![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 70 to 94 of 94. Go back in thread:
Posted by detroitpistons on March 13, 2009, at 18:15:09
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis » sukarno, posted by Larry Hoover on March 13, 2009, at 17:53:06
I've always wondered what the difference in effect is between indica and sativa. I've probably smoked them both, but of course, I don't know the difference. Is the sativa the more common strain for recreational users?
> I've never tried Sativex. I have used an oral spray product made from kief (trichomes). It has a very fast effect, which I used when a sudden pain spike had me struggling. The clinic I use had a "tester" product, and I was encouraged to try some before purchasing it. I had to wait a couple of hours before I could drive home.
>
> I get much less psychoactivity from oral consumption, rather than smoking. And the effect is considerably prolonged over smoking, too. I'm going to have to disagree with you on that point.
>
> The clinic I use also makes distinctions between C. sativa and C. indica, the hybrids between them, and thus, the products arising therefrom. They provide named strains, and the difference in effect is quite dramatic across the sativa/indica spectrum. I had no idea, before I had to learn.
>
> Lar
Posted by Sigismund on March 13, 2009, at 18:19:10
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis » Larry Hoover, posted by detroitpistons on March 13, 2009, at 18:15:09
Is there a correlation between the difference between C sativa and C indica and the THC/cannabinoid ratio?
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 13, 2009, at 20:32:38
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Sigismund on March 13, 2009, at 18:19:10
> Is there a correlation between the difference between C sativa and C indica and the THC/cannabinoid ratio?
Well, that's the way they make the distinction at my clinic. The distinction is arbitrary, as they're considered the same species, but different subspecies. Thus, the comparison is between Cannabis sativa sativa and Cannabis sativa indica.
Here's a blurb from my clinic:
"Types of Cannabis:
Marijuana is generally defined as the dried flowers of the hemp plant, Cannabis sativa. The most important distinction for Cannabis sativa varieties is between "Sativa" and "Indica." Their origin and effects are quite different from one another. There is amazing variation in the Cannabis sativa species, and amazing potential for its therapeutic use. The following is a general guide:
Cannabis sativa Indica
Appearance:
- shorter, stockier plant reaching heights of 1-2 metres
- wide, deeply serrated leaves
- dense flower clusters (tight buds)
Effects (lower THC, higher CBN/CBD):- generally more physical than cerebral (however, the relief of physical symptoms can have a positive psychological effect)
- sedation, pain relief and relaxation
- best for later in the day and bedtime
- perhaps better for anxiety than depressionBenefits:
- reduces pain
- muscle relaxant
- relieves spasms, reduces seizures
- reduces inflammation
- aids sleep
- reduces anxiety and stress
- reduces nausea
- stimulates appetite
- relieves headaches and migraines
- reduces intra-occular pressure
- bronchio-dilator and expectorant
Cannabis sativa SativaAppearance:
- taller, lankier, potentially reaching heights of over 5 metres
- narrow serrated leaves
- loose flower clustersEffects (high THC, low CBN/CBD):
- more stimulating and uplifting
- energizing and thought provoking
- increases focus and creativity
- supports immune system
- best for use in daytime
Benefits:- reduces nausea
- stimulates the appetite
- fights depression
- positive, uplifting, cerebral effect
- energizes and stimulates
- promotes creativity
- relieves headaches and migraines
- relaxes muscles, relieves pain
- acts as an expectorant
Selecting the Best Strain and DosageThe efficacy of cannabis is directly related to strain selection. Care should be taken when selecting strains that will benefit you. Potency and dosage vary with different strains, conditions and individuals. The idea is to consume as little as possible of the most appropriately potent strains available in order to reduce costs and potential side effects.
Hybrid Strain Crosses:Most cannabis seeds and medicine available today are from hybrids - crosses of Sativa and Indica varieties. This allows cultivators to enjoy and select for various desired characteristics of growth, appearance and effect. The genetics and hence the effects of one lineage will usually be dominant. For example: Indica-dominant crosses are for pain relief, with the sativa component helping with energy and activity levels. Sativa-dominant crosses are good for stimulating appetite, with the indica component helping to reduce body pain and increase relaxation.
Cannabis has been proven helpful in relieving the symptoms of thousands of conditions, including:- pain from various ailments and injuries
- arthritis, bursitis
- migraines
- multiple sclerosis
- Hepatitis C
- fibromyalgia
- mental/emotional health issues including anxiety, stress, depression, hyperactive and hormonal disorders
- nausea and low appetite
- HIV/AIDS
- cancer and chemotherapy
- crohn's
- muscular dystrophy
- epilepsy. parkinson's,
- asthma, emphysema,
- glaucoma and other intra-ocular disorders
- skin diseases such as pruritis and psoriasis
- back pain and muscle spasms
- paraplegia and quadriplegia
- insomnia and other sleep disorders
Active ingredients: (Cannabinoids)There are approximately 60 identified cannabinoids and each of an infinite number of strains of cannabis has its own cannabinoid profile. The active cannabinoids each have unique physiological effects and many combinations actually appear to have synergystic and antagonistic effects.
Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC):
Euphoric, stimulant, muscle relaxant, anti-epileptic, anti-emetic, anti- inflammatory, appetite stimulating, bronchio-dilating, hypotensive, anti- depressant and analgesic effects.
