![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 38. Go back in thread:
Posted by West on June 7, 2008, at 13:12:30
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by dbc on June 7, 2008, at 10:58:21
Thanks for your thoughts >> dbc- i think you're absolutely right about p'docs being conservative here. I just saw an on call GP here who was running an out of hours surgery in Northallerton and she agreed to give me a prescription for 3 diazepam 'just to tide me over' until i could see my real GP on monday. She hinted strongly that she was doing me a favour and that this was not normal practice. My GP HAS prescribed me 30 diazepam 5mg before after i complained of dysphoria and sleeplessness with suicidal ideation (a rough patch). Actually i would be happy enough with this(diazepam)kind of relief in the long-term: i don't usually find it takes much to throw me out of my feelings of dysthymia and unease. Someone posted earlier (a fellow atypical) about seeing a doctor and after presenting their symptoms, asking whether he thought she had atypical depression, the doctor relied 'no, i think your symptoms are quite typical of depression'. She said she found this 'quite disheartening', I call it a f**king disgrace- the least these people could, on their £100,000 salaries is begin to familiarise themselves with, and learn to distinguish, highly prevalent mood disorders- so that a proper diagnosis can be made.In addition he/she touched on the sense of feeling like a 'phoney' depressive- that to others he/she appeared to be prefectly fine but if he/she was quizzed on how they felt when alone 10 mins earlier a safe bet would be far from wonderful- i get this. (Even my parents wonder when i sudenly fall silent whether i'm simply indulging what they call my 'artistic side'). This might be true if i didn't experience consistent bouts of mental anguish. It must be costing the nhs serious time and money to have patients go back and forth between GPs and psychiatrists for lack of a proper diagnosis and the appropriate psychic drugs. The private psychiatrist who I will see has a very dim view of things, saying that apparently very few nhs p'docs are encouraged to identify anyone who isn't BP or schizophrenic. RE the amphetamines it does sound as if dexedrine might be problematic and a little counter-productive. Ritalin allowed me to focus and write in some depth, something i have very rarely found capable of doing despite achieving respectable a-levels from a great school. Since then things haven't gone quite as smoothly and i have flaked out on 4 courses at 3 universities/Art schools and am considering dropping out on my current decision choice of fine art. Not that the alternative is any better- i'd rather be on a course i don't attend than face holding down a job. My brain is on sabbatical, leaving me with this hungry hollow cave which gobbles up all worldy knowledge and facts and clarity, generally refusing me any access to it and being a total bastard. I am intersted in amilsupride
which i understand is an asti-psychotic, but at low doses a partial dopamine agonist which sounds very interesting. Will it produce a ritalin-style lift and focus? Sorry for the ranting- it's really good to share all this stuff. Best of luck to you all ! Westphalia
Posted by West on June 7, 2008, at 13:32:51
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine?? » West, posted by Horned One on June 7, 2008, at 10:18:47
Horned one- you mention using the poppy to soothe your psychic woes- i'm sure you know opium is the oldest AD in the book- physicians would routinely prescribe laudenum for sufferers of the black dog. Opium grains were available over the counter from pharmacists, one account from the 19th C. tells of the wave of epidemic opium consumption among the proliteriat in Manchester during a time when it was cheaper than ale. Kids all doped up and everything. Apparently opium , not tea, was the opium of the masses.
Posted by dbc on June 7, 2008, at 14:58:25
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by West on June 7, 2008, at 13:12:30
> Thanks for your thoughts >> dbc- i think you're absolutely right about p'docs being conservative here. I just saw an on call GP here who was running an out of hours surgery in Northallerton and she agreed to give me a prescription for 3 diazepam 'just to tide me over' until i could see my real GP on monday. She hinted strongly that she was doing me a favour and that this was not normal practice.
>Thats insane, i receive 60 10mg diazepam a month. Although taking that many would get me an odd hmm and a hah from the old doctor so i try to maintain a more moderate dose unless were trying out a new psych med that i cant tolerate (seroquel anyone?) and then i get the green light to take however many is needed.
Posted by Horned One on June 7, 2008, at 15:43:36
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by dbc on June 7, 2008, at 10:58:21
>The UK mental health system sounds well...odd. In the US things like social anxiety are usually taken care of by a psychologists rather than medication.
