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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jeroen on August 14, 2008, at 4:35:39
i feel sick and in community say "retarded person"
its been 7 years now since i follow therapy and the only worked was Seroquel for 2 months in the summer of 2004, i was hoping this would be a lifesaver and a lifeCHANGER
i am surprized that i dont respond to Clozapine like many other people i have seen cured, in fact its making me worse, not even a hardcore drug can cure my illness.
thanks for reading
Posted by Phillipa on August 14, 2008, at 10:30:39
In reply to i feel retarded, sick, posted by Jeroen on August 14, 2008, at 4:35:39
Jereon I'm sorry you feel so bad. Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on August 14, 2008, at 20:15:01
In reply to i feel retarded, sick, posted by Jeroen on August 14, 2008, at 4:35:39
Hey, I was just reading a case study where cops picked up and hospitalized an apparently psychotic person. He was in the hospital a long time failing one antipsychotic after another. Even Clozapine didn't help. That's when I thought of you. Anyway, not sure why, but they decided to add Memantine to an antipsychotic. The person improved remarkably.
You might consider asking your doctors for Seroquel again, except this time add Memantine to it, in the 20mg to 40mg range. I would guess you could do a rather fast crossover from what you are on now without much problem. If nothing else, it is something that has worked for someone else similar to you, and it is a whole lot safer than what you are on now. Nothing to lose and everything to gain, right? Might as well.
Memantine. Ask for it.
Posted by yxibow on August 15, 2008, at 1:48:29
In reply to Re: i feel retarded, sick, posted by bleauberry on August 14, 2008, at 20:15:01
> Hey, I was just reading a case study where cops picked up and hospitalized an apparently psychotic person. He was in the hospital a long time failing one antipsychotic after another. Even Clozapine didn't help. That's when I thought of you. Anyway, not sure why, but they decided to add Memantine to an antipsychotic. The person improved remarkably.
>
> You might consider asking your doctors for Seroquel again, except this time add Memantine to it, in the 20mg to 40mg range. I would guess you could do a rather fast crossover from what you are on now without much problem. If nothing else, it is something that has worked for someone else similar to you, and it is a whole lot safer than what you are on now. Nothing to lose and everything to gain, right? Might as well.
>
> Memantine. Ask for it.
remember -- that's a case study, as in 1 person.I can't think of adding more than the recommended 20mg of Namenda to a drug regime, but then again I suppose it worked for this person.
As before I said, one really has to stay on an agent even if it doesn't seem like it is working initially -- haphazardly jumping from one agent to another may actually make it harder to fight things, but that's just a theoretical projection.
And while we all know you're miserable, telling yourself that you're "retarded" isn't going to help your psychological esteem. Also its kind of down putting to those who are mentally challenged, but that's another story.
-- Jay
Posted by Jeroen on August 15, 2008, at 2:59:35
In reply to Re: i feel retarded, sick » bleauberry, posted by yxibow on August 15, 2008, at 1:48:29
i just feel bad for the sick, small or heavy
even before i went sick that was my additudeive been talking yesterday to a girl 25 year old with bone cancer
not good right?
Posted by JDx on August 15, 2008, at 10:41:46
In reply to i feel retarded, sick, posted by Jeroen on August 14, 2008, at 4:35:39
> i feel sick and in community say "retarded person"
>
> its been 7 years now since i follow therapy and the only worked was Seroquel for 2 months in the summer of 2004, i was hoping this would be a lifesaver and a lifeCHANGER
>
> i am surprized that i dont respond to Clozapine like many other people i have seen cured, in fact its making me worse, not even a hardcore drug can cure my illness.
>
>Do you have schizophrenia? Which drugs have you tried?
I have a simple schizophrenia , only negative and cognitive problems, and I use Glycine,Ritalin,omega3,5-htp for cognitve problems
mybe they will help you?
