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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 6:46:49
For the past 8 years i've been on the quest to treat my depression (atypical in my opinion) and social phobia. My main problem has been a lack of mental energy or motivation to get out of bed and do things.
AS i've mentioned before i've been on all the ad's and AP's and stimulants arn't an option.
SSRI's turn me into a zombie, or at least used to, as of mid last year they no longer give me any side effects. TCA's anc MAOI's didn't work.Now lack on energy you think noradrenaline... but anything down that route, especially reboxetine just relaxes me rather than energising along with the worst sexual dysfunction.
So after all this time i decided to give some different things a go.. starting with valroate.. well here we go suddenly i feel like getting out of bed and doing things so imm on 1000mg of it and didn't have any side effects. I've then added 3mg of xanax daily to combat the social anxiety (switching from clonazepam) and still no problems.
This just left one problem... the depression and the fact i'm obsessed with finding a way to kill myself. So back to the anti-depressants now that i seem to have sorted ot the issue with my brain not wanting me to do anything but lay in bed even though the stuff im taking is more known for sedation that energy but thats my wierd brain for ya. Thing is i can't find any AD's to take... they are working to treat the depression but they are now all leaving my body so tired that its my body that doesn't want me getting out of bed.
My mind is so awake... but my limbs feel heavy, my eyelids heavy... after being out of bed it doesn't take long until my muscles feel sore which they are right now in my arms from this typing. These AD's never caused it in the past, right now im on prozac 40mg.. lexapro was my previous attempt... both are causing the same thing. I found a way to fix it by accident... don't go to bed. I was awake for 48hours and my body felt great.. my mind was telling me to get some sleep but my body was so good i used up the oppertunity to get out and do some stuff i needed done. One i got some sleep again though (12 hours) i woke up with a lit up brain and a tired body again.
What on earth is going on here... i've tried skipping doses of each med im on, lowering them, raising them ect and i can't find a culprit. It's like something is making sure only my brain or my body feels good but not both at once. So now instead of being in bed 20 hours a day becaue my brain wants to do nothing its that im in bed 20 hours a day because my body doesn't want to do anything.
I've had blood tests for kindey function, liver function, blood glucose and thyroid which were fine.
I've noticed A bottle of redbull make me feel nearly good enough for a small while.. sugar free redbull.. but caffine tablets don't. Id rather stay off redbull though as caffiene makes me agitated.
on a side note im also on atorvastatin 10mg for chalesterol and ason 2 days ago metoprolol for BP and 133bpm heart rate. (symptoms i had before any of the other mentioned medication)
Posted by manic666 on January 13, 2009, at 8:20:20
In reply to Seriously can't work out what's going on with me, posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 6:46:49
im just about to start zoloft . an i see you have deleteted the bit were scott said im sick of reading about it an its crap anyway. thats why there are more posts on maoi,s well thanks for that you really cheared me up , i was on a downer now im really on one .
Posted by Justherself54 on January 13, 2009, at 10:06:03
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with me, posted by manic666 on January 13, 2009, at 8:20:20
Were you responding to Mav's thread? I don't understand.
Posted by Phillipa on January 13, 2009, at 11:11:01
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with me » manic666, posted by Justherself54 on January 13, 2009, at 10:06:03
Manic was it on this thread if so must have missed it. I thought posts couldn't be deleted. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on January 13, 2009, at 11:13:21
In reply to Seriously can't work out what's going on with me, posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 6:46:49
Mav I do follow your threads and from what you've posted seems like you have been on all meds. I kind of understand as what used to make or give me energy now drains me and even benzos make me tired. I also don't understand. Love Phillipa
Posted by sissy35 on January 13, 2009, at 11:58:17
In reply to Seriously can't work out what's going on with me, posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 6:46:49
Have you had your adrenal glands checked out?
This is also another cause of such on going fatigue and weakness. Since you don't currently have the depression I would have this checked out before you try another med solution.
When the adrenals are chronically overworked and straining to maintain high cortisol levels, they lose the capacity to produce DHEA in sufficient amounts. DHEA (the full name is dehydroepiandrosterone) is a precursor hormone to estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone, and is necessary to moderate the balance of hormones in your body. Insufficient DHEA contributes to fatigue, depression, aching joints, decreased sex drive, and impaired immune function.
