![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by robbieboy74 on August 14, 2008, at 0:19:58
So I am on Suboxone for addiction, and my doctor wants to try supplementing it with Darvon since I am having BAD additional cravings recently. I took a Darvon and it worked well, but now I am afraid to take a Suboxone because I feel it will precipitate withdrawal. What do you guys think?
Also, would using Darvon alone instead of methadone to maintain being clean be a bad idea? Is it true Darvon is very toxic? It would be easier my doc says because he can write me a script and it would cost less. and it if didn't work I could always go to methadone.Thanks so much.
Posted by bulldog2 on August 14, 2008, at 8:43:13
In reply to Being on Buprenorphine, then taking Darvon then..., posted by robbieboy74 on August 14, 2008, at 0:19:58
> So I am on Suboxone for addiction, and my doctor wants to try supplementing it with Darvon since I am having BAD additional cravings recently. I took a Darvon and it worked well, but now I am afraid to take a Suboxone because I feel it will precipitate withdrawal. What do you guys think?
>
>
> Also, would using Darvon alone instead of methadone to maintain being clean be a bad idea? Is it true Darvon is very toxic? It would be easier my doc says because he can write me a script and it would cost less. and it if didn't work I could always go to methadone.
>
> Thanks so much.Darvon is short acting and can also be very addictive.
Posted by Phillipa on August 14, 2008, at 10:23:49
In reply to Re: Being on Buprenorphine, then taking Darvon then..., posted by bulldog2 on August 14, 2008, at 8:43:13
I would think it would defeat the purpose of methadone but only you doc know you're personal history. Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on August 14, 2008, at 11:01:43
In reply to Being on Buprenorphine, then taking Darvon then..., posted by robbieboy74 on August 14, 2008, at 0:19:58
My pdoc is considering giving me Suboxone for depression and codeine addiction, so I'm interested if it had any effect on your mood? I too am worried about Suboxone causing withdrawal effects. I don't think it would be much of a problem if you've only taken one dose though. Darvon is a very weak opiate, so I'm surprised it would satisfy cravings that Suboxone wouldn't. What dose did he prescribe? Bupe has one of the highest binding affinities among opiates, so other opiates aren't supposed to have much effect if you take them together.
>Also, would using Darvon alone instead of methadone to maintain being clean be a bad idea?
Maybe Darvon has less stigma than methadone? It might be easier to get off. I don't know. I've used OTC codeine containing products for years as a 'maintenance' therapy, and I think they might acutally be stronger than Darvon, depending on the preparation. I haven't had many problems besides stomach irritation from the ibuprofen contained in one of them, and tolerance.
>Is it true Darvon is very toxic?
In overdose it seems to be more toxic than other opiates. I don't think it's a problem at prescribed doses. Darvon/Distalgesic seems to have been a popular choice for suicides for a long time.
Do you find Suboxone causes any euphoria? I'm thinking that if Darvon satisfies cravings more than Suboxone it might not be what I'm looking for.
Q
Posted by robbieboy74 on August 14, 2008, at 14:29:43
In reply to Re: Being on Buprenorphine, then taking Darvon the, posted by Quintal on August 14, 2008, at 11:01:43
> My pdoc is considering giving me Suboxone for depression and codeine addiction, so I'm interested if it had any effect on your mood? I too am worried about Suboxone causing withdrawal effects. I don't think it would be much of a problem if you've only taken one dose though. Darvon is a very weak opiate, so I'm surprised it would satisfy cravings that Suboxone wouldn't. What dose did he prescribe? Bupe has one of the highest binding affinities among opiates, so other opiates aren't supposed to have much effect if you take them together.
>
> >Also, would using Darvon alone instead of methadone to maintain being clean be a bad idea?
>
> Maybe Darvon has less stigma than methadone? It might be easier to get off. I don't know. I've used OTC codeine containing products for years as a 'maintenance' therapy, and I think they might acutally be stronger than Darvon, depending on the preparation. I haven't had many problems besides stomach irritation from the ibuprofen contained in one of them, and tolerance.
