
Don't underestimate Serzone (Nefazadone) withdrawal. I used to think that it was somewhat benign in that category, but after many years of taking it on/off and changing dosages, I can say that withdrawing is not a smooth process.
As for Agomelatine, I also noticed that it made my sleep worse at first. However, it started to even out after the first week or so. Honestly though, for me, it was never the best hypnotic. However, I did find that it produced some antidepressant effects.
JB
Posted by morganator on August 14, 2009, at 2:30:24
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine))Hundredwaters, posted by jrbecker76 on August 10, 2009, at 10:23:42
It's not supposed to be hypnotic I don't think. You are supposed to fall asleep easier though. The key is that you get sounder sleep and feel better all day long.
So are you still taking it??? I am very interested in about agomelatine. I want to add it to Zoloft. I would have to order it from Europe though.
Anyone else out there want to share their experiences with Agomelatine?
Posted by Jimmyboy on August 16, 2009, at 10:59:48
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine))Hundredwaters » jrbecker76, posted by morganator on August 14, 2009, at 2:30:24
I would also like to hear some more about people's experiences with Ago, particularly if any of you suffer from anxiety/panic - how well has this helped with these symptoms?
Posted by morganator on August 17, 2009, at 0:22:30
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine))Hundredwaters, posted by Jimmyboy on August 16, 2009, at 10:59:48
BUMP!
Posted by jrbecker76 on August 17, 2009, at 16:49:53
In reply to Re: sleep on Agomelatine))Hundredwaters » jrbecker76, posted by morganator on August 14, 2009, at 2:30:24
> It's not supposed to be hypnotic I don't think. You are supposed to fall asleep easier though. The key is that you get sounder sleep and feel better all day long.
>
> So are you still taking it??? I am very interested in about agomelatine. I want to add it to Zoloft. I would have to order it from Europe though.
>
> Anyone else out there want to share their experiences with Agomelatine?No, I am not taking it anymore. I was in an clinical study for it. I took it for a total of twenty-six weeks at a dose of mostly 50 mg.
This is the end of the thread.
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