Cannabidiol (CBD):
Lessens the psychoactive effects of THC, sedative and analgesic effects.
Cannabichromene (CBC):
Promotes the effects of THC and has sedative and analgesic effects.
Cannabigerol (CBG):
Has sedative effects and anti-microbial properties as well as lowering intra-ocular pressure. CBG is the biogenetic precursor of all other cannabinoids.
Cannabinol (CBN):
A mildly psychoactive degradation of THC, it's primary effects are as an anti-epileptic, and to lower intra-ocular pressure.
Systems of Delivery:Smoke it:
Smoking is the most common method used because of convenience, rapid onset, and greater control over dosage. The short-term effects may last up to a few hours. Cannabis may be cut or ground up then rolled into a 'cigarette' or 'joint,' the narrower the better for efficiency. Choose rolling papers that are as thin and narrow as you can manage, made from unbleached hemp or rice, and with non-toxic vegetable- based glue. Pipes and water-pipes are useful for smoking small quantities. Glass pipes are the most hygienic and easiest to keep clean. Water pipes can cool the smoke to ease intake, but their filtering and humidifying effects may be counter-productive.
Vaporize it:
A vaporizer will pass heated air through yourcannabis, releasing the active chemicals without the unwanted heat, destruction of cannabinoids, and by- products of combustion associated with smoking. Hot-air vaporizing is healthier and more efficient than smoking.
Eat it:
This method is effective for people who would rather not smoke, and provides more of a body effect, pain relief, for a longer amount of time. Effects are felt in about an hour and may last up to 8 hours. The active ingredients can be extracted into fat or alcohol, dramatically increasing digestibility and effect. Cannabis infused oils, butters and alcohols can be used in making food laden with THC, substituted wherever a non-potent version is called for, or ingested on their own. A near-empty stomach is best for assimilation and comfort. Cannabis seed is very healthy, high in efficiently digested 'essential fatty acids."
Others:
Alcohol infused 'tinctures,' depending on their base and strength, can be drank, dropped under the tongue (sublingual), or applied topically (as can other preparations). Different people and conditions respond to different methods. In most cases, it is worth-while to determine which system of delivery is the most effective for the individual."
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 13, 2009, at 20:37:19
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis » Larry Hoover, posted by detroitpistons on March 13, 2009, at 18:15:09
The indica/sativa distinction is really at the sub-species level. Most street dope is likely to have an indica heritage, I've been told. Skunk is an indica strain. Most hydroponic pot is indica, because it's compact. Hash-producing strains (in their native Asia) are indica. But the lines are blurry.
Lar
Posted by detroitpistons on March 13, 2009, at 20:51:15
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis » detroitpistons, posted by Larry Hoover on March 13, 2009, at 20:37:19
Interesting....Good info. Thanks.
> The indica/sativa distinction is really at the sub-species level. Most street dope is likely to have an indica heritage, I've been told. Skunk is an indica strain. Most hydroponic pot is indica, because it's compact. Hash-producing strains (in their native Asia) are indica. But the lines are blurry.
>
> Lar
Posted by Sigismund on March 13, 2009, at 21:07:00
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis » sukarno, posted by Larry Hoover on March 13, 2009, at 17:53:06
Some things from memory which may interest you.
"One River" is a great book about Richard Schultz, a Harvard ethnobotanist who explored the Amazon basin looking for psychoactive plants and the ways they were used by the indigenous peoples.
He was so reactionary that he refused to recognise the results of the American War of Independence, and voted for Queen Elizabeth for president in the presidential elections. When he was asked if he wanted to see the Manaus Opera House he refused, saying it was built with the blood of Indians.
Anyway, he was a major authority on cannabis, and during the 60s made himself available free of charge as an expert witness in cases of possession. His evidence was that it was impossible to determine if the sample involved came from cannabis sativa, and since he was the world expert, it worked, at least for a bit.
Posted by Budzoid on March 14, 2009, at 18:54:47
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Sigismund on March 13, 2009, at 21:07:00
Great info., guys. As I live in a state that it is still illegal (Alabama), I have to deal with doctors that refuse to accept the studies that it is "good for what ails you".
It wasn't until I had to quit it to get my pain meds. (pain clinic contract), that I realized just how effective it was for most of my problems.
I thought it made me feel good, now I know why.
Anyway, the decriminalization law has passed the state house of representatives, but came up a couple of votes short in the state senate.
This year they think it may pass.This would be a first for the deep south, which has always been several years behind the times.
Please keep this thread going.
Posted by detroitpistons on March 14, 2009, at 20:50:55
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Budzoid on March 14, 2009, at 18:54:47
Budz,
I'm assuming you've already contacted your state representatives (not that it would do much good)? Hell, maybe you can even start your own grass roots campaign. Things like this can get legs really fast when you're trying to help people in pain...I know, none of this is easy, and it sucks to be in your position.
I'm just curious. When they test you, are they looking for opioids (for confirmation) in addition to the other stuff? In other words, would you be in trouble if your test came back completely clean?
> Great info., guys. As I live in a state that it is still illegal (Alabama), I have to deal with doctors that refuse to accept the studies that it is "good for what ails you".
