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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mbluett on July 19, 2008, at 0:20:17
Hi All,
I just wanted to share this info with you. I have been on the med-go-round for the last 12 years and had never found anything that could give me a proper nights sleep until now. I was diagnosed as BPII with anxiety and chronic insomnia. I am currently on Lamictal 100mg and 150mg of Effexor daily. Neither of these meds improved my insomnia. I have tried at least 20 drugs and various combinations for my insomnia. I have finally found 3 meds that work extremely well together. At bedtime I take 10mg Valium, 100mg Lyrica and 7.5mg Remeron. I have woken up for the past 2 weeks feeling like a different person. The world now seems 'quieter' and more orderly. I have been experiencing greater mental clarity and reality seems to be more real as I finally feel 'awake' during the day.
My belief is that the Valium induces muscle relaxtion and pulls the GABA handbrake in the brain. Th Lyrica slows my mental processes and induces stage 4 slow wave sleep. The Remeron seems to shut off anxiety and insomnia via antagonism of the 5HT2 and 5HT3 receptors. This cocktail seems to hit the problem from 3 different angles.
I feel like a completely different person as I have not known what life was like without insomnia for the past 20 years. I would highly recommend this combination for those of you with stubborn insomnia. The beauty of this combo is that the dosages can be tweaked accordingly.
All best.
Posted by Phillipa on July 19, 2008, at 0:29:23
In reply to Cocktail for chronic insomnia, posted by mbluett on July 19, 2008, at 0:20:17
What would 25mg of lyrica do during the day relax or make you more tired. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by BGB on July 19, 2008, at 0:38:05
In reply to Cocktail for chronic insomnia, posted by mbluett on July 19, 2008, at 0:20:17
From what I understand Remeron is also a decent antihistamine at low doses, adding yet another sedative component to the mix. Congrats on finding something that works so well for you!!! =)
Posted by X-ray on July 19, 2008, at 5:11:30
In reply to Cocktail for chronic insomnia, posted by mbluett on July 19, 2008, at 0:20:17
Hi,
I have read your post with great interest.
My new doc has suggested that I take Lyrica and Remeron in the evening.
- You'll sleep like a log, he said.
The dosage of Lyrica would be 50 mg in the evening and 50 mg in the morning.
We didn't discuss the Remeron dosage.My concern is that this combo would knock me out completely.
How do you feel in the morning?
Best regards,
X-ray
Posted by mbluett on July 19, 2008, at 7:14:25
In reply to Re: Cocktail for chronic insomnia » mbluett, posted by Phillipa on July 19, 2008, at 0:29:23
> What would 25mg of lyrica do during the day relax or make you more tired. Thanks Phillipa
Hi. I have tried 50mg of Lyrica three times daily and it was great for anxiety. It didn't make me tired. It did make me a bit dizzy though so I tried a once daily dose at night.
Posted by mbluett on July 19, 2008, at 7:17:10
In reply to Re: Cocktail for chronic insomnia, posted by BGB on July 19, 2008, at 0:38:05
> From what I understand Remeron is also a decent antihistamine at low doses, adding yet another sedative component to the mix. Congrats on finding something that works so well for you!!! =)
>Yes, you're right. It acts on H1 receptors. It is a very interesting drug. At doses above 7.5mg I seem to retain water and get extremely hungry.
Posted by mbluett on July 19, 2008, at 7:21:04
In reply to Re: Cocktail for chronic insomnia, posted by X-ray on July 19, 2008, at 5:11:30
> Hi,
>
> I have read your post with great interest.
>
> My new doc has suggested that I take Lyrica and Remeron in the evening.
>
> - You'll sleep like a log, he said.
>
> The dosage of Lyrica would be 50 mg in the evening and 50 mg in the morning.
> We didn't discuss the Remeron dosage.
>
> My concern is that this combo would knock me out completely.
>
> How do you feel in the morning?
>
> Best regards,
> X-ray
>I would just take the dose in the evening. No need to take in the morning aswell. It is the best sleep I have ever had. Once you find the right dosage you will wake feeling refreshed. I have never experienced that with any sleep med that I have tried in the past. There always seem to be a 'payback' with a hangover the next day.
