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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Isabelle on February 8, 2009, at 22:22:09
Hi! I just started taking Parnate and, not surprisingly, have questions about what is safe or not.
Here are the things that I currently need help with or can't find evidence to contradict their safety and hope to get some more information on - if you can, please cite your source so I can try to find more info on my own. Thank you, in advance, for your help!
Tahini - seems to be safe, am I correct?
Hummus - also seems safe, correct?
Mozzarella - some places say it's safe, some say unsafe, which is it? I would love to be able to have pizza...
Having a lot of trouble with the bean family - I've read that broad beans and pods are unsafe and from what research I've done I am confused as to what constitutes as a broad bean - are broad beans ONLY fava beans? (this seems to be the case from what I read on wikipedia) If that is so, then why do I sometimes see lists that say broad beans and pods are unsafe and then in parentheses it lists several different types. Are snow peas safe? Lentils?
Also, in some instances I've read that only European chocolate is unsafe and sometimes I've read that all chocolate is safe in limited quantities. What makes European chocolate different/unsafe?
Does someone have a comprehensive list of all the fermented soy products? Like Miso, tempeh, etc. I've figured out that these are not safe but only through research - if I were just to read ingredients/menu items I would have no idea which ones are fermented or not.
How do people here deal with going out to a restaurant? I'm also a vegetarian. I want to be careful and I hope that this medication lets me start to try to enjoy life (in which case I hope to have friends and go out) but I find the idea of restaurants a bit intimidating. Mexican food has lots of cheese, Asian food lots of soy, etc. Anybody have guidance on safe and vegetarian bets for MAOI users in restaurant settings?
I appreciate any and all help! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Posted by Isabelle on February 8, 2009, at 23:47:50
In reply to New MAIO user with questions about food safety, posted by Isabelle on February 8, 2009, at 22:22:09
One more question - whey? Safe, yes? Seems to be a byproduct of cheese and is used to make riccota - I just want to be extra careful. I'll get used to this new diet yet...
Thank you, again!
Posted by Garnet71 on February 9, 2009, at 0:07:33
In reply to Re: New MAIO user with questions about food safety, posted by Isabelle on February 8, 2009, at 23:47:50
Did you google list and cross check to ensure inclusion?
Here's one from Mayo Clinic:
http://www.riversideonline.com/health_reference/Behavior-Mental-Health/HQ01575.cfm
I'd ask your doctor to get an updated list and keep it on your fridge. I wouldn't trust old information as other foods may have been discovered to react negatively.
p.s. I don't know if I could live without my favorite Italian red wine - Chianti!!
Good luck!!
Posted by Isabelle on February 9, 2009, at 11:29:00
In reply to Re: New MAIO user with questions about food safety » Isabelle, posted by Garnet71 on February 9, 2009, at 0:07:33
Hi Garnet,
Thanks for posting that link! I'm very confused - is there a more recent list than that - it seems to have been done in 1994?
Also, that list says to AVOID Chianti...and processed cheese )which I've read is safe on many other lists. I also have read on another list that Chianti was safe if consumed in true moderation, so you can see where the confusion comes from, I'm sure.
My doctor did give me a list but I just have additional questions. (see first two posts)
Thank you!
Posted by bulldog2 on February 9, 2009, at 11:56:30
In reply to Re: New MAIO user with questions about food safety » Isabelle, posted by Garnet71 on February 9, 2009, at 0:07:33
> Did you google list and cross check to ensure inclusion?
>
> Here's one from Mayo Clinic:
>
> http://www.riversideonline.com/health_reference/Behavior-Mental-Health/HQ01575.cfm
>
> I'd ask your doctor to get an updated list and keep it on your fridge. I wouldn't trust old information as other foods may have been discovered to react negatively.
>
> p.s. I don't know if I could live without my favorite Italian red wine - Chianti!!
> ,
> Good luck!!I noticed the list had luncheon meats. How about sliced chicked, roast beef , or turkey. I'm not talking about smoked meats. I thought these might be allowed.
