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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 1, 2009, at 10:29:02
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by linkadge on July 1, 2009, at 10:20:27
Well, I always consider the corollary, for context. How would it be if your psychiatrist told you to see the psychologist, but not to do anything he suggested?
I didn't even get into the subject of detox, which is the biggest health fraud in the last twenty years.
Lar
Posted by linkadge on July 1, 2009, at 10:58:48
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by Larry Hoover on July 1, 2009, at 10:29:02
Well, this guy was a complete nutjob. He went on for about 10 minutes about the tends of thousands of environmental toxins and the role they play in the development of depression.
I said to him, my brother has been living in the same house and eating the same food, breathing the same air for the duration of my life. He shows no signs of mental health issues.
I forget his response, but he suggested it was then due to an alergy. He suggested I could get off SSRI's with the help of raw sunflower seeds.
Its not that there isn't a place for alternative views. I am not against them myself. I was just a little suprised that this was who I got referred to from my GP.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2009, at 11:02:20
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by linkadge on July 1, 2009, at 10:58:48
Link sounds like you have the same kind of luck finding docs and therapists as me. Not good. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on July 1, 2009, at 13:30:09
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by Larry Hoover on July 1, 2009, at 10:29:02
Hi Link,
I think it could be negative situation, the pdoc and therapist not working in some accord. For me, I'm already conflicted. I don't need more.
add my two cents to LH's
Posted by rskontos on July 1, 2009, at 22:54:01
In reply to Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by linkadge on July 1, 2009, at 8:17:19
I am not sure if it is common. I did have one therapist that was anti-meds but she was just like yours, unable to prescribe them. She also brought God into the picture so I found another therapist who is also my p-doc. He isn't pushy with meds but he will suggest and help when I ask for stuff. He does think that there is a place for supplements etc.
I think you walked into some kind of inner struggle the therapist has going on. But I agree with Larry you need to tell the p-doc and let him take it up with the therapist if they are supposedly working together. Must not be harmoniously.
rsk
Posted by morganpmiller on July 1, 2009, at 23:44:51
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med? » linkadge, posted by rskontos on July 1, 2009, at 22:54:01
My therapist was pretty anti-medication. She never told me to get of Zoloft when I was taking it, but she did send the message indirectly that she thought I might be better off without it. I am very intuitive and pick up on things. I usually know when someone feels a certain way about something without them having to come out and tell me directly. She did say at one point that she thought it was possible that zoloft was creating some of my anxiety. I later found out that this was so far from the truth. I am sure that may be the case with some people, but for me, zoloft relieved much of my anxiety, just not all of it. So, when I was finally able to get off Zoloft, my therapist said she was so proud of me. She said I looked healthier. I could tell how excited she was. Five months later I started to become severely depressed. She said it was part of the therapeutic process and I would be fine(I actually believe in this and I still do to this day, despite what happened to me). I remember she even said that she didn't think this "necessary state" of depression may not have happened if I stayed on Zoloft. Well, 3 weeks later I began to go into a mixed episode. I was desperate to get relief and did not understand what was happening at the time. After not being able to find a p doc to see, I went to my general practitioner's P.A. and she prescribed me lexapro. 2 days later she prescribed me xanax. I went into a full fledged major mixed episode. I personally think the major mixed episode would have gotten bad without the lexapro and xanax.
There were other events/circumstances besides not being on Zoloft that contributed to this perfect storm sending me into my mixed episode. I do think that staying on Zoloft would have protected me and made me less vulnerable to my brain lighting up like a fire storm the way it did. I' still pissed off at my therapist for not recognizing that staying on Zoloft would have been healthier for me than getting off Zoloft. I think she acted very irresponsibly. No therapist should be anti medication unless it is truly interfering with health and quality of life. It's crazy, all those years she new me and not once did she mention the possibility that I was bipolar. She knew how sensitive I was, how I couldn't drink coffee or energy drinks. She knew about times in the past, and saw me during some of them, that could have easily been interpreted as mixed states. When I finally went to the hospital and they said I was having a major mixed manic episode and I needed Depakote and Zyprexa to take me out of it, I called her on the phone and she said,"You are NOT bipolar". She has been practicing for over 20 years, she has a Phd., and she does forensic psychology work for Fairfax, Co. police just outside of D.C. WTF!!!!!!
That's my little rant story about how a therapist that does not believe in medication can influence their patient in a way that may be very harmful to their mental health. I know, it's a bit ironic.
Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2009, at 8:06:11
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med? » linkadge, posted by rskontos on July 1, 2009, at 22:54:01
I am not really against *some* of the things he suggested, but he just went too far in suggesting he knew the causes of depression. I really wasn't sure what he was getting at too for instance
He said, "do you know the link between electropulution and DNA damage,"
I said, "well there are some studies that suggest a link, I use a cell phone only when necessary"
He said "It doesn't matter, electropolution is all around us you can't escape it."
I'm like WTF, ok so even if there was a link, this does not prove electropolution is a cause of clinical depression. In addition what good would it do to tell me about a risk that I cannot avoid.
He was kind of a nutbar.