> It wasn't until I had to quit it to get my pain meds. (pain clinic contract), that I realized just how effective it was for most of my problems.
> I thought it made me feel good, now I know why.
> Anyway, the decriminalization law has passed the state house of representatives, but came up a couple of votes short in the state senate.
> This year they think it may pass.This would be a first for the deep south, which has always been several years behind the times.
> Please keep this thread going.
Posted by Budzoid on March 14, 2009, at 21:39:36
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis » Budzoid, posted by detroitpistons on March 14, 2009, at 20:50:55
> Budz,
>
> I'm assuming you've already contacted your state representatives (not that it would do much good)? Hell, maybe you can even start your own grass roots campaign. Things like this can get legs really fast when you're trying to help people in pain...I know, none of this is easy, and it sucks to be in your position.
>
> I'm just curious. When they test you, are they looking for opioids (for confirmation) in addition to the other stuff? In other words, would you be in trouble if your test came back completely clean?
>
>Thats just it. I'm already on Morphine and oxycodone for the pain.I hate opiates.
If I were allowed to use cannabis, I'm sure I could reduce the opiates.
When I get tested every month, they expect to find opiates and nothing else. No chance to mask the tests. I know this can be done.It's either all or none.
>
> > Great info., guys. As I live in a state that it is still illegal (Alabama), I have to deal with doctors that refuse to accept the studies that it is "good for what ails you".
> > It wasn't until I had to quit it to get my pain meds. (pain clinic contract), that I realized just how effective it was for most of my problems.
> > I thought it made me feel good, now I know why.
> > Anyway, the decriminalization law has passed the state house of representatives, but came up a couple of votes short in the state senate.
> > This year they think it may pass.This would be a first for the deep south, which has always been several years behind the times.
> > Please keep this thread going.
>
>
Posted by Vincent_QC on March 15, 2009, at 11:11:56
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Budzoid on March 8, 2009, at 21:55:21
> You must live in Canada. I don't believe any oral forms are available in the States. (I'm probably wrong, because I recall TV talk show host Montell Williams talking about taking an oral form for his physical problems). I would love to try one of those treatments. I am also living with neuropathy. I would trade any euphoric affects I might get from smoking it, for any pain relief. Because I had to sign a contract that forbids me from using any illegal drugs in order to get the opiates I am now having to take for pain, I have not used in 9 months. I really do not like the opiates. They make me feel bad, but it is the only option I have now to treat my chronic pain. You should feel lucky in that regard.
Hummm that's strange...all those peoples who talks about the pain relief from the "weeds"...or canabis...call it like you want.
I was a heavy "hash" smooker in my teenager years... (before weeds became more popular in the 90's and also more good), For me, it was the first thing I was doing in the morning...and the last thing I was doing before bedtime...I smooke "weeds" from 14yo until 19yo...and with the exception of the euphoric effects as well as the distortion and visual effects, I never get any pain relief on it or feel it...BUT...the "weeds" start on me the beautifull PANIC DISORDER...I begin to experienced panic attack under the influence of the weeds...each time I Was smooking "weeds" I had this strange feeling...like I was able to feel an increase and a wave of anxiety...that ended up as a panic attack... And one day, I begin to do panic attack without smooking "weeds" and it's when I totally became anxious...
My advise...if you never experience any psychotic problem before, or in your family, depression or anxiety is not commun, maybe it can help for the pain relief...but for the others with a potential developpement of problems like depression, social phobia, general anxiety or panic disorder with agoraphobia or not, that's not a good idea...
I remember that my Family Doctor at the time told me it was the worse drug in the world to start a psychotic problem...worse than all the others drugs...harder or not...
Strange cause now, if i'm surrounded with friends who smooke pot around me, I have to leave and go outside to take some deep breath because just the smell of the "weeds' make me starting a panic attack... Anyway..I was out of topic but that's the thruth...Some people claims that "weeds" is not harmfull but i'm sure that's not true...
The best option for pain relief will be probably research about the extraction of the actives chemicals elements who make the weeds potentially efficiently for pain relief...and remove the others things like THC for example, who make this drug untolerable for anxious people...
Posted by Neal on March 15, 2009, at 22:56:20
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis » Budzoid, posted by Vincent_QC on March 15, 2009, at 11:11:56
__
First, let me say I've enjoyed reading the various comments of the contributors to this thread. It got me to thinking about my first experiences with marijuana many years ago.I remember that for the first maybe 10 times I smoked, I would start laughing. I can't remember what I thought was so funny. Maybe just life. But I would get some explosive laughing fits going on. I remember going to a coffee shop with a friend, and I just couldn't control myself, I thought everything was hilarious.
I've always been a very visual person. I work in the visual arts, and marijuana was like a golden key to a special area for me. A friend of mine had a "forest fire" lamp he'd gotten at a thrift store. The heat of the light bulb caused it to spin and the glass was painted to resemble a forest that was burning. I thought that thing was so cool. I would watch it for a long time.
Of course heightened sense perceptions also occurs with sounds too. I remember laying on the couch with the earphones on listening to the stereo. A whole new world had opened up to me during that period.
I remember smoking hash that was so strong that if you smoked at noon, the next thing you remembered was the sun going down, and it was summer too. We'd just sit there sometimes with the TV on, and it was too much effort to change the channel, so we just left it on one channel, what difference did it make anyway.