Posted by myco on February 9, 2009, at 11:57:43
In reply to Re: New MAIO user with questions about food safety, posted by Isabelle on February 8, 2009, at 23:47:50
The maoi diet, courtesy of our own Dr. Bob:
Posted by Isabelle on February 9, 2009, at 12:21:43
In reply to Dr Bob has the Maoi diet posted here » Isabelle, posted by myco on February 9, 2009, at 11:57:43
Thank you to everybody who has responded so far!
Unfortunately, the questions I have (the first two posts) still haven't been answered, although the links are helpful!
Please, if you can answer any or all of the specific food related questions, I would be delighted to have that info. :)
Many thanks!
Posted by myco on February 9, 2009, at 13:11:47
In reply to New MAIO user with questions about food safety, posted by Isabelle on February 8, 2009, at 22:22:09
Ok...I know the diet can be a lil tricky..here we go. First step: breath! lol ... The diet is very individual, meaning just because something is on it doesnt mean you cant have it in MODERATION. I know this from experience, ive eaten many a "no no" and lived to tell the tale of the not so evil maoi...kind of like in that monty python movie, was it 'holy grail'?, where they go to meet/fight this terrible monster in a cave and he turns out to be a bunny "wif big nasty teefs" or something silly like this lol. mmhmm
ok...the wind up:
tahini...yeeps go ahead mow it down hun, totally safe. im not a big fan but I eat tons of seseme "butter"...pretty much ground oil seseme seeds like tahini. Many nut butters are great in flavour: sunflower, macadamia, almost, hazlenut (or you yanks call it filburt i think), peanut.
ya no issue.hummus...eat away hun, no issue
mozzeralla...general rule: fresh white cheese and processed ok (ie ricotta, cream cheese, mozz, american parm in that lil shaker thing). See when a cheese (and meat) is aged and or fermented...bacteria and fungi begin to break down compounds in the cheeses to create various flavours and aromas to get various types of cheese...all cheeses start as pretty much white milk. So if its ewwww shhhtinkay, dont eat it. or nibble and see how ya feel :0)....From this we go pizza...yeeps, its fine aslong as you watch whats on it (no old cheese - mozza can be old/aged/smoked etc to). Again no pepperoni, old sausage (has to be raw meet before cooking then eaten...no preserved/dry meat)
"broad beans", "beans" - no fava (lima same thing), snow peas ok (love em), lentils yep go wild (although watch they havent been (as is common with chefs) cooked in stocks - chicken, beef)...adds great flavour to a pretty much tasteless mushy thing. Be aware of this for alot of beans aswell...boiling/cooking in stock adds lots of yum yum flavour (*note for restaurant food ok)...even you veggies out there may not realize that your lentil dish may have been cookin in stocks lol. sorry :-P
"european chocolate": this is a silly way to think of it though. Think dark, white, milk etc...chocolate is chocolate and differs only in the amount of cocoa butter (harmless by the way) and any additives (ive a dark choc with olive oil bar in the fridge). It's a caffeine issue with chocolate mostly but there is tyramine because it does undergo some fermentation (means aged - organisms allowed to work on it to some degree). so moderation...no massive pms or break up binges while eating bags of the stuff ok lol.
"tempeh" (gotta luv the fungi) and "miso" - hella no no's. miso has alot of soy which is bad but again moderation (i eat soy sauce, no issue with nardil and i eat tofu to some extent - lil bits). tempeh is coated in fungal mycelium so...it may be a deathwish lol i dunno though, ive not eaten it in years and years. the fungi break it down and produce flavour compounds...this type of processing of foods you should avoid if you can....fermented (ie aged or grown in association with bacterias and moulds)....that being said though, yogurt i luv (all bacteria with a lil fruit and milk and sugar) and sour cream (yum) but a no no. moderation :0)
keep smilin,
hope this nardil mid morning hypomanic episode helps (mmmm damn i luv coffee - oh ya, drink up...just watch the caffeine megadose)*f*rts and leaves
myco
Posted by bleauberry on February 9, 2009, at 18:38:50
In reply to New MAIO user with questions about food safety, posted by Isabelle on February 8, 2009, at 22:22:09
It looks like Myco gave an awesome response to your question. Very detailed. Very cool.
I just wanted to comment on the restaurant thing. I am gluten free, so it is always a problem at the restaurant. Everything has flour in it. Well, almost everything. I can always find something that doesn't.