>
> >Is it true Darvon is very toxic?
>
> In overdose it seems to be more toxic than other opiates. I don't think it's a problem at prescribed doses. Darvon/Distalgesic seems to have been a popular choice for suicides for a long time.
>
> Do you find Suboxone causes any euphoria? I'm thinking that if Darvon satisfies cravings more than Suboxone it might not be what I'm looking for.
>
> Q
That's weird. I typed like an hour long response to you and it didn't go up for some reason......Darvon + Suboxone is working! I think suboxone chemically alters your brain so it becomes less effective over time. The darvon supplements it well.
In the beginning before I got on suboxone I was suicidally depressed after quitting dope. Suboxone saved my mood, my addiction cravings, and everything. It's a miracle at least in the beginning.
While darvon is weak in terms of relieving PAIN, it's strong in terms of satisfying cravings, adding euphoria. I think it has to do with the receptors it binds to, such as kappa mu and stuff. It's sort of different than the others.
Should I go on methadone? Will this Darvon + sub precip withdrawal you think? Thanks guys.
Posted by Dade on August 21, 2008, at 19:30:29
In reply to Re: Being on Buprenorphine, then taking Darvon the, posted by Quintal on August 14, 2008, at 11:01:43
> My pdoc is considering giving me Suboxone for depression and codeine addiction, so I'm interested if it had any effect on your mood? I too am worried about Suboxone causing withdrawal effects. I don't think it would be much of a problem if you've only taken one dose though. Darvon is a very weak opiate, so I'm surprised it would satisfy cravings that Suboxone wouldn't. What dose did he prescribe? Bupe has one of the highest binding affinities among opiates, so other opiates aren't supposed to have much effect if you take them together.
>
> >Also, would using Darvon alone instead of methadone to maintain being clean be a bad idea?
>
> Maybe Darvon has less stigma than methadone? It might be easier to get off. I don't know. I've used OTC codeine containing products for years as a 'maintenance' therapy, and I think they might acutally be stronger than Darvon, depending on the preparation. I haven't had many problems besides stomach irritation from the ibuprofen contained in one of them, and tolerance.
Hi Q,I guess you used 'nurofen plus'? I wonder what dose? i too have found Codeine helpfull and used to take it when it was splitable. Any feedback helpfull?.
Posted by Quintal on August 21, 2008, at 20:08:22
In reply to Re: Being on Buprenorphine, then taking Darvon the » Quintal, posted by Dade on August 21, 2008, at 19:30:29
Yes, I take Nurofen Plus and Paramol. I used to take two of each every 4-6 hours, but now I'm down to about two doses a day when I take it. I think it's actually making some of my problems worse now I've built up tolerance.
About the splittable thing. I heard it used to come as two halves stuck together with codeine and ibuprofen in a different side. I wish it still came like that! I was told the manufacturer changed it due to abuse potential, but really would it have been so bad to just leave it as it was? I don't think people were dying or being poisoned in large numbers.
Q
Posted by robbieboy74 on August 21, 2008, at 20:15:22
In reply to Re: Being on Buprenorphine, then taking Darvon the » Dade, posted by Quintal on August 21, 2008, at 20:08:22
this has NOTHING to do with my question that never even got answered a$$holes
Posted by Deputy Racer on August 21, 2008, at 20:35:32
In reply to Re: Being on Buprenorphine, then taking Darvon the, posted by robbieboy74 on August 21, 2008, at 20:15:22
> this has NOTHING to do with my question that never even got answered a$$holes
Please don't post anything which could lead others to feel accused or put down. While I can understand your frustration that you don't feel your question was addressed, the guidelines of this site do not allow for this sort of response. An option which would have been well within the civility guidelines would have been to request that others return to the question you asked.
If you have any questions regarding the posting policies on this site, please read the FAQ, located at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil Follow ups to this action should be directed to the Administration board and should themselves be civil.