Posted by Quintal on July 19, 2008, at 10:28:25
In reply to Re: Cocktail for chronic insomnia, posted by mbluett on July 19, 2008, at 7:21:04
Does anyone know how Lyrica affects sleep architecture? I jsut started Lyrica yesterday and I seemed to sleep more deeply last night. For the first time in ages I felt refreshed and ready to take on the day. I usually wake up more tired than when I went to bed.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on July 19, 2008, at 19:52:07
In reply to Re: Cocktail for chronic insomnia, posted by Quintal on July 19, 2008, at 10:28:25
Q that is great but I can't just stop valium and try it can I? Phillipa
Posted by UGottaHaveHope on July 20, 2008, at 2:18:18
In reply to Re: Cocktail for chronic insomnia » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on July 19, 2008, at 19:52:07
I have been diagnosed with anxiety/depression and tried 35+ meds over the past 11 years.
All of it is really throwing darts, because every med affects everyone differently. However, I was telling a friend the other day, that if I knew one med that helped definitely for one thing, it was Seroquel for sleep. It is like Benadryl on steriods or being shot w/an elephant dart.
The great thing is it won't take 4-6 weeks to know. You will know the first day, within an hour if it works. I recommend starting on the lowest dose, 25mg, or even half of that.
Disclaimer: Seroquel, taken w/some meds, could cause any effect, even insomnia. However, taken alone, man oh man you will turn into Rip Van Winkle. Ask your pdoc for a sample.
Posted by BGB on July 20, 2008, at 2:56:40
In reply to Re: Seroquel is miracle for sleep, posted by UGottaHaveHope on July 20, 2008, at 2:18:18
I would agree that Seroquel will knock you the f*** out, especially at really small doses (25mg or less). Watch out for uncontrollable movements, though (especially in your legs). It is not something that is common, but the manufacturer says that these could become permanent, and they made me feel like I was in agony. Luckily for me they went away when I discontinued the medication, but if they hadn't, I would definitely have killed myself by now because they were truly unbearable.
Posted by JohnnyBLinux on July 20, 2008, at 3:36:28
In reply to Re: Seroquel is miracle for sleep, posted by BGB on July 20, 2008, at 2:56:40
Seroquel knocked me the heck out. Though I'm not presently taking it, I've taken 25mg up to 100mg for sleep. Very very effective! You will sleep whether you want to or not. Miracle indeed.
Posted by UGottaHaveHope on July 20, 2008, at 11:13:02
In reply to Re: Seroquel is miracle for sleep, posted by BGB on July 20, 2008, at 2:56:40
Posted by UGottaHaveHope on July 20, 2008, at 11:18:12
In reply to Re: Less Seroquel, more sedation? (nm), posted by UGottaHaveHope on July 20, 2008, at 11:13:02
Yes, I forgot to mention that it seems to me, the less Seroquel I take the more effective it is for sedation. In other words, when I take 25mg, I sleep much better than I do on 100mg. And if you take 25mg and wake up in the middle of night, then just take 25mg again. Or you can cut the 25mg tablet in half, and take half when you go to sleep and another half if you wake up.
Make sure you read BGB's comments above about "uncontrollable movements." Fortunately, I've never had any experiences like that, and I've been taking Seroquel for about four years (up to 300mg/day), nor do I know any of my other friends that have had similar reactions. Nor have I read about a lot of other ppl on here having those reactions.
However, anything is possible, therefore you need to be aware of any and all side effects. And I am not aware of the other medications that BGB was/is taking, and that could've had an effect, too. You know, the entire combination of meds, and not necessarily Seroquel on its own, but maybe Seroquel on its own. You need to be aware of side effects with all meds.
Again the good news is this: Unlike many other meds discussed on this board, you will know the very first time (within 45 minutes) whether or not this med works for sleep. Not 4-6 weeks. Hope things work out for you, Michael
PS Probably the foremost expert on this board about Seroquel is a person named "Yxibow" That person is very helpful in answering any questions.
Posted by mbluett on July 20, 2008, at 12:47:31
In reply to Re: Seroquel is miracle for sleep, posted by UGottaHaveHope on July 20, 2008, at 2:18:18
> I have been diagnosed with anxiety/depression and tried 35+ meds over the past 11 years.
>
> All of it is really throwing darts, because every med affects everyone differently. However, I was telling a friend the other day, that if I knew one med that helped definitely for one thing, it was Seroquel for sleep. It is like Benadryl on steriods or being shot w/an elephant dart.
>
> The great thing is it won't take 4-6 weeks to know. You will know the first day, within an hour if it works. I recommend starting on the lowest dose, 25mg, or even half of that.
