![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 66 to 90 of 90. Go back in thread:
Posted by Cseagraves on February 16, 2009, at 17:35:12
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Courtney!!! (nm) » JadeKelly, posted by JadeKelly on February 16, 2009, at 16:24:11
Been missin ya!
Posted by JadeKelly on February 16, 2009, at 19:17:58
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Jade!!! :-), posted by Cseagraves on February 16, 2009, at 17:35:12
> Been missin ya!
Hi Courtney, buzy, buzy, buzy! I think were missing each other!! Literally,lol. Crossing paths on the board. I'm just not here that much lately, so much to catch up on!!! I've been reading you posts. In fact I read all the above earlier, your posts are very heartfelt. Let me know how your doin' ;-)
~Jade
Posted by G-man885858 on February 17, 2009, at 17:33:05
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Jade!!! :-), posted by JadeKelly on February 16, 2009, at 19:17:58
Hey,
Do any of you guys drink a good herbal tea? Like a tea that actually gives you energy an raises your mood? A tea that really works?
Posted by Cseagraves on February 17, 2009, at 18:12:44
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Jade!!! :-), posted by G-man885858 on February 17, 2009, at 17:33:05
Hi G-man!
Hope you are feeling better.
The only thing I drink besides water is a combination of decaf green tea and white tea. I brew the tea bags together and squeeze lemon juice into it. I drink about a gallon a week.
Courtney
Posted by G-man885858 on February 17, 2009, at 18:33:25
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Jade!!! :-), posted by Cseagraves on February 17, 2009, at 18:12:44
Every day, between 4 pm - 11 pm I am SO TIRED that I cannot keep myself up, and I have to go to bed. This leaves me up most of the night after 11 pm which sucks. I hate staying up at night - it drives you mentally insane!
Coffee is too strong for me to use to keep myself up during the day, so I'm looking for some herb that may help keep me up during the day so I can sleep at night. There's gotta be something.
Posted by G-man885858 on February 17, 2009, at 19:04:41
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Jade!!! :-), posted by Cseagraves on February 17, 2009, at 18:12:44
Courtney,
What I'm also worried about is since my doc doesn't sell Standard Process supps in his office, then he won't be a fan of using them. You know how docs are, they only like to push the supplements that THEY sell. I guess all doctors are selfish like that.
Posted by JadeKelly on February 17, 2009, at 19:20:59
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Jade!!! :-), posted by G-man885858 on February 17, 2009, at 18:33:25
> Every day, between 4 pm - 11 pm I am SO TIRED that I cannot keep myself up, and I have to go to bed. This leaves me up most of the night after 11 pm which sucks. I hate staying up at night - it drives you mentally insane!
That it does!
>
> Coffee is too strong for me to use to keep myself up during the day, so I'm looking for some herb that may help keep me up during the day so I can sleep at night. There's gotta be something.I'm a coffee drinker, I don't really drink tea.
Do you have a health food store near you? Not just a Supp. store, but one that sells groceries too. Organic type, etc. Just ask one of the employees who knows the most about the teas.Good luck!
~Jade
Posted by G-man885858 on February 24, 2009, at 2:09:15
In reply to Re: Hope this helps! Hi Jade!!! :-), posted by JadeKelly on February 17, 2009, at 19:20:59
Hey,
I've been taking ambien every nite for more than 2 months now. I want to stop it, but I'm getting nasty withdrawal... DOes anyone have any good suggestions for this?
Please!
Posted by JadeKelly on February 24, 2009, at 19:42:16
In reply to An important Question, posted by G-man885858 on February 24, 2009, at 2:09:15
> Hey,
>
> I've been taking ambien every nite for more than 2 months now. I want to stop it, but I'm getting nasty withdrawal... DOes anyone have any good suggestions for this?
>
> Please!Hey G-Mann
First, don't panic. You'll get some ideas here and figure something out, okay?
Do you have enough to do a slow, slow taper? What kind of withdrawal symptoms are you having? How much have you been taking and i f you don't mind my asking, what other meds are you on at what dosages?
