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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Trotter on October 6, 2008, at 0:49:36
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine » Trotter, posted by Sigismund on October 6, 2008, at 0:09:33
Thanks for your clarification regarding weirdness and anxiety after long term Tieneptine use. Not really what I wanted to hear starting out on it, but I guess it makes me a bit more realistic in my expectations. I was under the impression that any side effects would be short term in nature. Maybe I'll be lucky, and then there's always Agomelatine, and then the next one .....
Posted by Tomatheus on October 6, 2008, at 1:00:52
In reply to Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by Trotter on October 5, 2008, at 17:20:05
> I would appreciate status updates on others using Tianeptine.
Trotter,
Welcome to Psycho-Babble. Thank you for sharing your medication experiences with us.
I currently take 37.5 mg of tianeptine for depression associated with schizoaffective disorder. I've been taking the tianeptine with Abilify for more than two months, and as a whole, I'd say that I've noticed a mild reduction in my depressive symptoms since I started taking it. I don't feel like I'm in full remission, and the tianeptine doesn't address all of my symptoms (for example, it doesn't help with hypersomnia). I have, however, noticed that it boosts my mood some and also my energy levels to a lesser extent. Most importantly, it's relatively consistent in its effects and hasn't induced any kind of mood cycling. So, I'd say that I'm getting a partial-but-consistent antidepressant response from it, which is more than I can say that I get from most antidepressants. I've found it to be a pretty good medication.
Tomatheus
Posted by Quintal on October 6, 2008, at 2:18:31
In reply to Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by Trotter on October 5, 2008, at 17:20:05
Hi Trotter,
I've taken tianeptine on and off for years and it has always worked when I came back to it. I had a very nasty bout of depression in June and tianeptine brought me out of it and back to normal in under a week. I've been taking it for three months now (the longest I've ever taken it) and it works just the same as it did in the beginning. I suppose the degree of remission depends on what sort of response you're looking for from a med. I just want to feel mellow and content with the world, and I find tianeptine is great for that. Someone looking for something to rev them up and give that 'ready to take on the world' type of feeling may feel they're not getting the full antidepresant response they want from tianeptine.
The biggest problem I've had is that it sometimes causes 'spaciness' and lack of focus. I presume this has something to do with its anti-NE effect. I also take Lamictal and I think that contributes to the poor focus. I have tried adding noradrenergic meds to it with some success, but they come with their own problems.
The thing I like most about tianeptine is that I still feel the full spectrum of emotions, and of course that my sexual parts are still functioning. It is a good med and I recommend it to everyone who has had no luck with SSRIs etc. It doesn't work for everyone, and sometimes people try to ruin it for people who have, but I'd recommed you give it a good long trial - provided nothing untoward crops up of course. I too am very excited about agomelatine and it is high on the list of meds I want to try next, as much out of curiosity as anything else. I hope tianeptine works well for you.
Q
Posted by Trotter on October 6, 2008, at 4:33:23
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by Quintal on October 6, 2008, at 2:18:31
Hi Quintal, thanks for your update.
> The biggest problem I've had is that it sometimes causes 'spaciness' and lack of focus. I presume this has something to do with its anti-NE effect. I also take Lamictal and I think that contributes to the poor focus. I have tried adding noradrenergic meds to it with some success, but they come with their own problems.
I am experiencing this 'spaciness and lack of focus' at the moment, but I am hoping this is transient. Much too early to tell (day 6).
>
> The thing I like most about tianeptine is that I still feel the full spectrum of emotions, and of course that my sexual parts are still functioning. It is a good med and I recommend it to everyone who has had no luck with SSRIs etc.I am not looking for a miracle with Tianeptine. I will be happy if I can get a significant improvement in symptoms with negligible side effects. If I can get the same response I had with Fluoxetine, but without the crap, I'll be very happy - figuratively speaking :)
It doesn't work for everyone, and sometimes people try to ruin it for people who have, but I'd recommed you give it a good long trial - provided nothing untoward crops up of course. I too am very excited about agomelatine and it is high on the list of meds I want to try next, as much out of curiosity as anything else. I hope tianeptine works well for you.
>Thanks. I have a good feeling about this one.
Posted by Trotter on October 6, 2008, at 4:45:44
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine » Trotter, posted by Tomatheus on October 6, 2008, at 1:00:52
Thanks Tomatheus,
I'm not familiar with schizoaffective disorder type depression but I guess it is more complicated than my garden variety unipolar depression. Sorry Tianeptine doesn't help your hypersomnia. Can I trade you some of my insomnia? A couple of nights a week should do it. Just enough to pay off my sleep debt :)
From what I've read, your mood and energy levels may continue to improve for another month yet on Tianeptine. I would be interested to know if it does.
Posted by Trotter on October 9, 2008, at 14:37:25
In reply to Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by Trotter on October 5, 2008, at 17:20:05
Day 10 on Tianeptine.
I have noticed a general increase in emotional sensitivity. This is most noticeble when I feel strong negative feelings such as anger, hatred, paranoia, but I am also aware of a greater desire to make social connection and sometimes a sexual urge too.
