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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by michael on June 5, 2000, at 12:34:03
In reply to hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by shellie on June 4, 2000, at 23:41:59
shellie -
this is from one of the sites I use for researching meds - part of the info on tramadol/ultram:
Use tramadol cautiously, if at all, in patients also receiving MAOIs. In animal studies, an increased number of deaths was noted with the combination due to interference with detoxification mechanisms.
I would assume that's why the doctors don't like the idea - be careful. michael
> I take a small amount of hydrocodone when I am very depressed (usually premenstrally), or when I feel stomach pain. It always helps with the depression. I have been using it for about two years, and have never increased the dose. My therapist and psydoc think this is very bad. I can't figure out, really why, since I don't seem to crave more and it makes me feel better. (I am also on an MAOI). I don't seem to have addiction tendencies. Does anyone else do this? With or without your doc's blessing?
> Also there was a thread about a year ago about a woman taking an MAOI and tramadol? Does anyone have experience with this? Does anyone's doctor proscribe this? I am tired of depression and I'm tired of trying new meds that are either ineffective or have side effects and the hydrocodone works with no side effects. Whats the problem?
Posted by FP on June 5, 2000, at 16:00:05
In reply to hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by shellie on June 4, 2000, at 23:41:59
> I take a small amount of hydrocodone when I am very depressed without your doc's blessing?
> hydrocodone works with no side effects. Whats the problem?Opiates as self-medication for depression - what's the problem? Well, w/o knowing you, there are a couple of possible answers to that question.
1. You may be one of the lucky few who can take opiates w/o becoming addicted. In that case, maybe there isn't a problem at all. Your docs may just be over-reacting, given all the anti-drug hysteria in the States.
2. Unless you decide to take them more frequently and DO become addicted.
3. Now, "addiction" is not always such a dirty word - many legel ADs are addictive, in that stopping them cold turkey will cause nasty mental or physical problems. But being addicted to something illegal (or at least hard to get) is a drag. You always worry about getting more, travel is a hassle, and, I repeat, you always worry about what will happen if your supply is cut off.
If your usage is genuinly, honestly, cross your heart, only once in awhile, AND STAYS THAT WAY, then it probably isn't a problem. It's the "AND STAYS THAT WAY" part that usually crosses people up though, myself included.
I might add that in adition to myself, and someone else who posted a similiar question a couple of months ago, I know one other person who has - literally - tried every AD available in the US, or close to it. She uses opium tea everyday, and found it bought her about a 2 years of reasonable, high functioning behaviour. Now she is having the sort of sleep problems that DeQuincey describes so well in "Diary of an English Opium Eater." (Or that Edgar Allan Poe made short stories from)
Oh well, enough scare talk. In closing, all I can say is, from a purely pragmatic perspective (say it 3 times fast), the legally accepted ADs are just EASIER.
And look at the bright side: happy people are shallow.
FP
Posted by shellie on June 5, 2000, at 16:38:20
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by FP on June 5, 2000, at 16:00:05
> > I take a small amount of hydrocodone when I am very depressed without your doc's blessing?
> > hydrocodone works with no side effects. Whats the problem?
>
> Opiates as self-medication for depression - what's the problem? Well, w/o knowing you, there are a couple of possible answers to that question.
>
> 1. You may be one of the lucky few who can take opiates w/o becoming addicted. In that case, maybe there isn't a problem at all. Your docs may just be over-reacting, given all the anti-drug hysteria in the States.
>
> 2. Unless you decide to take them more frequently and DO become addicted.
>
> 3. Now, "addiction" is not always such a dirty word - many legel ADs are addictive, in that stopping them cold turkey will cause nasty mental or physical problems. But being addicted to something illegal (or at least hard to get) is a drag. You always worry about getting more, travel is a hassle, and, I repeat, you always worry about what will happen if your supply is cut off.
>
> If your usage is genuinly, honestly, cross your heart, only once in awhile, AND STAYS THAT WAY, then it probably isn't a problem. It's the "AND STAYS THAT WAY" part that usually crosses people up though, myself included.
