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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by bulldog2 on November 1, 2008, at 13:54:26
In reply to Nardil Almost 4 Weeks No Effects - Sedation, posted by jnew12 on November 1, 2008, at 13:10:32
> I have been on Nardil for 4 almost four weeks now and I feel as depressed or maybe even more. On top of that my benzo stopped working so I barely take them anymore. I am going to stay on the Nardil because it's my only hope for getting better. But, I am getting extreme sedation. So bad that it's causing me to fall asleep during class. My teacher even asked me if I was on drugs.lol I know my psych won't give me stimulants so that is out of the question. He probably won't even give me provigil since he does not know much about MAOI's and on prescrbing info on Provigil it says it's contradicted. What is a man to do?
What's your dose?
Posted by jnew12 on November 1, 2008, at 14:17:36
In reply to Re: Nardil Almost 4 Weeks No Effects - Sedation, posted by bulldog2 on November 1, 2008, at 13:54:26
60mg, been at the dose almost the whole time except for the first week i was at 30mg.
Posted by bulldog2 on November 1, 2008, at 17:14:46
In reply to Re: Nardil Almost 4 Weeks No Effects - Sedation, posted by jnew12 on November 1, 2008, at 14:17:36
> 60mg, been at the dose almost the whole time except for the first week i was at 30mg.
I've heard the new nardil is not as effective as the old formulation. My p-doc told me he has a woman on 90 mg. It may be time to escalate the dose.
Posted by bulldog2 on November 1, 2008, at 18:00:38
In reply to Re: Nardil Almost 4 Weeks No Effects - Sedation, posted by jnew12 on November 1, 2008, at 14:17:36
> 60mg, been at the dose almost the whole time except for the first week i was at 30mg.
I've heard the new nardil is not as effective as the old formulation. My p-doc told me he has a woman on 90 mg. It may be time to escalate the dose.
Posted by bleauberry on November 1, 2008, at 18:02:52
In reply to Nardil Almost 4 Weeks No Effects - Sedation, posted by jnew12 on November 1, 2008, at 13:10:32
I just wanted to answer your comment that nardil is your last hope. Well, that just isn't true. There are too many meds and combinations out there for you to have tried them all.
When all the logical things have been tried, followed up with nardil, then parnate would be next. After that, choices still abound. Prozac+zyprexa+ritalin/provigil. Zoloft+nortriptyline. Lexapro+desipramine. Anythinng+risperdal. Anything+dexedrine(brand only). And in all choices, insist on brand names only...no generics. This is no time to cheap out. What else. Low dose naltrexone (LDN), read up on it. I could go on and on.
And don't forget the great meds around the world. Japan's number one antidepressant is Milnacipran. Easily available on the net mailorder. Just one example. Seems to have an impressive track record with treatment resistance and severe major depression, either by itself or especially when combined with very low dose risperdal.
Hopefully nardil will show some hint of something real soon. If you have to give up on it, the bright side is that you are one step closer to some med or combo that will have you feeling better, having weeded out another dud.
If you haven't tried parnate, that would be logically next, with no need for any long washout period inbetween.
Posted by azalea on November 1, 2008, at 18:42:06
In reply to Re: Nardil Almost 4 Weeks No Effects - Sedation » jnew12, posted by bleauberry on November 1, 2008, at 18:02:52
There is a MANDATORY 2 week wash-out when switching from Nardil to Parnate.
In addition, 4 weeks on Nardil at 60mg with little effect does not mean it's not going to work. Sometimes side effects like sedation occur before the actual antidepressant effect. Try to give it a few more weeks and possibly a higher dose (maximum is 90mg).
> If you haven't tried parnate, that would be logically next, with no need for any long washout period inbetween.
Posted by bulldog2 on November 1, 2008, at 18:50:35
In reply to Re: Nardil Almost 4 Weeks No Effects - Sedation » jnew12, posted by bleauberry on November 1, 2008, at 18:02:52
> I just wanted to answer your comment that nardil is your last hope. Well, that just isn't true. There are too many meds and combinations out there for you to have tried them all.
