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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by SLS on June 2, 2009, at 17:31:48
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » Cherry Carver, posted by RobertDavid on June 2, 2009, at 14:59:32
> Somehow I suspect a lot of people never find the right medicine because they tried it as generic when brand might have worked, but that's just my take.
I never thought of that, but you are absolutely right.
> I'm flushing the generic down the toilet where it belongs. There should be some sort of better system regulating generics as far as I'm conserned.I'm with you.
I recently was switched from brand name Lamictal to generic lamotrigine. I lost the benefit and relapsed into depression. When I restarted the name brand, I recovered.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on June 2, 2009, at 20:30:51
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » RobertDavid, posted by SLS on June 2, 2009, at 17:31:48
I know it's true. Life is too short to try and cut costs with your health. Phillipa
Posted by Neal on June 3, 2009, at 21:22:31
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on June 2, 2009, at 20:30:51
It's all interesting, but what answer do you have for those who pay out-of-pocket for their meds?
Posted by Phillipa on June 3, 2009, at 21:43:16
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas?, posted by Neal on June 3, 2009, at 21:22:31
Just my opinion if only one med then do it. Phillipa
Posted by RobertDavid on June 4, 2009, at 0:08:09
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas?, posted by Neal on June 3, 2009, at 21:22:31
Unfortunately I pay out of pocket and am currently unemployed, but I can't function on generic so I just have to do without to buy brand. I wish generic worked for me, but I've tried and failed twice now. I'm two days back on brand and feeling better.
Posted by rollingthunder on June 4, 2009, at 16:22:57
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » Neal, posted by RobertDavid on June 4, 2009, at 0:08:09
_
It would seem, just from a legal view, that those generic makers would be taking a big chance by screwing with the formula. Because anyone could take a pill and have it analyzed by a chemist and compared to brand name.
That could be a basis for a law-suite running into 8-9 figures. Why would they take the chance? Admittedly their standards may be lower, perhaps the ingredients aren't as fresh or whatever.
I take generic and haven't had problems, but maybe I'm too dumb to know the difference.
_
Posted by RobertDavid on June 4, 2009, at 16:57:50
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » RobertDavid, posted by rollingthunder on June 4, 2009, at 16:22:57
It's my understading generics are allowed a variance by the FDA something like 20% +/- potency(not positive about that fact, but no doubt there is a difference). I don't think just being generic is bad and there are probably many meds that generic differences from brand are not issues. I've heard that many of the generics are made in different countries and can't imagine how they can all be tested for potency, release systems and other ingredients or that their standards for manufacturing would be the same as brand. All I know is my experence with klonopin generic, on two occasions has been a bust. I have a friend who had the same problem switching from brand zoloft to generic, within a week was having big issues and her doctor told her to go back on brand which solved the problem. I really can't afford brand right now but unfortunately I can't function without it.....
Posted by Phillipa on June 4, 2009, at 19:37:15
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » rollingthunder, posted by RobertDavid on June 4, 2009, at 16:57:50
Rob that's wonderful that you are so much better. Love Phillipa ps now you can function again!!!!
Posted by Cherry Carver on June 4, 2009, at 20:34:24
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas?, posted by Neal on June 3, 2009, at 21:22:31
I pay out of pocket for Klonopin. I'm not insured OR wealthy. I just have to do it because for me, there is no alternative. Generic clonazepam is terrible stuff.
Posted by qbsbrown on June 4, 2009, at 22:02:49
In reply to Re: Withdrawing from Klonopin - Ideas? » Neal, posted by Cherry Carver on June 4, 2009, at 20:34:24
I'm finding myself in the same situation.
I'm weaning off of valium, but am taking the generic, and it's like a sugar/placebo pill.
Brand name is SUPER expensive.
I don't know what the hell to do.
Perhaps it's the generic version, Mylan, that sucks.I did fine on ivxx teva generic klonopin, and fine on sandoz generic xanax.
Generic Ativan was terrible.Maybe just switch generics?
Brian
Posted by Sigismund on June 5, 2009, at 17:48:17
In reply to brand name valium, SO expensive, posted by qbsbrown on June 4, 2009, at 22:02:49
How much does it cost you for brand name Valium?
It's around A$6 for 50 tablets here.
Posted by RobertDavid on June 5, 2009, at 17:57:43
In reply to Re: brand name valium, SO expensive » qbsbrown, posted by Sigismund on June 5, 2009, at 17:48:17
2 days back on brand klonopin, felt much better switching from generic. Problem is that while on generic I had NO alcohol craving and nothing to drink. 2 days back on brand and last night went out drinking. I got to think there is some conncection to klonopin and alcohol cravings. I'm going to start to lower my dose down from 2mgs and see if that helps. Maybe I should just try to tough out generic. Not sure what to do at the moment....
