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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by streetsk8er794 on September 21, 2008, at 22:23:22
Ok. Here's the deal. Please bear with me.
I have a weird case of social phobia, and I will explain. I have these "phrases" that continually repeat themselves and change throughout the day. ex. be confident, be funny, walk head up, eye contact, be the leader, etc. etc. So, I started on 2 mg klonopin (1 mg morning, 1 mg night). It completely eliminates these phrases, but I still have a lot of social anxiety.
I've been on Nardil before, and it helped greatly for me to be more social, and have less general anxiety, but it didnt do much for my "phrases.
The klonopin after 6 months has sort of made me depressed, so I decided to wean down on it. Currently I'm at 1.5 mg per day, but the phrases are back. (I need 2 mg / day to keep the phrases at bay.
I'm starting Nardil next week, and I'm wondering whether I should go back to 2 mg klon, or keep weaning down. The reason its such a big deal, is because it takes me literally 1 month to wean down only .5 mg klon, and I dont feel like doing that again if its not neccessary.
Basically, what I'm asking is this:
Does Nardil literally make klonopin more potent?
And will 60 mg Nardil, and 2 mg klonopin (which already makes me quite lethargic), make me to sedated to function at work?
In the past, Nardil was quite activating for me; but you never know with these combos.
I'd like some input from some people who've combined these 2 meds to good effect for their social anxiety, and what doses they were at.
Thank you.
I started klonopin about 6 months ago at 2 mg (1 mg morning, 1 mg night).
Posted by Phillipa on September 21, 2008, at 23:07:31
In reply to Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome, posted by streetsk8er794 on September 21, 2008, at 22:23:22
Seriously google drug checker and add both meds and see what it says. Good luck. Phillipa could you be rapid cycling bipolar sounds like quick mood swings? Just thinking
Posted by jedi on September 22, 2008, at 2:05:34
In reply to Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome, posted by streetsk8er794 on September 21, 2008, at 22:23:22
Hi streetsk8er794,
I've been off the board for a few months now, but the combination of Nardil + clonazepam is the only combo of 45+ different combinations that worked for my atypical depression and social anxiety. I believe that they work synergistically to help with social phobia. I have withdrawn from Nardil now, slowly over six months, from 90 mg to 0mg. I cut the clonazepam in half from 2mg to 1mg, but some stressful things at work got me back to 2mg of clonazepam. Use Dr. Bob's Google search on Jedi to find out more of my opinions on Nardil with clonazepam.
Good Luck and be Well,
JediPS Hi everyone, I'm back on a very limited basis. I am really trying not to make my extended battle with depression the center of my life. Sorry if I dropped tha ball on anyone.
Posted by streetsk8er794 on September 22, 2008, at 8:53:44
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome » streetsk8er794, posted by jedi on September 22, 2008, at 2:05:34
Jedi:
Can you tell me what dose of klonopin, and what dose of Nardil you were on when you felt the best?
And also how many doses did you split them in to? ex. 1mg klon at 10 am, and 1 mg klon at 10 pm, etc. etc.
Posted by Phillipa on September 22, 2008, at 20:33:10
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome » streetsk8er794, posted by jedi on September 22, 2008, at 2:05:34
Jedi that's awesome and completly understand. Love Phillipa
Posted by streetsk8er794 on September 23, 2008, at 11:44:52
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome » jedi, posted by Phillipa on September 22, 2008, at 20:33:10
Does Nardil make klonopin more effective? Therebore being able to take less of the klon once i strat Nardil?
Posted by jedi on September 23, 2008, at 12:55:13
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome, posted by streetsk8er794 on September 23, 2008, at 11:44:52
> Does Nardil make klonopin more effective? Therebore being able to take less of the klon once i start Nardil?
I believe that because of its affect on GABA, clonazepam does act synergistically with Nardil to relieve social anxiety. Since anxiety is a large part of my depression, it seems to help there also. Some believe that benzodiazepines will make you more depressed. However, if anxiety worsens your depression, in my opinion, they help. I was able to reduce my clonazepam once Nardil kicked in.
