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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by NewQuestions on August 20, 2008, at 15:47:23
I was on zoloft for 8 years, and it worked great. Then, after 8 years, I started to experience new SE including confusion, mental and physical lethargy, muscle ache, and non-restful sleep. In other words, the SE's completely changed to the point I had to go off of it. So I tried Lexapro and experienced similar SE's. I tried Cymbalta but it made me more anxious. I tried Wellbutrin and the TCA's and became hyper. I tried prozac and after a month it made me SEVERELY DEPRESSED. Even the benzodiazepine's make me depressed in a weird numbing way. I tried to go back on zoloft and it made me more anxious!
My doctor says I have become hypersensitive to the drugs and that I am atypical. He says most people who experience problems after years on one drug can find another one.
1. Can anyone relate to this?
2. Anyone have a clue what is happening? Is there too much serotin build up in my body? Are my recepters depleted?WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME!
Posted by Chris O on August 20, 2008, at 16:39:39
In reply to Long-User of SSRI's--Side Effects Changed, posted by NewQuestions on August 20, 2008, at 15:47:23
NewQuestions:
That's distressing, to put it mildly. It is one of the concerns I have about my own long-term SSRI use, and why I have stopped and started so many times. My longest continuous use of SSRIs (Prozac, Celexa, Lexapro) has been at one year intervals. I did not experience any long term side effects as you've described. I am sure others on this board can give more helpful feedback. Let's hope you can find a new med that works, or at least that your new SEs decrease over time.
Hang in there!
Chris
Posted by Phillipa on August 20, 2008, at 17:47:05
In reply to Re: Long-User of SSRI's--Side Effects Changed » NewQuestions, posted by Chris O on August 20, 2008, at 16:39:39
I wonder if allergies can develop to ad's and other psch meds like antibiotics? Very distressing to say the least. I know I also many years ago could no longer tolerate the doses of meds I was taking. So taking small dose and basically I'm on my own as they do not help depression actually I am very anxious and take benzos and so far haven't had to raise doses actually cutting down as nothing works as it did before. Good luck and Any advise from your doc? Love Phillipa
Posted by desolationrower on August 20, 2008, at 18:25:00
In reply to Re: Long-User of SSRI's--Side Effects Changed, posted by Phillipa on August 20, 2008, at 17:47:05
Have you tried being off meds? It could be a new medical condition, not a SE of your meds.
My other thought, they might have made you bipolar, and you should switch to lithium or lamotragine.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 21, 2008, at 9:09:22
In reply to Long-User of SSRI's--Side Effects Changed, posted by NewQuestions on August 20, 2008, at 15:47:23
I am no expert, for sure, but here is my quick take. I'd say what is happening is part of a theory I picked up from "The Noonday Demon" compiled from some of the leading scientists in neurology and psychiatry. That is, our brains seem to somehow 'adapt' to some drugs. For some, it may just take 8 months, for other 8 years, or longer.
I think this is specially true for drugs that largely increase and decrease amounts of certain neurochemicals in the brain (i.e. serotonin, norepinephrine.) There are some drugs, like dopamine agonists Mirapex and Requip, that don't really change levels of the neurochemical dopamine, but somehow allow slightly more of it available at the receptor, but only in very small amounts. These drugs have actually been proven to be neuroprotective. I wish we could find drugs that act the same way on serotonin and norepinephrine.Jay
Posted by Chris O on August 21, 2008, at 12:48:10
In reply to Long-User of SSRI's--Side Effects Changed, posted by NewQuestions on August 20, 2008, at 15:47:23
I wanted to echo what Jay said about Andrew Solomon's experience, the writer of the Noonday Demon. That guy has been quite a cocktail of SSRIs for more than eight years. I don't know if he's updated his condition lately; however, another writer in this field, Lauren Slater (she wrote Prozac Diary, among others) was one of the first to take Prozac--has. She took Prozac for about 20 years, I believe, and was up to 120mg a day when it pooped out. I don't think her long term side effect profile was the same as yours. I think the Prozac just stopped working. The last time I heard, Slater was going the opioid-narcotic route, arguing that it may be a valid form of treatment for some people.
Again, hope you figure out what's going on, or find another med to get you feeling good again.