>
> I might add that in adition to myself, and someone else who posted a similiar question a couple of months ago, I know one other person who has - literally - tried every AD available in the US, or close to it. She uses opium tea everyday, and found it bought her about a 2 years of reasonable, high functioning behaviour. Now she is having the sort of sleep problems that DeQuincey describes so well in "Diary of an English Opium Eater." (Or that Edgar Allan Poe made short stories from)
>
> Oh well, enough scare talk. In closing, all I can say is, from a purely pragmatic perspective (say it 3 times fast), the legally accepted ADs are just EASIER.
>
> And look at the bright side: happy people are shallow.
>
> FPto fp. I never said I take it infrequently. Sometimes I'll take for a week every day. But still never more any day than 1/2 pill once. So it is not just a once in a while thing--its just a half a pill per day limit. Does the frequency matter if the dose is the same each time? A doctor gave me 120 pills-- 120 pills is enough for 1/2 pill for almost a year. Plus I have 60 more from my gastroendronolgist who doesn't seem concerned about addition (he doesn't know I take it for depression.) It seems like pretty much everyone agrees with my docs. shellie
Posted by Liz on June 6, 2000, at 13:25:24
In reply to hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by shellie on June 4, 2000, at 23:41:59
Shellie,
I'm a tramadol addict. It's fine with me, fine with my docs. I take it for chronic pain due to a neuro condition. Honestly it's not the greatest painkiller in the world BUT I'm highly functional on it and it has a wonderful feel good quality to it. Kind of activating and helps me work. I've taken it at different dosages over the past year, from 1/2 to 4 tabs per day. My only complaint is that it's highly constipating and rather expensive at .70 per tab.
Whenever I cut the dose even by half a tab I feel down and out for a week or more. Even being on Effexor. My p-doc is the only one who doesn't like me taking tramadol. He thinks if I took more antidepressant I could kick the habit. He is also worried about the seizure potential mixing tramadol and antidepressants. The neurologist tells me not to worry about it. I don't.I don't have an opinion either way whether this is misuse, or whether your use is appropriate. I am fully aware of my current dependence but don't care. Even with tramadol my life is constant ups and downs from the pain and disability. I feel better with it and thats all that counts.
Liz
> I take a small amount of hydrocodone when I am very depressed (usually premenstrally), or when I feel stomach pain. It always helps with the depression. I have been using it for about two years, and have never increased the dose. My therapist and psydoc think this is very bad. I can't figure out, really why, since I don't seem to crave more and it makes me feel better. (I am also on an MAOI). I don't seem to have addiction tendencies. Does anyone else do this? With or without your doc's blessing?
> Also there was a thread about a year ago about a woman taking an MAOI and tramadol? Does anyone have experience with this? Does anyone's doctor proscribe this? I am tired of depression and I'm tired of trying new meds that are either ineffective or have side effects and the hydrocodone works with no side effects. Whats the problem?
Posted by judy1 on June 10, 2000, at 0:56:59
In reply to hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by shellie on June 4, 2000, at 23:41:59
Hi Shellie,
I also take hydrocodone for panic disorder (in conjunction with klonopin). I have a very understanding psychiatrist who has had patients only respond to this in panic/depressive syndromes. If you are not building tolerance- which is fairly common with opiates- then I don't see a problem either. Unfortunately the medical establishment does, and I'm sorry you can't be truthful with your doc. I hope it continues to work well for you.
Posted by Bryce S. on June 16, 2000, at 15:40:29
In reply to hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by shellie on June 4, 2000, at 23:41:59
Shellie, since all opiates like hydrocodone and Ultram (the 2000 PDR is now classifiying it as an opiate like drug), they produce a feeling of euphoria, which I suppose could releive depression. The problem is that whenever you stop taking a drug like this it causes a swing in the opposite direction which is called a rebound effect and the more times you do it , the worse it gets. Thats probably why your shrink is freaking. Myself, I am a recovering addict and have experienced this type of depression and although it is pretty severe, it does pass. I wouldn't want to mess w/ opiates if I was clinically depressed though. Also way back when I could take small amounts of a drug I felt I had no kind of addictive tendencies. No one does !