Sounds like an awful lot of posters in the US are taking medication (particularly benzos) for social anxiety. I thought the craze for CBT was pretty much a UK thing - CBT is the preferred treatment for social anxiety and depression here, with medication usually being a short-term measure. My pdoc insisted I see a CBT therapist as one of the conditions of supplying me with clonazepam, and I'm still being pestered to have therapy. Actually I had a referral in January, but I still haven't heard anything back from that. It took over a year to get an assessment interview from my CBT therapist.
>Hey parnate is an awsome drug for depression and the anhedonia you describe but its not something to be taken lightly. It can be dangerous if a doctor doesnt understand what they're doing with an MAOI or a patient doesnt know about some of the dangers (ie you can die from eating types of cheese).
On balance, Dexedrine isn't a drug to be taken lightly either. I think the dietary restrictions are pretty much notorious, but I didn't have a problem with them myself.
>The same goes for dexedrine except its amazingly and brutally addictive. During the 60s and 70s it was prescribed pretty openly along with valium and both became a problem of epidemic proportions and so prescribe it very infrequently in the US compared to ritalin or adderal. The only drug with more negative stigma attached to it is Desoxyn (methamphetamine).
From the 50s through to the 70s there was an epidemic of barbiturate/amphetamine (Purple Hearts, Dexamyl etc) and benzo addiction here. These days it's pretty much impossible to get prescriptions for any of those drugs, especially if you're a young adult. There was a big crackdown on these kinds of drugs from the late 70s to the mid 80s, but British doctors certainly weren't always as conservative in their prescribing habits. Prescriptions for Valium, barbs and amphetamines peaked in the 70s - I read in "The Pursuit of Oblivion" that in 1976 there were enough barbiturates prescribed on the NHS to supply every man, woman and child in the country with a sleeping pill for every day of the year. Amazing to think how prescribing habits have changed so drastically in a relatively short period of time. One of the reasons my pdoc is willing to give me zopiclone is because he did his training in that era, and thinks that 'the pendulum has swung too far in this country'.
-Horny
Posted by Phillipa on June 7, 2008, at 16:06:33
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine?? » dbc, posted by Horned One on June 7, 2008, at 15:43:36
Followed the thread and what you all say is true about the USA no opiods here unless just had surgery. Phillipa
Posted by West on June 7, 2008, at 17:06:34
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine?? » dbc, posted by Horned One on June 7, 2008, at 15:43:36
>>CBT is the preferred treatment for social anxiety and depression here, with medication usually being a short-term measure.
There's a fantacial puritanism in 'proving' you are a legitimate candidate for drug prescription. Like it's a test. Actually CBT was useless to me since my problem is primarily anhedonic not melancholic. Both my brother and I suffer from a biological low mood which, hard as it is for doctors to believe, has no environmental basis.
I'm still being pestered to have therapy. Actually I had a referral in January, but I still haven't heard anything back from that. It took over a year to get an assessment interview from my CBT therapist.
This is unbelievable. We are arguably at a higher risk of losing our lives than cancer patients.
> >Hey parnate is an awsome drug for depression and the anhedonia you describe but its not something to be taken lightly. It can be dangerous if a doctor doesnt understand what they're doing with an MAOI or a patient doesnt know about some of the dangers (ie you can die from eating types of cheese)
Parnate is i think discontinued here. I don't know why, tried googling it but got nothing. Nardil hits GABA which I need. Strangely, half a zopiclone got me out of the flat for a run in the park the other day (At 10pm)
>
> On balance, Dexedrine isn't a drug to be taken lightly either. I think the dietary restrictions are pretty much notorious, but I didn't have a problem with them myself.
>
> >The same goes for dexedrine except its amazingly and brutally addictive. During the 60s and 70s it was prescribed pretty openly along with valium and both became a problem of epidemic proportions and so prescribe it very infrequently in the US compared to ritalin or adderal. The only drug with more negative stigma attached to it is Desoxyn (methamphetamine).
>
> From the 50s through to the 70s there was an epidemic of barbiturate/amphetamine (Purple Hearts, Dexamyl etc) and benzo addiction here.My neighbour used to take these with his mates back when 'to get more drunk'. right. Sounds like the phenobarbital/d-amphetmine combo would probably would have been very effective for atypical, someone reported taking it as a student in the 70s as an effective study aid. She is diagnosed with adult ADD today.
One of the reasons my pdoc is willing to give me zopiclone is because he did his training in that era, and thinks that 'the pendulum has swung too far in this country'.