A couple of times I have experienced a nice stimulant effect, when I definitely felt more energised and I felt the urge to be active - to engage in hedonic pursuit. With my chronic anhedonia this is almost a forgotten feeling!
As far as depression goes, no improvement yet. In fact my daily mood ratings reveal a significant downturn since starting Tianeptine. I don't think the Tianeptine has actually worsened the depression. I think what happened was that I became more stressed than usual by some negative social interactions in the past week or so (because I have been more emotionally sensitive). My depression is usually worse the day after a stressful event. I think my underlying depression is unchanged, but my stress levels have been higher, giving the depression more opportunity to raise its ugly head.
Is this info helpful to anyone? I need to decide whether to provide regular updates on my Tieneptine experience or not.
Posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2008, at 19:56:15
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by Trotter on October 9, 2008, at 14:37:25
Your reaction to stress is just like mine day after or a couple. Phillipa
Posted by Trotter on October 9, 2008, at 21:26:10
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine » Trotter, posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2008, at 19:56:15
> Your reaction to stress is just like mine day after or a couple. Phillipa
Do you think this means anything? I suspect this link of depression following a day or two after stress is not an uncommon experience with depressed people, but I wonder if it provides some indication of what in particular is wrong with our brains and what type of AD might be most responsive. Tianeptine is supposed to repair the hippocampus which is often atrophied due to depression related stress. Do you think this makes it more likely I will have a good response, or is it simply a fact that all types of depression involve stress?
Posted by clipper40 on October 10, 2008, at 3:16:39
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by Trotter on October 9, 2008, at 14:37:25
Yes, I am finding your updates helpful since this is a medication I'm considering trying. Thanks.
Posted by Trotter on October 10, 2008, at 14:14:20
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine » Trotter, posted by clipper40 on October 10, 2008, at 3:16:39
> Yes, I am finding your updates helpful since this is a medication I'm considering trying. Thanks.
Hi Clipper,
You're a fellow psychonaut, am I right? Sounds like we might be on a similar path. Have you also tried a pretty wide range of prescription meds to no avail?
Regards, Trotter
Posted by Trotter on October 10, 2008, at 14:35:45
In reply to Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by Trotter on October 5, 2008, at 17:20:05
Day 11
Still feeling "spaciness and lack of focus" first mentioned by Quintal. I can also relate to a sense of "weirdness and anxiety" mentioned by Sigismund. I am forgetting to do things, including routine habits. Short term memory is affected. I have to think hard sometimes to remember whether I took my Tianeptine dose or not.
Trotter
Posted by clipper40 on October 10, 2008, at 15:17:38
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine » clipper40, posted by Trotter on October 10, 2008, at 14:14:20
Yes, I'm a psychonaut too! I've tried a lot of medications as well. I have no trouble finding medications that work for my anxiety but the depression and lack of motivation are another story.
Posted by clipper40 on October 10, 2008, at 15:21:07
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by Trotter on October 10, 2008, at 14:35:45
Strange symptoms since I've read that tianeptine is supposed to be good for focus/concentration. Hopefully the spaciness and anxiety will diminish soon.
Posted by Tomatheus on October 10, 2008, at 18:06:52
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by Trotter on October 9, 2008, at 14:37:25
Trotter,
As a fellow tianeptine user, I find your updates to be helpful and informative. It's always interesting to read about how others respond to psychiatric medications in general, IMO.
Tomatheus
Posted by Phillipa on October 10, 2008, at 18:44:59
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine » Phillipa, posted by Trotter on October 9, 2008, at 21:26:10
Trotter you feel all depression involves stress? Know quite a few who only experience anxiety. Phillipa
Posted by Trotter on October 10, 2008, at 19:21:46
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine » Trotter, posted by Phillipa on October 10, 2008, at 18:44:59
> Trotter you feel all depression involves stress? Know quite a few who only experience anxiety. Phillipa
I know my depression involves stress. I can't say that everyone's depression involves stress, although I think I have read that some scientists believe that to be the case. I am 100% sure that not everyone who experiences stress gets depressed. I think the popular theory with depression is that most sufferers have a predisposition (genetic and/or early childhood experiences) and an episode is triggered by a stressful event. I don't know much about anxiety, but I would expect stress triggers anxiety in those with a predisposition for anxiety.
Trotter
Posted by Trotter on October 14, 2008, at 23:10:16
In reply to Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by Trotter on October 5, 2008, at 17:20:05
Day 15
No really significant side effects, so I can understand how this drug has a low reported side effect profile, yet that doesn't mean it's all plain sailing.
My unanswered mail is building up, my favorite project is lying idle, I'm not answering my phone, I'm looking for excuses to avoid social commitments .... These are all signs of worsening depression. I seem to get worse on most ADs before they eventually kick in. This one is no exception. I'll get through it.
Posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2008, at 23:28:26
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by Trotter on October 14, 2008, at 23:10:16
Trotter really you get worse first? I hope it starts to turn around for you soon and don't forget to keep writing babblemail me also. Love Phillipa
Posted by clipper40 on October 15, 2008, at 2:27:54
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by Trotter on October 14, 2008, at 23:10:16
Not having any significant side effects at least makes the waiting time easier.
Posted by Trotter on October 18, 2008, at 4:26:32
In reply to Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by Trotter on October 5, 2008, at 17:20:05
Day 18
I think I have reached a neutral stage. I don't have any significant negative side effects, although I am perhaps just a little more vague and tense than usual. The more severe depression I experienced for 10 days or so seems to have eased. I am pretty much back to how I was before starting Tianeptine.
I am satisfied that things are on track. No antidepressant or anxiolytic benefit yet, but I was not expecting any real benefit inside a month or so. I'm just content not to be suffering from significant side effects. Sleep and sex are certainly no worse, maybe even slightly improved.
Trotter
Posted by missmolly on October 19, 2008, at 17:57:20
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by Trotter on October 18, 2008, at 4:26:32
Hello - I just wanted to say that I have been following your posts, and I appreciate the updates on your experience with Tianeptine. I am going to begin taking Tianeptine next week for the first time - although I have no current or history of depression. I am taking it because I have Huntingtons Disease - a heredity neurodegenerative disorder. HD's first effects on the brain are atrophy of the hippocampus - much the same as is seen in the brains of those who have major depression. In fact, the first symptoms of HD are usually depression - although I am not yet symptomatic. My neurologist has suggested I begin a Tianeptine regimine- as more of a 'hail mary pass' that this will delay the onset of the disease (other SSRI's are currently in clinical trials for the treatment of HD-but tianeptine has shown less side effects and similar neuroprotective benefits). There is currently no cure, and no treatments for HD. It is always terminal - so I am willing to try just about anything. I would greatly appreciate any information on expected side effects - or any predictions on what this will do to my mood, etc - as I am not depressed. I am in the US - and although my doctor is quite progressive, he doesn't seem to have much experience with this medicine either - so I'm trying my best to educate myself.
Many Thanks to you all for sharing!
~M
Posted by Trotter on October 19, 2008, at 19:06:43
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by missmolly on October 19, 2008, at 17:57:20
Hi missmolly, sorry to hear you have HD. I think you are doing the right thing in finding out what you can about a medication before taking it.
Of course I don't know much about HD, but if it involves atrophy of the hippocampus, and likely future depression, then I can certainly understand why Tianeptine was prescribed. According to Servier, Tianeptine does more neural regeneration than other ADs. Have you checked out Servier's website for the science behind Tianeptine?
As far as side effects go, a lot of people experience vivid dreaming. I do too, but I don't find this a major problem. This is probably the only side effect you can pretty much count on getting. Other side effects are individual. Some people don't notice any. Since you've already read my posts, you are already familiar with my own experiences.
Take care, Trotter.
Posted by Phillipa on October 19, 2008, at 19:38:57
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by missmolly on October 19, 2008, at 17:57:20
Missmolly I so deeply sorry and agree would try just about anything. How did you discover you has this disease if I might ask. Phillipa
Posted by missmolly on October 19, 2008, at 23:31:38
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine » missmolly, posted by Phillipa on October 19, 2008, at 19:38:57
> Missmolly I so deeply sorry and agree would try just about anything. How did you discover you has this disease if I might ask. Phillipa
Hi Phillipa - Thanks for responding :) HD is passed down from a carrier of the gene, any children will have a 50% chance of having it. My mother, grandfather and aunt have all died of HD. I was tested for the HD gene 6 months ago because I was deciding if I would have a family - I tested positive, and I have decided not to have children (atleast until they find a cure ;) I have a brother who has decided not to be tested. I'm 29, and with my CAG repeat# on chromosone 4 (a predictor of when you will first show symptoms in HD) I shouldn't start to show symptoms until I am 35 or 36....so I am looking at Tianeptine for long term use. Has anyone heard of any problems with long term use? Of course its possible they will find something that shows better neuroprotection/neurogenesis, but until then I'll be trying out the Tianeptine. Is this a common drug? I've heard its used more in Europe than in the US? I also have a Swedish citizenship - does anyone know if it is available there? I've just checked out their website-and I'm still a bit confused about how it works (for depression or neuroprotection). It seems maybe nobody understands fully since it seems to have an opposite effect on serotonin, correct? Is it the BDNF that is ultimately affected then? I could have misunderstood...
...geez, all these acronyms. Maybe I'll go work for a pharmaceutical co for the next 7 or 8 years since it looks like I'm going to be learning alot about this stuff anyway :)
Best ~M
Posted by Trotter on October 20, 2008, at 0:46:26
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and Agomelatine, posted by missmolly on October 19, 2008, at 23:31:38
>It seems maybe nobody understands fully since it seems to have an opposite effect on serotonin, correct?
I think you are probably quite right - nobody knows for sure what's going on.
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