Linkadge
Posted by rskontos on July 2, 2009, at 11:04:48
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2009, at 8:06:11
> I am not really against *some* of the things he suggested, but he just went too far in suggesting he knew the causes of depression. I really wasn't sure what he was getting at too for instance
>
> He said, "do you know the link between electropulution and DNA damage,"
>
> I said, "well there are some studies that suggest a link, I use a cell phone only when necessary"
>
> He said "It doesn't matter, electropolution is all around us you can't escape it."
>
> I'm like WTF, ok so even if there was a link, this does not prove electropolution is a cause of clinical depression. In addition what good would it do to tell me about a risk that I cannot avoid.
>
> He was kind of a nutbar.
>
> LinkadgeYou know Linkadge, he sounds kinda of paranoid. The statement "It doesn't matter, electropolution is all around us you can't escape it" has that paranoid ring to it.
He does sound like a nutbar.
Where did he find the 'link". There is so much information out there that it is hard to sift through. Depression itself I would venture has many causes and it will probably take years if ever to figure it all out.
Did you tell him he went too far. Sometimes I tell mine when he goes off around a bender and I can't follow him. Sometimes I think they over think things.
rsk
Posted by sdb on July 2, 2009, at 12:30:09
In reply to Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by linkadge on July 1, 2009, at 8:17:19
> I have seen a few therapists and they all seem to be very anti-medication. The last one talked about doctors and drug companies being corrupt and how all my problems are due to enivornmental toxins, lack of omega-3, electropolution, murcury toxicity, etc. They also talk about how drugs are toxic, addictive etc, and that I should go on detox programs etc.
>
> Personally, I just think that the therapist is jealous that he isn't a medical doctor and can't prescribe medications.
>
> I realize I think the same way in some regards, but this guy was very extreme.
>
> What suprised me too is that this last therapist was essentially working in conjunction with a psychiatrist in the building. The two weren't exactly sending the same message.
>
> My question: is it common for therapists (non doctor) to be really "out there" in terms of their views on things? Is this ok if he is working for a psychiatrist? Should I mention it to the psychiatrist - that this guy essentially advocates ditching meds and going on extreme diet and detox program?
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>I don't think its productive in a positive sense to be anyway 'anti' or acting in a ideological manner. But nevertheless it is legitimate to question if those 'chemical medications' really are that good what the industry wants us to believe.
Posted by Meltingpot on July 2, 2009, at 15:31:07
In reply to Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by linkadge on July 1, 2009, at 8:17:19
In my experience in the UK, the therapists have actually been more for Meds than the NHS psychiatrists I have seen.
The last two NHS psychiatrists I have seen have been trying to push "mindfulness" and "acceptance" down my throat rather than meds, whilst the therapist I was seeing was actually encouraging me to take Zyprexa more often.
In the UK "Mindfullness" seems to be the buzz word lately and it is starting to piss me off!
Denise
Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2009, at 17:25:36
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by Meltingpot on July 2, 2009, at 15:31:07
I think all tools should be considered. However, if one is going to get all preachy they should have some evidence to back up claims.
Linkadge
Posted by morganpmiller on July 2, 2009, at 20:54:58
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2009, at 8:06:11
He definitely sounds like a bit of nutbar
Posted by Sigismund on July 3, 2009, at 1:55:53
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2009, at 8:06:11
I know a doctor who wraps himself in a special kind of blanket at night to keep all the radiation out.
Doesn't sound odd to me per se, but what do I know?
Posted by Sigismund on July 3, 2009, at 1:59:19
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2009, at 17:25:36
Operating a mobile (cell) phone is beyond me (cognitive, emotional and moral issues).
So for that matter is growing tomatoes.
Posted by sowhysosad on July 3, 2009, at 5:55:34
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by Meltingpot on July 2, 2009, at 15:31:07
Yeah, my friend's therapist in Scotland is an advocate of the all-round approach of meds+therapy.
On the other hand, my NHS pdoc refused me meds last time which caused my depression to worsen, and if I hear those three little letters "CBT" again I'll ****ing scream.
> In my experience in the UK, the therapists have actually been more for Meds than the NHS psychiatrists I have seen.
>
> The last two NHS psychiatrists I have seen have been trying to push "mindfulness" and "acceptance" down my throat rather than meds, whilst the therapist I was seeing was actually encouraging me to take Zyprexa more often.
>
> In the UK "Mindfullness" seems to be the buzz word lately and it is starting to piss me off!
>
> Denise
Posted by manic666 on July 3, 2009, at 7:37:02
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by sowhysosad on July 3, 2009, at 5:55:34
my theropist said p docs no f. all , as does no one else about mental illness,they sort of look over there spec,s at you, an say how are you today mannic,as if to say im sorry i no f all but that dont matter try these meds , they may make you better ,but then again they may kill you,.nnnnnnnnnnext patient please
Posted by 49er on July 3, 2009, at 8:18:49
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2009, at 8:06:11
I said, "well there are some studies that suggest a link, I use a cell phone only when necessary"
>
> He said "It doesn't matter, electropolution is all around us you can't escape it."
