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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 11:52:52
I know, not more posting about Parnate. But I really need help with this from experienced users and experts!
I have tried all typical type AD's, can't tolerate sides(anxiety,paranoia,extreme fatigue).
Diagnosis: TR/ATYP MDD. Sounds right. Many triggerswhile back, concurrently, just can't seem to drag my way back up. It's been 2-3 years of no work, no socializing (family ok) lethargic like never before. Want to hide in bed all day.
This was never me until few years ago. Always thought I'd pull out of it by sheer will...can't. Don't even blame myself anymore.
Because of what Iv'e seen on this sight, 1st was RobertDavid, I tried Emsam patch. Felt great, very mild euphoric results. When went to titrate up to 9mg patch, figured I may as well switch to Parnate (easier, cheaper, stronger). There it was again, 5-6 days, same great, new me feeling. Among the living once again.
Had some low BP stuff goin on, no big deal, woke up on day 12 6am in a pretty bad hypertensive crisis. Most know what follows. I thought I must have made mistake day before in food. Scoured kitchen and found protien bars. Protien came from soy, so PDoc & I decided that was it.
Next day, and every day after hypertention every day, after last dose. Tried splitting doses, went from 30mg down to 20mg, same result. Finally PDoc put me on Nifedipine 10mg daily until next appt (Monday). Don't think he wants me to stay on Nifedipine, and I can see why. Venticular Tachycardia, fast pulse at rest, headaches, and lethargy, even depression in some. All possible s/effects of Nifedipine. I believe it is overshadowing any a/d effect from Parnate as I am no longer feeling it. But how could I?
What to add for daily antidote?
what to augment if response dousn't return?
How many get the quick response, just have it poop-out in week or two?
Most get prolonged relief if early responder?Sorry for my long post but I'm desperate to not lose this chance at recovery. (Don't want to hurt myself in the process). Thanks for ANY ideas and responses!
Your new pupil in "the cause"!!--Jade
Posted by Phillipa on November 5, 2008, at 12:11:46
In reply to MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate, posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 11:52:52
Jade couldn't resist Robert David And I became great friends during Emsam trial we talked even on the phone. He's off it on last talked via e-mail was only on klonopin. Now back to scheduled broadcasting!!!!! BTW he's a wonderful person. Love Phillipa hope those parnate users are on today.
Posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 12:42:14
In reply to Re: MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate » JadeKelly, posted by Phillipa on November 5, 2008, at 12:11:46
Phillipa,
Couldn't resist? I love your posts. Yeah, I think I read all of RoberDavid's posts as was so interested in that patch. Was good of him to let us follow his journey. It was because of him I tried it, how great that was. BTW- check your inbox.
Hope those Paranate users make it to this post,too!! Would make my PDoc appt so much easier.
Yours in Hope! Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 14:32:11
In reply to MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate, posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 11:52:52
Posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 14:34:44
In reply to Re: MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate (nm) » JadeKelly, posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 14:32:11
Posted by bulldog2 on November 5, 2008, at 16:21:35
In reply to MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate, posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 11:52:52
> I know, not more posting about Parnate. But I really need help with this from experienced users and experts!
>
> I have tried all typical type AD's, can't tolerate sides(anxiety,paranoia,extreme fatigue).
>
> Diagnosis: TR/ATYP MDD. Sounds right. Many triggerswhile back, concurrently, just can't seem to drag my way back up. It's been 2-3 years of no work, no socializing (family ok) lethargic like never before. Want to hide in bed all day.
>
> This was never me until few years ago. Always thought I'd pull out of it by sheer will...can't. Don't even blame myself anymore.
>
> Because of what Iv'e seen on this sight, 1st was RobertDavid, I tried Emsam patch. Felt great, very mild euphoric results. When went to titrate up to 9mg patch, figured I may as well switch to Parnate (easier, cheaper, stronger). There it was again, 5-6 days, same great, new me feeling. Among the living once again.
>
> Had some low BP stuff goin on, no big deal, woke up on day 12 6am in a pretty bad hypertensive crisis. Most know what follows. I thought I must have made mistake day before in food. Scoured kitchen and found protien bars. Protien came from soy, so PDoc & I decided that was it.
>
> Next day, and every day after hypertention every day, after last dose. Tried splitting doses, went from 30mg down to 20mg, same result. Finally PDoc put me on Nifedipine 10mg daily until next appt (Monday). Don't think he wants me to stay on Nifedipine, and I can see why. Venticular Tachycardia, fast pulse at rest, headaches, and lethargy, even depression in some. All possible s/effects of Nifedipine. I believe it is overshadowing any a/d effect from Parnate as I am no longer feeling it. But how could I?
>
> What to add for daily antidote?
> what to augment if response dousn't return?
> How many get the quick response, just have it poop-out in week or two?
> Most get prolonged relief if early responder?
>
> Sorry for my long post but I'm desperate to not lose this chance at recovery. (Don't want to hurt myself in the process). Thanks for ANY ideas and responses!
