Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 882353

Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

please someone help me with AD or AP?

Posted by B2chica on February 25, 2009, at 8:33:14

i never seem to get responses because my issues are complicated by pregnancy but Please if you can help in anyway, any suggestions, even potential suggestions. i dont care if they are mainstream, alternative, old school, freaking anything at this point.
is there anything that is safe to take during early preg. i am barely in first trimester, almost to second.

my depression has sneaked back during this pregnancy. i spent monday and yesterday in tears. wishing to figure out a way to off myself and let my baby live.
i know i cant do it. i know i wanted this preg. i adore my 2yr old. but any moment that i am not with her i am Very withdrawn and inside myself...thinking, contemplating, just sad.

my pdoc is worth crap, all he says is he will go along with whatever my ob says. and of course she doesn't Rx psych meds.

please someone help me.
...please.

b (

 

Re: please someone help me with AD or AP?

Posted by B2chica on February 25, 2009, at 10:12:41

In reply to please someone help me with AD or AP?, posted by B2chica on February 25, 2009, at 8:33:14

all the data i find is so conflicting.
most reports say that haldol is looking the safest, then i ran into one that states that haldol is still only class C.

SSRI's and MAOI's are out
they mentioned maybe zoloft or prozac but neither work for me anyway.

mentioned some TCA's might be ok.

...i just have no help.
i feel i'm going to be lost for 7 more months.

please...anyone.

 

Re: please someone help me with AD or AP? » B2chica

Posted by myco on February 25, 2009, at 11:14:22

In reply to please someone help me with AD or AP?, posted by B2chica on February 25, 2009, at 8:33:14

hun many of us have read/or are reading your post but the chances you will have anyone weigh in here with real support for a med that is safe with child may be limited. I'd love to help you but I am totally insecure about making a recommendation as none are proven beyond doubt safe with pregnancy (to my knowledge) which is why, i think, your pdoc pushed this on the ob. Can you get second opinions from other dr's about meds? Someone here will speak up at some point i'm sure.

 

Re: please someone help me with AD or AP?

Posted by Phillipa on February 25, 2009, at 11:34:38

In reply to Re: please someone help me with AD or AP? » B2chica, posted by myco on February 25, 2009, at 11:14:22

B2chica there is a babyboard now sure of the website my own Daughter same trimester first child not depressed but she goes there are maybe someone there will have a suggestion. Was it only post partum depression that Brook Shields had? From what I've read must weight benefits to child is it healthy for the child for a depressed mother to carry her without treatment. Seriously google meds during depression on a babyboard. I know my Daughter at 35 is considered high risk and terrified as the blood test came back 1:250 for something these are all new tests since I was pregnant. I wish you luck in the search I feel confident you will find the right answer. Love Phillipa

 

Re: please someone help me with AD or AP? » B2chica

Posted by myco on February 25, 2009, at 11:55:41

In reply to please someone help me with AD or AP?, posted by B2chica on February 25, 2009, at 8:33:14

Repost your message here regarding the AD or AP but change the 'subject heading' to include the words "pregnancy" and "safe" and "AD". This will point more knowledgeable people toward you as right now some people may be missing the urgency of your post.

myco

 

Re:please someone help me with AD or AP? » myco

Posted by B2chica on February 25, 2009, at 12:19:21

In reply to Re: please someone help me with AD or AP? » B2chica, posted by myco on February 25, 2009, at 11:14:22

thank you myco, your statement exactly reflects why i know most wont make suggestions.
but i guess im just so freakin frustrated with my pdoc. i mean he's not been much of a doc even to this point, but there are maybe one or two other docs in this town that i would even chance in trying but neither were accepting new patients thats why i have this doc.
he's good "allegedly", but it seems i do most of the 'doctoring' he just goes along with it, i mean at least he listens right (ha).
but now that i NEED a doc to stand in and help and it seems no one is around.

