Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 881215

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Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » g_g_g_unit

Posted by myco on February 20, 2009, at 0:14:41

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2009, at 0:07:54

Hey,

Don't give up on nardil yet, youre almost there. Perhaps a few more weeks for you at 60mg...for me the end of "the side effect cycle" (and I call it one because it was predictable and pretty much in order - i know weird) was indicated by one hell of a gaba kick...hardcore muscle relaxation to the point of woh, I need to lay down for a bit. That would last 2 or 3 days then the fog and clouds would lift and wow, everything was different. I'd say if youve been at 60mg for a total of 4 weeks and still not happy go to 75 then again wait for that kick...move up again if you can handle the side effects after 4-6 weeks.
It's a great med if it works for you

myco

> this was something i had been worrying about as well. i've been at 60mg for 2 weeks now and things are improving a little, though i'm debating whether to stay on nardil. admittedly it was a lot worse during start up; i found it really hard to focus, and like you say almost impossible to read. the foggyness has definitely cleared up, though my memory is still bad

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by Jeroen on February 20, 2009, at 5:31:14

In reply to Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by n_wolfie on February 19, 2009, at 23:23:37

lamictal is a dangerous drug in my opinion

trying to replace antipsychotic medicine

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » n_wolfie

Posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 6:08:01

In reply to Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by n_wolfie on February 19, 2009, at 23:23:37

Your problems are most likely due to your taking such a high dosage of Lamictal with the Nardil. My recommendation is to lower the Lamictal slowly to 200mg. As you reduce the dosage, be prepared that you might have very short dips of depression. It is a rebound effect and not a relapse. You will find that you retain the positive effects of Lamictal and your head will clear up substantially.


- Scott

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2009, at 6:45:13

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » g_g_g_unit, posted by myco on February 20, 2009, at 0:14:41

> Hey,
>
> Don't give up on nardil yet, youre almost there. Perhaps a few more weeks for you at 60mg...for me the end of "the side effect cycle" (and I call it one because it was predictable and pretty much in order - i know weird) was indicated by one hell of a gaba kick...hardcore muscle relaxation to the point of woh, I need to lay down for a bit. That would last 2 or 3 days then the fog and clouds would lift and wow, everything was different. I'd say if youve been at 60mg for a total of 4 weeks and still not happy go to 75 then again wait for that kick...move up again if you can handle the side effects after 4-6 weeks.
> It's a great med if it works for you
>
> myco
>
>
>
> > this was something i had been worrying about as well. i've been at 60mg for 2 weeks now and things are improving a little, though i'm debating whether to stay on nardil. admittedly it was a lot worse during start up; i found it really hard to focus, and like you say almost impossible to read. the foggyness has definitely cleared up, though my memory is still bad
>
>

hey thanks for your advice,

just debating whether i should stay on meds at all given the way i think ssri's have caused a lot more problems for me than i began with (have always had intense OCD, though am in therapy at the moment and think a lot of the symptoms i went on nardil for were a kind of prolonged withdrawal that i failed to recognise at the time). can definitely feel the 'gaba kick' - as i described in another post, i feel an almost serene relaxation/indifference towards things, though yet to feel the associated motivation/nardil 'kick in'. will give it another couple weeks @ 60mg and then reassess how i feel. ps. if anyone's reading this, is anyone aware of possible interactions between b6 and nardil? i realise depletes b6 and began supplementing a couple nights ago. i had been for a walk late at night, around 9pm and came home to stretch, and after taking b6 and lying down, suddenly blacked out while performing a strech against the wall. i haven;t blacked out so far, so was quite scared about what happened ... it was like a sudden rush/tingling feeling to the head, then i suddenly blacked out for a second or two, and felt ok. never fell the to the ground, etc.

g

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2009, at 6:50:41

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2009, at 6:45:13

also, my reluctance about whether to continue is not straight forward. i am sleeping 3 hours a night, experiencing blood sugar destablisation, intense hunger, physical fatigue, dry mouth. if these symptoms abate then it would be helpful

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » g_g_g_unit

Posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 6:56:47

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2009, at 6:45:13

> just debating whether i should stay on meds at all given the way i think ssri's have caused a lot more problems for me than i began with

I believe that MAOIs are less harsh on the system than reuptake inhibitors. I don't think they flood and overwhelm the receptors as much. I would not be so afraid of Nardil doing any permanent damage.