>This made me hmmm and nod and stroke my chin. Too true. Too true. We are at a very crude level with anxiolytics certainly. In the future they will have greater specificity, less amnesia/cognitive dulling and zero dependance (we can hope). That said i've never been under the thumb of real benzodiazepine dependance except for last summer when i had a rebound anxiety after taking one lorazepam everyday for a month.
What about Modafinil? I've taken it on its own and with escitalopram. Modalert is gritty. Modiodal is better but uber expensive unfortunately (£56 for 30) And sometimes frankly you just want a nap, which is obviously impossible (i found).
GaryLee- do you have the details of the harley street docs you mentionef. I am hoping a prescription for concerta will help if the Nardil plan doesn't come through
Posted by Horned One on June 7, 2008, at 18:16:57
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by West on June 7, 2008, at 17:06:34
>This is unbelievable. We are arguably at a higher risk of losing our lives than cancer patients.
I know. It's ridiculous that prescriptions are witheld in preference for psychological therapies, especially when they take so long. CBT was useless for me too.
>Parnate is i think discontinued here. I don't know why, tried googling it but got nothing. Nardil hits GABA which I need.
Parnate is still available here (as generic tranylcypromine) http://www.bnf.org/bnf/bnf/55/3346.htm?q=%22tranylcypromine%22#_hit. There are studies showing that it actually lowers GABA, in contrast to Nardil. I did find it useful (in combination with clonazepam) for my mood and anxiety. Nardil is the only MAOI I haven't taken, and that's because of the side effect profile. I think the combination of Parnate and a benzo is 'cleaner' and more tolerable than Nardil.
>Strangely, half a zopiclone got me out of the flat for a run in the park the other day (At 10pm)
I sometimes take a little bit of zopiclone during the day for the same reason. Benzos usually have an activating effect in me.
>That said i've never been under the thumb of real benzodiazepine dependance except for last summer when i had a rebound anxiety after taking one lorazepam everyday for a month.
I was addicted to clonazepam for years, but the docs just stopped my prescriptions one day, and I went to hell. The whole argument about benzo addiction is that they have a hellish withdrawal syndrome, so why deliberately cause such suffering?! I wasn't given a Valium taper, and I was even refused a Librium taper by the drug addiction unit I went to. Had I been a Heroin addict though, I'd have got a script for methadone and application form for benefits no messing. As it was, my doctor expected me to be fit for work after two weeks.
Posted by dbc on June 7, 2008, at 18:37:46
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine?? » dbc, posted by Horned One on June 7, 2008, at 15:43:36
> Sounds like an awful lot of posters in the US are taking medication (particularly benzos) for social anxiety. I thought the craze for CBT was pretty much a UK thing - CBT is the preferred treatment for social anxiety and depression here,
>Im an exception not the rule. I dont take benzos for social anxiety i take them because im a neurotic mess of a human being with a panic disorder most doctors have never even heard of an agoraphobia. Social anxiety is the least of my worries.
Usually whats considered minor anxiety disorders in the US are treated with SSRIs and therapy in combination. This is everything from social anxiety to even major cases of GAD.
Some of the older doctors dont fall for the benzo hysteria so much and are more relaxed about their use because they have practical real life experience with the drugs. Theres a big movement right now in psychiatry in the US to move from benzos to this 2nd (more like 3rd) generation anti-psychotics because of their supposed safety. Seroquel is the drug of choice in this crap and i almost suspected a lot of this is perpetuated by drug companies because this Atypical are expensive as hell compared to a $5 bottle of generic valium (were talking hundreds for seroquel and its the cheapest).
Posted by West on June 7, 2008, at 19:34:15
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by Horned One on June 7, 2008, at 18:16:57
> I know. It's ridiculous that prescriptions are witheld in preference for psychological therapies, especially when they take so long. CBT was useless for me too.Going to be tedious very briefly and say what about the cost of arranging cbt seesions and therapists vs largely generic ADs
>
> Parnate is still available here (as generic tranylcypromine) http://www.bnf.org/bnf/bnf/55/3346.htm?q=%22tranylcypromine%22#_hit. There are studies showing that it actually lowers GABA, in contrast to Nardil. I did find it useful (in combination with clonazepam) for my mood and anxiety. Nardil is the only MAOI I haven't taken, and that's because of the side effect profile. I think the combination of Parnate and a benzo is 'cleaner' and more tolerable than Nardil.Really? That's brilliant news. Questions 1) can you describe the effects (positive and negative)and 2)what is the likelihood of getting prescribed it WITH clonazepam (i assume it's quite
activating) - is relatively exotic stuff like this the preserve of the 'progressive' psychiatrist? Maybe you could even mention your pdoc - did you say youwere in Leeds?