Take care,
Jedi
Posted by streetsk8er794 on September 24, 2008, at 9:22:13
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome, posted by jedi on September 23, 2008, at 12:55:13
Yes Jedi, I completely agree with you that anxiety can make one more depressed.
However, at the dose of klonopin I was on ( 2 mg per day), I was too depressed.
I've now weaned myself down to 1.5 mg klon per day, and I can actually feel the depression getting better. ::: HOWEVER, I can also feel my social anxiety creeping back, and my OCD getting worse.
So, Jedi, that is what I hoped you were going to say. Because, in theory, I need 2 mg of klon a day to keep the anxiety away, but its too depressing.
I was planning to wean down to 1 mg of klon once the Nardil (60 mg) starts to kick in. I was just looking for some reassurance. Thank you once again Jedi.
BTW, what dose of each med were you one in complete remission?
And is my upward titration schedule (Nardil) of 15 mg per week till I'm at 60 mg (30 mg morning with klon, 30 mg night with klon) a good one?
Thank you so much everybody. I know I will feel better soon.
Posted by jedi on September 24, 2008, at 11:52:41
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome, posted by streetsk8er794 on September 24, 2008, at 9:22:13
Hi again,
Because I am a large man, I needed 90mg of Nardil to stop my major depression. When I first took Nardil, 11 years ago, I believe 60 or 75mg did the job. Watch out for the hypomania when Nardil first kicks in. Many people think this is the true antidepressant effect of the med. It is not. It is a side effect that will pass soon. Do not make any major life changes during this time; financial or personal.In my opinion, atypical depression lies somewhere on the bipolar spectrum. Medication induced hypomania can happen. If it does, don't let your doctor pull you off the drug. If you have severe depression, the hypomania will actually feel really good. Some on this board spend a lot of time chasing that feeling. That will not work either. The feeling of euphoria will soon pass(too bad), and the true antidepressant effect of the MAOI will be left.
My normal dosage was 90mg of Nardil, 1mg of clonazepam, and 25mg of Seroquel for sleep.
I still believe that Nardil is a wonder drug. For those of us with atypical depression, it is often the only med that works.
Nardil is a derivative of hydrazine. Marplan is also. Hydrazine is used to make rocket fuel and is also used to make the gas propellant in car air bags. Kind of weird but true.
Be well,
Jedi
Posted by streetsk8er794 on September 24, 2008, at 22:01:56
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome » streetsk8er794, posted by jedi on September 24, 2008, at 11:52:41
I was on Nardil in the past (about 2 years ago), and yes, when it 1st kicks in BOY does it feel GOOD!!! It was like, holy crap, I can be whatever I want to be, do whatever I want to do, and damn, I feel like I'm on extacy!
But, unfortunately, yes, that feeling does pass. I too was on 90 mg Nardil, but it was way too much. I felt zombified and felt like doing nothing. But, when I went back to 60 mg, I felt much less zombified, but my social anxiety came back.
This is why I'm thinking a low dose of both the klonopin (1 mg), and Nardil (60 mg), should be a perfect combo.
I am also ADHD, and am currently on 30 mg dexedrine a day (10 mg every 4 hours). It keeps my RAGE at bay, and makes me able to function at work.
I know that I will have to take only 15 mg per day when I start the Nardil (under very close supervision), but I feel almost no benefit at this dose.
Does Nardil potentiate stimulants as well?
Posted by jedi on September 24, 2008, at 23:05:52
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome, posted by streetsk8er794 on September 24, 2008, at 22:01:56
>Does Nardil potentiate stimulants as well?
I don't think there is a synergism between Nardil and stimulants. some people use stimulants as augmentation of Nardil, like you said, under very intense scrutiny. The danger is worse with Parnate but too much of a stimulant with Nardil or with a person sensitive to the drugs, can have very disastrous results. Be very, very careful.
Jedi
Posted by streetsk8er794 on September 25, 2008, at 9:10:46
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome » streetsk8er794, posted by jedi on September 24, 2008, at 23:05:52
Yes, I know. I will be taking nefidipine 10 mg capsules everywhere I go, just in case.
