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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bulldog2 on December 4, 2008, at 12:43:39
Is there an ad that might help with benzo withdrawel? I know nardil seems to help prevent gaba breakdown so I don't know if that one would be helpful.
Posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2008, at 0:04:59
In reply to An Ad To Help Get Off Of Benzos, posted by bulldog2 on December 4, 2008, at 12:43:39
New RX from pdoc today was up luvox as potentiates effects of the benzos so hopefully less benzos. Going down anyway. Phillipa just home.
Posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2008, at 0:06:04
In reply to Re: An Ad To Help Get Off Of Benzos » bulldog2, posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2008, at 0:04:59
Also nefedazone as antihistamine very sedating. Phillipa
Posted by desolationrower on December 5, 2008, at 2:28:55
In reply to An Ad To Help Get Off Of Benzos, posted by bulldog2 on December 4, 2008, at 12:43:39
Well in general serotonergic ADs are helpful for the anxiety parts, and trazodone/seroquel/cyproheptadine for the insomnia (not sure if this is a problem).
heres a few abstracts
I can't find even the abstract for this study, but:
Tianeptine counteracts the anxiogenic effects of benzodiazepine withdrawal, but not those of exposure to cat odour
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3862074also,
QUOTE
Evidence that the median raphé nucleus--dorsal hippocampal pathway mediates diazepam withdrawal-induced anxiety.
Andrews N, File SE, Fernandes C, Gonzalez LE, Barnes NM.On the basis of our previous series of experiments we had postulated that the increased anxiety that occurred during diazepam withdrawal was mediated by increased 5-HT release in the hippocampus. The present series of experiments provide evidence for a major role of the median raphé nucleus (MRN) dorsal hippocampal pathway. Rats were treated once daily for 21 days with diazepam (2 mg/kg IP) and then tested after 24 h withdrawal in the social interaction test of anxiety. Relative to chronically vehicle treated animals, those withdrawn from diazepam were significantly more anxious and had significantly greater K(+)-evoked release of [3H]-5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) from slices of dorsal and of ventral regions of the hippocampus. Estimation of extracellular concentrations of 5-HT within the dorsal hippocampus, using in-vivo microdialysis, showed doubling in the levels of 5-HT in the rats withdrawn from chronic diazepam treatment. This just failed to reach significance, but 33% of the rats showed dramatic increases (650%). It was not possible to test these animals in the social interaction test, but it is proposed that only the diazepam-withdrawn rats with raised extracellular levels of 5-HT would have displayed increased anxiety. 5-HT1A receptor agonists injected into the MRN decrease the MRN firing rate, and hence the release of 5-HT in the dorsal hippocampus. As a further test of our hypothesis, we examined the effects of MRN injection of the 5-HT1A receptor agonist, 8-OH DPAT, on animals withdrawn from diazepam and tested in the low light familiar condition of the social interaction test. 8-OH DPAT (50-200 ng) dose-dependently reversed the anxiogenic effect of diazepam withdrawal, while having no effects in chronic vehicle-treated animals. These results provide clear evidence that the MRN-dorsal hippocampal 5-HT pathway is at least one of the pathways playing an important role in mediating diazepam withdrawal-induced anxiety.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?d...;indexed=google
hence, tianeptine. I also think ssri+buspirone could be helpful.QUOTE
Increased 5-HT release mediates the anxiogenic response during benzodiazepine withdrawal: a review of supporting neurochemical and behavioural evidence.
Andrews N, File SE.This paper reviews the biochemical and behavioural evidence that the increased anxiety that occurs during benzodiazepine withdrawal is caused by increased 5-HT activity. In hippocampal slices taken from rats withdrawn for 24 h from chronic diazepam treatment (2 mg/kg/day for 21 days) there was a significant increase in K(+)-evoked release of [3H]5-HT and in 45Ca2+ uptake and both of these changes were reversed by the GABAB agonist, baclofen. Baclofen also reversed the anxiogenic response that is detected on withdrawal from chronic diazepam treatment. Other drugs that reduce 5-HT function (tianeptine which increases 5-HT uptake; buspirone, a 5-HT1A receptor agonist/partial agonist; zacopride, a 5-HT3 receptor antagonist) also reversed this anxiogenic response. Finally, we present data from a group of rats that did not develop tolerance to the anxiolytic effects of diazepam (2 mg/kg), even after 5 weeks treatment. This group failed to show an anxiogenic response on withdrawal from diazepam, nor was there an increase in hippocampal 5-HT release. We discuss the extent to which increased hippocampal 5-HT release can be causally linked to the increased anxiety during benzodiazepine withdrawal.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?d...;indexed=google
Posted by yxibow on December 5, 2008, at 3:33:34
In reply to Re: An Ad To Help Get Off Of Benzos » bulldog2, posted by Phillipa on December 5, 2008, at 0:04:59
> New RX from pdoc today was up luvox as potentiates effects of the benzos so hopefully less benzos. Going down anyway. Phillipa just home.
You're on Luvox which passes through 3A4 and Valium as I recall which was my former antidepressant and combination, so, yes, Luvox is a theoretical inhibitor (keeps other relevant drugs longer in the system) at CYP 3A4. Not all benzodiazepines pass through this cytochrome -- Xanax would be stronger than Valium potentiation.
http://www.medicine.iupui.edu/flockhart/
-- tidings
Jay
Posted by Valero on December 5, 2008, at 16:20:38
In reply to Re: An Ad To Help Get Off Of Benzos, posted by desolationrower on December 5, 2008, at 2:28:55
On a more empirical note, yes Tianeptine does "help"
I've used it in the past to soften the crash from
Benzo's and the related drugs like Zolpidem.
Also for taking the edge off a stimulant related crash. They use it in practice to help alcoholics with their withdrawals( that's also gabba related )
Never tried, but I think Gabapentin and pregabalin may also help ( short term, as longer term you'd probably need Benzo's to withdraw from them!)
Tianeptine's probably more useful for the above than as an actual AD.But I guess opinions diverge on this.
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