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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jeroen on October 3, 2008, at 11:48:34
hi, i think seroquel is my last hope to cure the lamictal dopamine induced psychosis i suffer a year and a half now
with cure i mean 800 mg, but theres a catchi get heavy tachardia and pannick attacks on dosage above 200 mg
but 400 mg or 800 mg for 2 weeks might cure the damage
THIS IS HELL FOR ME THOSE TACHARDIA ATTACKS LASTS 1 HOUR, CAN I DIE FROM THIS
ITS LIKE HAVING A HEART ATTACK, but i think it can reverse psychosis in high dosage or just kill me
experts your opinion please
Posted by Phillipa on October 3, 2008, at 12:32:34
In reply to my friends - seroquel .... reverse psychosis, posted by Jeroen on October 3, 2008, at 11:48:34
Jeroen you know I'm not an expert just care about you. Still in hospital or home? Does your doc want to raise the seroquel to that or is this your thoughts? Love Phillipa
Posted by brot on October 3, 2008, at 13:00:13
In reply to my friends - seroquel .... reverse psychosis, posted by Jeroen on October 3, 2008, at 11:48:34
Dear Jeroen,
I could be wrong but I am wondering about a few things.
the drugs that help you, as you said, are seroquel and abilify. both have a strong serotonergic effect.
One thing i know of what lamictal changes in your brain is that it upregulates serotonin 5ht-1a receptors. as far as I know these receptors regulate the activity of the whole serotonergic system. its an inhibitory receptor. which means lamictal might dampen down your serotonin system. serotonin is also able to inhibit dopamine to some degree. maybe this change still lasts and due to that your dopamine system might be too active. its a known fact that lamictal is one of a few mood stabilisers which can produce psychosis.
well, might work or maybe not, but maybe a ssri will reverse this dysregulation. because as far as i know they downregulate the 5ht-1a receptor, which causes disinhibition of this system. it will counteract the change lamictal causes on that receptors.
If I were you I would give an ssri like escitalopram a try, because its somewhat unlikely to worsen psychosis. tried it yet?
but no garantee.. its far more complex than this.
good luck
Posted by Jeroen on October 3, 2008, at 13:06:31
In reply to Re: my friends - seroquel .... reverse psychosis » Jeroen, posted by brot on October 3, 2008, at 13:00:13
hi, already tryed paxil and i must say at first it did do something to what youre saying, but after a month my psychosis got worse and had to quit
nightmare it was
nice going there brot : )
Posted by yxibow on October 3, 2008, at 22:59:53
In reply to my friends - seroquel .... reverse psychosis, posted by Jeroen on October 3, 2008, at 11:48:34
> hi, i think seroquel is my last hope to cure the lamictal dopamine induced psychosis i suffer a year and a half now
I still wonder about the cause and effect issue on this one, but I'm not going to go over that one again -- if you truly believe that this is the case, I mean I suppose rare things do happen, I prefer not to think about some results of medications that I have for some indefinite period. But there again, does it serve one a purpose to continue to think of them? That is a very hard one for me. Anyhow -- that's just myself, I don't want do to too much transference.
> with cure i mean 800 mg, but theres a catch
>
> i get heavy tachardia and pannick attacks on dosage above 200 mg
>
> but 400 mg or 800 mg for 2 weeks might cure the damageThis part I'm not sure of -- if you're getting heavy heart side effects at the moment from Seroquel wouldn't it be more a better idea to back off and slowly go up?
Its likely that 400 or 800 would increase these side effects, unless as you say they aren't side effects but you're having heavy anxiety at the moment as I noted below.
That in itself can cause spells of tachychardia, or even the feeling of heavy heart even when it isn't actually measurable or even life threatening on a cuff measure.
More neuroleptics -- lots more, isn't necessarily better, its a matter of time at a dose sufficient to overcome the most significant problems you face.
> THIS IS HELL FOR ME THOSE TACHARDIA ATTACKS LASTS 1 HOUR, CAN I DIE FROM THIS
>
> ITS LIKE HAVING A HEART ATTACK, but i think it can reverse psychosis in high dosage or just kill me
>
> experts your opinion pleaseDefine tachycardia. Is it a feeling of anxiety or are you experiencing a pulse rate of 160+ ?
For someone that I think your age is about, that isn't not going kill you, if it is just an hour. Beta blockers would easily stop that, but that's up to your doctor.
On the other hand, it isn't a good idea to have medications and then have more medications to patch the previous one, unless it is necessary to have the first one in the first place.
I think you and your doctors have to settle whether you are having side effects or whether your panic and anxiety level are higher at the moment for some psychological reason or otherwise.
That's the best that I can say, I can't tell you what is the best agent, I can only say that when you are trying an agent, as I've mentioned before, a good trial has to be done.