>
> Disclaimer: Seroquel, taken w/some meds, could cause any effect, even insomnia. However, taken alone, man oh man you will turn into Rip Van Winkle. Ask your pdoc for a sample.I tried Seroquel for a few months and seemed get more depressed. I felt disconnected from the world. It only worked at 100mg and above. I know that it can be a sleep miracle for some, but I try and avoid antipsychotics for sleep as I think that they shut down too many receptors in the body and long term effects can become a problem.
Posted by obsidian on July 20, 2008, at 14:23:25
In reply to Re: Seroquel is miracle for sleep, posted by mbluett on July 20, 2008, at 12:47:31
I take seroquel for anxiety primarily
it knocks me out for sure and seems to hammer down my anxious energy
it can be a little flattening though
sometimes I have been glad for it
sometimes I've really had enough of it and wish I could just sleep on my own
Posted by mbluett on July 20, 2008, at 19:09:07
In reply to Re: Cocktail for chronic insomnia, posted by Quintal on July 19, 2008, at 10:28:25
> Does anyone know how Lyrica affects sleep architecture? I jsut started Lyrica yesterday and I seemed to sleep more deeply last night. For the first time in ages I felt refreshed and ready to take on the day. I usually wake up more tired than when I went to bed.
>
> QHi Q. This is what I found on PubMed:
A double-blind study in healthy volunteers to assess the effects on sleep of pregabalin compared with alprazolam and placebo.
Hindmarch I, Dawson J, Stanley N.
HPRU Medical Research Centre, University of Surrey, School of Biomedical & Molecular Sciences, Egerton Road, Guildford, UK.
STUDY OBJECTIVES: To assess the effects of pregabalin compared with alprazolam and placebo on aspects of sleep in healthy volunteers. DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo- and active-controlled, 3-way crossover. SETTING: Single research center. PARTICIPANTS AND INTERVENTIONS: Healthy adult (12 men) volunteers (N=24) received oral pregabalin 150 mg t.i.d., alprazolam 1 mg t.i.d., and placebo t.i.d. for 3 days. MEASUREMENTS AND RESULTS: Objective sleep was measured by an 8-channel polysomnograph; subjective sleep was measured using the Leeds Sleep Evaluation Questionnaire. Compared with placebo, pregabalin significantly increased slow-wave sleep both as a proportion of the total sleep period and the duration of stage 4 sleep. Alprazolam significantly reduced slow-wave sleep. Pregabalin and alprazolam produced modest, but significant, reductions in sleep-onset latency compared with placebo. Rapid eye movement sleep latency after pregabalin was no different than placebo but was significantly shorter than that found with alprazolam. Although there were no differences between the active treatments, both pregabalin and alprazolam reduced rapid eye movement sleep as a proportion of the total sleep period compared with placebo. Pregabalin also significantly reduced the number of awakenings of more than 1 minute in duration. Leeds Sleep Evaluation Questionnaire ratings of the ease of getting to sleep and the perceived quality of sleep were significantly improved following both active treatments, and ratings of behavior following awakening were significantly impaired by both drug treatments. CONCLUSIONS: Pregabalin appears to have an effect on sleep and sleep architecture that distinguishes it from benzodiazepines. Enhancement of slow-wave sleep is intriguing, since reductions in slow-wave sleep have frequently been reported in fibromyalgia and general anxiety disorder.
Posted by UGottaHaveHope on July 21, 2008, at 1:43:54
In reply to Re: Seroquel is miracle for sleep, posted by mbluett on July 20, 2008, at 12:47:31
Well, I was just saying that Seroquel could help your insomnia. I do not know what effect it has on depression, just sleep.
Sleep is paramount to me. If I don't get a good night's sleep, it tends to ruin any CHANCE of having a good day :(
I sure hope you are sleeping and feeling better soon, Michael
Posted by Quintal on July 21, 2008, at 4:39:09
In reply to Re: Cocktail for chronic insomnia, posted by mbluett on July 20, 2008, at 19:09:07
Thany you for taking the time to search for that. This is what I've found with Lyrica, I seem to have deeper, more restful sleep and fewer awakenings than I did with zopiclone alone.
Q
Posted by zena on July 22, 2008, at 21:51:30
In reply to Re: Seroquel is miracle for sleep, posted by obsidian on July 20, 2008, at 14:23:25
I have been on remeron for several years & the weight gain was to much so my Dr. put me on 25mg. seroquel. I was on it a week & the side affects scared me. It can cause diabetes & at my last exam which was two weeks ago my sugar count was a little high so I went off of it. There are far more side effects with this drug than remeron. I am going to see a new Dr. to see what route I can take. I would like to go off remeron but worry about my sleep.
This is the end of the thread.
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