ALSO FRUSTRATING:
-it also seems that no meds are safe (except maybe haldol)
-never been on it, dont know how i'll react
-what about withdrawl if i want to breastfeed
-if i get on a med now will i even beable to get off to breastfeed? looking doubtful.

then i come here with questions that most people ask i just happen to be (with child) and i get nothing.
-unfortunately i would be the exact same way. i wouldnt want to chime in because of the risks of being wrong.

i just dont know what i'm hoping for anymore.
i wish someone would come out of the sky and take all this misery away.

i guess this is my cross, funny it should get worse by today (ash wednesday).

thanks for trying and your support.

 

Re:please someone help me with AD or AP? » B2chica

Posted by myco on February 25, 2009, at 12:34:29

In reply to Re:please someone help me with AD or AP? » myco, posted by B2chica on February 25, 2009, at 12:19:21

Like phillipa suggested...do try a search for boards or sites around where women with similar issues share opinions on meds taken with child. I will make an effort right now to look for you as best I can...this is all I really feel comfy with. You can also try babblemailing some of the "guru's" on here, much more med knowledgeable people, for questions. But again, repost your original post with "pregnancy" and "safe" and "ad" in the subject heading to get more attention. Often posts are passed over as "uninteresting" to people based on the subject heading.

 

Re: please someone help me with AD or AP? » B2chica

Posted by myco on February 25, 2009, at 13:05:18

In reply to please someone help me with AD or AP?, posted by B2chica on February 25, 2009, at 8:33:14

You've probably researched the subject of AD's and pregnancy TONS but here is a good free new (2008) published review of AD's in Perinatal Depression. Although it does state no treatment, med-wise, has been shown totally safe: (link provided below. I can send it to you if doesnt work):

"Perinatal depression: treatment options and dilemmas"

http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/staticContent/HTML/N0/l2/jpn/vol-33/issue-4/pdf/pg302.pdf

Also a new study that is just about to be published suggests "Repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation(rTMS)" is a good choice for mom's depression that has not proven to be harmfull for the baby:

Zhang D & Z Hu. 2009. RTMS may be a good choice for pregnant women with depression. Arch Womens Ment Health. Feb 24. [Epub ahead of print]

Abstract:
"Due to the possible adverse effects on fetus, the treatment of pregnant women with depression is a difficult problem in the field of psychiatry. Repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation (rTMS) was used to treat three pregnant women with depression in the early pregnancy. After systemic treatments, the patient's depressive symptoms significantly relieved, and each of them smoothly provided a healthy baby. Up to now, we have not found that rTMS can be harmful to fetuses. RTMS may be a good choice for pregnant women with depression."


link here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19238519?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

 

Re: please someone help me with AD or AP? » B2chica

Posted by bleauberry on February 25, 2009, at 16:18:31

In reply to please someone help me with AD or AP?, posted by B2chica on February 25, 2009, at 8:33:14

Well, I do believe there are one or two ADs that are pregnancy friendly. I could be wrong. One would have to do some google searching on that topic.

I was trying to think of natural things you could do. I think even St Johns Wort is risky in pregnancy?

Bascially I think it would have to be something that works in harmony with biological function, and a dose size that doesn't dramatically throw things out of the norm.

So that brings me to three ideas.

The first top choice...SAMe. S-Adenosyl-methione. I would not be surprised if even one pill a day would help you. It is just a naturally occuring substance in our bodies. It is well researched for its effectiveness in depression. Doses are usually in the 400mg to 1600mg range, but even a modest 200mg (one pill) has some antidepressant power. It is not just an antidepressant, but healthy for liver, joints, detox, and actually multitudes of bodily functions.

The other two choices would include one or both of 5htp and DL-phenylalanine. But both of those don't have the greatest track record in the real world, occassional miracles, and they are sort of in the realm of drugs in that they change things from the norm quite a bit.

I believe SAMe would be, by a long shot, the one with the most potential, the most power, and also the most benign. It basically supplies molecular methyl groups to donate for thousands of bodily transactions, including making brain neurotransmitters, and making brain receptors more fluid and more receptive. It allows your own body to function at its maximum, without artificially changing things in a dramatic way.

