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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 23, 2009, at 20:30:35
Took my first does of nardil earlier today.
I worry though, about getting a hypertensive crisis. Not rational, I know. The risk is low.
I have a little head ache though, so I keep checking my BP. 120/80.
I also worry that Nardil will end up working really well for me, then I become a 'lifer'. Keep having second thoughts - maybe I should try exercising harder and try CBT.
Just venting, thanks :)
Posted by Phillipa on March 23, 2009, at 21:22:30
In reply to Scared starting nardil... :-Z, posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 23, 2009, at 20:30:35
I understand. Phillipa
Posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 23, 2009, at 22:14:21
In reply to Scared starting nardil... :-Z, posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 23, 2009, at 20:30:35
Just read something that said "avoid strenuous exercise". Not sure if it is accurant.
Posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 23, 2009, at 23:04:26
In reply to Scared starting nardil... :-Z, posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 23, 2009, at 20:30:35
this fruit could be 'aged'. hmmm
Posted by mav27 on March 24, 2009, at 0:11:36
In reply to Scared starting nardil... :-Z, posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 23, 2009, at 20:30:35
What's wrong with becoming a "lifer"? If it works then stick to it, doesn't matter if you end up on it for life.
Don't worry too much about it, more people have died from being hit by meteorites than from nardil.
Posted by myco on March 24, 2009, at 0:13:53
In reply to Scared starting nardil... :-Z, posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 23, 2009, at 20:30:35
Hey,
I take nardil...am in almost complete remission of anxiety except for an odd bought here and there (specially when i mess with supplements lol opps my bad).
Youre right the worrying about hypertension is anxiety and not rational. I would suggest with extreme consideration on your part.....get rid of that bp machine or put it away and dont obsess about it ok. It will rule your life if you are an anxiety patient...serious. You will end up checking every lil thing then you will end up having to check everytime you feel something you think is different...placebo effect etc....it's not a healthy tool to overuse especially if you are worrier. I have one but it drove me to panic one evening as my bp was going up due to a supplement i had taken....anyway...its packed away for now until I need it (last resort) kind of thing.
>"I also worry that Nardil will end up working really well for me, then I become a 'lifer'."
This I dont really understand but I do understand your issue about being on meds for years. Listen you must feel (or your dr) that you need to be on meds at least at the time being. If you have generalized anxiety, social anxiety or atypical depression then nardil is your best choice for a med. Dont look at it like the "lifer" term you used ok....think of it as a bandaid....you put the maoi on when times are hard then you go mayaby 6months to year max wearing that bandaid then you take it off and let your brain go on itsown....you will get length of remission mabye weeks mabye years, dont know yet....but unfortunately in the long run, remission induced by previous use of any med will fail and the patient needs to "put back on that bandaid again"
. ok so dont think of it as a new arm here dude, serious....I myself dont mind calling myself a lifer because the state I was in prior to finding a suitable med was horrendous and I wont, by choice, go back without a bail out plan....like going back on nardil. Just adjust your perception of psych meds a lil and try to see them positive ok and not like a new ugly bodily growth.One other thing......a big yes to excerise and cbt....the cbt will "augment" the nardil (make it better) in the long run for you....a better treatment will be had. you will learn valuable skills for those times you need them. and well exercise....dude that cant hurt....if youve just started nardil you will experience (if not already) fatigue and you wont want to exercise. but it passes...once youve hit a stable dose...the sides pass almost all of them .... promise....thats when you go cardio hardcore. dont overworry right now....its only gonna work against you. first priority: get to a stable dose.
we'll be here for ya to answer questions and stuff
myco
Took my first does of nardil earlier today.
>
> I worry though, about getting a hypertensive crisis. Not rational, I know. The risk is low.
>
> I have a little head ache though, so I keep checking my BP. 120/80.
>
> I also worry that Nardil will end up working really well for me, then I become a 'lifer'. Keep having second thoughts - maybe I should try exercising harder and try CBT.
>
> Just venting, thanks :)
Posted by myco on March 24, 2009, at 0:20:11
In reply to Re: Scared starting nardil... :-Z » TriedEveryDrug, posted by myco on March 24, 2009, at 0:13:53
oh ya go wild on the blueberry pie....go on and stick in your thumb like that fat kid in the nursery rhyme....no wait..that was plum pie. bollocks...they're both fine
Posted by desolationrower on March 24, 2009, at 0:43:21
In reply to Re: Scared starting nardil... :-Z, posted by myco on March 24, 2009, at 0:20:11
heh, back when nardil came out, exercise is bad, you only have so many heart beats, use them up exercising and you'll die early. lolol
-d/r
Posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 24, 2009, at 9:31:15
In reply to Re: Scared starting nardil... :-Z, posted by desolationrower on March 24, 2009, at 0:43:21
Hi,
Thanks for everyone's responses.I've had a weird headache at the base of my skull all night long. Plus my neck is stiff.