What you need to do is ask. Tell the waitperson to be sure that if any cheese is used, only use a tiny amount of mozzarella or american. Avoid anything with a broth or a gravy, or ask for it without the gravy. Ask if the meat is prepared fresh. Etc, etc. Basically, do not be shy about telling the waitperson to inform the cook you are allergic to certain foods. I have even asked the food preparer or cook to come to my table so I could talk with them about my order before they prepare it. They have always been cooperative. Do your part to choose foods on the menu that look safe enough, and then go the next mile by informing them you are very allergic to certain things and to be sure your food is free of those things. They do not want a lawsuit from being preinformed of an allergy and then having you end up in a hospital because they ignored your warning. Businesses get sued that way. You don't need to tell them the whole MAOI thing. Just tell them you are highly allergic. Done deal.
Here's a funny one. I love Subway sandwiches. I go in and ask for a roast beef with all the veggies, but skip the bread. They look at me really puzzled. I repeat, yeah, just skip the bread part. I'll take all the rest. Then they ask, do I want a salad? I say no, I want everything inside the roast beef sandwich with all the veggies, but no bread. They still look puzzled. Finally I say, just put everything you normal pile on the bread onto a plate or in a bowl, or simply wrap it up in wax paper. They do it, still puzzled the whole time. I finally tell them, look, I'm allergic to wheat, that's all. I can't eat the bread, but I want everything else you would normally put in it.
So you can eat in a restaurant just fine, but you have to watch out for yourself and do whatever it takes because no one else is going to know unless you tell them. Then they can help.
Posted by Isabelle on February 9, 2009, at 20:16:37
In reply to Re: New MAIO user with questions about food safety » Isabelle, posted by myco on February 9, 2009, at 13:11:47
Excellent! Thank you Myco and Bleuberry - very informative and very helpful! I'm going to need to keep a list handy for a while but I'll get the hang of it yet. :)
Posted by desolationrower on February 16, 2009, at 3:53:33
In reply to Re: New MAIO user with questions about food safety » Isabelle, posted by myco on February 9, 2009, at 13:11:47
> hummus...eat away hun, no issue
>
> mozzeralla...general rule: fresh white cheese and processed ok (ie ricotta, cream cheese, mozz, american parm in that lil shaker thing). See when a cheese (and meat) is aged and or fermented...bacteria and fungi begin to break down compounds in the cheeses to create various flavours and aromas to get various types of cheese...all cheeses start as pretty much white milk. So if its ewwww shhhtinkay, dont eat it. or nibble and see how ya feel :0)....From this we go pizza...yeeps, its fine aslong as you watch whats on it (no old cheese - mozza can be old/aged/smoked etc to). Again no pepperoni, old sausage (has to be raw meet before cooking then eaten...no preserved/dry meat)theres actually quite a lot of variabiliyt of how much tyramine is in cheeses or other things...just depends on the species of bacteria a factory uses.
>
> "european chocolate": this is a silly way to think of it though. Think dark, white, milk etc...chocolate is chocolate and differs only in the amount of cocoa butter (harmless by the way) and any additives (ive a dark choc with olive oil bar in the fridge). It's a caffeine issue with chocolate mostly but there is tyramine because it does undergo some fermentation (means aged - organisms allowed to work on it to some degree). so moderation...no massive pms or break up binges while eating bags of the stuff ok lol.the issue is chocolate has phenelethylamine, which is an analogue of amphetamine, but normally is metabolized by MAO (amph has an extra methyl group that prevents MAO from metaboilzing). w/o mao it can build up. that said, there isn't enough to have significant effects, i've eaten large amounts of very dark chocolate, and notice nothing. if you aren't used to caffiene or amphetamine, i guess you could mistake it for amphetamine. thus urban legends begin. maybe if you ate like a couple bars of dark chocolate all at once.
