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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cactus on October 25, 2008, at 17:13:39
OK, so I've on 6mg of clonazepam a day. After talking with my GP and psychologist, both have agreed that I can finally start my taper to reduce my dose. I have been on 5mg a day for a week now and I'm sleeping for about 10hrs a night, which for me, is just awesome. I have had no other side effects so far. I feel really refreshed.
Does anyone know what would help stimulate regeneration of depleted GABA receptors?
Should I start doing it now or wait until I've weened down to a lower dose?
I'd love to hear what you have to say.
Posted by Sigismund on October 25, 2008, at 18:54:33
In reply to ideas for regenerating GABA receptors?, posted by cactus on October 25, 2008, at 17:13:39
>Does anyone know what would help stimulate regeneration of depleted GABA receptors?
I've never heard of any except that benzo receptor antagonist thingo that would be disastrous for you.
What I have to get through my head is that if I want to reduce my Valium dose I have to stop drinking more or less completely, because even a few oz of spirits in the evening wrecks my sleep, then I take more Valium, then I drink much more tea and am exhausted all day, so then I want a drink at night and so on.
Posted by Phillipa on October 25, 2008, at 19:45:29
In reply to Re: ideas for regenerating GABA receptors? » cactus, posted by Sigismund on October 25, 2008, at 18:54:33
Was the opposite for me drank beer and.5 xanax and slept like a baby and got the best sleep ever. Love PJ
Posted by bleauberry on October 25, 2008, at 21:59:16
In reply to ideas for regenerating GABA receptors?, posted by cactus on October 25, 2008, at 17:13:39
Best things I can think of...
Slowly eliminate caffeinated coffee.
Slowly eliminate and avoid sugars...regular sugar, fruit juices.
Heavy on proteins.
Heavy on raw or slightly cooked veggies.
Some fruits, mostly either berries or granny smith apples. Others have too much sugar.
Low dose 5htp...by low dose I'm talking dust on the end of a finger, maybe 5mg to 10mg.
If you are a chocolate lover like I am, stick to small amounts of dark only.
B vitamins, with emphasis on B6, niacinimide (not niacin), and thiamine. Possibly avoid folic acid.
Low to medium dose magnesium.With the above diet implemented in a slow orderly strategic fashion, the same as tapering on or off a drug, your body and hormones and neurotransmitters will have the environment they need to do what they were designed to do. The above strategy reduces or eliminates the things that put us in reverse gear in terms of healing the nervous system and hormones. We want to be in forward gear.
By the time you slowly get all the things above well under control will be 4 to 6 months from now and you will probably have forgotten, so print this out and hang it on your fridge. If you are following the plan like a bible and you mess up one day, don't worry about it, get back on track the next day and stay on track. Once a week or a couple times a month, treat yourself to something you miss as a reward. One time now and then won't derail the process.
The power of what we consume is highly underappreciated. That's probably because results take 3 to 12 months to see, not days or weeks, and we are all in a world of wanting things right now by taking short cuts that actually keep us entrapped in a non-healing state.
Posted by cactus on October 26, 2008, at 1:25:20
In reply to Re: ideas for regenerating GABA receptors?, posted by bleauberry on October 25, 2008, at 21:59:16
Thanks bleauberry, I'll copy that info onto my desktop. I could improve my diet right about now and I'm all for a healthy balanced diet. The supplements you mentioned was exactly the kind of info I was after, so thanks again, Peace C
Posted by Extreme on October 26, 2008, at 12:01:28
In reply to Re: ideas for regenerating GABA receptors? » bleauberry, posted by cactus on October 26, 2008, at 1:25:20
Xanax XR is perfect (for me) for dealing with withdrawal symptoms from other "standard fast acting bensos".
Posted by cactus on October 26, 2008, at 16:46:19
In reply to Re: ideas for regenerating GABA receptors?, posted by Extreme on October 26, 2008, at 12:01:28
Thanks for your input extreme but xanax is the only benzo that I can't touch. It doesn't like me and makes my anxiety sky rocket. I have a paradoxical reaction to it and it also gives me mild akathisia. No other benzo I have tried has ever done that to me and I have tried quite a few.
Posted by Extreme on October 26, 2008, at 17:00:59
In reply to Re: ideas for regenerating GABA receptors? » Extreme, posted by cactus on October 26, 2008, at 16:46:19
> Thanks for your input extreme but xanax is the only benzo that I can't touch. It doesn't like me and makes my anxiety sky rocket. I have a paradoxical reaction to it and it also gives me mild akathisia. No other benzo I have tried has ever done that to me and I have tried quite a few.
Oh... sorry to hear that. Actually I get really slim effects from standard quick acting xanax... just goes sleepy , nothing else happens, no improvement in anxiety. But the XR-version is usefull in many ways for me. Wish they could come up with more "extended release-form benso".. as far as I know, at least in sweden, xanax (alprazolam) is the only benso that has the extended relase-version.
Posted by shasling on October 26, 2008, at 23:36:33
In reply to ideas for regenerating GABA receptors?, posted by cactus on October 25, 2008, at 17:13:39
> OK, so I've on 6mg of clonazepam a day. After talking with my GP and psychologist, both have agreed that I can finally start my taper to reduce my dose. I have been on 5mg a day for a week now and I'm sleeping for about 10hrs a night, which for me, is just awesome. I have had no other side effects so far. I feel really refreshed.