But Vincent reminds me that there were some other times much later that weren't so great, starting with the famous pot-paranoia and moving to pot induced panic attacks. It can happen, if you are a sensitive person given to occasional anxiety. That's why I don't recommend it, even though I do have some great memories.
__
Posted by Vincent_QC on March 16, 2009, at 7:03:52
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Neal on March 15, 2009, at 22:56:20
> __
>
>
> First, let me say I've enjoyed reading the various comments of the contributors to this thread. It got me to thinking about my first experiences with marijuana many years ago.
>
> I remember that for the first maybe 10 times I smoked, I would start laughing. I can't remember what I thought was so funny. Maybe just life. But I would get some explosive laughing fits going on. I remember going to a coffee shop with a friend, and I just couldn't control myself, I thought everything was hilarious.
>
> I've always been a very visual person. I work in the visual arts, and marijuana was like a golden key to a special area for me. A friend of mine had a "forest fire" lamp he'd gotten at a thrift store. The heat of the light bulb caused it to spin and the glass was painted to resemble a forest that was burning. I thought that thing was so cool. I would watch it for a long time.
>
> Of course heightened sense perceptions also occurs with sounds too. I remember laying on the couch with the earphones on listening to the stereo. A whole new world had opened up to me during that period.
>
> I remember smoking hash that was so strong that if you smoked at noon, the next thing you remembered was the sun going down, and it was summer too. We'd just sit there sometimes with the TV on, and it was too much effort to change the channel, so we just left it on one channel, what difference did it make anyway.
>
> But Vincent reminds me that there were some other times much later that weren't so great, starting with the famous pot-paranoia and moving to pot induced panic attacks. It can happen, if you are a sensitive person given to occasional anxiety. That's why I don't recommend it, even though I do have some great memories.
>Hi Neal,
Wow...you explain so well what I wanted to said. The "visual" effect of Cannabis don't affect all of those who smooke hash. I just think I was a lot to sensible to it and I also had GREAT time smooking hash when I was a teenager. In fact, that's probably why i'm in life right now, because with that, I was able to forget my misery life and the way people was treating me at school...I was also a lot against all forms of authorities, I mean that I was a lot rebel as well...because the adults at the times always point me as THE only one responsable for what I was living...they never think that the others kids was "bitchy" with me...so drugs was my best friend and I was able to focus on other things with the use of it...and I did a lot of great trips on it...At the time, we had also strong hash...we calling it "Jamaican" hash...it was more expensive but only 2 smalls balls of it, smooke with two heated knifes (don't know the exact expression in english but in french we call this "Blaster")...anyway, 2 "puff" of this hash was giving 4 hours of non-stop astral and visual trip...with a lof of visuals effects and also an improved sound effects... I have so many great memories about this experiences... I was smooking hash before bedtime and jump into my bed and put an old LP of Pink Floyd like "The dark side of the moon" or something like Genesis "Peter Gabriel period of course" and just enjoy the music and let me fall in a deep sleep...with this lovely sensation of entering inside my mattresses...that's was very nice...I don't regret that time, in fact it miss me a lot and in fact when I begin to feel the completely oposite effect around 19 years old, I was frustrated because I was not able to have good trips like I had before...I also had a lot of REAL COOL trips on LSD as well, better than the hash...
LSD was the drug of choice for the visual effects and strange sounding effects, for an artist like you, it will probably make you a lot creative and inpired!!! When i'm talking about LSD, i'm talking about pure LSD, not the ones who begin to surfaced in the 90's and who was cut with speed and others dangerous stuff like that...
BUT you're right...for people like me, who are more sensible to anxiety, the pot-paranoia and the LSD bad trip are often present... my last trip on LSD at 19 yo was a 12 hours non-stop of panic attack...I remember that at one point, I wanted to jump into the pool and just die under the water... Can you imagine, I see things that never happen...I talk with trees... I ear the winds talking to me, the streets turned into waters with waves...it was crazy as hell but I admit I find a lot of creativity into this kind of experiences...I understand at the same time what the 60's generation wanted to express at the time...
Sometimes, to start the LSD more faster, I had the very bad habit of smooking some hash after 30 minutes I taked the small LSD pills. We had strong LSD at the time, around 1989-90...the tangerine ones or the black ones was the most potent of all of them...12 hours for the tangerine and 18-24 hours for the black...
I know, some people will told me that I played with the fire and that now I pay for this substances abuses...but I think that's not true... I just had a more sensitive personnality or genetic that let me fall into the circle of bad anxiety and panic trouble but I had the most rewarding experiences of my life on drugs, especially the LSD, who was my drug of choice...the friday was my LSD day in 12th grades...lol
I know a lot of others people who was around me at the time (89-90-91-92) and who used the same drugs also often like I was doing and they never had any psychologic or psychotic problems...some of them are now Doctors, others work as teatchers...things like that...
Anyway...it was the good old time...now, street drugs are just worse, the crystal meth, speed, exctasy...that's all b*llsh*t... even people with no "genetic" or no anxiety problems to start, will ended up with depressive symptoms and anxiety or psychotics crisis after taking them... The same apply for the "weeds"...it's so potent now, I wonder how someone can smooke it without having a major panic attack. They don't seem to lost their head and have some depersonalisation or loose of reality on it...that's weird... I Can't imagine me smooking weeds now...
