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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by garnet71 on April 19, 2009, at 22:09:20
So if you're bipolar, can you have zero motivation for serious things-like homework-but still feel lots of pleasure and just want to have fun all the time? Is that bipolar? Or just my reaction to stress-like losing my home, losing my health insurance...going bankrupt...Am I falling apart? Soemone please help me. And I've been suddenly craving alcohol.
I heard this song tonight, and i felt I was melting... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSh0bLXtFCo
Is feeling like you're melting a sign of bipolar? As in sensuality? Well, i feel that way alot -before I had mental health isssues..but haven't had that feeling in a while; ADs really take that away from me... So feeling like you have no motivation and sensual at the same time?
I think I need a good PDoc....to keep me in line. I don't know. Maybe this is just how I'm reacting to stress--or is this a sign of bipolar? I mean, at age 37, can bipolar suddenly emerge? I"m so confused...
Posted by garnet71 on April 19, 2009, at 22:30:03
In reply to Am I bipolar? Someone please....advice, posted by garnet71 on April 19, 2009, at 22:09:20
I mean, when I smoked weed (long ago!)..listening to songs was the ONLY thing I liked about it...i could listen to music for hours upon hours...but weed gave me anxiety and social anxiety..and I never liked it because of that...but the music was penetrating. I feel like I"m melting..but when ex bf kissed me, i felt like I was melting too...every time for 9 plus years...is this because of bipolar tendencies? Over-sensuality?
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on April 19, 2009, at 22:54:48
In reply to Am I bipolar? Someone please....advice, posted by garnet71 on April 19, 2009, at 22:09:20
Oh my gosh, you've been through a lot. I feel like your twin in some ways. I have been through a ton of stress as well in the last year and a half, am 38, and have had new symptoms from that stress (OCD) on top of the old (depression).
You could be experiencing hypomania, but it's hard to tell from your description. Sensuality is not a symptom but doing inappropriate sexual things in public or suddenly having lots of sex definitely is a sign of something being off.
DSM symptoms of hypomania are
A) A distinct period of persistently elevated, expansive or irritable mood, lasting throughout at least 4 days, that is clearly different from the usual nondepressed mood.
B) During the period of mood disturbance, three (or more) of the following symptoms have persisted (four if the mood is only irritable) and have been present to a significant degree:
1) inflated self-esteem or grandiosity
2) decreased need for sleep (e.g., feels rested after only 3 hours of sleep)
3) more talkative than usual or pressure to keep talking
4) flight of ideas or subjective experience that thoughts are racing
5) distractibility (i.e., attention too easily drawn to unimportant or irrelevant external stimuli)
6) increase in goal-directed activity (at work, at school, or sexually) or psychomotor agitation
7) excessive involvement in pleasurable activities that have a high potential for painful consequences (e.g., engaging in unrestrained buying sprees, sexual indiscretions, or foolish business investments)
C) The episode is associated with an unequivocal change in functioning that is uncharacteristic of the person when not symptomatic.
D) The disturbance in mood and the change in functioning are observable by others.
E) The mood disturbance not severe enough to cause marked impairment in social or occupational functioning, or to necessitate hospitalization, and there are no psychotic features.
F) The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication or other treatment) or a general medical condition (e.g., hyperthyroidism)
If you are having an episode of hypomania, then a diagnosis of bipolar II is appropriate.
I think the thinking is that if one is bipolar, aspects of it would've shown up in a modified way at some earlier point in life. psychoeducation.org is a great web site about the so-called "soft signs of bipolarity" (stuff that looks like depression with periods of normality but may actually be bipolar II). There is a good self-test on there that may help you sort all this out.
But--could it be your medications are simply working? Have you had a change in meds?
Like you, I am sometimes afraid that the real problem is I have bipolar II. I can answer "yes" to most of the web site's "soft signs" questionnaire. It's hard to sort out. I am a creative person who does creative things (sounds like you do too)--does that just make me more "melty" sometimes, like you?
Oh dear, I fear I have only confused the issue, in the end. Does this help at all?
Ah heck, let's just go to OASIS.