>
> Does anyone know what would help stimulate regeneration of depleted GABA receptors?
>
> Should I start doing it now or wait until I've weened down to a lower dose?
>
> I'd love to hear what you have to say.Not sure if this was mentioned,but the drug Gabitril is a potent gaba med.You might want to look up the exact actions of it,but i believe its a gaba re-uptake inhibitor.
Also there is actualy an over the counter product that is said to increase gaba,which i l-theanine,again you might want to do a search on that and its affect with gaba.Last Taurine is another otc nutrient that is second to gaba as far as inhibitory and although doesent increase gaba right away,its actions in time by blocking glutamte result in a increase in gaba.
Id do a quick search on the above.Good luck
Posted by yxibow on October 28, 2008, at 23:49:15
In reply to Re: ideas for regenerating GABA receptors? » Extreme, posted by cactus on October 26, 2008, at 16:46:19
> Thanks for your input extreme but xanax is the only benzo that I can't touch. It doesn't like me and makes my anxiety sky rocket. I have a paradoxical reaction to it and it also gives me mild akathisia. No other benzo I have tried has ever done that to me and I have tried quite a few.
Its not surprising. Xanax is slightly activating hence its fast response so you had a paradoxical reaction.
Nothing really will "heal" GABA receptors but time. I don't know where I'm going with my Valium taper, its complicated because I don't know if I can actually go below the amount I have now without seriously raising every aspect of my disorder (and there are a fair number).
I'm getting much more fear now which I could do without, sort of rushing panic attacks that go out of control at times, situational based.
I'm surprised you can just go from 6 to 5, or was there taper in between? That's even more Klonopin/Valium conversion over than I ever took, but then I saw someone on here mention they took 30mg of Klonopin which sounds like instant respiratory depression for those not used to it. I hope that was a typo.
No, I don't think being on IV flumazenil for weeks would do anything either except cause cardiac arrest -- sorry, sounds a bit flippant.
Maybe low dose Librium? But that's just getting back into the benzo area anyhow.
Neurontin/Lyrica as a substitute temporarily, possibly, but that also has a potential of flooding the receptor too.
And I'm on both (Neurontin). And Lamictal, which doesn't function that way.
So I'm in the same boat I'm afraid... the Valium is doing what it still is doing after 4 years but I feel no "zing" from any benzo or benzo related product. My doctor and I know its still doing something, because its not just pure withdrawal, my rare symptoms have spiked. You could say its revealing anxiety again, I'm not sure.
Anyhow, that's just my story.
Time, I'd say, ultimately, and replacement with another anxiolytic class, an AED or a sleepy SSRI like Paxil. Or I hate to suggest it because I'm also on it too and need it for off label reasons and wish I could get rid of it, Seroquel, but at a lower dose.
-- best wishes
Jay
Posted by cactus on October 30, 2008, at 2:50:13
In reply to Re: ideas for regenerating GABA receptors? » cactus, posted by yxibow on October 28, 2008, at 23:49:15
Thanks for advice and suggestions Jay. I think I'll just continue my taper. I'm going to see how 10-20% works but I'll go slower as I go lower.
I can't believe how much calmer and better I'm sleeping, it's just plain weird, but I'm going with it. I'm finding it even easier to taper than valium but then again the only benzo that messed me up was xanax. I taper off benzo's quite well but xanax was hell on earth. Nothing compares to SSRI withdrawal for me, that's my big nasty. Peace C
If you like to babblemail me as a benzo withdrawal buddy maybe we can help each other form the opposite sides of the world.
Posted by Questionmark on November 2, 2008, at 21:49:21
In reply to Re: ideas for regenerating GABA receptors? » yxibow, posted by cactus on October 30, 2008, at 2:50:13
Would these be helpful for benzo withdrawal at all? Like tizanidine or clonidine? I mean, not as a full substitute of course, but, partial.
Anyhow good luck to all of you with that. It must be difficult.
Posted by yxibow on November 3, 2008, at 2:15:40
In reply to Adrenergic alpha-2 agonists?, posted by Questionmark on November 2, 2008, at 21:49:21
> Would these be helpful for benzo withdrawal at all? Like tizanidine or clonidine? I mean, not as a full substitute of course, but, partial.
> Anyhow good luck to all of you with that. It must be difficult.Clonidine and Tenex are used for rage in ADHD children; as for anxiety, they are weak agents, at least in my experience -- I also tried Tenex for tics but that didn't work out -- anyhow that's a different issue.
There's also the issue of getting angioedema from agents like that and becoming sensitized. It is conceivable. However it is, they should not be stopped suddenly. They're heart drugs.
Propranolol would be a better choice, a dose judiciously chosen -- and definitely not at the same time as clonidine/guanfacine.
If you run a low pulse or low blood pressure it probably isn't a good idea to use a beta blocker because your heart is after all a muscle just like the peripherals that propranolol stabilize.
Non-cardioselective beta blockers should be used only really, basically propranolol -- they work on peripherals more, they're older and don't just touch the heart mostly like the more newer agents such as metoprolol.
This is the end of the thread.
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