Sure, I miss that good old time, but since than I move on, I loose interest into drugs and beging to drink more later in my life...but again I stop it, i'm now free of any drugs or alcohol since june 2006...but I will never forgive the goods moments I had on them...You can call it an autodestructive behavior, I call it the better experiences of my life, that's it!!!
Some people can judge me on that, I don't care, they will never understand me anyway...
Posted by Budzoid on March 16, 2009, at 20:05:34
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis » Neal, posted by Vincent_QC on March 16, 2009, at 7:03:52
> > __
> >
> >
> > First, let me say I've enjoyed reading the various comments of the contributors to this thread. It got me to thinking about my first experiences with marijuana many years ago.
> >
> > I remember that for the first maybe 10 times I smoked, I would start laughing. I can't remember what I thought was so funny. Maybe just life. But I would get some explosive laughing fits going on. I remember going to a coffee shop with a friend, and I just couldn't control myself, I thought everything was hilarious.
> >
> > I've always been a very visual person. I work in the visual arts, and marijuana was like a golden key to a special area for me. A friend of mine had a "forest fire" lamp he'd gotten at a thrift store. The heat of the light bulb caused it to spin and the glass was painted to resemble a forest that was burning. I thought that thing was so cool. I would watch it for a long time.
> >
> > Of course heightened sense perceptions also occurs with sounds too. I remember laying on the couch with the earphones on listening to the stereo. A whole new world had opened up to me during that period.
> >
> > I remember smoking hash that was so strong that if you smoked at noon, the next thing you remembered was the sun going down, and it was summer too. We'd just sit there sometimes with the TV on, and it was too much effort to change the channel, so we just left it on one channel, what difference did it make anyway.
> >
> > But Vincent reminds me that there were some other times much later that weren't so great, starting with the famous pot-paranoia and moving to pot induced panic attacks. It can happen, if you are a sensitive person given to occasional anxiety. That's why I don't recommend it, even though I do have some great memories.
> >
>
> Hi Neal,
> Wow...you explain so well what I wanted to said. The "visual" effect of Cannabis don't affect all of those who smooke hash. I just think I was a lot to sensible to it and I also had GREAT time smooking hash when I was a teenager. In fact, that's probably why i'm in life right now, because with that, I was able to forget my misery life and the way people was treating me at school...I was also a lot against all forms of authorities, I mean that I was a lot rebel as well...because the adults at the times always point me as THE only one responsable for what I was living...they never think that the others kids was "bitchy" with me...so drugs was my best friend and I was able to focus on other things with the use of it...and I did a lot of great trips on it...
>
> At the time, we had also strong hash...we calling it "Jamaican" hash...it was more expensive but only 2 smalls balls of it, smooke with two heated knifes (don't know the exact expression in english but in french we call this "Blaster")...anyway, 2 "puff" of this hash was giving 4 hours of non-stop astral and visual trip...with a lof of visuals effects and also an improved sound effects... I have so many great memories about this experiences... I was smooking hash before bedtime and jump into my bed and put an old LP of Pink Floyd like "The dark side of the moon" or something like Genesis "Peter Gabriel period of course" and just enjoy the music and let me fall in a deep sleep...with this lovely sensation of entering inside my mattresses...that's was very nice...I don't regret that time, in fact it miss me a lot and in fact when I begin to feel the completely oposite effect around 19 years old, I was frustrated because I was not able to have good trips like I had before...I also had a lot of REAL COOL trips on LSD as well, better than the hash...
>
> LSD was the drug of choice for the visual effects and strange sounding effects, for an artist like you, it will probably make you a lot creative and inpired!!! When i'm talking about LSD, i'm talking about pure LSD, not the ones who begin to surfaced in the 90's and who was cut with speed and others dangerous stuff like that...
>
> BUT you're right...for people like me, who are more sensible to anxiety, the pot-paranoia and the LSD bad trip are often present... my last trip on LSD at 19 yo was a 12 hours non-stop of panic attack...I remember that at one point, I wanted to jump into the pool and just die under the water... Can you imagine, I see things that never happen...I talk with trees... I ear the winds talking to me, the streets turned into waters with waves...it was crazy as hell but I admit I find a lot of creativity into this kind of experiences...I understand at the same time what the 60's generation wanted to express at the time...
>
> Sometimes, to start the LSD more faster, I had the very bad habit of smooking some hash after 30 minutes I taked the small LSD pills. We had strong LSD at the time, around 1989-90...the tangerine ones or the black ones was the most potent of all of them...12 hours for the tangerine and 18-24 hours for the black...
>
> I know, some people will told me that I played with the fire and that now I pay for this substances abuses...but I think that's not true... I just had a more sensitive personnality or genetic that let me fall into the circle of bad anxiety and panic trouble but I had the most rewarding experiences of my life on drugs, especially the LSD, who was my drug of choice...the friday was my LSD day in 12th grades...lol
>
> I know a lot of others people who was around me at the time (89-90-91-92) and who used the same drugs also often like I was doing and they never had any psychologic or psychotic problems...some of them are now Doctors, others work as teatchers...things like that...