> (have always had intense OCD, though am in therapy at the moment and think a lot of the symptoms i went on nardil for were a kind of prolonged withdrawal that i failed to recognise at the time).

Withdrawal from an SSRI?

Yes, hypotension can be problematic with Nardil. If the drug helps you, it might be worth taking Florinef to bring your blood pressure up. I will say this, though. For me, the hypotension got better the longer I was on the drug. I took 90mg and did not need Florinef. I never came close to passing out at that dosage, but you do have to let your body get used to the drug. Even orgasms return after a few months for those who have problems early in treatment. The longer you take an MAOI, the cleaner they get. This has been my experience that I see repeated in others.

I know OCD takes higher dosages of SRIs and longer to obtain a response. The same might be true of Nardil. Some people don't get an optimum response until they reach a ratio of 1mg drug / 1kg body weight. If one were to weigh 165 pounds, 75mg might be necessary.


- Scott

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2009, at 7:15:18

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » g_g_g_unit, posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 6:56:47

> > just debating whether i should stay on meds at all given the way i think ssri's have caused a lot more problems for me than i began with
>
> I believe that MAOIs are less harsh on the system than reuptake inhibitors. I don't think they flood and overwhelm the receptors as much. I would not be so afraid of Nardil doing any permanent damage.

that's reassuring to hear
>
> > (have always had intense OCD, though am in therapy at the moment and think a lot of the symptoms i went on nardil for were a kind of prolonged withdrawal that i failed to recognise at the time).
>
> Withdrawal from an SSRI?

is that skepticism on your part? for the duration of 2008 i was never off an ssri for longer than 2 weeks. around january 2008 i experienced the most intense exasperation of my OCD symptoms while on 30mg a day of remeron (strangely, the second drug i was placed on for OCD after paxil) failed. i was left alone by my family and came close to suicide, and applied for submission to a private psychiatric hospital. once they returned i felt ok and quite cold turkey, but suddenly fell into a brain fog. i was reassure by my pdoc that what i was experiencing was normal depression and was placed on prozac. i failed to find an SSRI that alleviated my OCD symptoms while allowing me to function as a writer. each time i would withdraw from an SSRI and be assured that 2 weeks was sufficient time for the SSRI to clear from my system, resulting in placement on another (around 5 in total). around november i fell into a deep state of suicide - i felt emotionally numb, cognitively dysfunctional, socially incompetent, depersonalised. i lost my job working for one of the most prolific political magazines in my country. i realise i have an underlying condition yet these were not symptoms i experienced before i was placed on SSRI's; previously i was highly functional yet also stricken by ocd. i realise this may provoke skepticism on your part, as it has on any doctors i've described my symptoms to. i am currently dealing with an OCD specialist for regular therapy and meeting with a GP who deals in alternative vitamin therapy next week. if there is some way for me to stay of meds then that may be ideal ...
>
> Yes, hypotension can be problematic with Nardil. If the drug helps you, it might be worth taking Florinef to bring your blood pressure up. I will say this, though. For me, the hypotension got better the longer I was on the drug. I took 90mg and did not need Florinef. I never came close to passing out at that dosage, but you do have to let your body get used to the drug. Even orgasms return after a few months for those who have problems early in treatment. The longer you take an MAOI, the cleaner they get. This has been my experience that I see repeated in others.
>
> I know OCD takes higher dosages of SRIs and longer to obtain a response. The same might be true of Nardil. Some people don't get an optimum response until they reach a ratio of 1mg drug / 1kg body weight. If one were to weigh 165 pounds, 75mg might be necessary.
>
>
> - Scott

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2009, at 7:17:37

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2009, at 7:15:18

also i weigh 64kg and am currenly at 60mg per day, like a mentioned, so hopefully that is a sufficient therapeutic dosage.