Yours in scintillation,
Amelia> So if you're bipolar, can you have zero motivation for serious things-like homework-but still feel lots of pleasure and just want to have fun all the time? Is that bipolar? Or just my reaction to stress-like losing my home, losing my health insurance...going bankrupt...Am I falling apart? Soemone please help me. And I've been suddenly craving alcohol.
>
> I heard this song tonight, and i felt I was melting... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSh0bLXtFCo
>
> Is feeling like you're melting a sign of bipolar? As in sensuality? Well, i feel that way alot -before I had mental health isssues..but haven't had that feeling in a while; ADs really take that away from me... So feeling like you have no motivation and sensual at the same time?
>
> I think I need a good PDoc....to keep me in line. I don't know. Maybe this is just how I'm reacting to stress--or is this a sign of bipolar? I mean, at age 37, can bipolar suddenly emerge? I"m so confused...
>
Posted by Phillipa on April 19, 2009, at 23:25:27
In reply to Am I bipolar? Someone please....advice, posted by garnet71 on April 19, 2009, at 22:09:20
Garnet sounds like high anxiety like me to me. Didn't you say concentration bad? And needed a med to stay awake and study? My opinion only but don't think so. You're getting lonely to me. And Amelia great post on symtoms of bipolar. Kudos on that!!!! Sleep would be the big one no sleep and feel like you need none. Calling people all over the country during the middle of night. Over spending money. Is that you? Love to you both Phillipa
Posted by garnet71 on April 20, 2009, at 16:46:13
In reply to Re: Am I bipolar? Someone please....advice » garnet71, posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on April 19, 2009, at 22:54:48
Thanks Amelia, twin, that was really sweet. :-)
Yeah, it's difficult to differentiate between personality characteristics and hypomania. I really don't think I have many of those symptoms. Well I have decreased focus from all important activities and channeled what little energy I have towards insignificant things. I think, however, it's been a coping mechanism more than anything else.
I remember way back, finding refuge in creative or pleasure-seeking activities; fantasies and imagination; watching for shooting stars; tapping into my spirituality; exploration-adventures; traveling; reading books-immersing all my thoughts into new territories. Art and crafts.
Maybe its been one life-long distraction and I'm slowly losing my ability to cope with reality.
Posted by Garnet71 on April 20, 2009, at 16:59:26
In reply to Am I bipolar? Someone please....advice, posted by garnet71 on April 19, 2009, at 22:09:20
Come to think of it, I did take this "brain fuel" supplement yesterday afternoon.
The last time I felt sort of odd was when I started taking melatonin supplements.
Posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2009, at 21:24:28
In reply to Re: Am I bipolar? Someone please....advice, posted by Garnet71 on April 20, 2009, at 16:59:26
Stop taking them and see as I'm sure that's what you're planning. Love Phillipa
Posted by desolationrower on April 24, 2009, at 16:40:58
In reply to Re: Am I bipolar? Someone please....advice » Garnet71, posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2009, at 21:24:28
i think that is more like ADHD...adhd have trouble avoiding 'more interesting' stuff, there is too much up and down in enjoyment level (ie, DA swrings, too little tonic DA), i think you just need some d-amp (plse share with me)
-d/r
PS i dunno about 'melting' but that video is goign on my playlist next time i smoke some salvia (it tends to make everything melt together...), with all the weird colours and wooshy stuff
Posted by Garnet71 on April 27, 2009, at 1:30:53
In reply to Re: Am I bipolar? Someone please....advice, posted by desolationrower on April 24, 2009, at 16:40:58
"there is too much up and down in enjoyment level (ie, DA swrings, too little tonic DA).."
I never knew that about ADD-could you articulate? From many of your posts, ADD makes soooo much more sense to me. I just read from another comment you wrote--ADDers need the reward center activated....it all makes so much sense to me now; it explains so much about my life, my choices, my decisions, my struggles....I also never knew how related procrastination is to ADD until you had talked about it recently.
But I took dextro again today--the same dose--and it felt like almost nothing..how can you build a tolerance so soon? Its only my third day. The only diff. was today I tried Zinc, 50 mg. (which made my brain feel fuzzy) a couple hours prior.
I'm afraid nothing is going to work, and I'll never get through school. or maybe I'll never get through life. Does ADD get worse when you get older? It seems progressive. Like more has to capture my interest now. Or maybe that is just ADD on stress...