My cheapo walgreens BP gauge says 120/80 for my left arm and 130/90 for my right arm. I hope it is accurate (gauge type, not electronic).
Still nothing to worry about? I think the nardil itself is making me anxious...
Posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 24, 2009, at 14:30:06
In reply to Scared starting nardil... :-Z, posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 23, 2009, at 20:30:35
This is interfering with my job.
I know this SE goes away after a few weeks, but I'm not sure I can afford it right now.
I'm considering aborting the nardil for now and then trying it later, like when I have some vacation time or something.
At 15mg 1x a day, how long will the spaciness last? If more than a few days I think I will abort...
Posted by myco on March 24, 2009, at 18:16:18
In reply to Total lack of concetration now..., posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 24, 2009, at 14:30:06
Ok.....the bp is within the normal area for starting nardil...youre fine, dont worry. Also excessive worrying and anxiety like I mentioned will raise your bp and some people get what are called "tension headaches" that may occur in the back of the head and cause bp to go up alil when you overthink them. Nardil may increase anxiety when starting up....so it's important to chill as much as you can and just go with the flow of the sides...you will be fine.
Now..that being said....I have two issues with your newest post:
Dont expect side effects to dissapear in days...everytime you raise the dose expect to have about 2 weeks of side effects...each and everytime you raise dose....some people get less some more....average is about 2 weeks.
Second and more importantly here....15mg a day? wow...ok I'm guessin you are super med sensitive. Knowing that you will get about 2 weeks of sides every dose increase and 15mg is nowhere near a therapeutic dose....you will most likely need at least 60mg.....it's gonna be a long haul for you in terms of sides...a long haul at that speed. If you can handle the sides it's best to get them over as fast as you can. start 45mg wait 2-4 weeks then up to 60 wait 4-6 weeks then if you need keep upping and waiting for sides to clear again and med response to stabilize.
You will certainly be looking at job problems at your speed. Although this speed is super safe, kudo's on that, is it really needed? you are just extending your own misery.
Dont percieve me as all doom and gloom though ok...i'm actually very positive person. I am simply concerned for you...you dont want the med to effect your job yet you are goin at a speed that will maximize your chances it will effect. But then again you may be a person (sometimes I meet them) who doesnt get much of any side effect and coasts nicely through.
Take care....keep up informed how it goes or what you decide to do.
myco
-------------------
> This is interfering with my job.
>
> I know this SE goes away after a few weeks, but I'm not sure I can afford it right now.
>
> I'm considering aborting the nardil for now and then trying it later, like when I have some vacation time or something.
>
> At 15mg 1x a day, how long will the spaciness last? If more than a few days I think I will abort...
Posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 24, 2009, at 18:40:40
In reply to Re: Total lack of concetration now... » TriedEveryDrug, posted by myco on March 24, 2009, at 18:16:18
Hi myco,
Thanks for your advice. I did like you said - packed the BP gauge away, not going to look at it again.
Aleve took the headaches away.As far as dosing, my doc told me to do 15mg/day for 4 days, then 45mg/day TID after that. Really the only sides I have right now are the headaches and the spaciness, which seems to come and go. So I really can't complain.
Thanks again.
oh, when do the cheese cravings go away? :D
Posted by myco on March 24, 2009, at 18:57:51
In reply to Re: Total lack of concetration now... » myco, posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 24, 2009, at 18:40:40
If you have any questions about sides let me know...I'm not a nardil expert or "veteren" but I consider myself an extremely observant person...I pay close attention to side effects and record everything including lengths of time lasted and number of times etc....believe it or not I have noticed that nardil's side effects (for me anyway) come in 2 week "cycles"....literally the sides are in order for me (like a cycle) and the two week cycle ends with a big GABA punch that puts me on the couch for a day or 2 in a state of complete relaxation...when this occurs I know within 2 days the med will be fully "kicked in" at that dose and I will be virtually side effect free...until I raise or lower dose of course.
Spaceyness is an interesting term...does it relate to dizzyness or somnolance for you? When I think of spacey I think just plain "out of it" like wave a hand in front of my face yoohoo anybody home lol is that what you mean? Nardil did do this to me initially in the early beginnings.