>
> When all the logical things have been tried, followed up with nardil, then parnate would be next. After that, choices still abound. Prozac+zyprexa+ritalin/provigil. Zoloft+nortriptyline. Lexapro+desipramine. Anythinng+risperdal. Anything+dexedrine(brand only). And in all choices, insist on brand names only...no generics. This is no time to cheap out. What else. Low dose naltrexone (LDN), read up on it. I could go on and on.
>
> And don't forget the great meds around the world. Japan's number one antidepressant is Milnacipran. Easily available on the net mailorder. Just one example. Seems to have an impressive track record with treatment resistance and severe major depression, either by itself or especially when combined with very low dose risperdal.
>
> Hopefully nardil will show some hint of something real soon. If you have to give up on it, the bright side is that you are one step closer to some med or combo that will have you feeling better, having weeded out another dud.
>
> If you haven't tried parnate, that would be logically next, with no need for any long washout period inbetween.You seem to like tca+ssri combos. Does the tca prevent ssri apathy that some report? Also are the tca's used in low dose.
Posted by that_guy23 on November 1, 2008, at 20:37:35
In reply to Nardil Almost 4 Weeks No Effects - Sedation, posted by jnew12 on November 1, 2008, at 13:10:32
Hey man I've been on nardil for 8 weeks, but I got uppe to fast. at the 5th week which I was at 75 and which I had noticed chandge in dpression, not alot but enough for everyone, even me to notice. Then I was upped to 105, couldn't handle it, bad orthostatic hypotension, dropped to 90 after 1week, still bad, dropped, to 75 after 13 days, now I'm sticking to 75, and still have ortho hypo, but it's not half as bad, also brought be back to depression. I advise you to saty on the nardil, for at least 3 to 6 months.
Just make sure you gradually go up 15 mgs at atime, and only when is felt needed, I'm probably back at your stage now. What dose are you at, did you start, was upped? Oh I'm also tryng to get a couteracting drug, so what is available?hope to hear back, good luck.
later
Posted by that_guy23 on November 1, 2008, at 20:42:30
In reply to Re: Nardil Almost 4 Weeks No Effects - Sedation, posted by bulldog2 on November 1, 2008, at 17:14:46
I guarentee you that this,formula, I don't know about the other one, but tis one is very potent, at 105, which yes is to hig, I was completely overruled by this drug, do not underestimate it, and give into the new, old formula crap
Posted by azalea on November 1, 2008, at 21:25:40
In reply to Re: Nardil Almost 4 Weeks No Effects - Sedation, posted by that_guy23 on November 1, 2008, at 20:37:35
Drug to counteract Nardil-induced hypotension?
> Oh I'm also tryng to get a couteracting drug, so what is available?
>
> hope to hear back, good luck.
>
> later
Posted by that_guy23 on November 2, 2008, at 12:50:08
In reply to counteract? » that_guy23, posted by azalea on November 1, 2008, at 21:25:40
NO just someting beside benzos, to help me for My anxiety right away still pretty bad. Like maybe provigal, or even low dose of ritalin, heard that aderall isn't good combo with nardil, and I know there are warnigs with ritalin, but, monitored with low dose is supposed to be safe enough, and I have heard of alot of provigal use.
Posted by JadeKelly on November 2, 2008, at 19:41:38
In reply to Re: counteract?, posted by that_guy23 on November 2, 2008, at 12:50:08
> NO just someting beside benzos, to help me for My anxiety right away still pretty bad. Like maybe provigal, or even low dose of ritalin, heard that aderall isn't good combo with nardil, and I know there are warnigs with ritalin, but, monitored with low dose is supposed to be safe enough, and I have heard of alot of provigal use.
Hey that guy,
Hope all is well after your bad experience with high dose of Nardil. Wondering why you're looking to augment Nardil with stims for 2 reasons:
1.They are contraindicated (don't mix) with MAOI's big time. You just had a close call. A GOOD time to be extra vigilant, no?
2. Stims will not help with anxiety!! They'll make it worse!!
Anything you saw on this site about adding some small amt of stim was probably a longggg time user of MAOI's, and was taking a risk with his/her health. I can't imagine any PDoc adding a stim to an MAOI. Ask your PDoc. I think you'll get a better option than a stim to help with anxiety while on Nardil.