So if you have been under a lot of stress I would have this checked out.Sissy35
Posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 12:15:32
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with me » mav27, posted by sissy35 on January 13, 2009, at 11:58:17
> Have you had your adrenal glands checked out?
> This is also another cause of such on going fatigue and weakness. Since you don't currently have the depression I would have this checked out before you try another med solution.
> When the adrenals are chronically overworked and straining to maintain high cortisol levels, they lose the capacity to produce DHEA in sufficient amounts. DHEA (the full name is dehydroepiandrosterone) is a precursor hormone to estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone, and is necessary to moderate the balance of hormones in your body. Insufficient DHEA contributes to fatigue, depression, aching joints, decreased sex drive, and impaired immune function.
> So if you have been under a lot of stress I would have this checked out.
>
> Sissy35Stress would be an understatment for my life these last couple years. I have fatigure aching joints and no sex drive to speak of (and im only 28) What exactly should i ask for in regard to tests.. ie test names.. if i just say adrenals i will probably just get some wierd answer about how they are fine where as when i ask for specific tests the doc seems to just go along with it. I did ask about a cortisol level test last year but he said i would need to stay in hospital over night for it and would have to go to an endocologist i think it was. I thought you could just test it through saliva or urine but he hadn't heard of it being done around this small place.
Posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 12:53:56
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with me » mav27, posted by sissy35 on January 13, 2009, at 11:58:17
Also i don't know if it has any bearing but the one hormone related test i know i had done was for testosterone, it was before i feel as i do now though. It came back as unusualy high in my doctors words but still within acceptable levels.
My thyroid level has been cought dropping down into the red once but hasn't happened again so there is no way of knowing if it was an erronous test result.
I've also had a severe vitamin D deficiancy for what has probably been many years.. it is now back to normal levels though as of last year.
Posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 12:59:57
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with me » mav27, posted by sissy35 on January 13, 2009, at 11:58:17
and just as an interesting test when i posted the first message it was about midnight and i felt crap as i was describing in the message. It's now 6am... iam tired as hell... but my body feels great and wants to get up and do something. My brain is too busy telling me i should sleep though :)
Posted by sissy35 on January 13, 2009, at 13:13:27
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with me » sissy35, posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 12:15:32
Hey I was only 22 when i went through this myself.
"ACTH Stimulation Test", also called the "Cortrosyn Stimulation Test", which can rule out or confirm Adrenal Fatigue.
There are also saliva cortisol tests available that establish your cortisol circadian rhythm.
Usually these tests are repeated about 3 times in one day. One sample proves nothing because of the flucuations up and down during the day,
so make sure your doc does more than one test.Let me know how you make out.
Sissy35
Posted by sissy35 on January 13, 2009, at 13:36:19
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with me, posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 12:59:57
Have you been up all night? That is one reccomended method for helping depression.
Been there done that so I know how you feel.
When I was really depressed I only slept 5days a week, until it started to take a toll on my body.
Sissy
Posted by sissy35 on January 13, 2009, at 14:17:43
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with me » sissy35, posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 12:53:56
Hate to tell you this but high testosterone will stress your Adrenals by lowering your Cortisol levels and deplete the adrenal glands.
You actually have evidence that it could be adreanal related. Not sure way your dr didn't pick up on this.Sissy
Posted by polarbear206 on January 14, 2009, at 15:11:41
In reply to Seriously can't work out what's going on with me, posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 6:46:49
> For the past 8 years i've been on the quest to treat my depression (atypical in my opinion) and social phobia. My main problem has been a lack of mental energy or motivation to get out of bed and do things.
>
> AS i've mentioned before i've been on all the ad's and AP's and stimulants arn't an option.
> SSRI's turn me into a zombie, or at least used to, as of mid last year they no longer give me any side effects. TCA's anc MAOI's didn't work.
>
> Now lack on energy you think noradrenaline... but anything down that route, especially reboxetine just relaxes me rather than energising along with the worst sexual dysfunction.
>
> So after all this time i decided to give some different things a go.. starting with valroate.. well here we go suddenly i feel like getting out of bed and doing things so imm on 1000mg of it and didn't have any side effects. I've then added 3mg of xanax daily to combat the social anxiety (switching from clonazepam) and still no problems.