My nephew was taking Ambien and felt he was becoming dependent also. He'll be home soon hopefully and I can get some ideas from him. If not I'll try and reach him. In the mean time see if anyone else has experience with this.
My understanding is its not the innocent sleep med they make it out to be. My nephew and I told his GP he had a history with addiction (benzos) and couldn't be given anything like that. Luckily hes doing a program and wasn't about to ruin it over Ambien.
Sorry that happened to you. I'll talk with you a little later. Stay cool!
~Jade
Posted by G-man885858 on February 24, 2009, at 20:34:53
In reply to Re: An important Question » G-man885858, posted by JadeKelly on February 24, 2009, at 19:42:16
Jade,
How slow of a taper do you mean? My psychiatrist says to take 1/2 a pill (5 mg) for a week, then 1/2 a pill EVERY OTHER DAY for the next week. I am currently on Seroquel 300 mg, Klonopin 1 mg, Lopressor 25 mg, and of course Ambien 10 mg.
The symptoms I'm having is extreme anger, depression, irritability, and a general sick feeling. I've had these symptoms before with Ambien withdrawal back in Summer of 2005. Back then I was able to simply cold-turkey off of it, but now It's a lot harder to stop this nasty drug. My doc says that Klonopin should help ease the withdrawal symptoms, but it's not helping.
I hate myself because I knew the hazards of taking Ambien for long periods of time. But out of sheer despair I took it. Now I'm stuck with this nasty drug.
Posted by JadeKelly on February 24, 2009, at 22:36:47
In reply to Re: An important Question, posted by G-man885858 on February 24, 2009, at 20:34:53
> Jade,
>
> How slow of a taper do you mean? My psychiatrist says to take 1/2 a pill (5 mg) for a week, then 1/2 a pill EVERY OTHER DAY for the next week. I am currently on Seroquel 300 mg, Klonopin 1 mg, Lopressor 25 mg, and of course Ambien 10 mg.
>
> The symptoms I'm having is extreme anger, depression, irritability, and a general sick feeling. I've had these symptoms before with Ambien withdrawal back in Summer of 2005. Back then I was able to simply cold-turkey off of it, but now It's a lot harder to stop this nasty drug. My doc says that Klonopin should help ease the withdrawal symptoms, but it's not helping.
>
> I hate myself because I knew the hazards of taking Ambien for long periods of time. But out of sheer despair I took it. Now I'm stuck with this nasty drug.Hi G-Mann,
I talked to my nephew, and I am currently tapering off Klonopin. IMHO you are tapering off way too fast. My nephew agrees, its a nasty drug to get off of. I agree with you. Maybe Klonopin should be helping but the fact is, it isn't. So I would stop that rapid taper and go to a slow taper. You shouldn't be feeling that way.
You know how hard it is to w/d from Klonopin, I've been taking 3mg for years. I don't even notice. In addition, if you have tolerance to the klon its not gonna help as much.
If you are sure its the Ambien that is causing you to feel this way, then you need to slow it way down, and if it was me I'd want it slow enough that I hardly notice. Why torture yourself? Does your Doc have a reason for wanting you off it so fast?
Klon I am tapering by 1/2mg per week, I was taking 3mg per day. I'm down to 2mg a day. Like I said, I don't notice a thing. So if my math is right I started at 15% taper the first week.
You are tapering by 50% the first week. This might not mean much, I'm not sure. Bottom line, no reason for you to be suffering like that. It's too FAST! Did you take too much now your out, or is he limiting you to that taper? Or will he do what you ask?
Tell him its too fast and you want to taper at what ever rate doesn't cause those awful symptoms. If he won't do it, I think you'll have to see another Doc to handle it. I see no reason for you to suffer.
And one more thing, you need to give yourself a break! We've all made dumb mistakes when were tired or depressed or whatever. People who aren't in treatment do it all the time. Cut yourself some slack....thats an order. I am in remission because I sensed my PDoc was wrong about something. If you made a mistake and took it all thinking you could cold turkey, go see your GP.