> >Strangely, half a zopiclone got me out of the flat for a run in the park the other day (At 10pm)
>
> I sometimes take a little bit of zopiclone during the day for the same reason. Benzos usually have an activating effect in me.
>
Fat. Will give that one a try- who would have thought zopiclone would make it as an anxiolytic? The only forseeable problem with that would be balance + generally looking a bit 'mid-sleep'. If you ever need more I use u**tedph****cies (.co.uk) for imovane at very reasonable pricesAnd what of amilsulpride ?
Posted by undopaminergic on June 7, 2008, at 20:19:09
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by West on June 7, 2008, at 13:12:30
> I am intersted in amilsupride which i understand is an asti-psychotic, but at low doses a partial dopamine agonist which sounds very interesting.
>It's not a partial dopamine agonist, but a pure antagonist. The good thing is that it preferentially blocks presynaptic dopamine receptors that function as autoreceptors. Since these autoreceptors reduce or inhibit dopamine release, blocking them with amisulpride results in enhanced dopamine release, and as long as the dose of amisulpride is low enough not to negate the effect of increased neurotransmitter release by too extensive blockade of postsynaptic dopamine receptors, the result is a stimulant effect.
A good cheaper alternative to amisulpride is sulpiride.
> Will it produce a ritalin-style lift and focus?
>Yes, in my experience. Unfortunately, as with Ritalin, tolerance can develop and greatly diminish the effects.
Amisulpride/sulpiride and Ritalin can be used in combination, sometimes resulting in a stronger effect than with either drug alone.
Posted by undopaminergic on June 7, 2008, at 20:42:04
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by dbc on June 7, 2008, at 14:58:25
> > Thanks for your thoughts >> dbc- i think you're absolutely right about p'docs being conservative here. I just saw an on call GP here who was running an out of hours surgery in Northallerton and she agreed to give me a prescription for 3 diazepam 'just to tide me over' until i could see my real GP on monday. She hinted strongly that she was doing me a favour and that this was not normal practice.
> >
>
> Thats insane, i receive 60 10mg diazepam a month.
>I never had any trouble getting benzos either, here in the drug-restrictive Northern Europe.
> i try to maintain a more moderate dose unless were trying out a new psych med that i cant tolerate (seroquel anyone?) and then i get the green light to take however many is needed.
>I don't see why you would need more benzos while trying out such a sedative medication as Seroquel. Or did you find Seroquel to give you paradoxical agitation or insomnia?
Posted by West on June 7, 2008, at 20:43:49
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by West on June 7, 2008, at 19:34:15
>
> >>>>>> I know. It's ridiculous that prescriptions are witheld in preference for psychological therapies, especially when they take so long. CBT was useless for me too.
>
>>>>>> Going to be tedious very briefly and say what about the cost of arranging cbt seesions and therapists vs largely generic ADs
Sorry this wasn't clear. As in the human and financial cost of employing therapists and arranging sessions all over the place must grossly outweigh that of generic medecines>
Posted by West on June 7, 2008, at 20:49:25
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by undopaminergic on June 7, 2008, at 20:19:09
Sulpride- essentially a dopamine reuptake inhibitor then via bloacking of presynaptic dopamine. Sounds good. Will a british Pdoc be familiar with this do you think?
Posted by undopaminergic on June 7, 2008, at 21:01:48
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by West on June 7, 2008, at 20:49:25
> Sulpride- essentially a dopamine reuptake inhibitor then via bloacking of presynaptic dopamine. Sounds good. Will a british Pdoc be familiar with this do you think?
>Yes, except possibly some younger ones. Sulpiride is a pretty old drug, and hasn't been actively marketed for a long time.
Posted by dbc on June 7, 2008, at 23:27:49
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by undopaminergic on June 7, 2008, at 20:42:04
>
> I don't see why you would need more benzos while trying out such a sedative medication as Seroquel. Or did you find Seroquel to give you paradoxical agitation or insomnia?
>I didnt quite explain the situation. Lamictal was causing minor psychotic features with me and seroquel kicked off worse hallucinations. I have some really strange neurochemistry apparently.