Chris
Posted by NewQuestions on August 26, 2008, at 9:40:29
I was on zoloft for 8 years, and it worked great. Then, after 8 years, I started to experience new SEs including confusion, mental and physical lethargy, muscle ache, and non-restful sleep. In other words, the SE's completely changed to the point I had to go off of it. So I tried Lexapro and experienced similar SE's. I tried Cymbalta but it made me more anxious. I tried Wellbutrin and the TCA's and became hyper. I tried prozac and after a month it made me SEVERELY DEPRESSED. Even the benzodiazepine's make me depressed in a weird numbing way. I tried to go back on zoloft and it made me more anxious! A very low dose of Effexor helped but made me jittery. Parnate makes me agitated.
1. Can anyone relate to this?
2. Anyone have a clue what is happening? Is there too much serotin build up in my body? Are my recepters depleted? Is it adrenalin related?HELP!
Posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2008, at 10:44:27
In reply to Hey SSRI Experts--What is happening to me?, posted by NewQuestions on August 26, 2008, at 9:40:29
Did you ask this in the past sounds familiar is all is it a paradoxical reaction to meds or tolerance? Phillipa
Posted by ricker on August 26, 2008, at 18:39:46
In reply to Hey SSRI Experts--What is happening to me?, posted by NewQuestions on August 26, 2008, at 9:40:29
Yes, I would guess up to 90% or more, experience this. I don't believe these are "side-effects" but, rather the dreaded poop-out.
I've been on ad's for approx. 21 years, zoloft for approx. the last 9 years with a/d trials mixed in as well. I believe people will give another a/d a trial as their current med begins to feel "less" helpful.
What I'm beginning to find is there is some truth in the saying - medication vacation?
Seems everytime I return to my old faithful - zoloft... due to unsuccessful trials with other med's, the zoloft appears to provide more therapuetic properties?
This may be because I've just finished an uncomfortable trial with another med and am thankful to just get that "old" feeling back aka placebo, or, I am genuinely experiencing more positive results?
Whatever the case, I believe what you are describing is quite common for many, which is unfortunate, but very much a reality with longterm use.
Having said that, I can't ignore the positive resuts I gain when temporarily switching from my "staple" a/d, and then returning. It appears as though I am able to regain it's theraputic properties and, more importantly, an additional "bang for my buck" so to speak.
This on-going pattern will now be my main focus with future med trials. Just because the drug companies or doctors direct us to take the meds as prescribed does not mean it will be the most beneficial.
I am convinced zoloft is a requirement for my well-being, but not the way I have been taking it. I truly believe there are timing patterns that are being overlooked when it comes to chemical treatment?
Temporarily interupting the brains firing of these chemicals.... for 1 day, week or month may have more to do with long-term success than finding that "one" permanent drug.
Sure, most people probably enjoy eating juicy barbecued steaks, but every now and then a cheeseburger can be quite tasty??
Sorry for turning this into a "my theory" post, it's something that I had to express.
Regards, Rick
Posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2008, at 20:13:45
In reply to Re: Hey SSRI Experts--What is happening to me? » NewQuestions, posted by ricker on August 26, 2008, at 18:39:46
Sounds the same as the ridiculously low dose of luvox I'm on. So you feel skipping a day might do something? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by ricker on August 26, 2008, at 21:58:50
In reply to Re: Hey SSRI Experts--What is happening to me? » ricker, posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2008, at 20:13:45
> Sounds the same as the ridiculously low dose of luvox I'm on. So you feel skipping a day might do something? Thanks Phillipa
Hi Phillipa,
No, I don't believe it is as simple as missing a dose, for me anyway.
With future experimentation, I will try and apply logical...simplistic methods.
From all the available data that is available through networking, advances in sciences, pharmacology etc, one thing remains constant, everyone reacts to medicine with a predisposed genetic response.
For the life of me, I can't understand why or how 10 people, administered the identical drug, may have 10 different responses. I'm quite certain this mystery holds true for scientists as well.
I also believe there is a specific drug that is capable of treating a specific individual. This drug should be refered to as the patients "primary" medication.
The primary medication can, if administered in a dynamic way, provide complete therapeutic response.
I truly believe that the human mind can not be treated, or even looked upon in the same manner as any other part of human anatomy.
The brain is never static, for our constant thought pattern in itself, produces a dynamic reaction that requires a method of treatment capable of reacting to this dynamic inertia.
We know the how's and why's of every organ in our body. We know these organs have a primary function which in a healthy human will remain static throughout a lifetime. If need be, we can administer drugs in a robotic manner as there is scientific data to justify such treatment... we "know" how a healthy organ should function 1, 10 or 40 years from now.
Every second of our life, the brain is constantly changing, there is know set "how and why" with the brain... at least when it comes to our thoughts/feelings.