Posted by desolationrower on April 27, 2009, at 13:03:01
In reply to Re: Am I bipolar? Someone please....advice, posted by Garnet71 on April 27, 2009, at 1:30:53
> "there is too much up and down in enjoyment level (ie, DA swrings, too little tonic DA).."
>
> I never knew that about ADD-could you articulate?ha, apparently i'm not. what are you asking about?
>From many of your posts, ADD makes soooo much more sense to me. I just read from another comment you wrote--ADDers need the reward center activated....it all makes so much sense to me now; it explains so much about my life, my choices, my decisions, my struggles....I also never knew how related procrastination is to ADD until you had talked about it recently.
did i? i think you're just reading my thoughts, i've been thinking about this recently, its not well described in scientific literature. i did a search for procrastination+desolationrower, only found something YOU wrote :)
i'm not sure if its direct or secondary. i'd guess the ADHDi subtype is hypoactive though and this would correlate to procrastination. and if you have access to books or games or hwatever distraction, thats going to cause procrastination. probably general prioritizing and goal-orientation problems are involved too. delay-gradient thing probably mattesr, only things that are more complex are capable of being procrastinated, because just finishing something is the reward for most things.
>
> But I took dextro again today--the same dose--and it felt like almost nothing..how can you build a tolerance so soon? Its only my third day. The only diff. was today I tried Zinc, 50 mg. (which made my brain feel fuzzy) a couple hours prior.
>
> I'm afraid nothing is going to work, and I'll never get through school. or maybe I'll never get through life. Does ADD get worse when you get older? It seems progressive. Like more has to capture my interest now. Or maybe that is just ADD on stress...i'd guess it gets better, little old ladies are always really well organized. i do'nt nkow that it increases monotonically though. getting stuck being unproductive and not being busy and excited can make it worse. it'll get better. sounds like you're functioning, just it feels overwhelming.
tolerance: might be difference between mood effects and focus effects, or you might just not be to an effective dose yet. didn't you say you only took half of what you were supposed to take?
-d/r
Posted by garnet71 on April 27, 2009, at 17:26:35
In reply to Re: Am I bipolar? Someone please....advice, posted by desolationrower on April 27, 2009, at 13:03:01
Oh I'll tell you about the procrastination later. Yeah-I only took 1/2 dose of dextro, but it was odd that by the 3rd day, I didn't really feel it after a noticable affect on days 1 and 2. I'm trying to conserve my pills...no pdoc appt. for 2 mos.
I want to know your thoughts on this (about the tonic and phasic DA..in relation to ADD (so I can think more about meds)) (except for swrings.lol):
> > "there is too much up and down in enjoyment level (ie, DA swrings, too little tonic DA).."
> >I never read ADD/ADHD scientific lit, but just websites..but I think I've learned more about it from you than from anywhere else.
This makes a lot of sense-
>
> i'm not sure if its direct or secondary. i'd guess the ADHDi subtype is hypoactive though and this would correlate to procrastination. and if you have access to books or games or hwatever distraction, thats going to cause procrastination. probably general prioritizing and goal-orientation problems are involved too. delay-gradient thing probably mattesr, only things that are more complex are capable of being procrastinated, because just finishing something is the reward for most things.
>
getting stuck being unproductive and not being busy and excited can make it worse. it'll get better. sounds like you're functioning, just it feels overwhelming.
>Yeah, that sure makes sense...stuck w/unproductiivty and not being busy and excited.yeah, functioning and overwhelming.. that's sound exactly what it is right now.
After I read this earlier today--I thought, well my life has been quite different over the past year--and I have gotten worse. No traveling for one year, no dating, change in types of course material to less appealing subjects (less contextual-more mathematical/scientific--and I am a creative person), less going out with friends, nothing exciting going on w/my life anymore compared to how I've lived in the past.
I really learned a lot from this whole thread, about myself. I love this forum. :-) Hey, do you have ADD-I, or ADHD, or ADD mixed, or whatever..which one do/did you have? I never had ADHD, but my son did; he grew out of the H in ADD...but I've only had ADD-but do all that squirming and fidgeting in class stuff...lol
Growing up, well my mother told me I always 'bored' always, though I don't remember much. So I used to read my parent's books. When I was a little kid, I was reading Freud...though can't remember any of it, I think it's still in my subconscious (transfers to intuition from absorption).