Thats all I can think of tonight. If you are out or close to being out and PDoc wont give you any more make an emergency appt with GP.
Good Luck, weve all been there believe me.
~Jade
Posted by myco on February 25, 2009, at 13:49:26
In reply to An important Question, posted by G-man885858 on February 24, 2009, at 2:09:15
Since ambien is a z-drug or "pseudo-benzo", it needs to be treated as a benzo and an appropriate withdrawl schedule may be needed, including substition with a slower acting benzo like valium...see Ashton's Manual for benziodiazepine withdrawal (it has slow withdrawal schedules to the day and mg you could follow). Just an idea...i'm sure your doc would be familiar with it. Heres the link (chapter II covers slow withdrawal after prolonged use):
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/
> Hey,
>
> I've been taking ambien every nite for more than 2 months now. I want to stop it, but I'm getting nasty withdrawal... DOes anyone have any good suggestions for this?
>
> Please!
Posted by G-man885858 on February 25, 2009, at 22:44:49
In reply to Re: An important Question » G-man885858, posted by myco on February 25, 2009, at 13:49:26
I told my psychiatrist that Klonopin was not helping at all, so he replaced it with Valium. I hope you're right that Valium is the longest acting - hence the safest of all benzos. Obviously Klonopin was useless to me.
I hope that Valium helps the ambien withdrawal. I really see no other alternatives.
Posted by myco on February 25, 2009, at 23:37:34
In reply to Re: An important Question, posted by G-man885858 on February 25, 2009, at 22:44:49
Be careful when you say safest. Perhaps has less potential to be "abused". It's not the "longest" acting...there are others, although i've never seen them used (seem to be pretty rare - some last many days). It lasts long enough. It's long acting characteristic is useful for that slow withdrawal, Ashton describes, from faster acting benzos. As you come down in dose on ambien you add a little bit of valium which carries for you a long way and reduces the withdrawal sides of the ambien...then at one point ambien is gone and you remain with valium which is easier to come off of on this short run with it. Valium and temazepam also seem to have very little risk of tolerance...ive read studies on this and the dr who gave me temazepam was totally aware of this and ok'd that particular benzo while xanax or klon he said no to.
> I told my psychiatrist that Klonopin was not helping at all, so he replaced it with Valium. I hope you're right that Valium is the longest acting - hence the safest of all benzos. Obviously Klonopin was useless to me.
>
> I hope that Valium helps the ambien withdrawal. I really see no other alternatives.
Posted by G-man885858 on February 26, 2009, at 0:27:31
In reply to Re: An important Question » G-man885858, posted by myco on February 25, 2009, at 23:37:34
I have a theory: and I want everyone to comment on it, Please.
Drug withdrawal creates a large demand for cortisol. People with a cortisol deficiency (like those with adrenal fatigue) , are unable to create enough cortisol to meet the demands of withdrawal. This in turn causes very bad withdrawal symptoms because cortisol helps mobilize your body for stress, and without it your body cannot deal with the nasty stress of withdrawal (Hence causing an aggravation of withdrawal symptoms).
I say this because I was diagnosed with low cortisol, and I want to know if my low cortisol is aggravating the Ambien withdrawal -> should I be supplementing with cortisol (like IsoCort) to ease the withdrawal? Is withdrawal particularly hard on those with adrenal fatigue/Low cortisol??
Please, I want to hear everyone's opinion!
Posted by myco on February 26, 2009, at 0:41:58
In reply to Re: An important Question, posted by G-man885858 on February 26, 2009, at 0:27:31
I can't answer this one...but I believe it's more complicated than this. More to do with the various GABA receptors involved in benzo effect. It takes awhile for the restabilization of GABA I think. Kind of over my head here but thats the general idea. Somebody will be able to comment much more securely on this. Since this thread is considered "old" (it's way up here in the netherland of the list) you should repost it as new (your theory) and change the subject heading to indicate what youre asking. More people will respond and not pass by this old thread thinking it's done and gone.
myco
> I have a theory: and I want everyone to comment on it, Please.
