![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jeroen on March 30, 2009, at 18:08:24
my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis .....
i will take 10 mg of Abilify, 400 MG+ of Seroquel upto 800 mg like Maxime of this board told that her psychosis went away
im going to try it, should i up my abilify also upto 30 mg?
also Seroxat 20 mg
WILL ABILIFY BLOCKS THE EFFECTS OF HIGH DOSE SEROQUEL? after 2 weeks i should be able to quit the abilify and see if psychosis is gone?
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 30, 2009, at 19:17:27
In reply to my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis ....., posted by Jeroen on March 30, 2009, at 18:08:24
I wouldn't normally be bringing this up, but you've had such poor results from standard therapy.....what do you think of this?
http://www.doctoryourself.com/review_hoffer_B3.html
Lar
Posted by Zyprexa on March 30, 2009, at 20:38:11
In reply to my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis ....., posted by Jeroen on March 30, 2009, at 18:08:24
I wouldn't up the Abilify. I don't know if its true for seroquel. But when I switched abilify for zyprexa. The abilify overpowered the zyprexa, untill I had stoped the abilify for a long time. Approximatly 3-4 times the time on abilify. Also I experienced what was sort of Abilify withdraw, where I felt worse off the abilify than when I was on it, even while on zyprexa at high doses. The higher the dose of zyprexa the less were the withdraw. And after the withdraw was over I could go back to my previous dose of zyprexa, 10mg. I hope this makes sense and helps some. It was true for me that even though I was continued on zyprexa when starting abilify. Eventualy the abilify over powered the zyprexa. When I stoped abilify I had to take 2-5 times my normal dose of zyprexa for any relief.
Posted by Phillipa on March 31, 2009, at 0:01:30
In reply to Re: my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis ..... » Jeroen, posted by Larry Hoover on March 30, 2009, at 19:17:27
Lar is this true???? Phillipa and Jeroen take what your doc prescribes. People just post own experiences here. Your doctor is the only one who should prescribe for you. What Lar says ask him about okay? Love Phillipa
Posted by Jeroen on March 31, 2009, at 3:27:15
In reply to Re: my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis ....., posted by Phillipa on March 31, 2009, at 0:01:30
are you kidding larry hoover B3 ?
Posted by yxibow on March 31, 2009, at 3:40:41
In reply to my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis ....., posted by Jeroen on March 30, 2009, at 18:08:24
> my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis .....
>
> i will take 10 mg of Abilify, 400 MG+ of Seroquel upto 800 mg like Maxime of this board told that her psychosis went away
>
> im going to try it, should i up my abilify also upto 30 mg?
>
>
> also Seroxat 20 mg
>
>
> WILL ABILIFY BLOCKS THE EFFECTS OF HIGH DOSE SEROQUEL? after 2 weeks i should be able to quit the abilify and see if psychosis is gone?
>
>No. And no and no. Two weeks of Abilify, even at a change that much is just barely enough to get over some EPS and see very very minor changes.
APs, like antidepressants are palliatives. That means, if it is suppressing and helping stop some of your most distressing psychotic issues, you have to continue to take them, basically indefinitely just like antidepressants, even if you "feel better".
Yes, you can slowly lower doses, but going off medications completely when feeling better sometimes illustrates the need to continue on them, because they ARE making you feel better.
If you drop them, and by the way you cannot drop them like that after two weeks cold, nasty things like withdrawal dyskinesia and severe anxiety can happen.
I thought you were going to try Seroquel XR. Isn't one medical trial at a time better because it just seems like a lot of circles :/
And aren't the doctors in charge of these changes ?
I mean, I wouldn't sharply change doses of APs just on a dime. The window of psychotropic change is fairly long, it doesn't happen overnight. Going from 10mg to 30mg of Abilify sounds like a lot of change.-- best of luck, I do mean it, I'm not trying to be overcritical I hope
Jay
Posted by seldomseen on March 31, 2009, at 6:58:00
In reply to Re: my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis ....., posted by Jeroen on March 31, 2009, at 3:27:15
There is some evidence of vitamin deficiencies in schizophrenia.
This review article is freely available
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18587164?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSumBut I would strongly recommend that you talk to your doctors about it. Niacin is not without risk, even if there is no flushing... Please read the abstract below.
