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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2008, at 21:25:59
Is there anywhere I can go to talk about suicidal thoughts where I won't be 'called in'?
Linkadge
Posted by yxibow on December 28, 2008, at 22:10:59
In reply to Don't talk about suicide, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2008, at 21:25:59
> Is there anywhere I can go to talk about suicidal thoughts where I won't be 'called in'?
>
>
> Linkadge
Here -- you're anonymous. Why would you be "called in", especially in a foreign country. I believe its a necessary thing to talk about and I know its hard, but even with a psychiatrist who is not so stolid, I would be open about it.
If you're don't feel able to be open about it here, I can understand, but I do believe that there is an undertone of *trigger* on here, and talking about it does not mean that someone else will do something awful to themselves.
Here in the US, you can only be sent to a hospital if your state of suicidality is such that you have an absolute plan to do something immediately or if you actually go through the act and survive.
-- Jay
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 28, 2008, at 23:18:01
In reply to Don't talk about suicide, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2008, at 21:25:59
I sent you a babblemail, link. I know a bit aboul local options.
Best,
Lar
Posted by sam K on December 28, 2008, at 23:19:38
In reply to Don't talk about suicide, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2008, at 21:25:59
the old sucidal thoughts, I get them all the time. For weeks at a time Ive felt suicidal. Id talk to ya. Theres always hope and dont forget that. everything passes like storms then the sun comes out sooner or later
Posted by Phillipa on December 29, 2008, at 0:45:09
In reply to Re: Don't talk about suicide, posted by sam K on December 28, 2008, at 23:19:38
Link you know where to find me. Phillipa. Are you saying is this site safe or am I totally off base. Love Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on December 29, 2008, at 12:11:10
In reply to Don't talk about suicide, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2008, at 21:25:59
I hope the numbers Larry gave you are helpful. You can safely talk about suicide on most hotlines unless you tell them that you are going to do something right away.
Take care of yourself.
Posted by Deputy Racer on December 30, 2008, at 12:01:12
In reply to Don't talk about suicide, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2008, at 21:25:59
> Is there anywhere I can go to talk about suicidal thoughts where I won't be 'called in'?
>
>Local hotlines are one option, and it sounds as though Lar had offered you some resources for your area. It is also OK to write about suicidal thoughts here on Babble, with certain limitations: the most important is to distinguish between thoughts of suicide and actual plans. Expressing your thoughts and feelings falls within the range of "support," one of the goals of this site.
We do ask that you include a **trigger** warning on the subject line of any posts in which you discuss such thoughts.
I hope that is helpful; if it is not clear enough, please ask for clarification and I'll try to make it clearer. I hope that you find the support you need.
Posted by bleauberry on December 30, 2008, at 19:05:14
In reply to Don't talk about suicide, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2008, at 21:25:59
Where I live in USA talking about suicidal thoughts will not get your turned it. You have to be able to tell them yes you are definitely going to do it and how.
I wonder if maybe a tad bit of prozac would help? Not as much as you took before. And then something with it for the blahness thing, along with the lower dose to keep that to a minimum? I say this only because you did seem a greater distance from despair when you were on prozac. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was my impression.
Pbabble is a great place to talk about suicidal feelings. You are in like company. Most of us are in the same place as you, or have been, and could likely be again at some point.
Posted by linkadge on December 30, 2008, at 20:43:48
In reply to Re: Don't talk about suicide, posted by bleauberry on December 30, 2008, at 19:05:14
Thats the problem. I only took about 5mg of prozac and I practically didn't sleep for 2 nights. I was also agitated out of my mind. The medication just feels so toxic.
I think there are certain subtypes of depression that just fair very poorly with current treatments.
I need something that will help me get normal sleep. Something that doesn't worsen my anxiety. Something thats not going to make me apathetic.
I'm not so much 'sad' its just that I feel an incredable emptiness and feeling like there is no point to being alive. I'm very anxious and unsettled. It's like I am always feeling like something is 'wrong'. I have problems sleeping and staying asleep. I'm constantly having nightmares.Prozac just makes things so much worse. It makes me more anxious and makes my sleep worse. I also eat less on it.
The big problem is that because I've been on 'everything', I just say that the prozac is helping. I realize this isn't going to help me. If I say the medications aren't working they he is going to start prescribing harder combos that I really don't want to get into again. At least this way I can keep my foot in the door with psychiatry.
Anyhow, I just keep reaching dead ends. We need new treatments.Linkadge
Posted by ricker on December 30, 2008, at 22:15:20
In reply to Re: Don't talk about suicide, posted by linkadge on December 30, 2008, at 20:43:48
Have you tried remeron/nortriptyline combo?