>
> Your new pupil in "the cause"!!--JadeHow about back to the patch. Much safer in terms of hypertensive crisis. Or nardil? Have you tried that one? That one is not as bad as parnate in terms of hypertensive crisis.
Posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 16:38:48
In reply to Re: MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate, posted by bulldog2 on November 5, 2008, at 16:21:35
Hi Bulldog,
yeah, I've actually been thinking about those two options. The patch worked great for me in the beginning, but when it appeared that I'd have to go up to the 9 or 12 patch, I figured just go with stronger, cheap Parnate. I got samples for all my patches, I'll have to see if my insurance will even cover it.
Nardil, well, mainly I'm just vain. Thats why I chose parnate, cause I heard of people gaining TONS of weight. However, if thats the best choice of the 3, I'll def try it. I've heard that also, that not so many hypertensive crises with Nardil.
Posted by Nadezda on November 5, 2008, at 16:47:15
In reply to MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate, posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 11:52:52
This is one old thread in which someone discusses spontanous hypertensive episodes. I dont' know what eventually happened, but I remember another case when I first came here, in which someone had a similar problem and eventually had to stop the parnate. I don't know if there are any established treatments.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020709/msgs/112607.html
Nadezda
Posted by jnew12 on November 5, 2008, at 18:24:22
In reply to Re: MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate » JadeKelly, posted by Nadezda on November 5, 2008, at 16:47:15
If you want something LESS INTENSIVE to counteract your hypertensive crisis and not cause depression I would try low doses of Clonidine and see how that works.
It's what they put little boys on for ADHD, and cause the blood pressure to lower and is pretty safe, I used to use larger doses for a sleep aid, but it is not that sedating at small doses.
Posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 19:42:32
In reply to Re: MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate » JadeKelly, posted by Nadezda on November 5, 2008, at 16:47:15
Great site, thanks!!
Jade
Posted by azalea on November 5, 2008, at 21:21:58
In reply to MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate, posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 11:52:52
Since you had good results with Emsam, you could consider oral selegiline. It's not nearly as expensive as patch form!
> I know, not more posting about Parnate. But I really need help with this from experienced users and experts!
>
> I have tried all typical type AD's, can't tolerate sides(anxiety,paranoia,extreme fatigue).
>
> Diagnosis: TR/ATYP MDD. Sounds right. Many triggerswhile back, concurrently, just can't seem to drag my way back up. It's been 2-3 years of no work, no socializing (family ok) lethargic like never before. Want to hide in bed all day.
>
> This was never me until few years ago. Always thought I'd pull out of it by sheer will...can't. Don't even blame myself anymore.
>
> Because of what Iv'e seen on this sight, 1st was RobertDavid, I tried Emsam patch. Felt great, very mild euphoric results. When went to titrate up to 9mg patch, figured I may as well switch to Parnate (easier, cheaper, stronger). There it was again, 5-6 days, same great, new me feeling. Among the living once again.
>
> Had some low BP stuff goin on, no big deal, woke up on day 12 6am in a pretty bad hypertensive crisis. Most know what follows. I thought I must have made mistake day before in food. Scoured kitchen and found protien bars. Protien came from soy, so PDoc & I decided that was it.
>
> Next day, and every day after hypertention every day, after last dose. Tried splitting doses, went from 30mg down to 20mg, same result. Finally PDoc put me on Nifedipine 10mg daily until next appt (Monday). Don't think he wants me to stay on Nifedipine, and I can see why. Venticular Tachycardia, fast pulse at rest, headaches, and lethargy, even depression in some. All possible s/effects of Nifedipine. I believe it is overshadowing any a/d effect from Parnate as I am no longer feeling it. But how could I?
>
> What to add for daily antidote?
> what to augment if response dousn't return?
> How many get the quick response, just have it poop-out in week or two?
> Most get prolonged relief if early responder?
>
> Sorry for my long post but I'm desperate to not lose this chance at recovery. (Don't want to hurt myself in the process). Thanks for ANY ideas and responses!
>
> Your new pupil in "the cause"!!--Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 21:49:32
In reply to Re: MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Par » JadeKelly, posted by azalea on November 5, 2008, at 21:21:58
Have you tried selegiline azalea? If so, did you respond? I had to start titrating up on Emsam, was losing all effect at 9mg, would have gone to 12mg but seemed cost prohibitive when I would need to follow food restricts anyway. Can you get up to a decent dose of selegiline? Is it as strong as other MAOI's? Thanks for response!
Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on November 6, 2008, at 10:57:11
In reply to Re: MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Par, posted by jnew12 on November 5, 2008, at 18:24:22
> If you want something LESS INTENSIVE to counteract your hypertensive crisis and not cause depression I would try low doses of Clonidine and see how that works.
>
> It's what they put little boys on for ADHD, and cause the blood pressure to lower and is pretty safe, I used to use larger doses for a sleep aid, but it is not that sedating at small doses.Thanks Jnew, I'll check that out with PDoc when I go. What I'm taking now is very sedating, leaves me with a mild headache all day, and def no, don't need anything adding to depression!