>
> Anyway...it was the good old time...now, street drugs are just worse, the crystal meth, speed, exctasy...that's all b*llsh*t... even people with no "genetic" or no anxiety problems to start, will ended up with depressive symptoms and anxiety or psychotics crisis after taking them... The same apply for the "weeds"...it's so potent now, I wonder how someone can smooke it without having a major panic attack. They don't seem to lost their head and have some depersonalisation or loose of reality on it...that's weird... I Can't imagine me smooking weeds now...
>
> Sure, I miss that good old time, but since than I move on, I loose interest into drugs and beging to drink more later in my life...but again I stop it, i'm now free of any drugs or alcohol since june 2006...but I will never forgive the goods moments I had on them...You can call it an autodestructive behavior, I call it the better experiences of my life, that's it!!!
>
> Some people can judge me on that, I don't care, they will never understand me anyway...
>
> I too share a lot in common. I started smoking in the 70's and can honestly say I had a really good, fun teenage/early adult life. I too look back on those times and wish life was that good now.
I also enjoyed my experimentation into the world of hallucionogens(sp?). The 'cid back then was soo pure. The most mind expanding experience was from "shrooms. My best friend and I did way too much one time and I swear we could read the others mind. We completed each others sentences before we could finish. Ahh, those were the good old days.
Speaking of the Floyd, I spent many a nights with my headphones on listening to them and "wishing I was there". I had my dream come true when they finally came to my town back in '94 and I got to experiance them on some "Beaver & Butthead" blotter. Almost a religious experiance!
Anyway, I haven't done 'cid since then and don't really want to now. Maybe I'm getting old.
Since I don't do those kind of things anymore (including Pot smoking), I can talk about them without fear of consequences. But I still say "those were the best years of my life, gone but not forgotten".
I also think my body is now paying for all good times I had in my youth. But you only live once, why not live it to the fullest.
Posted by Neal on March 16, 2009, at 21:07:02
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Budzoid on March 16, 2009, at 20:05:34
__
Oh yes, well the hash we had was called "Nepalese" although I have my doubts about where it was from. But I'll never forget it. Sense of time just blotto - no sense of time - which was interesting for a while.I wouldn't do any of that stuff now without something like Xanax handy on the table right there. That would be the only way now. But I have no need to seek it out. Just the battle for survival in this economy is scary enough. And for anybody who is contemplating taking some mind altering stuff for the first time - don't. If you're on this board, then don't touch any hallucinogins. Not worth for you.
__
Posted by Budzoid on March 17, 2009, at 20:25:39
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Neal on March 16, 2009, at 21:07:02
> __
>
>
> Oh yes, well the hash we had was called "Nepalese" although I have my doubts about where it was from. But I'll never forget it. Sense of time just blotto - no sense of time - which was interesting for a while.
>
> I wouldn't do any of that stuff now without something like Xanax handy on the table right there. That would be the only way now. But I have no need to seek it out. Just the battle for survival in this economy is scary enough. And for anybody who is contemplating taking some mind altering stuff for the first time - don't. If you're on this board, then don't touch any hallucinogins. Not worth for you.
>
Neal, I agree with you. When I was in the military back in the late 70's-early 80's, I remember some black Afghani' hash that had white streaks running through it (we were told it was opium) that we bought in the Christiansen part of Copenhagen - very dreamy. One matchhead sized ball of that tar was all it took.
As far as the hallucionogens, the stuff 30 years ago compared with the stuff now is like comparing a bottle of Don Perion to bathtub gin. I wouldn't touch it if you gave it to me. I would advise anybody who wanted to try it - DON'T.
Anyway, it's fun to reminence.
Just say no to harmful drugs.
>
> __
Posted by Neal on March 17, 2009, at 22:17:37
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis » Neal, posted by Vincent_QC on March 16, 2009, at 7:03:52
_
It's strange, but when you get older, that stuff just isn't as important to you, assuming you've got a life. I tried recently some stuff that gives you a 5 minute trip. It's OK, the room dances around. but ultimately it's just not that interesting anymore.
And some of the hallucinogens can turn on you and bite you in the *ss. Although some Pdocs are now using Extasy in a therapeutic environment to treat alcoholism and other things, now that the Dems are in power and drug hysteria has abated.
_
Posted by Vincent_QC on March 18, 2009, at 9:08:05
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Budzoid on March 16, 2009, at 20:05:34
> > I too share a lot in common. I started smoking in the 70's and can honestly say I had a really good, fun teenage/early adult life. I too look back on those times and wish life was that good now.
> I also enjoyed my experimentation into the world of hallucionogens(sp?). The 'cid back then was soo pure. The most mind expanding experience was from "shrooms. My best friend and I did way too much one time and I swear we could read the others mind. We completed each others sentences before we could finish. Ahh, those were the good old days.
> Speaking of the Floyd, I spent many a nights with my headphones on listening to them and "wishing I was there". I had my dream come true when they finally came to my town back in '94 and I got to experiance them on some "Beaver & Butthead" blotter. Almost a religious experiance!
> Anyway, I haven't done 'cid since then and don't really want to now. Maybe I'm getting old.
> Since I don't do those kind of things anymore (including Pot smoking), I can talk about them without fear of consequences. But I still say "those were the best years of my life, gone but not forgotten".