Posted by puppylove14 on September 24, 2006, at 20:34:07
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by Bryce S. on June 16, 2000, at 15:40:29
Tramadol has been highly addictive for me. Obviously, it can cure your depression temporarily by giving you the feel good effects but once you quit taking it you feel even worse. I am trying to quit taking it but it has been extremly difficult because it makes me feel so much better and it makes me able to concentrate and get a lot of work done. I think about it all the time. Even though I only took it 2 - 3 times a week, it is still addicting. Be careful. I believe this drug has led to my four month depression without me even realizing it.
Posted by notfred on September 27, 2006, at 20:57:11
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by puppylove14 on September 24, 2006, at 20:34:07
I believe this drug has led to my four month depression without me even realizing it.
That can happen. However, for some opioids are the only effective treatment. For some opioids improve functioning for the long term without negative consequences. There was a poster here years ago, Elizabeth I think, that had extensive experience with opioids and MI. Another poster, Judy, reported opioids were part of her sucessful treatment in halting cutting/SI. She reported significant MI but was very functional and successful in life. Treatment with opioids for many years did not yield negative consequences.
Posted by garylee on May 12, 2008, at 1:41:24
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by shellie on June 5, 2000, at 16:38:20
to fp. I never said I take it infrequently. Sometimes I'll take for a week every day. But still never more any day than 1/2 pill once. So it is not just a once in a while thing--its just a half a pill per day limit. Does the frequency matter if the dose is the same each time? A doctor gave me 120 pills-- 120 pills is enough for 1/2 pill for almost a year. Plus I have 60 more from my gastroendronolgist who doesn't seem concerned about addition (he doesn't know I take it for depression.) It seems like pretty much everyone agrees with my docs. shellie
Shellie. Hi there and hope you are (relatively!) well...Found this old post of your's. I am about to embark on my first 'proper' opiate trial. Tramadol does help and Subetex helped massively but the consipation was too much, lol, and it also faded out after around four weeks...
I have 10/325 Hyrodcodone tablets on order and generally have a very high tollerance to all meds/substances, so would like to ask your advice on what dosage I should start on?
Also, what diagnosis are you? I'm Bipolar NOS, Dopaminergics and Opiates seem the only group of meds that have helped significantly...
Thanks, Gary
Posted by undopaminergic on May 15, 2008, at 12:51:58
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by garylee on May 12, 2008, at 1:41:24
>
> I am about to embark on my first 'proper' opiate trial. Tramadol does help and Subetex helped massively but the consipation was too much, lol, and it also faded out after around four weeks...
>
> I have 10/325 Hyrodcodone tablets on order and generally have a very high tollerance to all meds/substances, so would like to ask your advice on what dosage I should start on?
>
> Also, what diagnosis are you? I'm Bipolar NOS, Dopaminergics and Opiates seem the only group of meds that have helped significantly...
>Consider adding some memantine also. There are fairly strong indications that it helps prevent tolerance to dopaminergics and opiates, and furthermore, it has antidepressive and stimulant-like qualities of its own.
Posted by bulldog2 on May 16, 2008, at 17:51:28
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by garylee on May 12, 2008, at 1:41:24
> to fp. I never said I take it infrequently. Sometimes I'll take for a week every day. But still never more any day than 1/2 pill once. So it is not just a once in a while thing--its just a half a pill per day limit. Does the frequency matter if the dose is the same each time? A doctor gave me 120 pills-- 120 pills is enough for 1/2 pill for almost a year. Plus I have 60 more from my gastroendronolgist who doesn't seem concerned about addition (he doesn't know I take it for depression.) It seems like pretty much everyone agrees with my docs. shellie
>
>
> Shellie. Hi there and hope you are (relatively!) well...
>
> Found this old post of your's. I am about to embark on my first 'proper' opiate trial. Tramadol does help and Subetex helped massively but the consipation was too much, lol, and it also faded out after around four weeks...
>
> I have 10/325 Hyrodcodone tablets on order and generally have a very high tollerance to all meds/substances, so would like to ask your advice on what dosage I should start on?