Dr Bob has ultimate authority over all administrative issues on this site, and may choose at any time to revise or reverse any action taken by a deputy.
Deputy Racer
Posted by Dade on August 21, 2008, at 20:39:14
In reply to Re: Being on Buprenorphine, then taking Darvon the » Dade, posted by Quintal on August 21, 2008, at 20:08:22
> Yes, I take Nurofen Plus and Paramol. I used to take two of each every 4-6 hours, but now I'm down to about two doses a day when I take it. I think it's actually making some of my problems worse now I've built up tolerance.
2 Nurofen+=~26mgs Cod phos=~20mgs Codeine, thats a small amount. Isn't Pamol just Paracetamol?
>
> About the splittable thing. I heard it used to come as two halves stuck together with codeine and ibuprofen in a different side. I wish it still came like that! I was told the manufacturer changed it due to abuse potential, but really would it have been so bad to just leave it as it was? I don't think people were dying or being poisoned in large numbers.
HAHA!! EXACTLY-they changed the formulation~2.5 years ago and lost a good deal of sales i'm sure, for me at least!! the Codeine and Ibu were stuck together and just popped apart! a 48 pack contained 600mgs Codeine for $20NZ, and i often took 150-200mgs of the Codeine only 1/2 with a soda drink on an empty stomach in the morning, had to rotate pharmacies as i was buying 3-4 pacs a week.The antidepressant effects were clean and smooth, anti anx effects greater than Diazepam, and i had more energy (Codeine shown to be effective in narcolepsy) and greater interest in life, but the greatest effect had to be the feeling of "just being ok" where i was, what i was doing-a mental felling of "just being", relaxed and clear. I would sometimes take a dose after work, have a shower and feel invigourated, refreshed.
I knew something was up when they bought out the 72 packs and was right-different pac design, mixed C+ibu. No there were not large numbers of folks being poisoned, as thoes who knew about it took the Codeine 1/2-which had the C+harmless fillers. The Ibu does the stomach damage in large amounts. I'm guessing they (boots) were sorely pressured into changing the formulation$$$
Theres Panadeine+, 15mgs Codeine+500mg Paracetamol, and a few of thoes and Nurofen + could make up 100mgs i guess, but don't medicate with Codeine nowdays.
I'm am convinced Opiates/oids are very effective ADs, AAs and APs for alot of people.
Posted by Quintal on August 21, 2008, at 21:57:54
In reply to Q-Codeine. » Quintal, posted by Dade on August 21, 2008, at 20:39:14
>2 Nurofen+=~26mgs Cod phos=~20mgs Codeine, thats a small amount. Isn't Pamol just Paracetamol?
Paramol is paracetamol and dihydrocodeine, I forget how much but once I worked it out to be equivalent to about 50mg per dose in total, so I was taking something like 200mg a day. It would be a relatively small dose for recreational purposes, but 60mg every 4 hours is the recommended maximum for pain and I found it worked well for depression at that dose for about a year.
>I'm am convinced Opiates/oids are very effective ADs, AAs and APs for alot of people.
Yes they seem to help almost everything.
Q
Posted by robbieboy74 on August 21, 2008, at 22:30:12
In reply to Re: Q-Codeine. » Dade, posted by Quintal on August 21, 2008, at 21:57:54
Yeah lets just talk about codeine even though it is totally unhelpful and is off topic and could be part of a different topic. Let's get everyone off track so they ignore my question. Whatever. I OD'd last night on darvon since this wasn't answered. I had a seizure
Posted by gardenergirl on August 21, 2008, at 23:41:13
In reply to Re: Q-Codeine., posted by robbieboy74 on August 21, 2008, at 22:30:12
> I OD'd last night on darvon since this wasn't answered. I had a seizure
Please don't attribute to others responsibility for your own behavioral choices.
gg
Posted by Dade on August 21, 2008, at 23:56:15
In reply to Re: Q-Codeine., posted by robbieboy74 on August 21, 2008, at 22:30:12
> Yeah lets just talk about codeine even though it is totally unhelpful
It is to many folks
and is off topic and could be part of a different topic.
