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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Four Feathers on September 14, 2008, at 18:24:27
I have been on Nardil now for about 7 weeks and have proven to be very sensitive to meds. I had been as high as 45mg which caused me to be very irritable and seemed to always be looking for something to complain about. As I have decreased the dosage I have seen very positive effects for about a 5-7 day time period with each dose decrease, and then a rather quick "crash" back to my previous state. I am now down to 7.5mg twice a day (taken at around 7:30am and then early afternoon).
I had understood Nardil to be a medication, while it has a short half-life in the literature, tended to be effective all day. Currently, when I take the 7.5mg in the morning I realize a calmness and increased clarity in everything from thought/logic to physical vision, I feel no anxiety or depression and much better. About 6 hours after taking the first dose I begin to feel something like an overstimulation, face feels oily, somewhat physically tired feeling, irritability, tight jaw, etc. I then have been taking the next 7.5 dosage and then I get calmness and a feeling of well-being that only lasts about an hour during that dose before I feel "wiped out". During the time that I feel "well" on the first and second dose of Nardil I have a good attitude, am happy, and any social phobia is gone. Is it typical for Nardil to produce such a "quick" effect only to fade and create an irritibility? I believe that it may be the gabaergic effects creating the calmness and increased ability to concentrate for me as clonazepam will also provide this for me. I don't take clonazepam long-term as the positive effects only last days before I find myself having to increase the dosage. Does Nardil affect gaba before, or for a shorter period of time, than it does other neurotransmitters? Has anyone experienced these types of effects from Nardil?
Posted by mav27 on September 15, 2008, at 8:35:57
In reply to Nardil Dosage Question, posted by Four Feathers on September 14, 2008, at 18:24:27
Its effect on gaba is short lasting and as you noticed is just after each dose... its the nardil itself effecting gaba and as you know it has a short half life. Nardil's AD effect by decreasing MAO can last up to a week or 2 which is why the AD effect can continue for a week or so after stopping nardil.. that's the effect you are meant to be getting to cure depression whilst that short gaba effect is more of an added bonus after you take a dose.
Posted by Four Feathers on September 15, 2008, at 9:50:39
In reply to Re: Nardil Dosage Question » Four Feathers, posted by mav27 on September 15, 2008, at 8:35:57
> Its effect on gaba is short lasting and as you noticed is just after each dose... its the nardil itself effecting gaba and as you know it has a short half life. Nardil's AD effect by decreasing MAO can last up to a week or 2 which is why the AD effect can continue for a week or so after stopping nardil.. that's the effect you are meant to be getting to cure depression whilst that short gaba effect is more of an added bonus after you take a dose.
Thanks Mav27 for the reply.
Given that I am feeling the best shortly after taking the Nardil, and experiencing the GABA effects from this, perhaps Nardil is not the best AD med for me. It definitely tends to make me feel overstimulated after the initial dose wears off (5-7 hours).
If I am looking for more of the augmentation of GABA, I understand that the Benzo's (particularly Clonazepam) may be the best for this? This has definitely provided calming and clarity to me in the past after taking it. Are there any other meds out there that compare to Clonazepam on the GABA front that may not lead to the rather quick development of a tolerance and dosage increase? I guess it is also possible that I have never gone high enough on the clonazepam (max dose I have taken was 1mg per day) to get to the balance that my brain truly needs.
Thank you in advance for any replies.
4F
Posted by Four Feathers on September 15, 2008, at 9:53:10
In reply to Re: Nardil Dosage Question » Four Feathers, posted by mav27 on September 15, 2008, at 8:35:57
I also wanted to ask if anyone knows of the relative potency of Nardil on GABA as compared to clonazepam or any other gabaergic medications?
Posted by mav27 on September 17, 2008, at 1:12:56
In reply to Re: Nardil Dosage Question, posted by Four Feathers on September 15, 2008, at 9:50:39
Unfortunatly i havn't found anything that works as well as that nardil does.. I couldn't tolerate the extra and side effects of nardil either. At the moment iam trying 2mg clonazepam with eplim.. it's looking promosing so far.. people have reported good effects with lycria and gabapentin as well.. all of those effect gaba.
Posted by blueboy on September 18, 2008, at 15:53:53
In reply to Nardil Dosage Question, posted by Four Feathers on September 14, 2008, at 18:24:27
I kept a log of Nardil use, and actually, I found that a dosage change took 10 days to fully take effect.
I would say you are changing dosage WAY too fast. I'd try 30mg per day and, if it is not effective after 10 days, go up by the smallest increment you can get. I was able to fine tune dosage by taking different amounts every day. In other words, if I wanted to cut down from 60 to 50, I would take 45 two days and then 60 the third day.
I found that it was a very "dirty" drug with a lot of side effects.
Posted by Four Feathers on September 18, 2008, at 16:52:24
In reply to Re: Nardil Dosage Question, posted by blueboy on September 18, 2008, at 15:53:53
Thanks blueboy.
I did attempt to give each dosage increase at least 10 days. On 45mg though I became very irritable and somewhat of an aggitated state. I have never been a person to go into rages over anything, but I feel as though I was close on that dosage. It was almost as though I was looking for something to set me off it that makes sense. I stayed here for about 5 days is all.
I spoke with my pdoc about this and he felt that Nardil was not going to be the best choice for me. I have now titrated down and have been completely off of this for only two days. I have noticed a negative change in my concentration, and I continue to remain unmotivated and apathetic which was the case on Nardil. If only I could have somehow held onto the effects that I received with dosage increases and decreases as I felt during those times like I remembered feeling years ago...enjoying life and able to take things in stride.
The Nardil did provide a calming to me comparable to clonazepam, however it did not provide me with the energy, motivation, and ability to get going in the morning. In the last couple of weeks though I did also get neck and back aches which I normally do not get and could not be traced to any physical activity. Yesterday I still had these to a minor extent and today they are completely gone. I believe they were related to the Nardil somehow as I am not an 'achy' person. Additionally, I also noticed that my skin was much more oily the higher the dosage.
Could a person realistically recognize improvements on a dosage as low as 7.5mg daily? Also, how long is normally considered adequate for a trial of Nardil? Is it likely to see additional effects beyond a few weeks or so at a given dose or is this considered an adequate trial? I hate to give up on this without an adequate trial as I have heard so many good things about Nardil. Of course, YMMV unfortunately!
Posted by azalea on September 20, 2008, at 21:05:41
In reply to Re: Nardil Dosage Question » blueboy, posted by Four Feathers on September 18, 2008, at 16:52:24
> Could a person realistically recognize improvements on a dosage as low as 7.5mg daily? Also, how long is normally considered adequate for a trial of Nardil?It's possible, although the recommended dose is 1mg per kg body weight per day. A person who weighs 150lbs, that's 68kg so your dose would be 4-5 of the 15mg Nardil tablets daily. A person who weighs 200lbs (90kg) would aim for 6 of the 15mg Nardil tablets daily. But you wouldn't want to start out at this high dosage. General rule is to increase by 15mg each week. An adequate trial is generally considered 3-4 weeks, although some individuals take longer to respond.
This is the end of the thread.
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