Posted by Phillipa on June 5, 2009, at 19:57:47
In reply to Re: brand klonopin, posted by RobertDavid on June 5, 2009, at 17:57:43
Rob how long were you dry? Maybe just a relapse any triggers? Sorry that happened. Seriously. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on June 5, 2009, at 20:41:55
In reply to Re: brand name valium, SO expensive » qbsbrown, posted by Sigismund on June 5, 2009, at 17:48:17
Sigi about $200 for a month's supply. Love PJ
Posted by Sigismund on June 6, 2009, at 0:52:11
In reply to Re: brand name valium, SO expensive » Sigismund, posted by Phillipa on June 5, 2009, at 20:41:55
Thank God for a bit of socialism.
Posted by Cherry Carver on June 6, 2009, at 17:57:23
In reply to Re: brand klonopin, posted by RobertDavid on June 5, 2009, at 17:57:43
> 2 days back on brand klonopin, felt much better switching from generic. Problem is that while on generic I had NO alcohol craving and nothing to drink. 2 days back on brand and last night went out drinking. I got to think there is some conncection to klonopin and alcohol cravings. I'm going to start to lower my dose down from 2mgs and see if that helps. Maybe I should just try to tough out generic. Not sure what to do at the moment....
Did you start to panic while on the generic? I find that during early and full-blown stages of panic I have no desire to drink at all. It's probably a survival response (on my part, anyway).
Your physical relief may have triggered the craving. It's like getting home from a bad day at work--you need something to ease the stress you've been through.
Posted by RobertDavid on June 6, 2009, at 18:31:52
In reply to Re: brand klonopin » RobertDavid, posted by Cherry Carver on June 6, 2009, at 17:57:23
While on generic I was not myself, edgy, but trying to get my mind and body healthy. I was eating good, working out, but social anxiety was creeping back in. So when I went back on brand, same dose and immediately felt the kick, like it was so much more potent. It did reduce my anxiety, less anxious but in another way I was kind of in a drugged state, like my body needed to adjust to the more potent dose brand seemed to be for me. I know when I had anxiety before klonopin years ago I didn't drink at so I suspect theres potentially a link to cravings from not being anxious as well as taking the klonopin itself, perhaps it's just unique to me. After watching a show on CNN I'm considering adding naltrexone. If anyone has any experience with that I'd like to hear. Anyway, I've dropped my dose to 1.75 klonopinand am going to try to keep working my way down and see what happens.
Posted by yxibow on June 7, 2009, at 4:11:20
In reply to Re: brand klonopin » Cherry Carver, posted by RobertDavid on June 6, 2009, at 18:31:52
I just don't see the clamor for the pretty tablets with the V cut out in it.
The math is simple... about $4 a pill or 15c a pill, for example.
Being so long on any benzodiazepine can make another one seem like a "sugar pill".
I still think there is a lot of suggestibility.
I -never- started when I first took diazepam on brand name Valium, nor alprazolam (Xanax), nor lorazepam (Ativan), nor temazepam (Restoril), nor flurazepam (Dalmane -- quite a scary and very potent sleep agent in my opinion way beyond Restoril).
If the 'effectiveness' of generic benzodiazepines are not enough, why not have the dose prescribed a bit higher?
Yes, I'm sure I'd like to see what the pretty little V is, but I'd get knocked the highest (really high) copay if they even approved it at all.
Anyhow, just my opinion.-- Jay
Posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2009, at 21:08:46
In reply to Re: brand klonopin, posted by yxibow on June 7, 2009, at 4:11:20
I did as in 1974 generic valium wasn't available it worked very well and quickly. Add the miltown and I recovered quickly was raising three kids, running a business, choreographing dance routines for the business, also doing Shaklee as a business, going through a divorce, and getting strait A's and on the Deans list in nursing school. Never upped the doses. Actually cold turkeyed miltown just didn't need it anymore. No withdrawal at all. So it's different for us all. What year did generics start in? This was even before SSRI's existed. Boy I'm old. Love Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on June 7, 2009, at 21:45:48
In reply to Re: brand klonopin » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2009, at 21:08:46
What year did generics start in? This was even before SSRI's existed. Boy I'm old. Love Phillipa
One article:
http://www.ahealthyme.com/topic/generichistory
Reference:
http://www.nihcm.org/~nihcmor/pdf/GenericsPrimer.pdf
Posted by Cherry Carver on June 7, 2009, at 21:59:36
In reply to Re: brand klonopin, posted by yxibow on June 7, 2009, at 4:11:20
> I just don't see the clamor for the pretty tablets with the V cut out in it.