Posted by Phillipa on December 31, 2008, at 1:01:23
In reply to Re: Don't talk about suicide, posted by ricker on December 30, 2008, at 22:15:20
Link what about luvox or the lithium low low dose for you? Love Phillipa I do know what you mean he's one here's another and another. Add together. Used to watch this with patients when working in psych came in on one med. Left on many. And then they would be back.
Posted by bleauberry on December 31, 2008, at 15:53:38
In reply to Re: Don't talk about suicide, posted by linkadge on December 30, 2008, at 20:43:48
Yeah I hear ya Link. I know all too well how you feel. I was so darn sensitive to prozac I had to start at 1mg for a few days, then 2mg for a few days, it took me 2 weeks to get up to 5mg. Agitation and insomnia were. Zyprexa helped that a ton. But still, I do understand exactly.
When you say you've tried everything, well, what haven't you tried? Do you, or did you, have amalgam fillings in your teeth? Do you have unexplained pain and fatigue? I mean, maybe we're only looking here at a symptom of something else? Your symptoms seem to fit very detailed exact descriptions of what people feel with other diseases, somewhat different than what we normally call depression. And that might explain why depression meds are so treacherous for you? Just a thought.
> Thats the problem. I only took about 5mg of prozac and I practically didn't sleep for 2 nights. I was also agitated out of my mind. The medication just feels so toxic.
>
> I think there are certain subtypes of depression that just fair very poorly with current treatments.
>
> I need something that will help me get normal sleep. Something that doesn't worsen my anxiety. Something thats not going to make me apathetic.
>
>
> I'm not so much 'sad' its just that I feel an incredable emptiness and feeling like there is no point to being alive. I'm very anxious and unsettled. It's like I am always feeling like something is 'wrong'. I have problems sleeping and staying asleep. I'm constantly having nightmares.
>
> Prozac just makes things so much worse. It makes me more anxious and makes my sleep worse. I also eat less on it.
>
> The big problem is that because I've been on 'everything', I just say that the prozac is helping. I realize this isn't going to help me. If I say the medications aren't working they he is going to start prescribing harder combos that I really don't want to get into again. At least this way I can keep my foot in the door with psychiatry.
>
> Anyhow, I just keep reaching dead ends. We need new treatments.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Racer on December 31, 2008, at 18:36:29
In reply to Re: Don't talk about suicide, posted by linkadge on December 30, 2008, at 20:43:48
> Thats the problem. I only took about 5mg of prozac and I practically didn't sleep for 2 nights. I was also agitated out of my mind. The medication just feels so toxic.
How long were you on it? You've just described my first few days on Prozac, every time I've taken it, and all that's gone away after a couple of weeks. (Which doesn't mean you should take it, it just means that those things did go away for me after a while.)
>
> I think there are certain subtypes of depression that just fair very poorly with current treatments.I agree -- and I think that's part of the reason it's been so hard for me to find anything to help. The good news is that I did, finally -- except it wasn't an anti-depressant. It could be that there's something out there that makes a similar difference for you, which is also not a traditional antidepressant.
And while I wish I could tell you that my depression is *always* 100% at bay -- well, if I tried to tell you that, you're certainly smart enough to know I was lying through my teeth. What I can say, though, is that I am far better than I had been for the past couple of years, that I can apply behavioral strategies when it gets bad, and I think it's a fundamentally different animal than the "pure" depression I had before. I think what I have now is something more habitual than biological -- certain types of things set off negative ruminations which follow in familiar ruts and lead to the "no-hope/no-points." Those, I can work on. The "real" depression, though? Whole different animal. With the pure depression, I can't function well enough for therapy to be of any use whatsoever. My therapist has nearly sent me home for that reason once or twice -- and really only kept me there either to assess suicidality or for fear of triggering it!
>
> I need something that will help me get normal sleep. Something that doesn't worsen my anxiety. Something thats not going to make me apathetic.Have you tried Rozerem? If not, it's worth a try. It probably won't knock you out the way most hypnotics do -- it's far more subtle, but it has none of the side effects I've had from the others. And, believe it or not, its effects get better over time -- AND it seems to boost my antidepressant effects. When I've had to skip a few days for some reason, there's still no problem -- it seems to have helped me establish a better sleep cycle. I do try to take it at the same time every day, which also helps.
I'll give it my very highest praise, though: I feel as though I've had a normal night's sleep, and wake up feeling refreshed.
>
>
> I'm not so much 'sad' its just that I feel an incredable emptiness and feeling like there is no point to being alive. I'm very anxious and unsettled. It's like I am always feeling like something is 'wrong'. I have problems sleeping and staying asleep. I'm constantly having nightmares.All of that sounds as though therapy would be helpful. And have you ever considered neurofeedback or biofeedback? The "anxious and unsettled" sound like the sorts of things that can be helped by that sort of thing. Also, Pilates helped me a lot with anxiety, and might be worth considering, too. (Although I'd say go to a class, rather than using a tape.)