Ok-didn't mean to hijack yr thread, but hey take it easy for healths sake?
Let's get everyone off track so they ignore my question. Whatever. I OD'd last night on darvon since this wasn't answered. I had a seizure
Unfortunate about that-but as GG said don't blame others for yr actions
Posted by Dade on August 22, 2008, at 0:02:19
In reply to Re: Q-Codeine. » Dade, posted by Quintal on August 21, 2008, at 21:57:54
> >I'm am convinced Opiates/oids are very effective ADs, AAs and APs for alot of people.
>
> Yes they seem to help almost everything.
>
> QYes, seems so. A funny thing just happened, a guy~60s, came round to measure the power meter and told me he had cancer a while ago. He was given alot of Morphine IR and didn't like taking it so threw the lot away, seemed like such a waste to me, was tempted to tell him to throw it my way next time:S
Posted by robbieboy74 on August 22, 2008, at 14:10:02
In reply to Re: Q-Codeine. » Quintal, posted by Dade on August 22, 2008, at 0:02:19
I hate you for hijacking off my thread.
Posted by UGottaHaveHope on August 22, 2008, at 19:27:11
In reply to Re: Q-Codeine., posted by robbieboy74 on August 22, 2008, at 14:10:02
Hey Robbie, the topic often changes a lot in every thread. Feel free to re-post your question in this thread or start another one at the bottom. Hope you're doing better, Michael
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on August 23, 2008, at 1:18:20
In reply to Re: Q-Codeine., posted by robbieboy74 on August 22, 2008, at 14:10:02
>it is totally unhelpful
>Let's get everyone off track so they ignore my question.
>I OD'd last night on darvon since this wasn't answered.
> I hate you for hijacking off my thread.As Deputy Racer requested earlier, please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. Since you have posted two uncivil posts since you were asked to follow the guidelines, I am going to block you from posting for one week.
I am very sorry to hear about your overdose and it's good to see you are feeling well enough to continue to post. Psycho-Babble can be an excellent place to post about thoughts and feelings that might have led up to that happening, and a place where you can receive all kinds of supportive replies, it is *not* acceptable to blame other posters here for your overdose.
After your one week block is over, you are welcome to return to the site, provided you follow the civility guidelines. In the meantime, please stay safe and I hope you find the help you need IRL.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil.
Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
-- 10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by Deputy Racer on August 23, 2008, at 1:19:03
In reply to Re: Q-Codeine., posted by robbieboy74 on August 22, 2008, at 14:10:02
> I hate you for hijacking off my thread.
Please don't post anything which could lead to someone feeling accused or put down. The site guidelines allow for threads to change direction. Because you've already been warned about this behavior, in this thread, I am now going to block you from posting for one week. After this block is over, I do hope you will return to Babble.
If you have any questions regarding the posting policies on this site, please read the FAQ, located at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil Follow ups to this action should be directed to the Administration board and should themselves be civil.
Dr Bob has ultimate authority over all administrative issues on this site, and may choose at any time to revise or reverse any action taken by a deputy.
Deputy Racer
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on August 23, 2008, at 1:23:51
In reply to Blocked for 1 week » robbieboy74, posted by Deputy Racer on August 23, 2008, at 1:19:03
Posted by Quintal on August 23, 2008, at 7:12:05
In reply to Re: Q-Codeine., posted by robbieboy74 on August 22, 2008, at 14:10:02
I'm sorry robbieboy got blocked here. My conflict resolution skills aren't that great and I'm not in a good place to handle that right now. I was just too tired at the time to go back over the original thread and find where questions were left unanswered. I decided it was better not to engage with my mood the way it is after a certain point. I hope robbieboy comes back and maybe start a new thread to ask the questions he wants answered.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on August 23, 2008, at 18:38:28
In reply to Re: Q-Codeine., posted by Quintal on August 23, 2008, at 7:12:05
Q I feel you did a good job of answering his questions. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.