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by vaxerdec on February 20, 2009, at 7:58:43

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2009, at 6:45:13

g_g_g_unit said:
> and after [...] lying down, suddenly blacked out
> while performing a strech against the wall. i
> haven;t blacked out so far, so was quite scared about
> what happened ... it was like a sudden rush/tingling
> feeling to the head, then i suddenly blacked out for
> a second or two, and felt ok. never fell the to the
> ground, etc.

I find two related common effects with Nardil:

(1) In the morning, and especially on a high dosage or
after staying awake for a while on the stuff (which
requires increasingly more to sustain as time goes on)
there are symptoms of oxygen deprivation that appear
very quickly upon sudden changes in blood distribution,
i.e. going from laying down to standing or the reverse.
I've learned to just walk around in this daze as it
subsides. And take more to make it go away faster :)
This is a common, well-documented side effect of Nardil
but just keep taking it.

(2) while either increasing or decreasing a
steady-state dosage, and especially at startup, I tend
to get these weird sudden instances of complete vertigo
that go like "snap" in my head and last for less than
two seconds before another "snap" and it turns off.
This is a very strange symptom, it's like going
instantly from normal to completely disorientation, but
lasts only for like a second. There seems to be a
direct relationship between dosage delta and the
frequency of these weird vertigo snaps. I always
wondered if anyone experienced them...

I found that almost all my symptoms from Nardil go away
with time (although this can take several months) and
it's important to steady-state intake or the fluctuation
makes everything go out of whack. Personally, I need
quite a few extra per month too because I take a whole
bunch prior to events where there will be known
situational anxiety, such as having to participate in
groupwork in a classroom setting. Some doctors have
tried to tell me it's psychosomatic, which is complete
nonsense: there is a very obvious, rapid effect from
ingesting more of the stuff. I theorize (but have no
actual knowledge) that this corresponds to the release
of adrenaline and noradrenalin which is known to be
emitted from storage vesicles when there are high
levels of MAO in the blood. I swear there also is a
"rush" of dopamine and serotonin that is released -- it
feels very similar to MDMA actually -- but I can't
think of a mechanism for how this works in the mind, so
that part could be bogus. But if I take enough, I will
become manic and want to talk to everyone at once, and
I feel like we all love each other :) Which is
diametrically opposite from how I usually feel: like I
want to run as far away as possible from the observers,
who all hate me and think I'm stupid.

--
Scott

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » g_g_g_unit

Posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 8:31:31

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2009, at 7:15:18

> > > just debating whether i should stay on meds at all given the way i think ssri's have caused a lot more problems for me than i began with

> > I believe that MAOIs are less harsh on the system than reuptake inhibitors. I don't think they flood and overwhelm the receptors as much. I would not be so afraid of Nardil doing any permanent damage.

> that's reassuring to hear

> > > (have always had intense OCD, though am in therapy at the moment and think a lot of the symptoms i went on nardil for were a kind of prolonged withdrawal that i failed to recognise at the time).

> > Withdrawal from an SSRI?

> is that skepticism on your part?

NO! Not at all. I even have an explanation of sorts as to how such a thing can happen. Certainly, Linkadge can provide more insight on the mechanisms that might be responsible for this.

> for the duration of 2008 i was never off an ssri for longer than 2 weeks. around january 2008 i experienced the most intense exasperation of my OCD symptoms while on 30mg a day of remeron

Remeron and OCD do not go well together, it appears from other posts.

I wish you luck in trying treatments alternative to medication.

If you find that you would like to resume looking for a pharmacological treatment, you can look into using memantine (Namenda) for OCD. It is not a reuptake inhibitor, although it might work better when combined with one. You might even be able to take it with Nardil. I found no contraindication for this combination in the drug monograph for memantine. I would first contact Merz, the drug company that manufactures memantine, to see what they have to say about it. I just can't think of any reason why there would be any danger.