Posted by Jeroen on August 15, 2008, at 12:21:30
In reply to Re: i feel retarded, sick, posted by JDx on August 15, 2008, at 10:41:46
yes paranoid schizophrenia
its not the first time people laughing with me for real
somethimes i wish i was dead :(
Posted by JDx on August 15, 2008, at 12:25:00
In reply to Re: i feel retarded, sick, posted by Jeroen on August 15, 2008, at 12:21:30
> yes paranoid schizophrenia
>
> its not the first time people laughing with me for real
>
> somethimes i wish i was dead :(Which drugs have you tried? On what drugs are you now?
Posted by Jeroen on August 15, 2008, at 12:27:53
In reply to Re: i feel retarded, sick, posted by JDx on August 15, 2008, at 12:25:00
Zyprexa, Clozapine (big failure), Seroquel, Solian
now taking Sulpiride, Abilify 10 mg (too much) feel energized
Posted by JDx on August 15, 2008, at 12:41:45
In reply to Re: i feel, sick, posted by Jeroen on August 15, 2008, at 12:27:53
> Zyprexa, Clozapine (big failure), Seroquel, Solian
>
> now taking Sulpiride, Abilify 10 mg (too much) feel energizedI read once a post that said that like other antipsychotics (in exception of solian ) , Abilify can cause Suicidal ideation , meaning you start thinking about killing yourself all the time and how life is meaning less and that there is no hope in the future..
It happens to me with risperdal and with serqual , and thats why I can't take them unless as I am trying this days - taking them with SSRI. My short trial with comboing SSRI and risperdal was good - I am no longer thinking of killing myself. Mybe you should try it .What are the reasons you stopped the other Antipsychotics?
Posted by bleauberry on August 15, 2008, at 19:28:06
In reply to Re: i feel retarded, sick » bleauberry, posted by yxibow on August 15, 2008, at 1:48:29
>
> remember -- that's a case study, as in 1 person.True. Keep in mind, this poor sufferer is long past improving on anything studied in clinical trials. Clozapine is about as good as it gets. The suffering is desperate, not to be taken lightly. This is not an ordinary case.
> I can't think of adding more than the recommended 20mg of Namenda to a drug regime, but then again I suppose it worked for this person.
There is no recommended dose or purpose of Memantine for anything other than Alzheimers. But 40mg proved equal to Lexapro for depression. A couple people right here found it a miracle. 20mg has been shown clinically to be rather useless. So for a tough case that has failed heavy hitting firstline meds, case studies become extremely important to focus on.
>
> As before I said, one really has to stay on an agent even if it doesn't seem like it is working initially -- haphazardly jumping from one agent to another may actually make it harder to fight things, but that's just a theoretical projection.With meds like Clozapine, they work fairly rapid if they are to work. Same with Solian or Zyprexa. Heck, they put the stuff in your veins and it works in minutes or hours. No need to wait weeks or months. You are thinking of other meds that do indeed take longer time. Jereon did not wait forever for Seroquel to work and didn't feel like crap waiting for it to do so.
But when these things don't work, well, you gotta look elsewhere. Something else is going on. Excess glutamate activity? Excess noradrenergic activity? It sure aint excess dopamine activity. Case studies are posted so other doctors having a rough go can see what has worked for other doctors.
>
> And while we all know you're miserable, telling yourself that you're "retarded" isn't going to help your psychological esteem. Also its kind of down putting to those who are mentally challenged, but that's another story.
>
> -- JayIn the current situation, the above kind of rationalization is something to dream of and hope for, but not readily achievable in the current state of mind. It fails to understand the seriousness of the illness at this very point in time. I have no doubt Jereon's self esteem would be just fine if something worked as well as Seroquel once did. Agreed though, we should all zip our mouths when we are about to speak negative of ourselves. Satan loves it. Don't give him the pleasure of hearing it.
Posted by Jeroen on August 15, 2008, at 22:39:03
In reply to Re: i feel retarded, sick » yxibow, posted by bleauberry on August 15, 2008, at 19:28:06
thanks
Posted by yxibow on August 16, 2008, at 1:23:36
In reply to Re: i feel retarded, sick » yxibow, posted by bleauberry on August 15, 2008, at 19:28:06
> >
> > remember -- that's a case study, as in 1 person.