On multiple occassions SAMe has lifted me from the depths usually beginning the second day. There is no long onset time like antidepressants.

Successful antidepressant treatment raises low SAMe levels up to normal. Kind of makes one wonder if all the talk of neurotransmitters is false theory or not, and that addressing things like SAMe levels is what is really happening?

Anyway, keep it natural and in sync with the body's own mechanisms, keep it low, and yet it needs to have impressive antidepressant power. SAMe was the only one I could think of that fits that description. It is basically a healthy supplement overall even without symptoms of anything.

It has two drawbacks. First, it can be a bit on the stimulating side when first starting, and second, it is in the neighborhood of $30 to $60 for a one month supply. On the good side, it is healthy for liver, joints, stomach lining, detox systems, immune system, brain receptors, and happens to be a pretty good and fast antidepressant.

I'm sure instructions probably say not to take it in pregnancy, but that is because if they don't know, they have to say that to protect their butts.

 

Re: AD or AP during pregnancy » bleauberry

Posted by B2chica on February 26, 2009, at 7:51:46

In reply to Re: please someone help me with AD or AP? » B2chica, posted by bleauberry on February 25, 2009, at 16:18:31

bleauberry THANK YOU so much. this is EXACTLY what i am looking for.

and to all, don't worry i will always double check with my OB as to if there are any issues i should worry about.
but since no dr. is handing out suggestions, i needed help from SOMEONE.

i think SAMe just might be an option.
it seems the mornings are the worst (normally when i cry or are really teary) and afternoons get better.
so even if it is just a little something, might be just enough.

and as for the caution, i think ALL meds OTC and Rx no matter even if they're safe say dont take during pregnancy (or consult dr. first)....
so i'm used to that. and actually understand why they all say that.

********************
Thank you. so much. if nothing else you've given me some hope.
b2c.

 

Re: please someone help me with AD or AP? » bleauberry

Posted by myco on February 26, 2009, at 10:00:06

In reply to Re: please someone help me with AD or AP? » B2chica, posted by bleauberry on February 25, 2009, at 16:18:31

Great suggestions here...I luv the herbal route.

myco

 

Re: AD or AP during pregnancy » B2chica

Posted by bleauberry on February 26, 2009, at 17:40:45

In reply to Re: AD or AP during pregnancy » bleauberry, posted by B2chica on February 26, 2009, at 7:51:46

The link at the end of this post is a detailed study of SAMe in HIV patients with depression. It's weakness is that it was a small trial with no placebo and no comparator drug. However, results were astounding and there are charts from week to week showing the improvement. The overall remission rate in those who finished the study was 93% with scores of less than 7 on the depression test when they had started in the 30's.

It has a lot of detail that is encouraging to get to know a little bit more about SAMe and its functions. It raises hope because it did so well with other people, so why not us?

No one knows exactly how supplementing SAMe heps, just that it does. Fibromyalgia, pain, aggression, depression, fatigue, liver function, joints, detoxing toxins. It is beneficial body-wide.

It can spark mania, though in all the studies I've looked at it didn't appear to have any higher risk at that than any other drug choice.

Personal experience...
3 days ago I took 200mg SAMe. That day I felt irritated, agitated, more energy, warmer, less appetite, amazing disappearance of pains, disappearance of cramping leg muscles, no mood boost. Sweet and sour. I woke with a bad headache, kind of out of it, took another 200mg, and about 2 hours into work I realized I was feeling a lot better than I am accustomed to, both physically and emotionally. I think I overdid it, because I konked out at the end of the day similar to an Adderall crash.

Granted, to stick with it, I need to bear with some start-up headache stuff in the morning, maybe a little lessened appetite, and maybe a slight sense of uneasiness at times, and a second dose in the afternoon probably. I do believe those side effects, as with any supplement or drug, would disappear in 1 to 4 weeks. Start-up of anything can be a trying transition period, especially for someone sensitive like me.

I've never had any drug, herb, or supplement, help in so many ways so fast. In the study linked, there was great improvement already at just one week. I felt that. Not just in mind, but body. Pains and cramps gone. Amazing.