>
> This just left one problem... the depression and the fact i'm obsessed with finding a way to kill myself. So back to the anti-depressants now that i seem to have sorted ot the issue with my brain not wanting me to do anything but lay in bed even though the stuff im taking is more known for sedation that energy but thats my wierd brain for ya. Thing is i can't find any AD's to take... they are working to treat the depression but they are now all leaving my body so tired that its my body that doesn't want me getting out of bed.
>
> My mind is so awake... but my limbs feel heavy, my eyelids heavy... after being out of bed it doesn't take long until my muscles feel sore which they are right now in my arms from this typing. These AD's never caused it in the past, right now im on prozac 40mg.. lexapro was my previous attempt... both are causing the same thing. I found a way to fix it by accident... don't go to bed. I was awake for 48hours and my body felt great.. my mind was telling me to get some sleep but my body was so good i used up the oppertunity to get out and do some stuff i needed done. One i got some sleep again though (12 hours) i woke up with a lit up brain and a tired body again.
>
> What on earth is going on here... i've tried skipping doses of each med im on, lowering them, raising them ect and i can't find a culprit. It's like something is making sure only my brain or my body feels good but not both at once. So now instead of being in bed 20 hours a day becaue my brain wants to do nothing its that im in bed 20 hours a day because my body doesn't want to do anything.
>
> I've had blood tests for kindey function, liver function, blood glucose and thyroid which were fine.
>
> I've noticed A bottle of redbull make me feel nearly good enough for a small while.. sugar free redbull.. but caffine tablets don't. Id rather stay off redbull though as caffiene makes me agitated.
>
> on a side note im also on atorvastatin 10mg for chalesterol and ason 2 days ago metoprolol for BP and 133bpm heart rate. (symptoms i had before any of the other mentioned medication
I've been down the same exact road as you. You most likely have an underlying bipolar spectrum disorder. I didn't find relief until a mood stabilzer was added. I now take effexor and lamictal. Atypical depression in very common with this illness. Go to psycheducation.org or pubmed and do a search on bipolar and atypical depression
Posted by mav27 on January 15, 2009, at 0:55:00
In reply to Seriously can't work out what's going on with me, posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 6:46:49
Now i think it might be a build up of the combo of valproate and benzo that maybe causing it... not sure but i woke up early this morning and felt ok but lacked a bit of motivation... it's the day i see the pdoc and i usually look faward to it but i didn't feel like going at all but my body was feeling ok at least.
I took the dose of valproate and after a few hours my brain woke up... whilst i had been at the pdoc i managed to tal him into giving me clonidine... i took 100mcg of it and ended up being knocked out to sleep for 2 hours but woke up feeling same as usual. Then i took my first daily dose of xanax... 1mg ... ended up falling asleep again and now ive woken up and my body is sore and heavy.
Posted by Elanor Roosevelt on January 16, 2009, at 22:00:44
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with me, posted by mav27 on January 15, 2009, at 0:55:00
if you take sleeping meds you might want to try to take the AD's at night, sleep through the initial hours of fatigue and wake up during what you are describing as the window of time when you are experiencing the desired effect
try going to sleep according to when you want to get up minus the half life of your sleeping meds
it's worth a try
good luck
Posted by mav27 on January 17, 2009, at 2:00:08
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with, posted by Elanor Roosevelt on January 16, 2009, at 22:00:44
Well im feeling like a bit of an idiot right now.. im 90% sure i've solved the problem of what was going on and after blaming the AD's and switching ect for the last few months it would now seem that the fatigue was actually being caused by the atorvastatin i've been on for 4 months for chelesterol.
Posted by mav27 on January 17, 2009, at 21:37:36
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with » Elanor Roosevelt, posted by mav27 on January 17, 2009, at 2:00:08
Or maybe not. We get 2 months of sunshine a year and all i want to do is go outside and get some work done on my car i've been dying to do all year... i just can't drag myself out to do it though... it's driving me insane... my body or mind doesn't want to do anything at all. My body doesn't feel heavy and tired though since stopping the atorvastatin but something is still wrong.
> Well im feeling like a bit of an idiot right now.. im 90% sure i've solved the problem of what was going on and after blaming the AD's and switching ect for the last few months it would now seem that the fatigue was actually being caused by the atorvastatin i've been on for 4 months for chelesterol.