>
> True. Keep in mind, this poor sufferer is long past improving on anything studied in clinical trials. Clozapine is about as good as it gets. The suffering is desperate, not to be taken lightly. This is not an ordinary case.
>
> > I can't think of adding more than the recommended 20mg of Namenda to a drug regime, but then again I suppose it worked for this person.
>
> There is no recommended dose or purpose of Memantine for anything other than Alzheimers. But 40mg proved equal to Lexapro for depression. A couple people right here found it a miracle. 20mg has been shown clinically to be rather useless. So for a tough case that has failed heavy hitting firstline meds, case studies become extremely important to focus on.
>
> >
> > As before I said, one really has to stay on an agent even if it doesn't seem like it is working initially -- haphazardly jumping from one agent to another may actually make it harder to fight things, but that's just a theoretical projection.
>
> With meds like Clozapine, they work fairly rapid if they are to work. Same with Solian or Zyprexa. Heck, they put the stuff in your veins and it works in minutes or hours. No need to wait weeks or months. You are thinking of other meds that do indeed take longer time. Jereon did not wait forever for Seroquel to work and didn't feel like crap waiting for it to do so.
>
> But when these things don't work, well, you gotta look elsewhere. Something else is going on. Excess glutamate activity? Excess noradrenergic activity? It sure aint excess dopamine activity. Case studies are posted so other doctors having a rough go can see what has worked for other doctors.
>
>
> >
> > And while we all know you're miserable, telling yourself that you're "retarded" isn't going to help your psychological esteem. Also its kind of down putting to those who are mentally challenged, but that's another story.
> >
> > -- Jay
>
> In the current situation, the above kind of rationalization is something to dream of and hope for, but not readily achievable in the current state of mind. It fails to understand the seriousness of the illness at this very point in time. I have no doubt Jereon's self esteem would be just fine if something worked as well as Seroquel once did. Agreed though, we should all zip our mouths when we are about to speak negative of ourselves. Satan loves it. Don't give him the pleasure of hearing it.
>
>I quite know that this isn't an "ordinary case" -- we have heard about many drug trials that Jeroen has gone through.
Schizophreniform disorders cost more than $2 billion to the system in the US each year and that's an old figure. So I don't take them or the people who are suffering from them lightly.
As for the comment on Abilify's suicidal properties, I'm not sure. Can you balance that against the overwhelmingly high suicide rate among schizophrenics compared to other equally devastating biochemical imbalance disorders? What is worst and when is the benefit worse than any possible outcome.
As Jeroen himself said he felt pity towards people with life affecting and life limiting disorders.
Untreated schizophreniform -- especially ones with positive symptoms, I believe, as Jeroen's may have (paranoia) -- disorders can limit one's feelings, create limitations and ultimately can, I'm not going to go there, but you can get the gist.
Please don't harm yourself, there are enough people here who you must babble to. I know I don't know you enough but I do know you're suffering.
Yes, as to your other theories there could be many things contributing, and alternative and complementary medicine may also have thoughts but a tough disorder sometimes requires fairly powerful medications --- it can seem punitive, I don't like the panoply of medications I take, including Seroquel -- and by the way I do take Memantine as a trial for my cognitive problems caused by Valium and psychological issues (I can't say its harming but I dont know what its doing yet).
So, okay I'm doing a bit of transference --- I think we all do when we examine other people's disorders.
But what I still say, even through the muck and the side effects, is sticking to a set of medications for long enough will prove better than going through drug trials that last weeks, discounting of course for unwanted life threatening reactions.
This all is not to be punitive and I think I am done talking about Jeroen in the third person because he is a contributor and a human being like all of us and we shouldn't talk about people in this manner.
Jeroen -- I hear you and I think we all hear you.
There are limitations in my life -- I am nearing ages in my 30s I don't like and I should be productive like my acquaintances --- when I see (yes, I'm gay, but its irrelevant) college age students out with their girlfriends and all, I feel pity for myself because I don't have the life that surrounds me.