Forest Pharmaceuticals
Clinical
800-678-1605 ext 66297


- Scott

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by n_wolfie on February 20, 2009, at 10:28:01

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » n_wolfie, posted by Phillipa on February 19, 2009, at 23:52:41

Thanks Philipa. The Lamictal was working well at 300 mg, then I started to feel shaky, we upped it to 400 mg, same thing, then to 500 mg, then that didn't work so well, then started on Nardil.

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » n_wolfie

Posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 11:25:41

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by n_wolfie on February 20, 2009, at 10:28:01

So, what do you think?


- Scott

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by n_wolfie on February 20, 2009, at 11:58:31

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » n_wolfie, posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 11:25:41

Scott,

I'm a little confused. Do you mean what do I think of the responses to my Nardil issues?

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » n_wolfie

Posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 12:17:59

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by n_wolfie on February 20, 2009, at 11:58:31

> Scott,
>
> I'm a little confused. Do you mean what do I think of the responses to my Nardil issues?


Yes.

I'd really like to see you resolve your cognitive difficulties.

From experience, I can tell you that when you add Nardil to high-dosage Lamictal (>200mg), it *feels* like it is the Nardil because you first feel the synergism after its introduction. If you were on the Nardil first and added the Lamictal, you would swear it was the Lamictal causing the problems.

Lamictal is known to produce significant cognitive and memory impairments in some people, especially at higher dosages. Nardil is not. Nardil *and* Parnate both seem to amplify the Lamictal induced impairments.

I feel pretty sure that were you to lower the Lamictal, your mind would clear up considerably.

One thing weird about Lamictal is that if you reduce the dosage too quickly, you can get a temporary rebound depressive dip that lasts for a fraction of a day. You might want to try avoiding this by reducing the dosage by 25mg every few days. 200mg is the "sweet spot" for this drug when treating depression.

Good luck.


- Scott

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by n_wolfie on February 20, 2009, at 13:09:23

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » n_wolfie, posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 12:17:59

I don't know what to do. But I felt ok, not so bad, last Sunday, I think about 5 days into my nardil. Could I have a neurological problem? should i see a neurologist? should I switch doctors? I've had the same doctor for 8 years, and he's great, one of the premier psychopharmacologists in nyc, researcher, professor at Columbia, but he seems a bit befuddled by this complete cognitive failure. Which scares me. I'm paying him out of pocket @ 200/hr, but I don't have health insurance and can't afford to see a neurologist. My employer is great and patient with my depression issues, but i'm not making enough money in this economy to cover health insurance. But I felt ok, not so bad, last Sunday, I think about 5 days into my nardil.

> > Scott,
> >
> > I'm a little confused. Do you mean what do I think of the responses to my Nardil issues?
>
>
> Yes.
>
> I'd really like to see you resolve your cognitive difficulties.
>
> From experience, I can tell you that when you add Nardil to high-dosage Lamictal (>200mg), it *feels* like it is the Nardil because you first feel the synergism after its introduction. If you were on the Nardil first and added the Lamictal, you would swear it was the Lamictal causing the problems.
>
> Lamictal is known to produce significant cognitive and memory impairments in some people, especially at higher dosages. Nardil is not. Nardil *and* Parnate both seem to amplify the Lamictal induced impairments.
>
> I feel pretty sure that were you to lower the Lamictal, your mind would clear up considerably.
>
> One thing weird about Lamictal is that if you reduce the dosage too quickly, you can get a temporary rebound depressive dip that lasts for a fraction of a day. You might want to try avoiding this by reducing the dosage by 25mg every few days. 200mg is the "sweet spot" for this drug when treating depression.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
> - Scott

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by n_wolfie on February 20, 2009, at 13:39:54

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » n_wolfie, posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 12:17:59

Hi again Scott,

Sorry if I'm driving you nuts. I just keep forgetting to include relevant information in my past posts. Oddly enough, my mood has improved, and I sound fine to everyone- except for the fact that I basically can't find my way around, can't remember what someone told me 1 second ago... Mood does get worse though as day goes on, in typical atypical depression fashion. I don't know. I can relax if I know there is a light at the end of the tunnel and this is temporary. But I'm really afraid I have permanent brain damage from years of meds. It scares me that my doctor seems to finally be grasping at straws- should he be able to diagnosis this, or is the administration ADs a crapshoot sometimes even with the best doctors?