Don't mean to rain on your parade, just afraid you may mix something u shouldn't.
Be well! Jade
Posted by that_guy23 on November 4, 2008, at 23:58:39
In reply to Re: counteract? » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 2, 2008, at 19:41:38
yeah ut what, I need some auqmentation to go with nardil, Why not stims, and what would be better, and quicker?
Posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 8:48:31
In reply to Re: counteract?, posted by that_guy23 on November 4, 2008, at 23:58:39
> yeah ut what, I need some auqmentation to go with nardil, Why not stims, and what would be better, and quicker?
Hi that guy, I geuss I was just thinking that Parnate revs things up, if I had anxiety it would be bad combo. But maybe Nardil is different. If you do go stim route, I hear small amount of ritalin is safest way to go, could be wrong.
Had hypertensive crisis couple weeks ago, a little paranoid, wouldn't wish that on anyone!
How long and what dose did you say you are on with Nardil? As for other choices for anxiety, if stims too much, I like klonopin. I'm sure you know what you can handle. (I didn't, still don't!!)
But again, thats me. Your PDoc would know best. Good luck with whatever you decide and please be careful!
Cheers-Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 8:56:12
In reply to Re: counteract? I geuss rit or klon maybe? » that_guy23, posted by JadeKelly on November 5, 2008, at 8:48:31
PS- went back and read your post, I've taken ritalin and Providgil, Ritilan for many years, prov for less than week. prov is very wiry, anxious feeling (for me). Ritalin is more happily motivated sorta feeling. Just my experience with them. I'm sure other posters have losts of ideas on this.-Jade
Posted by FredPotter on November 6, 2008, at 15:39:18
In reply to Nardil Almost 4 Weeks No Effects - Sedation, posted by jnew12 on November 1, 2008, at 13:10:32
I was like you. 6.5 weeks and bang - it worked. Weight gain and no sex life but eventually I found these receded somewhat Fred
Posted by kenny7 on November 12, 2008, at 2:35:37
In reply to Re: Nardil Almost 4 Weeks No Effects - Sedation » jnew12, posted by FredPotter on November 6, 2008, at 15:39:18
Should I stay on my dose of my klonopin while the Nardil takes time to build up. I am currently at 90 mg after about a month. Taking klonopin as I would w/o Nardil is likely to be important in order to keep the same brain chem; yes? I will TRY to begin to withdraw from this 2-3mg a day sh*t once it kicks in fully. I believe I will have to augment. I do not feel like being sedated...I miss my adderall and a low dose Dex sounds great but I don't fool around. Does anyone know of any augmentation strategies (minus one with a benzo....) that have been effective (highly :)) NO psycho medications...haha
Posted by JadeKelly on November 12, 2008, at 8:34:27
In reply to KLONOPIN AND NARDIL, posted by kenny7 on November 12, 2008, at 2:35:37
> Should I stay on my dose of my klonopin while the Nardil takes time to build up. I am currently at 90 mg after about a month. Taking klonopin as I would w/o Nardil is likely to be important in order to keep the same brain chem; yes? I will TRY to begin to withdraw from this 2-3mg a day sh*t once it kicks in fully. I believe I will have to augment. I do not feel like being sedated...I miss my adderall and a low dose Dex sounds great but I don't fool around. Does anyone know of any augmentation strategies (minus one with a benzo....) that have been effective (highly :)) NO psycho medications...haha
Hi Kenny,
I'm in same situation except I'm taking 30mg Parnate, one month, and 3mg Klonopin. If I could just drop the Klon today, I would, but I'm afraid the w/d's would interfere with my response to Parnate. I know that a lot of people augment these MAOI's. One problem I see with Nardil and Klonopin is fatigue. Do you get that? Parnates a little more "jittery". Anyway, look at Scott's (SLS) thread on "miracle"drugs, I think he lists some augments, maybe others do as well. Not sure. I'll post back if I run across something :)
~Jade
PS-I plan to augment as well!