But diving into pity only increases depression and decompensation (diminished mental status) -- its tough lifting yourself out of things, I still say, even for schizophrenia, there are psychological issues going on, I can tell -- because you want to be the person you imagine in your dreams.
I'm not being Pollyanna -- but why not build upon those dreams by sticking to a set of medications, leaving that in the background and get some therapeutic (psychological) help, which I think is lacking in a lot of treatment plans. I don't know, maybe I'm doing transference again.
The activation you're feeling from Abilify might be akathisia, but I can't say -- I'm sure you've felt it through other drug trials so only you would know. Its somewhat potent on the scale of atypicals, depending on the person of course.
-- best wishesJay
Posted by Jeroen on August 16, 2008, at 1:42:41
In reply to Re: i feel retarded, sick, posted by yxibow on August 16, 2008, at 1:23:36
thanks
Posted by 10derHeart on August 16, 2008, at 2:02:09
In reply to Re: i feel retarded, sick » yxibow, posted by bleauberry on August 15, 2008, at 19:28:06
>Agreed though, we should all zip our mouths when we are about to speak negative of ourselves. Satan loves it. Don't give him the pleasure of hearing it.
Amen! ...and thanks for reminding me, too :-)
This was such a thoughtful and compassionate post. So many people here go out of their way to try to give concrete ideas re: medications, and if they don't have that, to encourage Jeroen and let him know they care. It's what makes Babble so special to me.
Jeroen, you're not retarded, at least not in the technical or medical sense, I wouldn't think. But that word, you know, literally only means slowed down, and who wouldn't feel like that having gone through all you have? Being ill and going through the dugs and the stress of the illness itself AND the effects of many drugs - of course you feel slowed down and sick. I don't post to your threads because I'm not on this board much, and also, I don't feel I have anything useful to offer you. But I always read your posts and I'm *always* saying a prayer for your healing just as I'm reading. It's all I know to do, and it surely can't hurt.
Please keep posting when you can and remember the good people here pulling for you. A hug if you don't mind (Jeroen).
--10derHeart
Posted by Jeroen on August 16, 2008, at 2:04:28
In reply to Re: i feel retarded, sick, posted by 10derHeart on August 16, 2008, at 2:02:09
*HUG* BACK
Posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2008, at 20:09:05
In reply to 10derHeart, posted by Jeroen on August 16, 2008, at 2:04:28
Jeroen we're all pulling for you. You will get the right combo. Are you still in hospital or now home. I will write you later. Love Phillipa
Posted by Jeroen on August 17, 2008, at 1:36:02
In reply to Re: 10derHeart » Jeroen, posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2008, at 20:09:05
hospital philippa :(
thanks
Posted by Phillipa on August 17, 2008, at 19:54:49
In reply to Re: 10derHeart, posted by Jeroen on August 17, 2008, at 1:36:02
Jeroen so if in hospital you're being monitored well by your pdoc? Love Phillipa
Posted by Jeroen on August 18, 2008, at 2:18:33
In reply to Re: So if in Hospital » Jeroen, posted by Phillipa on August 17, 2008, at 19:54:49
i guess so if you get psychotic theyll put you in isolation room
Posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2008, at 20:04:53
In reply to Re: So if in Hospital, posted by Jeroen on August 18, 2008, at 2:18:33
Does your pdoc think you are psychotic now as sounds like he doesn't so maybe the meds are working for you. Love Phillipa
Posted by Jeroen on August 19, 2008, at 0:59:13
In reply to Re: So if in Hospital » Jeroen, posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2008, at 20:04:53
no im not psychotic due to the abilify god thanks
Posted by yxibow on August 19, 2008, at 14:34:13
In reply to Re: So if in Hospital, posted by Jeroen on August 18, 2008, at 2:18:33
> i guess so if you get psychotic theyll put you in isolation room
That's really gone away in modern hospitals here in favor of other more humane methods, I'm sorry to hear that
This is the end of the thread.
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