>
> Also, what diagnosis are you? I'm Bipolar NOS, Dopaminergics and Opiates seem the only group of meds that have helped significantly...
>
> Thanks, Gary
>Possibly tramdaol because it hits opiate and ne plus se.
Posted by NewHampshireGuy on May 22, 2008, at 10:02:08
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by bulldog2 on May 16, 2008, at 17:51:28
It is very unfortunate that opiates have such addictive properties and you build a tolerance to them so easily, because YES they very much cut right through depression
I know if I take a Vicodin here or there after my gf has had a surgery, I am in instant heaven and all thoughts and feelings of depression are gone
sure it's because of the high, but I would much rather be "high" the rest of my life then to in a deep depression (which I only believe opiates should be used for, deep untreatable depression)
too bad modern science hasn't developed an syntetic opiate like Vicodin that doesn't build tolerance or cause addictivness
unfortunately, Vicodin and other syntetic opiates a person developes a tolerance VERY fast. one day you can take a vic and feel great, but the next day you will most likely need two to get the same affect (this is assuming a person were to use them on a daily basis)
but it sounds like you are using them "as needed". sure it's a drug and an addictive one, but the question is would you rather have a life of constant depression or be dependant on a drug that makes you feel good in life and able to function.
I will take the feeling good please (fortuntately my untreatable mental conditions aren't dire yet, but if they were it's unfortunate to know that a med that can help drastically won't be prescribed by a doctor in most cases for this use)
Posted by undopaminergic on May 28, 2008, at 6:01:16
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by NewHampshireGuy on May 22, 2008, at 10:02:08
> It is very unfortunate that opiates have such addictive properties and you build a tolerance to them so easily, because YES they very much cut right through depression
>
> I know if I take a Vicodin here or there after my gf has had a surgery, I am in instant heaven and all thoughts and feelings of depression are gone
>
> sure it's because of the high, but I would much rather be "high" the rest of my life then to in a deep depression (which I only believe opiates should be used for, deep untreatable depression)
>
> too bad modern science hasn't developed an syntetic opiate like Vicodin that doesn't build tolerance or cause addictivness
>Buprenorphine may be less prone to cause rapid tolerance and addiction than Vicodin and some other opiates.
Memantine and dextromethorphan (DXM) may also be useful to control tolerance, at least as far as the analgesic effects are concerned. See:
http://www.drgeorgedavidson.com/ebixa_memantine_experience.htm
and: http://www.drgeorgedavidson.com/ebixa_getting_off_methadone.htm
Posted by liliths on May 30, 2008, at 12:34:16
In reply to hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by shellie on June 4, 2000, at 23:41:59
this is such an old thread I have no idea if you're even still here... but that said, I think it's important to know that you are not alone. That small doses of opiates in some people are an excellent anti-depressant without experiencing any of the 'addictive' qualities usually associated with pain killers. There are a lot of studies, articles etc on the web confirming this, yet most pdocs are terrfied to prescribe them.
My pdoc had me on hydrocodone for over 5 years... I never became addicted... never needed to up the dose and even went off or took less at times. Then the state stepped in over my licensing and forced him to take me off them. And my pdoc, being quite pissed off, seemed to blame me for it... I guess I was the easier available target - making a great case of transference LOL
yet they're the only drug which helped... whether it augmented whatever else I was taking or what, I haven't a clue... I only know that battling my depression without them is an arduous task indeed and that using whatever I have left over from dentists etc doesn't help the same way because of the lack of continuity... that and probably the fear and desperation of knowing what is waiting when I run out undermines me and keeps me from accumulating any time to undo my now deeply ingrained depressive habits.
Tramadol didn't have the same effect for me.. I seemed to be able to take amazing amounts of that stuff without feeling anything...
anyway, that this has showed up recently suggests we are still out there and still not being treated properly... we exist. And as it was stated in an earlier post, many AD's are 'addicting' - requiring higher doses and have terrible withdrawals. The criteria should be whatever works and that said, I realize that for many people, they could easily be abused... but not everyone responds that way and it's a damn shame that I sit here contemplating suicide instead of life (it's been about 2 years since I was prescribed it by my pdoc) Circumstances have not been kind, but worse, was that I had no arsenal for coping with them after a while... it became easier to just stay down, since every time I lifted my head, it seemed I'd get hit by something else.