Posted by Garnet71 on January 17, 2009, at 22:28:43
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with » mav27, posted by mav27 on January 17, 2009, at 21:37:36
Read these posts (from this very same page) and see if you relate to anything mentioned.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090104/msgs/874312.html
Posted by mav27 on January 18, 2009, at 0:24:39
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with » mav27, posted by Garnet71 on January 17, 2009, at 22:28:43
> Read these posts (from this very same page) and see if you relate to anything mentioned.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090104/msgs/874312.html
>
>
Thanks, i hadn't actually read that that but this part in particular certainly describes how i feel. Off to read all the responses now."I am depressed and irritable and anxious and have cognitive and memory problems. Other problems include muscle ache, apathy, confusion, poor memory, poor attention and the reduced ability to learn. My hair is dry and brittle and I look pale. The cognitive decline really concerns me."
Posted by mav27 on January 18, 2009, at 5:56:05
In reply to Seriously can't work out what's going on with me, posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 6:46:49
Gave 300mg of bupropion a go tonight.. it's making me really sleepy.
Posted by Garnet71 on January 18, 2009, at 9:06:35
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with me, posted by mav27 on January 18, 2009, at 5:56:05
> Gave 300mg of bupropion a go tonight.. it's making me really sleepy.
---------------------
That medication, which worked great for me in the past, made me feel horrible too.dizzy, sleepy, major fuzzy feeling in my brain, irratated
Posted by Garnet71 on January 18, 2009, at 9:19:25
In reply to Re: Seriously can't work out what's going on with me » mav27, posted by Garnet71 on January 18, 2009, at 9:06:35
..and I just love how the public thinks since the government approves something, it is safe and/or effective - the same who say since the government does not approve something, that it doesn't work and isn't safe
The main 'drug' prescribed in Germany for depression is St. John's Wort. Yet I had brought this up to a former physicatrist who said if [anything other than SSRIs, pharmaceuticals] worked, then "we" would be using them.
I'm not saying St. John's Wort is better or worse, just pointing out the irrationality and ridiculousness of it all..
Posted by Garnet71 on January 24, 2009, at 9:30:23
In reply to Seriously can't work out what's going on with me, posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 6:46:49
Hi mav27,me again. Just throwing this out there..I started a new thread (for the "what's wrong with me" people..lol).
Several of us have been complaining about cognitive and other symptoms. Doctors often call it treatment resistant depression or Bipolar II (which, btw, seem to be catch all diagnoses for when doctors can't figure out what is wrong with you). Maybe we have a mild version of seratonin syndrome? How does a doctor know we are deficient in seratonin when they prescribe SSRIs? Since they do not possibly know, maybe we have too much seratonin in our brains.
I haven't taken anti depressants for over a week, and my mind feels much more clear.
Just thinking out of the box...take a look into this for yourself.
From WIKI:
The symptoms are often described as a clinical triad of abnormalities:[3][4]
Cognitive effects: mental confusion, hypomania, hallucinations, agitation, headache, coma.
Autonomic effects: shivering, sweating, hyperthermia, hypertension, tachycardia, nausea, diarrhea.
Somatic effects: myoclonus (muscle twitching), hyperreflexia (manifested by clonus), tremor.
Posted by psychobot5000 on January 26, 2009, at 13:29:42
In reply to Seriously can't work out what's going on with me, posted by mav27 on January 13, 2009, at 6:46:49
Hi Mav,
I also have substantial difficulty with "mental energy or motivation." (incidentally, Agomelatine seems to give most of its users more mental energy, so maybe down the line it could be helpful).
Other thoughts:
Red Bull makes you feel well for a couple of hours, but caffeine doesn't, eh? Perhaps, then, it might be the taurine in red bull, rather than caffeine, that's helping you? You could grab a bottle of Taurine supplements and see if that helps you, maybe? FYI there's also acamprosate, a prescription drug which (as I understand it) is a modified form of taurine that penentrates the blood-brain barrier better.
...A drug that has a reputation for being relatively safe and increasing 'goal-oriented' behavior is Pramiracetam. I've never taken it, so I can't confirm that, but its cousin Piracetam did help my motivation slightly, so maybe there's something to the anecdotal reports. I'm not sure any of the other 'racetam' drugs are good for that, though. Anyway, I thought it might be something to consider.
This is the end of the thread.
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