Mild headaches will be your shadow for a lil while...dizzyness is most likely to be your "best friend" when you get higher than 15mg but dont worry...again all this stuff goes away except insomnia and a lil weight.
I know it's tough to keep to a med when you risk trouble at work but try your best...I always encourage people to stick with their meds as best they can unless health or financial issues (job included) prevent proper administration of medication. Your dr wants nardil for a reason I'm sure so do try to give it a "good go" before you bail...you may have found a real winner, you wont know unless you try right? lol man that sounds corny...but seriously
----------------
> Hi myco,
>
> Thanks for your advice. I did like you said - packed the BP gauge away, not going to look at it again.
>
>
> Aleve took the headaches away.
>
> As far as dosing, my doc told me to do 15mg/day for 4 days, then 45mg/day TID after that. Really the only sides I have right now are the headaches and the spaciness, which seems to come and go. So I really can't complain.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> oh, when do the cheese cravings go away? :D
Posted by myco on March 24, 2009, at 19:00:25
In reply to Re: Total lack of concetration now... » TriedEveryDrug, posted by myco on March 24, 2009, at 18:57:51
oh also....side effects and good and bad days will go up and down up and down like a saw pattern ... never constant until you reach a stable dose for sufficient time. Just when you thought you may have rid a side effect out it may come back again....just be prepared for ups and downs and dizzy fog all around before it clears and the med makes it seem all worth while
> If you have any questions about sides let me know...I'm not a nardil expert or "veteren" but I consider myself an extremely observant person...I pay close attention to side effects and record everything including lengths of time lasted and number of times etc....believe it or not I have noticed that nardil's side effects (for me anyway) come in 2 week "cycles"....literally the sides are in order for me (like a cycle) and the two week cycle ends with a big GABA punch that puts me on the couch for a day or 2 in a state of complete relaxation...when this occurs I know within 2 days the med will be fully "kicked in" at that dose and I will be virtually side effect free...until I raise or lower dose of course.
>
> Spaceyness is an interesting term...does it relate to dizzyness or somnolance for you? When I think of spacey I think just plain "out of it" like wave a hand in front of my face yoohoo anybody home lol is that what you mean? Nardil did do this to me initially in the early beginnings.
>
> Mild headaches will be your shadow for a lil while...dizzyness is most likely to be your "best friend" when you get higher than 15mg but dont worry...again all this stuff goes away except insomnia and a lil weight.
>
> I know it's tough to keep to a med when you risk trouble at work but try your best...I always encourage people to stick with their meds as best they can unless health or financial issues (job included) prevent proper administration of medication. Your dr wants nardil for a reason I'm sure so do try to give it a "good go" before you bail...you may have found a real winner, you wont know unless you try right? lol man that sounds corny...but seriously
>
>
>
> ----------------
>
>
>
> > Hi myco,
> >
> > Thanks for your advice. I did like you said - packed the BP gauge away, not going to look at it again.
> >
> >
> > Aleve took the headaches away.
> >
> > As far as dosing, my doc told me to do 15mg/day for 4 days, then 45mg/day TID after that. Really the only sides I have right now are the headaches and the spaciness, which seems to come and go. So I really can't complain.
> >
> > Thanks again.
> >
> > oh, when do the cheese cravings go away? :D
>
>
Posted by g_g_g_unit on March 25, 2009, at 20:57:05
In reply to Re: Total lack of concetration now... » myco, posted by myco on March 24, 2009, at 19:00:25
another question Myco - did you find that the issue of weight stabilized or was it something you to make an effort to fight while you were on the drug? even exercising 1+ hours everyday i've gained 5 pounds over the past couple weeks. my guess is it's mainly the water retention + constipation (given the belly i mentioned in another thread). i went to a pharmacy today to pick up a mild laxative to use every so often to 'clear out' my system, and they also offered me an OTC herbal formula for fluid retention, though i'm not sure it'll be strong enough. i'm not particularly concerned about the weight gain itself; more that the tight-wad in me would prefer to not have to go out and buy new pants
Posted by myco on March 25, 2009, at 22:52:14
In reply to Re: Total lack of concetration now..., posted by g_g_g_unit on March 25, 2009, at 20:57:05
The weight is a creeper...it will hit hard in the beginning which is why I personally believe the first 5 pounds or so is water/constipation issues. If you have a really good scale you can watch this fluctuate and it will a lil if the device is sensitive enough to see it. After that first 5 or so pounds there is a steady increase in actual weight. Now some people will pack it on hardcore and fast but it's more common to go up slow...if you spend year on nardil and dont do any cardio/exercise and eat like crap expect to get large (always exceptions though). I had the initial 5lb hit in about 4-5weeks actually, before I even stabilized then it stopped coming on. Then when I hit stable and the dose was perfect for me (75mg), the weight slowly began to creep on and now i'm up about 20lbs. But my diet and issues with lazyness at this time in my life lend to this. I do use cardio as defence and it seems to slow the increase alot...and you can even lose weight but you must adjust diet and lifestyle...these are not typical "depressed" patient skills so they tend to get big quick on nardil. My cardio is only about 3h a week at the moment, on a break also for a case of illness but will get soon. Once you stabilize and sides pass you will be able to handle more exercise. In the beginning dont worry to much, it's tough to work out and start a med. Do a lil research on that herbal for fluid retention ok...nardil doesnt have alot of friends in terms of meds...and some herbals/supplements dont get along well with it at all. lol hey I went up a pant size...that bloody belly of mine lol. Hey if you get to to big consider a moo-moo...a big old maternity like shirt that will cover up any enormousness you might get LOL...jokes. I was scared about weight but it wasnt enough to put me off the med or keep me away from it and it wont be unless I become massive.