> "tempeh" (gotta luv the fungi) and "miso" - hella no no's. miso has alot of soy which is bad but again moderation (i eat soy sauce, no issue with nardil and i eat tofu to some extent - lil bits). tempeh is coated in fungal mycelium so...it may be a deathwish lol i dunno though, ive not eaten it in years and years. the fungi break it down and produce flavour compounds...this type of processing of foods you should avoid if you can....fermented (ie aged or grown in association with bacterias and moulds)....that being said though, yogurt i luv (all bacteria with a lil fruit and milk and sugar) and sour cream (yum) but a no no. moderation :0)
i've eaten months old yoghurt with no problem...i think its ok. spent a while looking for anything on tyramine content, couldn't find it. i'd avoid homemade though, thats where you can get rogue bacteria strains that create the biogenic amines.
> keep smilin,
> hope this nardil mid morning hypomanic episode helps (mmmm damn i luv coffee - oh ya, drink up...just watch the caffeine megadose)
>
> *f*rts and leaves
> myco
>
>
whey is ok too.-d.r
Posted by Isabelle on February 16, 2009, at 7:22:18
In reply to Re: New MAIO user with questions about food safety, posted by desolationrower on February 16, 2009, at 3:53:33
Thank you d.r! The more info I get the better. I've just been upped to a therapeutic (I hope) dose of Parnate. My poor boyfriend has been really anxious about this medicine after he read that someone died eating a Stilton sandwich and I keep trying to convince him that it's all going to be okay, as long as I feel better I'm willing to give up lots of things.
> > hummus...eat away hun, no issue
> >
> > mozzeralla...general rule: fresh white cheese and processed ok (ie ricotta, cream cheese, mozz, american parm in that lil shaker thing). See when a cheese (and meat) is aged and or fermented...bacteria and fungi begin to break down compounds in the cheeses to create various flavours and aromas to get various types of cheese...all cheeses start as pretty much white milk. So if its ewwww shhhtinkay, dont eat it. or nibble and see how ya feel :0)....From this we go pizza...yeeps, its fine aslong as you watch whats on it (no old cheese - mozza can be old/aged/smoked etc to). Again no pepperoni, old sausage (has to be raw meet before cooking then eaten...no preserved/dry meat)
>
> theres actually quite a lot of variabiliyt of how much tyramine is in cheeses or other things...just depends on the species of bacteria a factory uses.
>
>
> >
> > "european chocolate": this is a silly way to think of it though. Think dark, white, milk etc...chocolate is chocolate and differs only in the amount of cocoa butter (harmless by the way) and any additives (ive a dark choc with olive oil bar in the fridge). It's a caffeine issue with chocolate mostly but there is tyramine because it does undergo some fermentation (means aged - organisms allowed to work on it to some degree). so moderation...no massive pms or break up binges while eating bags of the stuff ok lol.
>
> the issue is chocolate has phenelethylamine, which is an analogue of amphetamine, but normally is metabolized by MAO (amph has an extra methyl group that prevents MAO from metaboilzing). w/o mao it can build up. that said, there isn't enough to have significant effects, i've eaten large amounts of very dark chocolate, and notice nothing. if you aren't used to caffiene or amphetamine, i guess you could mistake it for amphetamine. thus urban legends begin. maybe if you ate like a couple bars of dark chocolate all at once.
>
> > "tempeh" (gotta luv the fungi) and "miso" - hella no no's. miso has alot of soy which is bad but again moderation (i eat soy sauce, no issue with nardil and i eat tofu to some extent - lil bits). tempeh is coated in fungal mycelium so...it may be a deathwish lol i dunno though, ive not eaten it in years and years. the fungi break it down and produce flavour compounds...this type of processing of foods you should avoid if you can....fermented (ie aged or grown in association with bacterias and moulds)....that being said though, yogurt i luv (all bacteria with a lil fruit and milk and sugar) and sour cream (yum) but a no no. moderation :0)
>
> i've eaten months old yoghurt with no problem...i think its ok. spent a while looking for anything on tyramine content, couldn't find it. i'd avoid homemade though, thats where you can get rogue bacteria strains that create the biogenic amines.
>
> > keep smilin,
> > hope this nardil mid morning hypomanic episode helps (mmmm damn i luv coffee - oh ya, drink up...just watch the caffeine megadose)
> >
> > *f*rts and leaves
> > myco
> >
> >
> whey is ok too.
>
> -d.r
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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