Posted by Horned One on June 8, 2008, at 10:20:38
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by West on June 7, 2008, at 19:34:15
>Really? That's brilliant news. Questions 1) can you describe the effects (positive and negative)and 2)what is the likelihood of getting prescribed it WITH clonazepam (i assume it's quite
activating) - is relatively exotic stuff like this the preserve of the 'progressive' psychiatrist? Maybe you could even mention your pdoc - did you say youwere in Leeds?At high doses, Parnate was the most powerful stimulant I've ever taken (out of Ritalin, cocaine, amphetamine, phentermine, bupropion). So how does it help anxiety? One person described it as making him feel like a boxer getting psyched up for the fight. He found it gave him the energy and the oomph to tackle situations he would normally be afraid of and enjoy them. I found it gave me a 'buzzing' feeling and just generally made me feel more alive and productive.
On the downside, in the first week I felt like killing myself (but I've had this from other antidepressants too). This went away when I increased the dose to 40mg, and I started to like it very much. The stimulant effect tended to wear off in the afternoon - a phenomenon known among users as 'the Parnate slump'. I used to take an extra 20-30mg in the afternoon to overcome this effect. In the end I was taking 80-120mg a day, even though I was only prescribed 30mg. My pdoc took me off it after three months because he wasn't prepared to raise the dose beyond 30mg (higher doses are routinely used in the US). He was a horrible man and I wouldn't wish him on my worst enemy. Maybe he was progressive in the way he thought medication would play no part in the treatment of psychiatric disorders in the future (does this mean he thinks psychiatrists are becoming redundant?!) - I had to persuade him to give me anything, but I've had various MAOIs from two different pdocs. I've found them fairly reluctant to prescribe MAOIs, but because I've tried nearly everything else they were willing to relent. My old pdoc was Dr. Walker, and my new one is Dr. Burton. They are both based at West Park Hospital in Darlington. According to Google Earth it's just up the A167 from Northallerton.
It might be especially hard to get prescriptions for clonazepam because it's not licensed as an anxiolytic here. I did manage to get a GP to prescribe it off-label, but in time the other doctors put a stop to that. By the time I was taking Parnate I was getting my supply of clonazepam entirely from online pharmacies...
Amisulpride doesn't have any noradrenergic activity AFAIK, so it isn't as good for focus as Ritalin. I thought it felt more like a small dose of an opiate in the beginning. I was prescribed 200mg in hospital (for psychosis), but I managed to get that reduced to 50mg p.r.n as an outpatient. I've stopped taking it over the last few days because I don't think it's doing anything any more. I've been on it about six months now.
Any more questions just ask.
-Horny
Posted by West on June 8, 2008, at 12:39:34
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by Horned One on June 8, 2008, at 10:20:38
Just wrote a long reply and lost it to the old delete/page back trap. Practically in tears.
To summarise I am sorry to hear you had such a rough run with your doc over the parnate. My brother seemed to think it had been discontinued for lack of interest here, mysterious. Someone who's never experienced the kind of suffering associated with biological depression can't begin to understand how to correctly deal with it. It actually sounds as if he thought you needed disciplining, a probable cure, and that you were simply being self-indulgent. It's blood boiling stuff.
>>>On the downside, in the first week I felt like killing myself (but I've had this from other antidepressants too). This went away when I increased the dose to 40mg, and I started to like it very much. The stimulant effect tended to wear off in the afternoon - a phenomenon known among users as 'the Parnate slump'.Perhaps a fiercer cousin of what my brother calls the 'nardil nod'?
>>>> My old pdoc was Dr. Walker, and my new one is Dr. Burton. They are both based at West Park Hospital in Darlington. According to Google Earth it's just up the A167 from Northallerton.
So I take it Dr. Walker is the one to avoid? Thank you for the details - We sort of have a family doc who diagnosed my older sister with schizophrenia (7 years ago) and brother with atypical/BP 2 (he takes thyroid hormone, phenelzine, lamotrigine, hoodia, 5htp, rhodiola...i lose count). He is at the Friarage. I'm hoping to get in touch tomorrow and explain that the guy i saw, his understudy, thought me 'unengaged', 'describing myself as if i were a fictional character in a novel', generally in need of a good kick up the *rs* and fundementally well despite going into a dysphoric rage later that day until 4am, struggling to surpress my desire to put my fist through every door and window in my house. I am going to ask for some clonazepam until i can get an MAOI but odds are, as you say, they'll give me diazepam at the most.