Thanks d/r :-))
Posted by garnet71 on April 30, 2009, at 22:13:11
In reply to Re: Am I bipolar? Someone please....advice, posted by garnet71 on April 27, 2009, at 17:26:35
Until further notice, this thread is closed as of 4/30/09.
- A.H.
Posted by desolationrower on May 24, 2009, at 20:21:49
In reply to Re: Am I bipolar? Someone please....advice, posted by garnet71 on April 27, 2009, at 17:26:35
hm i'm visiting parents so i got out my laptop. heres this thread open, finially going to respond:
> Oh I'll tell you about the procrastination later. Yeah-I only took 1/2 dose of dextro, but it was odd that by the 3rd day, I didn't really feel it after a noticable affect on days 1 and 2. I'm trying to conserve my pills...no pdoc appt. for 2 mos.
>
> I want to know your thoughts on this (about the tonic and phasic DA..in relation to ADD (so I can think more about meds)) (except for swrings.lol):
>well, lol, remember this post? http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090313/msgs/886351.html
> > > "there is too much up and down in enjoyment level (ie, DA swrings, too little tonic DA).."
> > >
>
> I never read ADD/ADHD scientific lit, but just websites..but I think I've learned more about it from you than from anywhere else.me knowing things is just 'drug seeking behavior' though, 'talk to your doctor' lol.
here are two abstracts which summarise it
Afferent modulation of dopamine neuron firing differentially regulates tonic and phasic dopamine transmission., Floresco 2003
The mesolimbic dopamine system is centrally involved in reward and goal-directed behavior, and it has been implicated in multiple psychiatric disorders. Understanding the mechanism by which dopamine participates in these activities requires comprehension of the dynamics of dopamine release. Here we report dissociable regulation of dopamine neuron discharge by two separate afferent systems in rats; inhibition of pallidal afferents selectively increased the population activity of dopamine neurons, whereas activation of pedunculopontine inputs increased burst firing. Only the increase in population activity increased ventral striatal dopamine efflux. After blockade of dopamine reuptake, however, enhanced bursting increased dopamine efflux three times more than did enhanced population activity. These results provide insight into multiple regulatory systems that modulate dopamine system function: burst firing induces massive synaptic dopamine release, which is rapidly removed by reuptake before escaping the synaptic cleft, whereas increased population activity modulates tonic extrasynaptic dopamine levels that are less influenced by reuptake.Phasic versus tonic dopamine release and the modulation of dopamine system responsivity: a hypothesis for the etiology of schizophrenia., Grace 1991
A novel mechanism for regulating dopamine activity in subcortical sites and its possible relevance to schizophrenia is proposed. This hypothesis is based on the regulation of dopamine release into subcortical regions occurring via two independent mechanisms: (1) transient or phasic dopamine release caused by dopamine neuron firing, and (2) sustained, "background" tonic dopamine release regulated by prefrontal cortical afferents. Behaviorally relevant stimuli are proposed to cause short-term activation of dopamine cell firing to trigger the phasic component of dopamine release. In contrast, tonic dopamine release is proposed to regulate the intensity of the phasic dopamine response through its effect on extracellular dopamine levels. In this way, tonic dopamine release would set the background level of dopamine receptor stimulation (both autoreceptor and postsynaptic) and, through homeostatic mechanisms, the responsivity of the system to dopamine in these sites. In schizophrenics, a prolonged decrease in prefrontal cortical activity is proposed to reduce tonic dopamine release. Over time, this would elicit homeostatic compensations that would increase overall dopamine responsivity and thereby cause subsequent phasic dopamine release to elicit abnormally large responses.i'm not exactly sure how schizophrenia and adhd overlap. adhdi and negative symptoms seem to be similar, and probably relate to low catecholamines in the pfc, but there are probably differences in the developemental path and genetic causes, and in the adult limbic system. there are probably additional problems in large-scale connection in schizophrenia that cause the specific cognitive symptoms.
here are a few other studies:
http://www.csbmb.princeton.edu/ncc/publications/2002/CohenBraverBrown2002.pdf
http://amysantamaria.googlepages.com/NPP-pub.pdf <-i think the best one on catecholamines and computational models. i might have a different one on my other computer. i need to organize between the two eventually.
http://www.csbmb.princeton.edu/ncc/publications/2005/AstonJonesAnnRev2005.pdf <-review of noradrenaline/LC system. even has eye dilation graph.
also relevent:
In CNS dopamine is a slow-acting molecule; however,
the pattern of DA firing is functionally significant. It is
possible to differentiate single-spike firing (which can be
divided into regular and random types [58,59]), burst type
firing, which releases a higher amount of DA [60] and
colocalized peptides [61], and is able to activate early
immediate genes in target regions [62], and tonic activity.