What would life be like with a brain that not only regulated our primary life support function, but regulated our ability to think, we would be robots!
So why should we expect any given drug to respond to our ever changing thoughts? This may seem off the wall to many of you, but I have no other theory.
If I am to treat my mind, I must respect it's ability to never be scientifically understood. I believe the way in which we administer medication is the key to successful treatment.
I do not know what I will be thinking 5 seconds from now, why should I expect the drugs to have a clear treatment path?? It's not a fair or practical expectation!
This may sound confusing or totally off the wall, but it's just my theory. If I figure out the secret, I'll be sure to share.
Regards, Rick
Posted by Racer on August 28, 2008, at 15:22:08
In reply to Hey SSRI Experts--What is happening to me?, posted by NewQuestions on August 26, 2008, at 9:40:29
Well, my first guess is that you haven't gotten through the adjustment phase effects of these other medications, and that one of them is likely to be helpful for you if you can get to a therapeutic dose and stay there for a while. The agitation often goes away after a month or two.
And I agree with Ricker, that what happened sounds like tachyphalaxis. (I love my dorky doctor -- he prefers the proper name for "poop-out.") No one knows why medications seem to lose their effectiveness over time. For many people, switching to a related drug will be effective, although it, too, is likely to poop out after a time. The good news is that many people can cycle through a small number of drugs successfully. That is, even though one drug has pooped out, taking it again some time later -- after its replacement has pooped out -- will once more be successful.
Apparently the MAOIs virtually never poop out, if you're willing to go that route.
Good luck.
Posted by butternut on August 29, 2008, at 15:45:07
In reply to Hey SSRI Experts--What is happening to me?, posted by NewQuestions on August 26, 2008, at 9:40:29
Hi,
I had a great response to Zoloft for several years. I was incredibly productive at work, got over my long-term social anxiety problems, and generally content with life. (Possibly hypomania, but my husband maintains I appeared completely normal and not unusually motivated.)Then I started having side effects--trouble finding words, forgetfulness, distractability, difficulty not interrupting people while in coversation. Then over more time, I started to feel flat and kind of unmotivated--the poop-out. I went off the drug and began what would prove to be a long term (about 7 years now) depression. During this depression, I went back on the drug and found it reduced some of the "crisis" feelings, but still I was depressed, flat, steadily gaining weight, etc, PLUS I started having side effects such as nonstop jaw clenching and migraines. On withdrawl, I had some horrible sleep paralysis episodes and leg cramps, which I didn't get during the first withdrawal, and believe me, I went off SLOWLY.
I've tried Lexapro (for about a year) and that just makes me not care that I'm depressed, if that makes sense. I just eat and sleep, socially withdrawal, and don't really care about anything in my life. Off the SSRIs, I at least care that I am not behaving in a healthy way.
So, you're not alone. I think that my reaction could be due to the fact that I'm actually bipolar, not just depressed. My highs are just unpleasant periods of anxiety or irritability, so I wasn't noticing them. When the Zoloft was working, I did not have those unpleasant periods: i was very balanced mood-wise. Not sure why it didn't kick me into mania.
Perhaps a different drug family altogether would be a good approach for you. I'm currently pregnant and holding it together, but I am really counting the days till I can try something new. My gut tells me the SSRIs are not good for me anymore. I'm going with a mood stabilizer, and if that does not do it, I will try adding emsam or some other MAOI. I didn't want to try them b/c of the dietary issues, but I realize now that life is too short. Best to try what I can to be mentally healthy asap.
Good luck to you! Sorry for the long post!
Posted by Racer on August 30, 2008, at 1:20:35
In reply to Re: Hey SSRI Experts--What is happening to me?, posted by butternut on August 29, 2008, at 15:45:07
>
> Then over more time, I started to feel flat and kind of unmotivated--the poop-out.Actually, that can be a little confusing -- "poop out" can mean either of two things: the apathy that SRIs can cause some people, or tachyphylaxis, where the drugs stop working. The flat and unmotivated could be either one, of course...
And I think my reaction to Lexapro was similar to yours -- what I remember most was sitting in the marriage counselor's office, wanting to say something, but finding it was too much trouble to bother. I didn't even raise my head that session, just -- continued oxygen exchange and other metabolic functions. The only time I would eat was if the food was put in front of my mouth, and even then it wasn't worth the effort after a couple of bites. Funny thing -- I didn't stick it out all that long...
This is the end of the thread.
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