Posted by kenny7 on November 12, 2008, at 22:44:00
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL » kenny7, posted by JadeKelly on November 12, 2008, at 8:34:27
I'm pretty sure I do not get daytime somnolence. I've had insomnia my entire life so I can't tell if the Nardil is worsening it. I've have libido problems (an with Nardil as you may know, problems finishing) and am going to ask my pdoc about Cabergoline. I haven't read anything about that med increasing energy though. I also want to find a way to prevent the down regulation of the DA receptors. I used to abuse Adderall alot (no comment) and altough I doubt it I fear some detremental effects. I am just so happy I am on Nardil not too long after the onset of this crippling disorder...
Posted by kenny7 on November 12, 2008, at 22:48:18
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL » kenny7, posted by JadeKelly on November 12, 2008, at 8:34:27
Found it...pumped to read this
Posted by JadeKelly on November 13, 2008, at 7:39:42
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL, posted by kenny7 on November 12, 2008, at 22:48:18
> Found it...pumped to read this
Hi Kenny, not sure what you found, however, yeah, if Klonopin and Nardil don't make you too tired during the day, you may want to stay on, I am. Another thing I know a lot do with PDoc is add SMALL amount of ritalin. Again, I def would'nt do that with out PDoc ok. I'm sure you'll find other augment strategies on the board, or do a search.
Good luck!!~Jade
Posted by kenny7 on November 13, 2008, at 13:48:02
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL » kenny7, posted by JadeKelly on November 13, 2008, at 7:39:42
I've loved this site for years but don't find any of the augmentation strategies great. Mood stabilizers etc...More sedation? Hell, I might need it. Just not Lamictal god damn...I want to try a dopamine agonist pretty bad.
Posted by JadeKelly on November 14, 2008, at 12:23:36
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL, posted by kenny7 on November 13, 2008, at 13:48:02
> I've loved this site for years but don't find any of the augmentation strategies great. Mood stabilizers etc...More sedation? Hell, I might need it. Just not Lamictal god damn...I want to try a dopamine agonist pretty bad.
Maybe you could post a specific thread asking for Nardil Augmentations. Sometimes the experts in a certain area (Nardil) aren't on the board the day you post but be pateint. I've posted about the same thing but worded it differently, on different days, and have gotten more satisfactory answers. I know there are many that have been used. I, too, have watched this site for a long time but I always did a search based on what I was looking for. Go to google, or the feature may be here, I don't recall, put in Nardil and Augmentation Psychobabble and you'll have access to a lot of older posts that are still relevant. Maybe do a search for dopamine agonists too, you never Know! Hope that helps.~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on November 14, 2008, at 13:25:43
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL, posted by kenny7 on November 13, 2008, at 13:48:02
Kenny,
I just read your above post and it sounds like you know as much as anyone about these meds!I will follow YOUR posts and maybe I'll learn something..haha. What do you not like about Klonopin? I'm on 1mg 3xday. Long term effects I should know about? I've been on for years. What concerns me is that poster in one of these threads (you?) said that long term use can cause depression, is this true? I take for nerve pain, otherwise don't need it other than afraid of W/D's.
Thanks for anything you know. Also, what are some dopamine antagonists you are considering to
augment Nardil?Regards, Jade
Posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 15:54:39
In reply to Re: KLONOPIN AND NARDIL, posted by JadeKelly on November 14, 2008, at 13:25:43
Yeah, I'm trying to be a pharmacist. I loved Klonopin at the beginning! I had a friend who gave me a big bag of them...I never used it recreationally (which I heard was great) because they worked so well. I had Dysthymia which in turn go exacerbated by , simply put, being down all the time. Which works for most people...So one can assume my depression got worse. And it has been since June or maybe even earlier. You take it for nerve pain you said? Isn't Valium better for that (at least when talking benzos...)? And if you're afraid of withdrawal (which I think you meant) Valium has a longer half life and theoretically is harder to get addicted to. Is it post operative nerve pain...fibromyalgia...?There are better things for that but if it works don't sweat it. And I hope I didn't say I wanted to take a dopamine agonist, I don't want TD when I'm other. And I don't need them anyways...But the dopamine agonists ,which I know you meant to say, that I am looking at are broad. There are not too common but I am a fan of Dopamine and do not wish to use a stimulant again.
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