Because when you find that combination, that is what you will be sticking to for quite some time to get your disorder under control, and I can't predict that for you any more than for myself -- that is if you want to continue to take it. That is up to you, I assume, unless you have no power of decision in a hospital.
But I would assume by now you would be in a clinic, you have been in the hospital quite some time, even for medication management.
I hope for you the best and a return to the outside world which I think would also benefit you, even if you cannot resolve everything. Sometimes we can't resolve everything, but we can certainly achieve better happiness.
But to return to the main topic -- no neuroleptic should be raised rapidly unless there is some compelling emergency reason.
-- best wishes
Jay
Posted by Zyprexa on October 5, 2008, at 1:53:29
In reply to my friends - seroquel .... reverse psychosis, posted by Jeroen on October 3, 2008, at 11:48:34
Are you currently taking Seroquel? What doses, how many times a day?
Maybe you should stick to 200mg for a while and see if you slowly get better. Or you could take many doses through out the day, more often, smaller doses?
Posted by Jeroen on October 5, 2008, at 3:00:28
In reply to Re: my friends - seroquel .... reverse psychosis » Jeroen, posted by Zyprexa on October 5, 2008, at 1:53:29
no a high dose needs to change the damaged receptors by lamictal
Posted by Jeroen on October 5, 2008, at 6:04:22
In reply to Re: my friends - seroquel .... reverse psychosis, posted by Jeroen on October 5, 2008, at 3:00:28
this is sad, i will suffer hell, seizures, pannick attacks, falling down, just for a % of chance the psychosis goes away
Posted by Zyprexa on October 5, 2008, at 8:16:17
In reply to Re: my friends - seroquel .... reverse psychosis, posted by Jeroen on October 5, 2008, at 3:00:28
Are you taking the seroquel now?
Posted by Jeroen on October 5, 2008, at 10:13:44
In reply to Re: my friends - seroquel .... reverse psychosis, posted by Zyprexa on October 5, 2008, at 8:16:17
no, i need to ask this doctor
Posted by Phillipa on October 5, 2008, at 19:18:35
In reply to Re: my friends - seroquel .... reverse psychosis, posted by Jeroen on October 5, 2008, at 10:13:44
Jeroen well see what he says. Phillipa
Posted by Jeroen on October 7, 2008, at 13:34:58
In reply to Re: my friends - seroquel .... reverse psychosis » Jeroen, posted by Phillipa on October 5, 2008, at 19:18:35
i can only tolerate 100 mg twice a day otherwise i get seizures
Posted by yxibow on October 8, 2008, at 0:47:57
In reply to Re: my friends - seroquel .... reverse psychosis, posted by Jeroen on October 7, 2008, at 13:34:58
> i can only tolerate 100 mg twice a day otherwise i get seizures
>It's not a common effect but it can happen -- so why would you want to take 800mg of it ?
You may be fairly medication sensitive, it sounds like from the various medications you have tried.
I'm not sure if a benzodiazepine would be neuroprotective of this or not -- its typically not the best idea to take medications when a known seizure condition or effect happens, but then again sometimes Wellbutrin is taken along with clonazepam, at least for a while. The SR/XR versions have a far smaller chance of that effect.
Seizures are usually the most watched for effect in Clozaril which you went through a trial with.
-- best wishes-- Jay
Posted by Jeroen on April 4, 2009, at 13:11:58
In reply to Re: my friends - seroquel .... reverse psychosis » Jeroen, posted by yxibow on October 8, 2008, at 0:47:57
hi, a my pulse is 160 or something very high on seroquel dosages above 225 mg
do you think a beta blocker will stop this tachardia attack? i know nothing about beta blockersid like your expert word on this thanks, also thanks for your best wishes, need them!
Posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2009, at 22:58:46
In reply to to yxibow, posted by Jeroen on April 4, 2009, at 13:11:58
probably, but it could possibly give you very high blood pressure. i think quinindine is used? i really don't know what the best treatment is.
-d/r
Posted by Jeroen on April 5, 2009, at 3:50:11
In reply to high bp » Jeroen, posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2009, at 22:58:46
very high blood pressure no thanks!
sustained hbp will works on my organs
Posted by yxibow on April 5, 2009, at 15:17:12
In reply to high bp » Jeroen, posted by desolationrower on April 4, 2009, at 22:58:46
> probably, but it could possibly give you very high blood pressure. i think quinindine is used? i really don't know what the best treatment is.
>
> -d/rI don't see how, they create somewhat equilibrium situations, such as metoprolol.
Posted by desolationrower on April 5, 2009, at 20:06:41
In reply to Re: high bp » desolationrower, posted by yxibow on April 5, 2009, at 15:17:12
> > probably, but it could possibly give you very high blood pressure. i think quinindine is used? i really don't know what the best treatment is.