>
> The math is simple... about $4 a pill or 15c a pill, for example.
>
> Being so long on any benzodiazepine can make another one seem like a "sugar pill".
>
> I still think there is a lot of suggestibility.
>
>
> I -never- started when I first took diazepam on brand name Valium, nor alprazolam (Xanax), nor lorazepam (Ativan), nor temazepam (Restoril), nor flurazepam (Dalmane -- quite a scary and very potent sleep agent in my opinion way beyond Restoril).
>
>
> If the 'effectiveness' of generic benzodiazepines are not enough, why not have the dose prescribed a bit higher?
>
>
> Yes, I'm sure I'd like to see what the pretty little V is, but I'd get knocked the highest (really high) copay if they even approved it at all.
>
>
> Anyhow, just my opinion.
>
> -- JayYour sugar pill analogy is close, but it isn't just the dosage that's screwy. There is something wrong with the way generic clonazepam tablets are made. I took more than one, thinking more would equal the original. It didn't work; I felt foggy and jittery. Bottom line: the cheap chemicals in generic clonazepam are hard on my nervous system.
But that's just me. I tend to be incredibly sensitive to drugs in general. Before Klonopin, I took Ativan (the generic, ironically), Restoril, Valium, and Dalmane. To each drug I had a different reaction. Valium made me sleepy. Lorazepam made me suicidal. I had hallucinations after taking one dose of Dalmane. It's one hell of a powerful pill and scary indeed!
I'm with you on the money factor, but I can't afford to mess with my sanity. Believe me, I would LOVE to see a generic clonazepam that works. The price of the brand name is getting ridiculous.
Posted by RobertDavid on June 7, 2009, at 23:21:05
In reply to Re: brand klonopin, posted by Cherry Carver on June 7, 2009, at 21:59:36
I hate the "K" in brand klonopin pills. It makes it difficult to cut up, they are not scored. Even with a pill cutter it breaks up typically and usually makes uneven pieces especially when you try to quarter them. I wish generic worked for me, but it doesn't.
Several attempts to switch at the same dose and within a week the same result. Just feeling off, anxious with insomnia and on. Seems to me that it's more than brand being more potent, that they are released differently or have other ingredients, simply not the same product.
Worse yet there are several companies that make generic. Sometimes the 1mg pill is blue, sometimes it's green, they probably come from different countries, certainly different manufacturers. The FDA doesn't seem to have a handle on testing generics and they do allow "somne" variance in potency. I think that can lead to significant variances unlike brand.
My Dr. insists I take brand klonopin (when I could afford it - now I can't afford my doctor). He believes that even when you get a refill from the same manufacturer that the "batch" can be different than the previous batch you got your last refill from, therefore you're body can go through an adjustment or withdrawl each refill.
Perhaps those that take smaller doses or as needed/not daily feel the difference less, certainly everyone is different. My guess is that klonopin is such a potent drug even small variances make a big difference.
Posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2009, at 23:39:35
In reply to Re: brand klonopin » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on June 7, 2009, at 21:45:48
Jay in the second link you posted I love the work it's assumed they will work the same. Seriously so glad I had brand for many years actually continued buying brand where I could. That 20% variance makes a big difference. Cheryl I'm with you on the generic valium making you tired same here. Unfortunately I feel it's getting worse as we continue with generics but who am I a mere one person. Love Phillipa ps you know it's now personal right Jay?
Posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2009, at 23:41:23
In reply to Re: brand klonopin » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2009, at 23:39:35
Jay correction NOT PERSONAL. You know we're friends. Love Phillipa sorry typo.
Posted by yxibow on June 8, 2009, at 4:12:28
In reply to Re: brand klonopin » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2009, at 23:39:35
> Jay in the second link you posted I love the work it's assumed they will work the same. Seriously so glad I had brand for many years actually continued buying brand where I could. That 20% variance makes a big difference. Cheryl I'm with you on the generic valium making you tired same here. Unfortunately I feel it's getting worse as we continue with generics but who am I a mere one person. Love Phillipa ps you know it's now personal right Jay?
Of course its not personal -- I have one view on it, and others have another.
I can't say that I always apply the view uniformly -- I'm not completely comfortable with the idea of Seroquel becoming generic and taking the Cipla (already in Canada) or whoever has the generic.
There's something about being very sensitive to a class of medications that are very important to people but are among the most liable in psychiatry.And I am very sensitive. Its perhaps just a fear, but who knows if I will have exactly the same dose, or higher which I wouldn't want necessarily, lower, well alright but it could be even less effective.
Still paying at the moment an unidentified insurance company three figures that penalizes the highest cost medications eg... brand name Seroquel and whatever else they throw in.... well that's another story.-- Jay
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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