Thats very dissapointing that Nardil does not potentiate the effects of a stimulant. Stimulants almost help more for my social anxiety than Nardil does. But, they only last part of the day, and you cannot take them everyday.
But Nardil boosts dopamine. Wouldnt that make the stims stronger?
Posted by azalea on September 25, 2008, at 17:01:10
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome, posted by streetsk8er794 on September 25, 2008, at 9:10:46
The article below indicates that stimulants potentiate MAOIs, rather than the other way around. However, the authors note that this combination is NOT approved by the FDA and requires careful clinical monitoring by the prescribing psychiatrist.
CNS stimulant potentiation of monoamine oxidase inhibitors in treatment-refractory depression. Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology. 11(2):127-32, 1991 Apr.
Fawcett J. Kravitz HM. Zajecka JM. Schaff MR.> Yes, I know. I will be taking nefidipine 10 mg capsules everywhere I go, just in case.
>
> Thats very dissapointing that Nardil does not potentiate the effects of a stimulant. Stimulants almost help more for my social anxiety than Nardil does. But, they only last part of the day, and you cannot take them everyday.
>
> But Nardil boosts dopamine. Wouldnt that make the stims stronger?
Posted by jedi on September 25, 2008, at 18:51:09
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome, posted by streetsk8er794 on September 25, 2008, at 9:10:46
> Yes, I know. I will be taking nefidipine 10 mg capsules everywhere I go, just in case.
>
> Thats very dissapointing that Nardil does not potentiate the effects of a stimulant. Stimulants almost help more for my social anxiety than Nardil does. But, they only last part of the day, and you cannot take them everyday.
>
> But Nardil boosts dopamine. Wouldnt that make the stims stronger?Hi,
Be careful with the nifedipine. I spent a night in the hospital once because the tyramine reaction I had, went away faster than the BP lowering effect of the nifedipine. I would think about going with 5mg capsules, then you can add more if 5mg is not enough.I remember back to when that reaction happened, shortly after I started high dosage Nardil. I had a splitting headache and I knew I had screwed up. I came very close to taking another of the 10mg capsules before I got to the ER. That probably would have killed me. I believe a lot more people die from low blood pressure than high blood pressure.
If you are going to take MAOIs, I believe that you have to reach another level in educating yourself about the medication. So many MDs, pharmacists, and emergency personnel know so very little about the drugs. Many doctors will no longer prescribe nifedipine because of the problem I outlined above.
Take care,
JediPlease Read:
Nifedipine for blood pressure emergencies.
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/Nifedipine-for-emergencies.html
Posted by streetsk8er794 on September 25, 2008, at 22:31:31
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome, posted by jedi on September 25, 2008, at 18:51:09
I currently take 10 mg dex 3 times per day. I am afraid to take that much with Nardil, so I'm going down to 5 mg, 3 times per day. The klonopin I'm on block most of the effects of my stimulant, so when I wean down on the klon, the stims should work better.
I currently take 1.25 mg klon am, and 1.25 klon pm.
Is there any danger in just jumping down to 1 mg am, and 1 mg pm?
Posted by jedi on September 25, 2008, at 22:52:43
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome, posted by streetsk8er794 on September 25, 2008, at 22:31:31
> I currently take 10 mg dex 3 times per day. I am afraid to take that much with Nardil, so I'm going down to 5 mg, 3 times per day. The klonopin I'm on block most of the effects of my stimulant, so when I wean down on the klon, the stims should work better.
>
> I currently take 1.25 mg klon am, and 1.25 klon pm.
>
> Is there any danger in just jumping down to 1 mg am, and 1 mg pm?In my very layman opinion, judging on my own experience, dropping the clonazepam .5mg per day should not be a problem. Especially as the Nardil has a longer period to build up in your system. I've seen MDs take people down a lot faster than that, and wonder where in the "Hell" they are getting their information, probably off the top of their heads.
Jedi
Posted by streetsk8er794 on September 26, 2008, at 8:33:02
In reply to Re: Nardil + Klonopin= Awesome » streetsk8er794, posted by jedi on September 25, 2008, at 22:52:43
Thanks Jedi. You have been very helpful...
Off to the doc!
This is the end of the thread.
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