I have a bias in favor of therapy, which I believe can be helpful for nearly anyone under some circumstances -- and I do mean anyone, including those who will never have any sort of psychiatric disorder. It's becoming ever clearer to me how many ruts my thoughts have gotten into, how much I've accepted as true without evidence, how distorted my view of myself is -- and Link? No matter what you may think of me, I am *very* smart, and I am *very* curious, so that "accepting as true" is not necessarily a function of my underlying idiocy ;-)
I truly do wish the best for you, Link. I hope very much that you do find *something* -- animal, vegetable, or mineral -- to help you.
Peace.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 31, 2008, at 19:10:19
In reply to Re: Don't talk about suicide » linkadge, posted by Racer on December 31, 2008, at 18:36:29
A very supportive post, Racer. Unfortunately, Rozerem is not yet available in Canada. When it is, I want some, too.
Lar
Posted by linkadge on January 1, 2009, at 9:39:04
In reply to Re: Don't talk about suicide » linkadge, posted by Racer on December 31, 2008, at 18:36:29
If I try putting myself through that again, I won't come out alive. Every inch of my being says stay away from it.
Linkadge
Posted by manic666 on January 1, 2009, at 12:21:11
In reply to Re: Don't talk about suicide, posted by Phillipa on December 31, 2008, at 1:01:23
link my buddy, when on prozac it took lorazepam as backup till it kicked in. it took /uckin ages.im not saying hammer in the loz because you no my ending, but that said its the best anxierty drug bar none. an if you can be sensible, a thing im incapable of, it may get you out of this hole your in.but? an its a big but be careful.
Posted by linkadge on January 2, 2009, at 8:49:36
In reply to Re: Don't talk about suicide, posted by manic666 on January 1, 2009, at 12:21:11
Its not just anxiety. The medication makes me feel so incredably worse. Whatever is, or isn't wrong with me..fluoxetine takes me 100m/s in the wrong direction.
Posted by Racer on January 2, 2009, at 10:38:47
In reply to Re: Don't talk about suicide, posted by linkadge on January 1, 2009, at 9:39:04
> If I try putting myself through that again, I won't come out alive. Every inch of my being says stay away from it.
>
> LinkadgeI'm not quite sure what you mean, so I'll guess you mean therapy. It's hard to find a good fit with a therapist sometimes, and a bad fit can be brutal. (You probably don't remember, but I got far worse a few years ago with the help of a bad fit.)
Here's what I've been musing about lately: After years of feeling maybe slightly better from meds, or maybe worse on some, but nothing that really made much difference, I finally tried something that made a difference. Again, not an antidepressant. This medication took a grand total of two days to knock me into euthymia! I'm not entirely sure of the mechanism, because I felt so good I didn't care *how* it worked, but my doctor said something about H1 receptors, with maybe some GABAergic activity downstream or maybe not. Honestly, I didn't care how it did it -- and I felt {gasp} interest in other things, so didn't bother looking it up. Since two days isn't enough time for the sorts of changes hypothesized as causing the antidepressant effects of most ADs, I think my depression is probably not based in the catecholamines, and you may have something similar -- something that may respond great to something out there, just not to any of the standard ADs. Side effects of what I'm taking? There may be one or two -- but who's got time to stop and worry about what they might be? (I'm exaggerating a tiny bit -- I have had some headaches, but not even really bothersome. Sleep is better, though, so that's a nice trade off.)
I've always thought that "depression" was a constellation of disorders, related primarily by a common set of symptoms, rather than any common etiology. My experience seems to support that idea. I can't think what to suggest to you as far as finding a good treatment, but I do think that there are some out there. (And if I could wrap up my quirky, think-outside-the-box psychopharmacologist and send him to you for a consult, I certainly would.)
Working with horses, I always told my clients when new behavior problems cropped up, "Before you assume he's being naughty and get out the training aids, get the vet out here to go over him from nose to tail and rule out any physical problem." Same with any animal, of course. Well, we're animals, too -- if you can, and I know Canada has a different sort of system than we do in the States, see if your doctor can do a COMPLETE physical, with all the labs he can think of, to rule out any weird sort of metabolic component. I think you posted photos of yourself a few years ago, and I remember thinking you were very thin -- that might play into it, too: some minor nutrient deficiency, maybe. It's worth checking out if you can.
Link, you are suffering, and I wish I could help. I'll offer you my best wishes and hopes.
Peace.
This is the end of the thread.
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