> > Scott,
> >
> > I'm a little confused. Do you mean what do I think of the responses to my Nardil issues?
>
>
> Yes.
>
> I'd really like to see you resolve your cognitive difficulties.
>
> From experience, I can tell you that when you add Nardil to high-dosage Lamictal (>200mg), it *feels* like it is the Nardil because you first feel the synergism after its introduction. If you were on the Nardil first and added the Lamictal, you would swear it was the Lamictal causing the problems.
>
> Lamictal is known to produce significant cognitive and memory impairments in some people, especially at higher dosages. Nardil is not. Nardil *and* Parnate both seem to amplify the Lamictal induced impairments.
>
> I feel pretty sure that were you to lower the Lamictal, your mind would clear up considerably.
>
> One thing weird about Lamictal is that if you reduce the dosage too quickly, you can get a temporary rebound depressive dip that lasts for a fraction of a day. You might want to try avoiding this by reducing the dosage by 25mg every few days. 200mg is the "sweet spot" for this drug when treating depression.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
> - Scott

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » n_wolfie

Posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 15:26:39

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by n_wolfie on February 20, 2009, at 13:39:54

I am almost 100% sure that you need to either reduce the dosage of Lamictal to 200mg or stop taking it altogether.

I don't think there is anything else wrong with you.

I'll keep my fingers crossed.


- Scott

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by Jeroen on February 20, 2009, at 15:35:37

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » n_wolfie, posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 15:26:39

what ive read on board, is that high dose lamictal can impair memory

so that might be the case with you :)
the bad news is it gave me psychosis, thats bad

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by n_wolfie on February 20, 2009, at 15:55:45

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by Jeroen on February 20, 2009, at 15:35:37

OK, so it is possible that a lower dosage improved my memory, and that the higher dosage is interacting with the nardil in a way that it didn't on the lower dose of lamictal? Like the Nardil is potentiating the effect of the Lamictal? I was really helping my memory before at 500, until it stopped working, but when I added the nardil things got bad fast, even though my mood is much better. actually, my mood is fine outside of the anxiety over this memory issue.


> what ive read on board, is that high dose lamictal can impair memory
>
> so that might be the case with you :)
> the bad news is it gave me psychosis, thats bad

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2009, at 15:59:08

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » g_g_g_unit, posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 8:31:31

>
> > > Withdrawal from an SSRI?
>
> > is that skepticism on your part?
>
> NO! Not at all. I even have an explanation of sorts as to how such a thing can happen. Certainly, Linkadge can provide more insight on the mechanisms that might be responsible for this.
>

are you able to go into this at all - less in the interests of scientific theory and more insofar as whether anything can be done to treat it?

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by n_wolfie on February 20, 2009, at 15:59:52

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » n_wolfie, posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 15:26:39

OK, so it is possible that a lower dosage Lamictal improved my memory, and that the higher dosage is interacting with the nardil in a way that it didn't on the lower dose of lamictal? Like the Nardil is potentiating the effect of the Lamictal? I was really helping my memory before at 500, until it stopped working, but when I added the nardil things got bad fast, even though my mood is much better. actually, my mood is fine outside of the anxiety over this memory issue. I don't want to stop taking the lamictal altogehter, it's really stabilized my mood, where the nardil made me feel happier, but seemed to aggravate my bipolar two. also made me extremely hyper. and the amouunt of trazadone i needed to sleep through teh night left me with horrid hangovers. My mood was also very reactive, and I was extremely sensitive to bed events/rejection, and I would sink lower than I ever did when i was taking the lamictal with it. so i can't go back to just the nardil. anyhow, sorry to be so neurotic. have you been through this nardil lamictal nightmare? i just lowered my lamictal dosage, how long do you think it will take to see an effect? I've always needed more lamictal than "normal".