I'm tired now.. I'm old and I'm tired... it's no longer worth it to fight. Yet the fact that I'm still here suggests I must have a very strong will to live, despite my depression.
frustrating... and I'm ridiculous enough to wish for a terminal disease... well at least I still find some humor in my situation... at the moment anyway
BTW, someone mentioned opium tea... can it be purchased online legally? I'm not asking for a URL - I know that's against the rules... just wondering if it would be worth it to try and do a search on my own. I once had some painkillers I ordered from overseas confiscated by customs and I received the empty box with some kind of warning in it... now that was scary!!
Bright Blessings to all
namaste,
liliths> I take a small amount of hydrocodone when I am very depressed (usually premenstrally), or when I feel stomach pain. It always helps with the depression. I have been using it for about two years, and have never increased the dose. My therapist and psydoc think this is very bad. I can't figure out, really why, since I don't seem to crave more and it makes me feel better. (I am also on an MAOI). I don't seem to have addiction tendencies. Does anyone else do this? With or without your doc's blessing?
> Also there was a thread about a year ago about a woman taking an MAOI and tramadol? Does anyone have experience with this? Does anyone's doctor proscribe this? I am tired of depression and I'm tired of trying new meds that are either ineffective or have side effects and the hydrocodone works with no side effects. Whats the problem?
Posted by liliths on May 30, 2008, at 12:39:36
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by undopaminergic on May 28, 2008, at 6:01:16
My pdoc gave me resounding NO when I asked about Buprenorphine a few years back. I assume it's because it's such a heavily regulated drug. There have been posters on this board who used it with great success
Dextromethorphan, if that's the stuff in OTC cough medicine, made me feel REALLY stupid, weird and incredibly nauseous
But I'll look into Memantine, though it's probably too expensive... everything is these days... sigh
namaste,
liliths
>
> Buprenorphine may be less prone to cause rapid tolerance and addiction than Vicodin and some other opiates.
>
> Memantine and dextromethorphan (DXM) may also be useful to control tolerance, at least as far as the analgesic effects are concerned. See:
> http://www.drgeorgedavidson.com/ebixa_memantine_experience.htm
> and: http://www.drgeorgedavidson.com/ebixa_getting_off_methadone.htm
Posted by undopaminergic on June 2, 2008, at 1:39:40
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression » shellie, posted by liliths on May 30, 2008, at 12:34:16
>
> frustrating... and I'm ridiculous enough to wish for a terminal disease... well at least I still find some humor in my situation... at the moment anyway
>Maybe you could just find some chronic back or neck pain, etc. to complain about, and go to some other doctor than your pdoc?
> BTW, someone mentioned opium tea... can it be purchased online legally?
>Maybe. I haven't checked.
How about ordering opium poppy seeds, growing them, and harvesting the opium?
Posted by aminated on June 2, 2008, at 17:22:33
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by undopaminergic on June 2, 2008, at 1:39:40
I am currently on 8 mg bid of buprenorphine (Subutex). Like Vicodin and most other weak-ish opiates, it's really not doing the job on my bipolar depression. Morphine worked well at 90 mg bid, but that was a different doc in a faraway state. Anybody know about BUP doses (I've read of people taking less than 1 mg daily for depression with success) enough to tell me: am I on too HIGH a dose, not too low? I don't even have a reliable way of cutting tabs (sublingual) up into sub-1 mg doses. I think my doc put me on 8 mg because it is roughly equipotent to the dose of morphine I was on.
Posted by liliths on June 3, 2008, at 11:19:48
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by undopaminergic on June 2, 2008, at 1:39:40
thank you for your reply
> Maybe you could just find some chronic back or neck pain, etc. to complain about, and go to some other doctor than your pdoc?