>
> Drug withdrawal creates a large demand for cortisol. People with a cortisol deficiency (like those with adrenal fatigue) , are unable to create enough cortisol to meet the demands of withdrawal. This in turn causes very bad withdrawal symptoms because cortisol helps mobilize your body for stress, and without it your body cannot deal with the nasty stress of withdrawal (Hence causing an aggravation of withdrawal symptoms).
>
> I say this because I was diagnosed with low cortisol, and I want to know if my low cortisol is aggravating the Ambien withdrawal -> should I be supplementing with cortisol (like IsoCort) to ease the withdrawal? Is withdrawal particularly hard on those with adrenal fatigue/Low cortisol??
>
> Please, I want to hear everyone's opinion!
Posted by JadeKelly on February 26, 2009, at 23:36:52
In reply to Re: An important Question, posted by G-man885858 on February 26, 2009, at 0:27:31
Sorry G-Mann,
I haven't a clue. Makes sense I geuss, but thats all it is, a geuss. Check with your PDoc. Also good idea last post to run new thread with this header RE: your specific question about Cortisol,etc. Good Luck!!
~Jade
Posted by G-man885858 on March 25, 2009, at 0:42:11
In reply to Re: An important Question, posted by JadeKelly on February 26, 2009, at 23:36:52
Hey,
My doc gave me Wellbutrin to try today.
Posted by SLS on March 25, 2009, at 6:01:33
In reply to A new medicine, posted by G-man885858 on March 25, 2009, at 0:42:11
> Hey,
>
> My doc gave me Wellbutrin to try today.Good luck!
If for some reason Wellbutrin doesn't work by itself, it might make sense to add another drug to it rather than switch.
- Scott
Posted by G-man885858 on March 25, 2009, at 16:16:35
In reply to Re: A new medicine, posted by SLS on March 25, 2009, at 6:01:33
Wellbutrin comes with a warning of "possible suicidal ideations".
Aren't there ANY antidepressants that DON'T have this warning? Or do all of them have it?
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 25, 2009, at 17:32:26
In reply to Wellbutrin suicide warnings, posted by G-man885858 on March 25, 2009, at 16:16:35
> Wellbutrin comes with a warning of "possible suicidal ideations".
>
> Aren't there ANY antidepressants that DON'T have this warning? Or do all of them have it?They all have this warning, as far as I know.
Lar
Posted by elanor roosevelt on March 29, 2009, at 21:54:12
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin suicide warnings » G-man885858, posted by Larry Hoover on March 25, 2009, at 17:32:26
yes, even outside the chance that an AD triggers suicidal thoughts, there is a passage point, when the depression is lifting when anyone with suicidal tendencies has to be carefully monitored. When the depression starts to lift a bit but the patient is not yet seeing any light at the tunnel--that can be a dangerous window of time.
Posted by SLS on March 30, 2009, at 7:06:56
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin suicide warnings, posted by elanor roosevelt on March 29, 2009, at 21:54:12
> yes, even outside the chance that an AD triggers suicidal thoughts, there is a passage point, when the depression is lifting when anyone with suicidal tendencies has to be carefully monitored. When the depression starts to lift a bit but the patient is not yet seeing any light at the tunnel--that can be a dangerous window of time.
Definitely.
- Scott
Posted by desolationrower on March 31, 2009, at 0:39:36
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin suicide warnings » elanor roosevelt, posted by SLS on March 30, 2009, at 7:06:56
well doing anything different can disturb someone who is teetering on edge of suicide. its like trying to fix a jenga game.
-d/r
Posted by elanor roosevelt on April 6, 2009, at 0:24:40
In reply to Re: Wellbutrin suicide warnings, posted by desolationrower on March 31, 2009, at 0:39:36
yes, but this is a specific window of time when people with suicidal tendency need to be monitored and it is inexcusable if they are not.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.