The phasic component has been subdivided into a fast
(100300 ms) and slow (smin) components, the first being
involved in reward prediction error, the second in
reinforcement, sex, movement, punishment and stress
[63]. An increased DA release has been shown in the
nucleus accumbens during behavioural activation [64] and a
previous study investigated the involvement of the MCL
and MS DA systems in the control of activity, orienting,
scanning times towards environmental stimuli and emotional
reactivity in mouse model systems.
http://www.bnl.gov/thanoslab/Thanos%20PDF/DR%20review.pdf> Yeah, that sure makes sense...stuck w/unproductiivty and not being busy and excited.yeah, functioning and overwhelming.. that's sound exactly what it is right now.
>
> After I read this earlier today--I thought, well my life has been quite different over the past year--and I have gotten worse. No traveling for one year, no dating, change in types of course material to less appealing subjects (less contextual-more mathematical/scientific--and I am a creative person), less going out with friends, nothing exciting going on w/my life anymore compared to how I've lived in the past.
>
> I really learned a lot from this whole thread, about myself. I love this forum. :-) Hey, do you have ADD-I, or ADHD, or ADD mixed, or whatever..which one do/did you have? I never had ADHD, but my son did; he grew out of the H in ADD...but I've only had ADD-but do all that squirming and fidgeting in class stuff...lol
>i've never been hyperactive, or at least not much. i think i was mildly disruptive in school, but more of a 'asking questions i knew would flummox the teacher" not the usual sort of thing. and i fidget. not sure what role anxiety plays in that tho.
-d/r
Posted by garnet71 on May 25, 2009, at 14:23:25
In reply to Re: Am I bipolar? Someone please....advice » garnet71, posted by desolationrower on May 24, 2009, at 20:21:49
Hey-how did you post this when the thread was closed???? You must have been bored!
I glanced through those documents--some real interesting stuff there and just the sort of thing I wanted to read.
Have been suspected the schitozphrenia gene has somethign to do with my chemistry. Like I have the gene, but not the gene that 'turns it on', though have also been thinking my grandmother who was diagnosed w/schitophrenia many years ago really had BP, after reading how mania can be mixed up...and because her med regime didn't work during the early years, but somehow she had no mental health issues for decades more recently; thinking maybe she was misdiagnosed. How did you know to find that article?
I think the anxiety is totally unrelated; it think it is from growing up in fear/fight-flight/PTSD/and chronic stress, along with the genetic predisposition.
In addition to the endocrine issues, now if I can just work this in, somehow link this to the fact SSRIs have somehow fried my dopamine receptors or something related, maybe have some kind of theory. Maybe this only happens to people with predisposed dopamine issues.
Or it could have something to do with this:
"In schizophrenics, a prolonged decrease in prefrontal cortical activity is proposed to reduce tonic dopamine release. Over time, this would elicit homeostatic compensations that would increase overall dopamine responsivity and thereby cause subsequent phasic dopamine release to elicit abnormally large responses."
Don't know when I'll be able to sort through it all with anxiety attacks. I stayed up all night, this is horrible. I did manage to read about accounting for over 4 hrs. last night, suprised myself. Now too tired to do anything at all. Took extra buspirone, Kava so far. I wish I hadn't thrown away all my zoloft, prozac, etc. I only have wellbutrin around the house now.
I hope you are having a nice weekend with your family. Thanks for all your help. : )
- Garnet
ps love the eye dialation graph - my favorite topic lol
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2009, at 20:24:40
In reply to Re: Am I bipolar? Someone please....advice, posted by garnet71 on April 30, 2009, at 22:13:11
Garnet people post on threads many years old they don't close. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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