> >
> > -d/r
>
> I don't see how, they create somewhat equilibrium situations, such as metoprolol.not sure what you're suggesting, but i would think to not use beta-blockers for the same reason not to use them in stimulant overdose, you end up with unopposed alpha1 agonism. i'm assuming the tachycardia is from the alpha2 antagonism of the seroquel causing more (nor?)epinepherine release. but like i said, i'm not sure this would happen, but i'd want to be sure before trying.
-d/r
Posted by Vincent_QC on April 11, 2009, at 19:16:30
In reply to Re: high bp, posted by desolationrower on April 5, 2009, at 20:06:41
> >
> > I don't see how, they create somewhat equilibrium situations, such as metoprolol.
>
> not sure what you're suggesting, but i would think to not use beta-blockers for the same reason not to use them in stimulant overdose, you end up with unopposed alpha1 agonism. i'm assuming the tachycardia is from the alpha2 antagonism of the seroquel causing more (nor?)epinepherine release. but like i said, i'm not sure this would happen, but i'd want to be sure before trying.
>
> -d/rd/r...I take 50mg of Seroquel at bedtime... sometimes 75...sometimes only 25mg...Sometime nothing... That's was helping me sleeping for the first month but now it's not helping me a lot...
Since you seem to know a lot about the Seroquel, do you think the high blood pressure I have since january is really caused by my bad parnate experience, who leave my blood pressure always high (140/80-100 pulse rate, it's my normal now, before it was around 100-110/70)...or you think it can be cause by the small dose of 50mg of Seroquel I take before bedtime...
In the mean time, I wait the answer for the Marplan, you already know it, I will have it soon... Do you think it can be risky to be on the Marplan and to go to the Gym, I have 30 minutes of cardio exercices to do...and 45 of muscular exercices at least 4 times a week?
MAOI seem to have hard effect on my heart...Nardil cause too much hypotension orthostatic and Parnate do the opposite, even if I had severals orthostatic hypotension episodes, worse than the ones on the Nardil, at low dosages of Parnate....?
Alos another one question, I read everywhere and also my PDoc look in his book and the Marplan seem to be the MAOI with the lesser side-effects profile, especially for insomnia, on the heart and blood pressure... BUT I read somewhere else (don't remember the link sorry) that Marplan was more stimulating than the other MAOI's? Is it right ??? That's not the Parnate? I know that not everything on the Internet is good informations... but since everywhere else, even in psychiatric books, they claim it's the mildest MAOI to exist...The Pdoc was surprise it's even not avaible in the Canada, since the side-profile effects is lesser than the others avaible (Nardil and Parnate)...
Well it was my questions of the day...
Take care of you mister ;-)
Bye!
Vincent
Posted by desolationrower on April 14, 2009, at 2:34:18
In reply to Re: high bp » desolationrower, posted by Vincent_QC on April 11, 2009, at 19:16:30
> d/r...I take 50mg of Seroquel at bedtime... sometimes 75...sometimes only 25mg...Sometime nothing... That's was helping me sleeping for the first month but now it's not helping me a lot...
>
> Since you seem to know a lot about the Seroquel, do you think the high blood pressure I have since january is really caused by my bad parnate experience, who leave my blood pressure always high (140/80-100 pulse rate, it's my normal now, before it was around 100-110/70)...or you think it can be cause by the small dose of 50mg of Seroquel I take before bedtime...hm, well if it isn't helping, i'd stop taking it. it can't be helpful for weight. it seems odd it would be causing bp changes at that dose, but less odd than MAOI causing it weeks after you've quit it.
> In the mean time, I wait the answer for the Marplan, you already know it, I will have it soon... Do you think it can be risky to be on the Marplan and to go to the Gym, I have 30 minutes of cardio exercices to do...and 45 of muscular exercices at least 4 times a week?well, just don't hold your breath when you do squats, keep breathing. generally exercise will making your body better able to tolerate the drug
> MAOI seem to have hard effect on my heart...Nardil cause too much hypotension orthostatic and Parnate do the opposite, even if I had severals orthostatic hypotension episodes, worse than the ones on the Nardil, at low dosages of Parnate....?
>
> Alos another one question, I read everywhere and also my PDoc look in his book and the Marplan seem to be the MAOI with the lesser side-effects profile, especially for insomnia, on the heart and blood pressure... BUT I read somewhere else (don't remember the link sorry) that Marplan was more stimulating than the other MAOI's? Is it right ??? That's not the Parnate? I know that not everything on the Internet is good informations... but since everywhere else, even in psychiatric books, they claim it's the mildest MAOI to exist...The Pdoc was surprise it's even not avaible in the Canada, since the side-profile effects is lesser than the others avaible (Nardil and Parnate)...i really can't say, i've seen next to nothing on marplan.
> Well it was my questions of the day...
>
> Take care of you mister ;-)
>
> Bye!
>
> Vincent
>
>hey sounds like you're doing a little better, hope the marplan comes through.
-d/r
This is the end of the thread.
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