>
> I'm like WTF, ok so even if there was a link, this does not prove electropolution is a cause of clinical depression. In addition what good would it do to tell me about a risk that I cannot avoid.
>
> He was kind of a nutbar.
>
> LinkadgeHi Linkadge,
This guy sounds like this reflexologist who was conducting demonstrations while we were waiting to hear a speaker.
I don't believe the stuff for a minute but was curious to see what she would do.
She claimed my blackberry causes harm even though like you, I only use it sparingly to make calls.
I was like, "Stop with this nonsense". She was also a nutbar.
I definitely feel for you.
49er
Posted by Sigismund on July 3, 2009, at 14:51:59
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by sowhysosad on July 3, 2009, at 5:55:34
> The last two NHS psychiatrists I have seen have been trying to push "mindfulness" and "acceptance" down my throat rather than meds,
That's like mine too.
Long experience with these drugs must have (rightly or wrongly) given them reservations about their use.
Posted by Zana on July 3, 2009, at 16:28:03
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by Sigismund on July 3, 2009, at 14:51:59
I am a therapist (psychologist) and a patient and long time med user. I think the guy you saw sounds nuts. I think there is little question that some depression have a biological component and that medication treats that part. I agree with Larry that all the detox/health food stuff is mostly crap. Eating well is important but it is not a substitute for medication for a biologically based illnes.
Thats my two cents worth.
Zana
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 3, 2009, at 19:51:11
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by Meltingpot on July 2, 2009, at 15:31:07
> The last two NHS psychiatrists I have seen have been trying to push "mindfulness" and "acceptance" down my throat rather than meds, whilst the therapist I was seeing was actually encouraging me to take Zyprexa more often.
I don't mean to be provocative, but I believe mindfulness to be a very useful tool in my particular toolkit.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 3, 2009, at 19:53:33
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by Sigismund on July 3, 2009, at 1:59:19
> Operating a mobile (cell) phone is beyond me (cognitive, emotional and moral issues).
> So for that matter is growing tomatoes.Dude! Keep the earthworms happy, and your 'maters will be happy. You don't need to be emotional or moral about that. They'll look after that for themselves.
Lar
Posted by bearfan on July 4, 2009, at 4:42:58
In reply to Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by linkadge on July 1, 2009, at 8:17:19
I think it can be common; although keep in mind that most people don't need strong medications and others should only be on it short term. Plus ask anyone that has been on antidepressants for long periods of time (ie years) and putting up with the side effects and the depersonalization feelings, sexual dysfunctions, etc., just sucks after awhile. I would try alternative treatments first and use the meds only as a last resort (all other treatments failed)
Posted by sowhysosad on July 4, 2009, at 6:06:12
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by Sigismund on July 3, 2009, at 14:51:59
> > The last two NHS psychiatrists I have seen have been trying to push "mindfulness" and "acceptance" down my throat rather than meds,
>
> That's like mine too.
> Long experience with these drugs must have (rightly or wrongly) given them reservations about their use.Nah, I just think that NHS policy dictates that they have to be seen to be offering a multpronged approach.
Still, I was amazed at the difference between my GP's and pdoc. The GP's would happily prescribe meds - often my own choice - whereas it's taken me 3 visits to get a scrip from the pdoc.
Posted by linkadge on July 5, 2009, at 19:09:25
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med?, posted by bearfan on July 4, 2009, at 4:42:58
>I would try alternative treatments first and use >the meds only as a last resort (all other >treatments failed)
I agree. However, it seems incresingly difficult nowadays (for some reason) to convince somebody that you may actually need medications (whether short or long term). Because everybody and their uncle is on an SSRI people just think they are one of those things that nobody needs.
You try and say, "yes but I really need the medications". And they're like "yeah sure, you and 50 million others"
There is also this assumption that the patient is naive and hasn't exhausted other possiblilties.
Linkadge
Posted by Meltingpot on July 9, 2009, at 15:16:13
In reply to Re: Is it common for therapists to be anti-med? » Meltingpot, posted by Larry Hoover on July 3, 2009, at 19:51:11
Hi Larry,
It's good that you find mindfulness helpful. I really wanted to find it helpful too but to be honest it didn't seem to change anything but then it's not meant to is it? The whole idea of mindfulness is to be accepting and that in itself is supposed to be part of the cure.
I came off all my medication for a while and I thought right I'm going to just lie here and accept the way I feel and just be conscious of my thoughts as they ran though my head without actually reacting to them. After an hour of doing that I just felt more and more frustrated, bored and edgy.
The thing is I could never accept being like I am and feeling as I do today. Part of me loses hope year by year that I'm ever going to get better but I could just never sit back and accept my fate. I want to try anything and everything to get better even if it means taking risks.
To be honest, when I'm at my worst the idea that something like mindfulness could be helpful feels like an insult, just like if somebody suggested aromotherapy or homeopathy. I mean you wouldn't tell somebody having a heart attack to take some herbs would you???
How do you find mindfulness helpful and how long did you have to practice it before you felt it had made a difference?
Denise
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