Seldom.
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 31, 2009, at 8:12:16
In reply to Re: my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis ....., posted by Jeroen on March 31, 2009, at 3:27:15
> are you kidding larry hoover B3 ?
You've tried every conventional therapy, sometimes more than once, without lasting success, if any improvement occurred at all. I was thinking "outside the box". Just throwing out an idea that could probably be tried in addition to other therapies, under medical supervision.
However, in reading the review article posted by seldomseen, I now realize that Hoffer's successes were limited to acute schizophrenia. Chronic schizophrenics did not respond to vitamin B3 therapy. I'm sorry that I did not understand that there was any limitation on the treatment.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 31, 2009, at 8:13:16
In reply to Re: my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis ....., posted by seldomseen on March 31, 2009, at 6:58:00
Thanks for supplying some very relevant references.
Lar
Posted by bleauberry on March 31, 2009, at 19:24:19
In reply to Re: my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis ..... » Jeroen, posted by Larry Hoover on March 31, 2009, at 8:12:16
"...Three years later, I first saw niacin work on somebody else. He was a bona-fide, properly-diagnosed, utterly-incurable, State-hospitalized schizophrenic patient."
Is this acute or chronic? It must have been chronic since he was "utterly incurable", yeah? I mean, you don't get that label in a few days or a few weeks of being ill.
B3 worked.
I like the idea. It makes a lot more sense than pounding down more high doses of powerful mysterious meds. I mean, given the choice, why would someone NOT try it?
It kind of reminds me of Christopher Columbus...what a fool he was thinking the earth was round. EVeryone knows it is flat. And what about the guy who discovered ulcers are from bacteria? EVeryone knows ulcers are from stress. And ya know, the Pfeiffer Institute is all about healing patients with very detailed lab analysis and targeted mega-vitamin and mineral therapy based on the labs. I don't think their success rate is any higher than any other institution. The difference is they accomplish their success with patients that have already failed other institutions of medicine, and they do it with vitamins. Think about it.
But to make it real simple and logical, just answer this question? Why would you NOT try it?
> > are you kidding larry hoover B3 ?
>
> You've tried every conventional therapy, sometimes more than once, without lasting success, if any improvement occurred at all. I was thinking "outside the box". Just throwing out an idea that could probably be tried in addition to other therapies, under medical supervision.
>
> However, in reading the review article posted by seldomseen, I now realize that Hoffer's successes were limited to acute schizophrenia. Chronic schizophrenics did not respond to vitamin B3 therapy. I'm sorry that I did not understand that there was any limitation on the treatment.
>
> Lar
>
Posted by yxibow on April 1, 2009, at 3:48:51
In reply to Re: my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis ....., posted by bleauberry on March 31, 2009, at 19:24:19
> "...Three years later, I first saw niacin work on somebody else. He was a bona-fide, properly-diagnosed, utterly-incurable, State-hospitalized schizophrenic patient."
>
> Is this acute or chronic? It must have been chronic since he was "utterly incurable", yeah? I mean, you don't get that label in a few days or a few weeks of being ill.
>
> B3 worked.
>
> I like the idea. It makes a lot more sense than pounding down more high doses of powerful mysterious meds. I mean, given the choice, why would someone NOT try it?
>
> It kind of reminds me of Christopher Columbus...what a fool he was thinking the earth was round. EVeryone knows it is flat. And what about the guy who discovered ulcers are from bacteria? EVeryone knows ulcers are from stress. And ya know, the Pfeiffer Institute is all about healing patients with very detailed lab analysis and targeted mega-vitamin and mineral therapy based on the labs. I don't think their success rate is any higher than any other institution. The difference is they accomplish their success with patients that have already failed other institutions of medicine, and they do it with vitamins. Think about it.
>
> But to make it real simple and logical, just answer this question? Why would you NOT try it?
I'm not going to comment on the post itself in particular other than, yes, APs are powerful medications.Schizophrenia and related conditions are also powerful and gripping disorders probably break the budget in this country as among mental illness.
This isn't saying blame the patient -- not at all, I'm just saying it is a pressing concern and some cases unfortunately do require medication, that yes, has liabilities.
