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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Amigan on July 4, 2008, at 13:57:48
Sulbutiamine (Arcalion) is a B1 derivative. It is used for the treatment of asthenia and fatigue and as a nootropic, mainly.
If anyone has used it in the past or still using it, i would like to hear his/her experiences with it.
Thank you.
Posted by Quintal on July 4, 2008, at 14:11:59
In reply to Sulbutiamine experiences?, posted by Amigan on July 4, 2008, at 13:57:48
Funny you should post this. I was just thinking yesterday "What was the name of that orange vitamin thing I took back in 2005?". I can't remember much about it. I don't think it did anything spectacular, but I was on an awful lot of other dugs at that time, so it's hard to tell what it might have been doing.
Q
Posted by Sigismund on July 4, 2008, at 14:25:29
In reply to Re: Sulbutiamine experiences?, posted by Quintal on July 4, 2008, at 14:11:59
I have read that it has a challenging taste.
Posted by undopaminergic on July 4, 2008, at 14:59:51
In reply to Sulbutiamine experiences?, posted by Amigan on July 4, 2008, at 13:57:48
I've used it for some time, and in my experience, it does nothing spectacular. It proabably is a little bit stimulating, energising, etc., but not enough to consider it worth continuing in the long term. It has no adverse effects.
I can also confirm that it has a very bitter taste.
Posted by Amigan on July 5, 2008, at 10:34:52
In reply to Re: Sulbutiamine experiences?, posted by undopaminergic on July 4, 2008, at 14:59:51
> I've used it for some time, and in my experience, it does nothing spectacular. It proabably is a little bit stimulating, energising, etc., but not enough to consider it worth continuing in the long term. It has no adverse effects.
Ok. So what would you recommend as a good alternative? (No controlled substances like Ritalin and aderall, please)
Perhaps you remember that i'm taking Selegiline and it worked great at the first week, but then it effectiveness slowly decresed. Now i would describe Selegiline using your words: "probably is a little bit stimulating, energising, etc., but not enough to consider it worth continuing in the long term."
Is Adrafinil a good choise? Are -racetams any good? How about Bupropion?
> I can also confirm that it has a very bitter taste.I seem to remember that Arcalion pills are sugar-coated, but anyway, i don't care about the taste.
Posted by undopaminergic on July 6, 2008, at 5:38:10
In reply to Re: Sulbutiamine experiences?, posted by Amigan on July 5, 2008, at 10:34:52
> > I've used it for some time, and in my experience, it does nothing spectacular. It proabably is a little bit stimulating, energising, etc., but not enough to consider it worth continuing in the long term. It has no adverse effects.
>
> Ok. So what would you recommend as a good alternative? (No controlled substances like Ritalin and aderall, please)
>There are many alternatives to Ritalin, and some to Adderall, that aren't controlled substances. Unfortunately, most of them are research compounds that are difficult to find.
To be honest, I don't know of anything (including large doses of methylphenidate) that appears to be sufficiently stimulating to me at this point. In addition to experiments with beta2-adrenergic agonists, I will be looking into some research chemicals. There are also various little things I haven't tried, such as lithium for augmentation.
> Perhaps you remember that i'm taking Selegiline and it worked great at the first week, but then it effectiveness slowly decresed. Now i would describe Selegiline using your words: "probably is a little bit stimulating, energising, etc., but not enough to consider it worth continuing in the long term."
>Consider adding phenylalanine or phenylethylamine (PEA). The latter is very potent, so be careful with it.
Also, what about trying L-dopa again, but with salbutamol (Ventoline) or other beta2-adrenergic agonists? This is one experiment I'm planning. (See my posts to the Neurotransmitters forum if you haven't.)
> Is Adrafinil a good choise?
I've been trying it lately and not noticing much. However, a blood pressure measurement recenly revealed about 170 systolic, and that was potentially adrafinil-related, since it was the only unusual drug I had taken at the time. The BP is now back down to 130 or less, without adrafinil, so we'll see what happens when I try it again.
Also, adrafinil may have adverse hepatic effects in the long term.
It seems adrafinil is mostly a cheaper substitute for modafinil. Some find modafinil to be very good, but I've found it to have only very mild effects - in particular, it appears to prolong wakefulness, and initially, it seemed to enhance cognition.
> Are -racetams any good?
Yes, for some people. They don't seem to do much for me, however.