> I also think my body is now paying for all good times I had in my youth. But you only live once, why not live it to the fullest.
>
>Yeah, we had strong mush here also back then, around 89-90...if I can remember it's a common mush call "Amanita muscaria" "guessowii" in Notrh America....more yellow than red...muscimol is the things inside them who make them so powerfull with also the iotenic acid and they are link two major neurotransmitters of the central nervous system like the glutamic acid and GABA agnist and NMDA glutamate receptors and certain metabotropic glutamate receptors... So all the hallucination and the psychoactive effects come from this neurons effects... OF course it's toxic in overdose...I found myself at one point having to go to the emergency because I was feeling more sick than on a high trip...a lot of stomach pain, nausea and migraine...that was not fun at all...
I always found pure LSD to be a more nicer and intense trip... Before I begin to do panic attacks when I was using it... 12 hours of panic attacks that'S something you didn't want to experience again trust me!!!
The exctasy share a lot of common things with the LSD as well but it's so blend with a lot of "sh*t" inside" that's it's impossible what is make it so bad...I try it a couple of times and the last time, around 2005, I had a very unpleseant night of panic attacks waves that never ending...I was totally lost and I promise myself that I Will never toutch again a drug, even if it's just smooking pot...anyway just thinking of it make me scare...
The main reason why you canno't do two nights in a row of LSD was probably linked to the fact that LSD use all the serotonin the brains have...so the brain need some time to recover and make newer serotonin neurons...exctasy also as the same mechanism of action...that's probalby why also a lot of people feel drained the week after their trip on LSD or exctasy...with a lot of down and depression like symptoms... so it have to be a lot bad for people like us with anxiety and depressive problems....
I know that I play a lot with fire by doing hallucinogens drugs, but as a teenager, I was not aware that I already had some genetic factors inside me that was just wating to explose and appear... In my familly depression and anxiety problems are a lot present...that's genetic for sure...but sometimes I have some regrets and I wonder if I put me into the situation who I am now??? Maybe if I will never fall into the drug world I wil never begin to have a social phobia, panic attack with agoraphobia, general anxiety and many others psychologics problems like those ones...
Yes, I had fun at the time, but now that's not funny at all... I will never forget the good times I had on those drugs....the world I discover behind it, all the music I listen now is linked with drugs experiences....newer music will never make me feel the way I feel when I put on old LP like The Lamb lies down of Broadway of Genesis for example or something more weird like Gong - Camambert electrique or Gentle Giant - In a glass house ....for example... as well as more heavy music like Sepultura, when they release their "Arise" LP back in 1991, I was a lot into LSD and "pot"...and it was intense...Now when I download a new album from groups like "Muse"...or things like that, it's not the same things...that's not linked to my past memories and the good moments I had...
Anyway, I don'T live in the past, or I try do don't live in the past, but one thing is sure, I will always asking myself if I make things more wrong in my life and I will feel always guilty....I know that I don't have to feel like this, but that's the reality...
I also see some interresting shows...the 94 Floyd tour in Montreal...even if it was Floyd without Roger Waters... I see another real great show of Roger Waters for his 99 world tour...I smooke pot that night and I do a panic attack, but I enjoy my night... Well that'S nice to talk about the past but we are not in the past anymore... It's been a long time since I See a show...I can't stand big crownd and loud music...and see a show , when you take such a high amount of Valium like I do, will be probably just like open the window of my car and put the money outside the car...Understand me??? lol My cognitives functions are so affected now that I can't even watch a TV show without forget it after 30 minutes!!! lol I laught about this situation because anyway even if I just cry, it will change nothing...i'm like this and I have to learn to cope with the life I have now...and it's what I try do to...Life is so short, I wonder why I can't cope with my anxiety and continue to make my own road and succeed in everything I do???
Posted by Neal on March 19, 2009, at 20:31:35
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis » Budzoid, posted by Vincent_QC on March 18, 2009, at 9:08:05
_
I do think some of the hallucinogens have a use - If They Are Used in a Sacred Manner - ie., used as the native-americans used them, in the context of a religious or theraputic atmosphere with a guide who understands and has used the substance many times. Read Aldous Huxleys "DOORS OF PERCEPTION" for an English writer's view while taking hallucinogens. He was an author of a score of books, some on religious experience before he took his first mescaline. So he had some backround to take these things.
Of course, most youths don't have access to guides or psychiatrists who can help them. If this culture's first response to drugs was NOT to make them illegal, we might have such guides. As it is, there still are such people, but you have to look hard and long to find the real thing.
If you don't read, don't know much or just want kicks, you can only learn a limited amount. You're playing with fire, and you may get burned. Bad trips happen. Why not just stick to the drug of your culture, - usually alcohol - because a lot is already know about that. Most college students - that is the drug of choice. Just don't get hooked. If you find yourself drinking more than two nights a week, drinking alone, drinking secretively, you might want to do a reality check, IMO.
_
Posted by detroitpistons on March 30, 2009, at 12:13:03
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Neal on March 19, 2009, at 20:31:35
I still smoke once in a while, and I got ahold of some very nice cannabis this weekend...I have had some pretty intractable insomnia. I have trouble getting to sleep and staying asleep. I take something every night (lately Restoril), and even then, I sometimes wake up and can't get back to sleep....Well, I can say that since having acquired this grade A material, I have fallen asleep and stayed asleep all night, for 3 nights in a row.