When you say less intensive, do you mean it may not work on BP as well? or it's lighter on the side effects. Also, have you seen people use it for MAOI's or blood pressure or both? I can look it up, just wondered how you've seen it used.
Thanks for the response :)
Jade
Posted by bulldog2 on November 6, 2008, at 11:37:54
In reply to Re: MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Par » jnew12, posted by JadeKelly on November 6, 2008, at 10:57:11
> > If you want something LESS INTENSIVE to counteract your hypertensive crisis and not cause depression I would try low doses of Clonidine and see how that works.
> >
> > It's what they put little boys on for ADHD, and cause the blood pressure to lower and is pretty safe, I used to use larger doses for a sleep aid, but it is not that sedating at small doses.
>
> Thanks Jnew, I'll check that out with PDoc when I go. What I'm taking now is very sedating, leaves me with a mild headache all day, and def no, don't need anything adding to depression!
>
> When you say less intensive, do you mean it may not work on BP as well? or it's lighter on the side effects. Also, have you seen people use it for MAOI's or blood pressure or both? I can look it up, just wondered how you've seen it used.
>
> Thanks for the response :)
>
> Jade
>There are some studies that taking amitriptyline with parnate lowers the risk of hypertensive crisis. Was discusses recently on this forum. Try a google amitriptyline+parnate
Posted by JadeKelly on November 6, 2008, at 11:55:57
In reply to Re: MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Par, posted by bulldog2 on November 6, 2008, at 11:37:54
Thanks Bulldog, I'll google it now!
Jade
Posted by azalea on November 6, 2008, at 15:29:29
In reply to Re: MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Par » azalea, posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 21:49:32
From Current Psychiatry V O L . 1 , N O . 6 / J U N E 2 0 0 2
MAO inhibitors: An option worth trying"Selegiline is used in low dosages for parkinsonism. At higher
dosages (more than 20 mg/d), selegiline is a good antidepressant but is no longer MAO-B selectiveinhibiting both the MAO-B and MAO-A enzymes and thus requiring the usual dietary restrictions."Recommended dose of oral selegiline is 15-60/day to achieve antidepressant effect.
> Have you tried selegiline azalea? If so, did you respond? I had to start titrating up on Emsam, was losing all effect at 9mg, would have gone to 12mg but seemed cost prohibitive when I would need to follow food restricts anyway. Can you get up to a decent dose of selegiline? Is it as strong as other MAOI's? Thanks for response!
>
> Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on November 6, 2008, at 17:07:36
In reply to MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate, posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 11:52:52
Thanks Azalea, that def will be an option I'll bring up with PDoc on Monday. Gosh I'm getting frustated with this. I'm really not usually a whiner....but when you've been patient (I have) and finally find meds that you feel "normal" on. UGHH. I realized that for the past week and half my Parnate response has dissipated. What I'm not sure of is whether its due to poop-out, or taking this Nifedipine with it, which has a lenthy list of s/e of its own. Maybe another post. Sure would like to hear from a Parnate veteran. :^) Jade
Posted by desolationrower on November 11, 2008, at 19:35:04
In reply to Re: MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate, posted by JadeKelly on November 6, 2008, at 17:07:36
I had a hypertensive criss when i started parnate. for a few weeks i still had occasional mild headaches, but never really turned into an all-out crisis. lately i haven't had any problems. I wonder if as the various receptor changes occur like beta downregulation it becomes less a problem
my first response was basically to feel like i had taken i giant bong rip, but it smoothed out inot just feeling more optimistic after another week or two.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on November 11, 2008, at 22:11:22
In reply to Re: MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate, posted by desolationrower on November 11, 2008, at 19:35:04
Hi D/R,
I think we're cross posting, I just asked you that very question on another thread! Does that mean our first week of "bliss" was only temporary? Not to be greedy or anything...
~Jade
Posted by desolationrower on November 11, 2008, at 23:31:59
In reply to Re: MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate » desolationrower, posted by JadeKelly on November 11, 2008, at 22:11:22
hm, well my mood is still quite good (although still have social avoidance/anxiety and motivation problems to deal with). I do like getting blazed, but i'd rather not feel like that 24/7, and i think i feel -as good- now as then, just 'normal' instead of 'goofy.' it was an interesting week though. I'm also on memantine, i started it in hope it would prevent poopout of stimulant type effects. I though the first week might be extra fun, in a speedy kind of way; but it wasn't that way at all. So i'm not sure if the memantine is still helping but i'm still taking it.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on November 12, 2008, at 10:20:57
In reply to Re: MAOI experts!! Spontaneous hypertension w/ Parnate, posted by desolationrower on November 11, 2008, at 23:31:59
D/R, you are hilarious. Shall I assume that blazed results from a giant bong rip? Maybe I should try that for augmentation? No.I have to think ENERGY! So lets keep each other up to date on possible augmentations as I hear there are good ones that work well. I just forget which. PDoc said he will add one next appt. if I want (4 wks).
Talk soon,
~Jade
This is the end of the thread.
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