> I am almost 100% sure that you need to either reduce the dosage of Lamictal to 200mg or stop taking it altogether.
>
> I don't think there is anything else wrong with you.
>
> I'll keep my fingers crossed.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory » n_wolfie

Posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 16:13:15

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by n_wolfie on February 20, 2009, at 15:55:45

> OK, so it is possible that a lower dosage improved my memory, and that the higher dosage is interacting with the nardil in a way that it didn't on the lower dose of lamictal?

Yes.

> Like the Nardil is potentiating the effect of the Lamictal?

Yes.

:-)

I think you got it!


- Scott

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 16:26:11

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2009, at 15:59:08

> are you able to go into this at all - less in the interests of scientific theory and more insofar as whether anything can be done to treat it?

Here is the thread on the Withdrawal board dealing with a theory on kindling:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/wdrawl/20050214/msgs/460726.html

As far as what can be done about it, I am less sure of this because no one I know has tried anything other than either return to the offending antidepressant or wait months. I am thinking that anticonvulsants might be useful.

Can you make a list of the symptoms you are currently having?

When you discontinued the offending drug, how did you go about it?

Did you suffer any withdrawal effects? If so, for how long?

How many other drugs have you experienced withdraw symptoms from when you discontinued them?

How long have you been medication free?


- Scott

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 16:45:50

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 16:26:11

Regarding residual withdrawal symptoms:

> I am thinking that anticonvulsants might be useful.

Or perhaps memantine (Namenda).

Perhaps someone on Alternative has some ideas.

Magnesium would be interesting to look at.


- Scott

 

Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory

Posted by g_g_g_unit on February 20, 2009, at 16:46:57

In reply to Re: Nardil cognitive side effects- zero memory, posted by SLS on February 20, 2009, at 16:26:11

> > are you able to go into this at all - less in the interests of scientific theory and more insofar as whether anything can be done to treat it?
>
> Here is the thread on the Withdrawal board dealing with a theory on kindling:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/wdrawl/20050214/msgs/460726.html
>
> As far as what can be done about it, I am less sure of this because no one I know has tried anything other than either return to the offending antidepressant or wait months. I am thinking that anticonvulsants might be useful.
>
> Can you make a list of the symptoms you are currently having?

i guess any symptoms i'm experiencing have been obscured by the nardil. but during december when this began i suffered:

* lack of concentration
* word loss difficulties
* difficulty finishing thoughts when writing (if that makes sense, i.e. while trying to hash out concepts my mind fell into a kind of 'black hole')
*(complete social 'retardation' (sorry can't think of a better word), i.e. i could only interact by asking really basic questions to keep conversation moving. no original thoughts came to mind
* zero emotional affect - i was constantly told i looked really depressed by friends but in truth i felt nothing/empty
*feeling of a blank mind

of course, my OCD kind of latched onto these symptoms, which caused my pdoc to think OCD/anxiety was the cause. but i theorize it more in terms of obsessing about a lost leg (i.e. there is still the matter of the physical trauma that's actually taken place). obviously the line in psychiatry is more blurred than that, but i mean is there has still (in my mind) been some chemical change outside of the OCD's existence

>
> When you discontinued the offending drug, how did you go about it?

the last drug i tried was nortriptyline. i was at a low dose (10mg) so i simply stopped.
>

> Did you suffer any withdrawal effects? If so, for how long?

nothing i can directly link to the nortriptyline. the above mentioned symptoms manifested slowly throughout the course of the year

>
> How many other drugs have you experienced withdraw symptoms from when you discontinued them?

Remeron, quitting cold turkey @ 30mg

for the rest (Luvox @ 100mg, Lexapro @20mg, Prozac @10mg) I tapered

>
> How long have you been medication free?
>

i was medication free from november until i began nardil in january


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