>>> I was prescribed 200mg in hospital (for psychosis), but I managed to get that reduced to 50mg p.r.n as an outpatient. I've stopped taking it over the last few days because I don't think it's doing anything any more. I've been on it about six months now.
>
Psychosis is the one symptom i've never had. What is your diagnosis if you don't mind me asking?A fine day on the north york moors today, pity I couldn't enjoy it - but everyone else seemed to be
enjoying the good weather -West
Posted by dbc on June 8, 2008, at 13:09:19
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by West on June 8, 2008, at 12:39:34
Why do you want klonopin over valium? I've tried about every benzo in the book thats mainstream in the US and really diazepam is my preferred one because its low risk of getting strung out like with xanax. Good god i wouldnt wish xanax withdrawal on anyone.
Klonopin is pretty close to diazepam but the diazepan has an even longer half life.
Posted by West on June 8, 2008, at 15:59:12
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by dbc on June 8, 2008, at 13:09:19
>>> Why do you want klonopin over valium? I've tried about every benzo in the book thats mainstream in the US and really diazepam is my preferred one because its low risk of getting strung out like with xanax.
Well i don't know about xanax but Clonazepam feels less dulling/depressing than d'pam. In my (extremely) limited experience I would wager clonazepam is a better anxiolytic too. Perhaps you could elaborate on the getting strung out thing?
Posted by dbc on June 8, 2008, at 16:50:41
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by West on June 8, 2008, at 15:59:12
Physical addiction = strung out
Sometimes doctors are just ignorant or sometimes a patient is manipulative and sometimes its just nessecary but either way you end up on moderate to high doses of benzos daily and what this means in the end is addiction management.
Certain benzos are much easier to deal with in this department, diazepam being the easiest and xanax being the opposite.
Posted by Amigan on June 8, 2008, at 17:26:16
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by undopaminergic on June 7, 2008, at 21:01:48
> > Sulpride- essentially a dopamine reuptake inhibitor then via bloacking of presynaptic dopamine. Sounds good. Will a british Pdoc be familiar with this do you think?
> >
>
> Yes, except possibly some younger ones. Sulpiride is a pretty old drug, and hasn't been actively marketed for a long time.Amisulpride and Sulpiride are not DARIs to be precise. They block the presynaptic Dopamine autoreceptors. The final result is almost the same for both class of drugs, anyway, but Am-Sulp tends to "poop out" quickly in an almost predictable manner and their action is weak. It's close to placebo for me.
Posted by West on June 9, 2008, at 16:18:50
In reply to Re: Any doctors in UK prescribe dexedrine??, posted by Amigan on June 8, 2008, at 17:26:16
Saw GP and said i would like some diazepam for my dysphoria (playing devil's advocate by asking me to explain the meaning of dysphoria) for short as-and-when relief before i am put on an antidepressant by the psychiatrist (if i manage to actually get put on one.) He e-mailed ahead to the Pdoc
just to say he had given me the 7 diazepam. He asked why i didn't get out there and do stuff instead of reading about and asking for drugs. That was pretty hurtful.He didn't like my using psychiatric terms to describe my symptoms either. What they really want is someone who comes in complaining of back ache and poor sleep - 'it's okay you've got depression, it's a disease' - they love to explain in their most professionally calm middle-class tones before sending patients off with a bag of fluoxetine and a CBT leaflet.
In particular he couldn't understand why i make my depression worse by reading about it and sharing anecdotal information with fellow sufferers when i should be out there trying to make things better- 'there are things you can do.'He also said i should read about cbt instead and that there's an online service- which i would have taken as fair advice if cbt hadn't been shown to be predominantly ineffective in biological depression.
I ended up telling him that i didn't expect him to get it if he didn't have depression himself and that researching an illness hardly makes it worse but is in fact a form of positive action.
Also extra suspicious since i mentioned to another GP in leeds that i'd ordered tianeptine from the internet which, along with the ssri's didn't help a great deal i.e he didn't respond to antidepressants = not depressed. Add to that being 23 + candidly admitting past substance use- nothing out of the ordinary for university students however- just regular grass/periodic pills/coke for a time).As for amilsulpride- 'why do you want to take an antipsychotic?' he visibly winced. Somewhere between pit and contempt. Not a pleasant experience. For a doctor he was surprisingly anti-medication: his encompassing argument being that we don't know how they they work (he certainly didn't demonstrate any knowledge of their mechanisms but reassured me he was 'interested' in mental health)
Anything to smooth the passage if you ask me. Why not actually TRY and HELP make people's live's worth living ?