> another question Myco - did you find that the issue of weight stabilized or was it something you to make an effort to fight while you were on the drug? even exercising 1+ hours everyday i've gained 5 pounds over the past couple weeks. my guess is it's mainly the water retention + constipation (given the belly i mentioned in another thread). i went to a pharmacy today to pick up a mild laxative to use every so often to 'clear out' my system, and they also offered me an OTC herbal formula for fluid retention, though i'm not sure it'll be strong enough. i'm not particularly concerned about the weight gain itself; more that the tight-wad in me would prefer to not have to go out and buy new pants
Posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 25, 2009, at 23:08:59
In reply to Re: Total lack of concetration now... » g_g_g_unit, posted by myco on March 25, 2009, at 22:52:14
It's weird, since I started this drug monday, all I have wanted to do was go to the gym. I feel energized (yet spacey). I'm thinking about going for a 2nd time today.
I guess everyone is different.
Other meds have had various impact on my desire to exercise.
Effexor, crapbalta, SSRIs - exercise was such a struggle, I got fat.
desipramine - had to exercise to take the edge off the anxiety it caused
adderall, ritalin - could run miles and miles (as one would expect)
Posted by myco on March 25, 2009, at 23:20:45
In reply to Re: nardil and exercise » myco, posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 25, 2009, at 23:08:59
Well nardil is actually more similar to adderall or ritalin than you might think. I believe one of its metabolites is amphetamine-like hense an energy or stimulatory punch for some people. I think this is also the cause of the initial "euphoria" that people get on nardil sometimes when they first start...you are essentially high lol on an amphetamine type reaction when you first start.
myco
-------------------
> It's weird, since I started this drug monday, all I have wanted to do was go to the gym. I feel energized (yet spacey). I'm thinking about going for a 2nd time today.
>
> I guess everyone is different.
>
> Other meds have had various impact on my desire to exercise.
>
> Effexor, crapbalta, SSRIs - exercise was such a struggle, I got fat.
>
> desipramine - had to exercise to take the edge off the anxiety it caused
>
> adderall, ritalin - could run miles and miles (as one would expect)
>
>
Posted by TriedEveryDrug on March 25, 2009, at 23:29:14
In reply to Re: nardil and exercise » TriedEveryDrug, posted by myco on March 25, 2009, at 23:20:45
ahhh, that would explain the spaciness I feel. Adderall turned me into a dope. Couldn't concentrate on reading material, work, etc.
thanks
> Well nardil is actually more similar to adderall or ritalin than you might think. I believe one of its metabolites is amphetamine-like hense an energy or stimulatory punch for some people. I think this is also the cause of the initial "euphoria" that people get on nardil sometimes when they first start...you are essentially high lol on an amphetamine type reaction when you first start.
>
> myco
> -------------------
>
>
> > It's weird, since I started this drug monday, all I have wanted to do was go to the gym. I feel energized (yet spacey). I'm thinking about going for a 2nd time today.
> >
> > I guess everyone is different.
> >
> > Other meds have had various impact on my desire to exercise.
> >
> > Effexor, crapbalta, SSRIs - exercise was such a struggle, I got fat.
> >
> > desipramine - had to exercise to take the edge off the anxiety it caused
> >
> > adderall, ritalin - could run miles and miles (as one would expect)
> >
> >
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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