I don't have anything related to that, but yes, I unfortunately have to take an AP at the present. I would dearly love not to, but I know that if I stop at the moment, my functionality would be compromised.
That all being said -- besides intense flushing issues with the wrong formulations, at least in my trials, it did not promote anxiety relief as it is sometimes anecdotally mentioned , but rather increased it.
Mixing it in a situation with strong psychosis -- I don't know what would happen. I'm sure after a few weeks trial with it would tell what could happen. Nothing is without consequences, but if Jeroen wants to try it, I don't see a problem.But you'll never know what last change caused something positive or negative if you make multiple changes at the same time. I've learned that myself.
So if Abilify is raised, it should be gradually raised. A trial of Seroquel XR, which I thought was mentioned before should be done -on its own-.
And thus trying B3 should also be tried on its own, in time.
At least waiting a few weeks before rapidly doing things that will burst the bubble of causality and causation.
-- tidings
Jay
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2009, at 20:19:06
In reply to Re: my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis ..... » bleauberry, posted by yxibow on April 1, 2009, at 3:48:51
Jay agree with you one change at a time. Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on April 2, 2009, at 7:15:33
In reply to my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis ....., posted by Jeroen on March 30, 2009, at 18:08:24
> my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis .....
>
> i will take 10 mg of Abilify, 400 MG+ of Seroquel upto 800 mg like Maxime of this board told that her psychosis went away
>
> im going to try it, should i up my abilify also upto 30 mg?I'm still thinking a more potent DA receptor antagonist like Risperdal might be indicated. Because of what I have seen personally with a combination of Seroquel and Risperdal, and the manipulation of both drugs, it is hard not to recommend a very short trial of Risperdal. You should know within a week or two if it is going to help.
Have you experienced a bad reaction to Risperdal in the past?
- Scott
Posted by Jeroen on April 2, 2009, at 7:45:09
In reply to Re: my friends, trying to reverse a psychosis ..... » Jeroen, posted by SLS on April 2, 2009, at 7:15:33
Risperdal made me a complete zombie in the past
nothing but misery from meds
Posted by SLS on April 2, 2009, at 10:51:02
In reply to To SLS, posted by Jeroen on April 2, 2009, at 7:45:09
> Risperdal made me a complete zombie in the past
>
> nothing but misery from medsI'm sorry, Jeroen. I thought that maybe I was on to something.
You are exhibiting great strength. Never give up the fight.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on April 2, 2009, at 11:49:21
In reply to To SLS, posted by Jeroen on April 2, 2009, at 7:45:09
One last thought on Seroquel and its effectiveness for one woman. This woman was kept very well on Risperdal 3.0mg + Seroquel 100-200mg. However, when the Risperdal was discontinued due to prolactin concerns, she needed a full 800mg of Seroquel to recapture the antipsychotic response.
Get well.
- Scott
Posted by Jeroen on April 2, 2009, at 12:34:25
In reply to Re: To SLS » Jeroen, posted by SLS on April 2, 2009, at 11:49:21
mm sounds like i need 800 mg
but i will get cardiac side effects for sure, a fake heart attack that lasts 1 hour every night then i fall asleep, pretty scared stuff...
Posted by sam K on April 2, 2009, at 19:37:38
In reply to Re: To SLS, posted by Jeroen on April 2, 2009, at 12:34:25
can you take a beta blocker everynight then?
Posted by Jeroen on April 3, 2009, at 2:44:30
In reply to Re: To SLS, posted by sam K on April 2, 2009, at 19:37:38
isnt that dangerous or does it stop tachardia attacks ?
Posted by myco on April 3, 2009, at 11:35:18
In reply to beta blocker, posted by Jeroen on April 3, 2009, at 2:44:30
in small doses and not used regulary (everyday) its fine. will slow rapid heart beat and lower bp a lil. these are old lady heart medications lol my pdoc years ago said this for a laugh as she rx'd propanalol after i complained klon depressed me the next day and i wanted to stop it. but if you take too much then yes you can run into issues...weakness via low bp is typically noticed first...you just wanna sleep
> isnt that dangerous or does it stop tachardia attacks ?
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.