The acetylcholinesterase inhibitors (including at least galanthamine and huperzine A) are worth trying if you're looking for cognitive improvement, but I can't say they are energising in any way. However, I've not tried galanthamine, which is also a nicotinic agonist, and thus may share some mild stimulant properties with nicotine. On the other hand, since I've tried nicotine chewing gum without much effect, I'm not very optimistic about galanthamine.
> How about Bupropion?
>I haven't tested it, but it's a good drug for many people. Where I live, it's easier and cheaper to get methylphenidate, and bupropion is only marketed for smoking-cessation and there's no reimbursement from the public health insurance.
> > I can also confirm that it has a very bitter taste.
>
> I seem to remember that Arcalion pills are sugar-coated, but anyway, i don't care about the taste.
>I used sulbutiamine in powder form, as it was much cheaper that way.
Posted by Amigan on July 6, 2008, at 11:15:04
In reply to Re: Sulbutiamine experiences?, posted by undopaminergic on July 6, 2008, at 5:38:10
Thanks again for answering!
> > Perhaps you remember that i'm taking Selegiline and it worked great at the first week, but then it effectiveness slowly decresed. Now i would describe Selegiline using your words: "probably is a little bit stimulating, energising, etc., but not enough to consider it worth continuing in the long term."
> >
>
> Consider adding phenylalanine or phenylethylamine (PEA). The latter is very potent, so be careful with it.Heh, i was planning to try this a couple of months ago but i always postpone it for "later", for some reason. I think this has to do with my low motivation..
I will order some phenylalanine and post the results.
> Also, what about trying L-dopa again, but with salbutamol (Ventoline) or other beta2-adrenergic agonists? This is one experiment I'm planning.I never thought of b2 agonists as an option. I do remember that some asthma patients compain that they are causing them jitterness and insomnia. Perhaps they worth a try.
As for the L-Dopa i hesitate to try it again. Besides having no apparent psychoactive effect on me it acts like an emetic.>(See my posts to the Neurotransmitters forum if you haven't.)
Checking it right away.
> > Is Adrafinil a good choise?
>
> I've been trying it lately and not noticing much. However, a blood pressure measurement recenly revealed about 170 systolic, and that was potentially adrafinil-related, since it was the only unusual drug I had taken at the time. The BP is now back down to 130 or less, without adrafinil, so we'll see what happens when I try it again.Scary! Hypertention is one of the side-effects i afraid the most.
> Also, adrafinil may have adverse hepatic effects in the long term.
>
> It seems adrafinil is mostly a cheaper substitute for modafinil. Some find modafinil to be very good, but I've found it to have only very mild effects - in particular, it appears to prolong wakefulness, and initially, it seemed to enhance cognition.Actually Adrafinil is metabolized into Modafinil inside the body. It acts like a retarded release Modefinil, hence it's weaker. The only benefits of Adrafinil is that it's cheaper and not scheduled.
> > Are -racetams any good?
>
> Yes, for some people. They don't seem to do much for me, however.I have tried Piracetam, but only for a while. I can't say i noticed much, too.
> The acetylcholinesterase inhibitors (including at least galanthamine and huperzine A) are worth trying if you're looking for cognitive improvement, but I can't say they are energising in any way. However, I've not tried galanthamine, which is also a nicotinic agonist, and thus may share some mild stimulant properties with nicotine. On the other hand, since I've tried nicotine chewing gum without much effect, I'm not very optimistic about galanthamine.Ok.
> > How about Bupropion?
> >
>
> I haven't tested it, but it's a good drug for many people. Where I live, it's easier and cheaper to get methylphenidate, and bupropion is only marketed for smoking-cessation and there's no reimbursement from the public health insurance.Yeah, insurances doesn't cover it here too, unless you have a serious health problems which are smoking related. The price is ridiculous and that's why i haven't try it yet. I haven't look for a cheaper source, like an online pharmacy yet.
Posted by Sigismund on July 6, 2008, at 18:37:24
In reply to Re: Sulbutiamine experiences?, posted by Amigan on July 6, 2008, at 11:15:04
I found the effect of piracetam, aniracetam and centrophenoxine to be quite unhelpful.
They all made me feel awful (strained), once I took enough to notice.
Posted by Amigan on July 10, 2008, at 0:34:10
In reply to Re: Sulbutiamine experiences?, posted by Sigismund on July 6, 2008, at 18:37:24
Ok. I took 600mg yesterday and i didn't notice a thing. I've had a migraine the next day but i think that this is not related.
This is the end of the thread.
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