I'd much, much, much rather go this route on a long term basis than taking a benzo like Restoril every night. There's really no comparison.
Posted by detroitpistons on March 30, 2009, at 12:29:35
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Neal on March 19, 2009, at 20:31:35
I like this post a lot. Some of the most memorable times in my life have been on hallucinogens, mostly mushrooms, but also LSD. I would do it all over again in a heartbeat.
I remember nights where several of us would trip together and just laugh our a**es off all night! It was just so much fun. We all had the same perspective, and we just bonded more than we normally would. It's like we could read each other's minds.
The mystical/ spiritual aspect of hallucinogens can be really cool. Granted, I might have just been "messed up" and deluding myself, but it really did feel like I could see everything from a different angle, like I could understand things that I otherwise couldn't. "The Doors of Perception" is really a fitting description of the experience.
Hallucinogens should be approached with caution because of the "bad trip" possibility. However, that really only seems to happen when someone doesn't know what to expect, and when they take hallucinogens in the wrong environment and/or with the wrong people. To me, that's the same idea as using a trip guide. The people tripping together would sort of look out for each other.
Fun times!
> I do think some of the hallucinogens have a use - If They Are Used in a Sacred Manner - ie., used as the native-americans used them, in the context of a religious or theraputic atmosphere with a guide who understands and has used the substance many times. Read Aldous Huxleys "DOORS OF PERCEPTION" for an English writer's view while taking hallucinogens. He was an author of a score of books, some on religious experience before he took his first mescaline. So he had some backround to take these things.
>
> Of course, most youths don't have access to guides or psychiatrists who can help them. If this culture's first response to drugs was NOT to make them illegal, we might have such guides. As it is, there still are such people, but you have to look hard and long to find the real thing.
>
> If you don't read, don't know much or just want kicks, you can only learn a limited amount. You're playing with fire, and you may get burned. Bad trips happen. Why not just stick to the drug of your culture, - usually alcohol - because a lot is already know about that. Most college students - that is the drug of choice. Just don't get hooked. If you find yourself drinking more than two nights a week, drinking alone, drinking secretively, you might want to do a reality check, IMO.
>
>
>
>
> _
Posted by Neal on March 30, 2009, at 23:30:38
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis » Neal, posted by detroitpistons on March 30, 2009, at 12:29:35
_
hey detroit,No, you weren't deluded. It sounds like you had a great experience. I think I sounded too preachy in that post; some of the most interesting experiences I ever had was of that nature. Interestingly enough, the native-americans usually took peyote in a group setting like you describe. Sometimes they would gather in a hut and spend the night tripping.
When you are young, everything is new and fun. When you get older, things start piling-up; responsibilities, worries, you name it. And as we know; unexpected little detours sometimes happen. But life is a garden of many varieties.
_
Posted by Garnet71 on April 1, 2009, at 0:03:01
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Neal on March 30, 2009, at 23:30:38
Posted by Garnet71 on April 1, 2009, at 0:06:50
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Garnet71 on April 1, 2009, at 0:03:01
Psychadelic slurpy:
Posted by Neal on April 2, 2009, at 0:25:30
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis, posted by Garnet71 on April 1, 2009, at 0:03:01
_
I think that some of those should be playing right beside Dr. Bob's picture . . we need some cool factor to this site . . some visual candy as it were . .
_
Posted by detroitpistons on June 19, 2009, at 14:04:38
In reply to Re: In Defense of Cannabis » detroitpistons, posted by Budzoid on March 14, 2009, at 21:39:36
Budz,
If you're still around, have you seen this yet? I guess this bill was just reintroduced yesterday. It's not really in the mainstream news....
http://blog.norml.org/2009/06/18/lawmakers-call-for-an-end-to-federal-marijuana-prosecutions/
> > Budz,
> >
> > I'm assuming you've already contacted your state representatives (not that it would do much good)? Hell, maybe you can even start your own grass roots campaign. Things like this can get legs really fast when you're trying to help people in pain...I know, none of this is easy, and it sucks to be in your position.
> >
> > I'm just curious. When they test you, are they looking for opioids (for confirmation) in addition to the other stuff? In other words, would you be in trouble if your test came back completely clean?
> >
> >Thats just it. I'm already on Morphine and oxycodone for the pain.I hate opiates.
> If I were allowed to use cannabis, I'm sure I could reduce the opiates.
> When I get tested every month, they expect to find opiates and nothing else. No chance to mask the tests. I know this can be done.It's either all or none.
> >
> > > Great info., guys. As I live in a state that it is still illegal (Alabama), I have to deal with doctors that refuse to accept the studies that it is "good for what ails you".
> > > It wasn't until I had to quit it to get my pain meds. (pain clinic contract), that I realized just how effective it was for most of my problems.
> > > I thought it made me feel good, now I know why.
> > > Anyway, the decriminalization law has passed the state house of representatives, but came up a couple of votes short in the state senate.
> > > This year they think it may pass.This would be a first for the deep south, which has always been several years behind the times.
> > > Please keep this thread going.
> >
> >
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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