As for a baby's safety, I cannot imagine how adding some methyl donors to our bodily functions would hurt, probably only help, and maybe our methylation is already poor to begin with and we are just restoring it to normal which makes a healthier baby?

One thing for sure, depression is harmful to a baby, almost as much as arsenic or mercury. SAMe looks pretty good to me.

You mentioned antipsychotics. If you have any anxiety, paranoia, schizo symptoms to deal with, I do not know how SAMe will help or hurt those, only that in one study aggression in schizophrenic patients was reduced with SAMe.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=535560

 

Re: AD or AP during pregnancy » bleauberry

Posted by B2chica on February 27, 2009, at 7:46:07

In reply to Re: AD or AP during pregnancy » B2chica, posted by bleauberry on February 26, 2009, at 17:40:45

bleauberry. you are so great.
this article had lots of good info for me in it.

i've got a call into my OB's office now, just waiting to hear back.
i'm going out of town this weekend but i might be able to start it next tuesday.

and as for AP, i ask mostly cuz zyprexa is my miracle drug mostly for my depression. but i have whats considered psychotic depression so it only gets weird when my depression gets bad, as of now i am hearing odd things now and again but its the kind of "what was that?, did you hear that? kind of things. no voices or anything.
but i guess since zyprexa worked and my last pdoc had mentioned haldol during pregnancy if needed i guess thats mainly what i was wondering about.
but i know how potent haldol is, plus i've never been on it so i wonder how i'd react, plus if i'd get off it very easily...etc.

just more stresses i'd rather not worry about. i'm anxious to hear about SAMe, sounds like there shouldn't be any issues.
oh and also thanks for the info about the headaches, always good to know any possible SE.

be well!
b2c.

 

Re: AD or AP during pregnancy_bleauberry

Posted by B2chica on February 27, 2009, at 12:13:23

In reply to Re: AD or AP during pregnancy » bleauberry, posted by B2chica on February 27, 2009, at 7:46:07

just heard back from the nurse.
my doc is out till monday so she'll ask her then, but she thought most herbals were ok.

but i also haven't cried today, and only a little teary, not much.

i have hope.

i just can't thank you enough for your support and effort. thank you.

b2c.

 

Re: AD or AP during pregnancy_bleauberry

Posted by desolationrower on February 27, 2009, at 19:42:17

In reply to Re: AD or AP during pregnancy_bleauberry, posted by B2chica on February 27, 2009, at 12:13:23

hm, if you haven't, i'd say the best thing woudl be make sure nutrition is ok, as that will improve health of baby. this may all be stuff already aware of.

most importantly, i think fish oil. human brains are some huge percentage omega-3 fat, and so in gestation hte baby's brain growth is very demanding on omega-3 fats, and the greatest store most mothers have is in their own brain. several grams, look for filtered to make sure metal content is safe. also vitamin d would be important, if you haven't been tkaing it or getting lots of sun in southern lattitude start 5000IU/day. i think folates and vitamin K are recommended for all pregnancies?

i agree SAMe would be the safest choice of the antidepressant drugs. i can't say what changing methylation woudl do or that its ok, but SAMe has been used as a treatment for intrahepatic cholestasis in pregnancy without adverse effect (it doesn't appear effective for this, either, but i'm just metioning for its safety)

-d/r

 

Re: AD or AP during pregnancy_B2C

Posted by rskontos on February 28, 2009, at 18:04:18

In reply to Re: AD or AP during pregnancy_bleauberry, posted by desolationrower on February 27, 2009, at 19:42:17

B2c

I think bleauberry had good advice as well a d/r about vitamin d, folate (B complexs) and omega 3.

I have found a nice powder form of one type of supplements that has all you need in it. I mix with water and drink. I found that the powder versions or liquid will also help a unsettled tummy in case you get that too during pregnancy.

So if you need to know that omega 3 comes in oil form you can mix with salad dressing and put on a salad.

If you decide to add those. I do know there are good many studies regarding the necessary amounts of Omega 3 most people are lacking in diet.

take care

rsk



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