Actually i don't know if i am really depressed and now i'm starting to think maybe he's right. Hold on though, difficulty in decision-making, classic depressive symptom. Damn this knowledge.
Posted by West on June 9, 2008, at 16:22:05
In reply to Doc thinks there's nothing wrong with me, posted by West on June 9, 2008, at 16:18:50
Not going to touch the diazepam. He has actually made me guilty about it. Right now though ranting is
providing good relief. My apologies to anyone kind enough to be reading this. God Bless.
Posted by Horned One on June 9, 2008, at 17:41:35
In reply to Doc thinks there's nothing wrong with me, posted by West on June 9, 2008, at 16:18:50
>He asked why i didn't get out there and do stuff instead of reading about and asking for drugs. That was pretty hurtful.
I know, they don't seem to realise that we spend most of our days researching, then hoping and praying we'll get what we need at the next appointment. I stand accused of having 'an unhealthy obsession with psychopharmacology' by Dr. Walker, and just last week my social worker asked if 'thought I had a medication addiction' because 'whenever there's a dip in your mood you immediately think of a pharmocalogical solution'. I don't, but over the last few weeks my mood just went into freefall, so I asked very urgently for the antidepressant I've been waiting for since January. I know what you mean about '*if* you get an antidepressant when you see the pdoc. I've been waiting for six months for an antidepressant (so not exactly demanding an quick fix here), and I think the problem is I've just lost all hope of getting one. I'm crying out for help and just keep getting doors slammed in my face. Maybe I'll get one this time next year, but who know's what state I'll be in then? Maybe I'll be manic? If so I'll just have to stockpile it for when I need it next. There's no guaruntee of getting the treatment you need when you need it on the NHS. It needn't be this way though.
>Why not actually TRY and HELP make people's live's worth living ?
Do you ever wonder why they went in for that career? I'm getting cynical that the majority really want to help people. It's all about power and control. That comes before suffering.
>Actually i don't know if i am really depressed and now i'm starting to think maybe he's right
Dr. Walker discharged me from secondary psychiatric services in 2006, claiming that 'I had an unhealthy obsession with psychopharmacology' i.e. I'm a hypochondriac and a malingerer. I sort of began to accept that over time, but last December I was sectioned under the mental health act for a manic episode, which I thought proved for all time that I had a real mental illness, but no. By rights my diagnosis should be Bipolar I, or even Schizoaffective Disorder, but I don't know if I actualy have a diagnosis. They're playing this trendy, progressive 'I don't want to label you with an illness' game here. He had no qualms about labelling me with borderline personality disorder though.
Trust your own instincts. You live with your illness, and you almost certainly know more about it than your doctor does.
-Horny
Posted by West on June 10, 2008, at 6:57:57
In reply to Re: Doc thinks there's nothing wrong with me, posted by Horned One on June 9, 2008, at 17:41:35
>>>Dr. Walker discharged me from secondary psychiatric services in 2006, claiming that 'I had an unhealthy obsession with psychopharmacology' i.e. I'm a hypochondriac and a malingerer. I sort of began to accept that over time
I'm primed and ready to receive this accusation - it seems the combination of being unwell and being articulate, intelligent + taking initiative doesn't wash with the NHS. Drugs cost money after all. The reason patients in the US have some relative freedom of choice respected by the pdocs in what they put pop in their mouths every day is presumably that they are paying top dollar for it.
>>I'm crying out for help and just keep getting doors slammed in my face.
This is more than you should stand for. Can you/family afford to see someone better privately?
>>but last December I was sectioned under the mental health act for a manic episode, which I thought proved for all time that I had a real mental illness, but no. By rights my diagnosis should be Bipolar I, or even Schizoaffective Disorder
Could anyone have a manic episode if, say, they were going through a highly stressful situation alone, or under the influence of a drug which didn't agree with them. What actually defines a manic episode?
Oh and I'm taking roaccutane (at half the recommended dose) to clear up persistent minor acne which MIGHT be a trigger. I have been diagnosed with depression previous to going on it though and certainly had low periods since adolescence. Only recently came off a 3 year SSRI
waltz (5 weeks ago) which i predict will raise an eyebrow.Horny what med are you pushing for. An MAOI?
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