>One of the clouds I currently live under is that in admitting my depression, the state decided I needed to be 'monitored' in order for me to be licensed as a massage therapist. Florida is the ONLY state in this country that considers depression a potentially 'public menace' and one of the conditions of the contract is that I have to submit ALL prescriptions written.
Interestingly, depression carries a 5 year contract, whereas any chronic pain condition means monitoring forever! So I have to be careful... I also doubt I could get a doctor to willingly write me a monthly prescription... pain killers are notoriously under prescribed and feared... I actually do have legitimate conditions but deliberately downplay them.
> How about ordering opium poppy seeds, growing them, and harvesting the opium?
That might be worth a try, though I'm not the best for growing things LOL I don't even know if opium would give me what I need... but that said, I may look into it just for the pleasure to trying to get something to live :)
thanks again for posting to me
namaste,
liliths
Posted by undopaminergic on June 3, 2008, at 13:26:07
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by aminated on June 2, 2008, at 17:22:33
> I am currently on 8 mg bid of buprenorphine (Subutex). Like Vicodin and most other weak-ish opiates, it's really not doing the job on my bipolar depression. Morphine worked well at 90 mg bid, but that was a different doc in a faraway state. Anybody know about BUP doses (I've read of people taking less than 1 mg daily for depression with success) enough to tell me: am I on too HIGH a dose, not too low?
>I would be concerned about that as well. I consider it a definite possiblity.
> I don't even have a reliable way of cutting tabs (sublingual) up into sub-1 mg doses.
>Dissolving the tablet in water may allow more accurate dosing. However, dividing the tablet into four quarters would be a start, as you would not want to reduce your dose abruptly to 1 mg or less anyway, due to withdrawal reactions.
Once you've reduced your daily consumption to a certain point, you may ask to switch to the 2 mg strength of Subutex. Some people successfully using buprenorphine as an antidepressant have used 3 mg or slightly more, so you don't necessarily need to go down as low as 1 mg.
Also, unless you're already using a stimulant, I would suggest the addition of some methylphenidate, as it may enhance your response to buprenorhpine.
Posted by GregS on June 7, 2008, at 22:37:34
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by undopaminergic on June 2, 2008, at 1:39:40
Your problem is not just hypothetical for me. I've had well over the average in experiencing those with depression and what these people use for it.
After a fair amount of experience, I look at your situation this way.
Let's say,someone tells me that two margaritas always works whenever he's feeling down. He may feel down once every two week, but lately its more like every three or four day and the two drinks still work great. That person may not have developed an addiction to alcohol but they probably have a dependency to margaritas. Now dependencies aren't necessarily all bad. Its what happens when some solution works too well. If the dependency is chocolate, people tend to get become obese. I the dependency is an opiate, people tend to get dreamy, sometimes obnoxious and indifferent. A majority of people might think that the effects of the medicine are too steep.Medically opiates are not an antidepressant, they are depressants. If people uses them regularly, these people my be free of pain but often they don't function like normal human beings. A trip to a methadone clinic or a chronic pain clinic will demonstrate this point to an extreme. With occasional use a person would be more less likely to buy the groceries, make a meal, wash the clothes,shave their face, do homework, impress the boss,safely cross a street and on and on. The behavior really isn't just a side effect it is how the medicine works. If I were to wake up the next morning I probably see more consequences to be unhappy about. See another person's point of view. Some might consider this normal behavior.
So if, for me, I really wanted to be safe about the whole ideaof the controlled use of a medicine( and I personally do). I might reassure to myself and others by trying another class of medication. At least in that case, I know that I have alternatives if you happen to be out of town and developing your depression in the middle of the night. Emergency rooms are never helpful under these circumstances. Or if you start having an allergic reaction every time you take hydrocodone.
Of course,
Posted by ryno on June 10, 2008, at 18:14:40
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by NewHampshireGuy on May 22, 2008, at 10:02:08
I just wanted to share my thoughts on tramadol for depression. I used tramadol on and off for 3 years, initially for minor back pain.
Tramadol is indeed addictive. It's considered less habit forming than normal opiates, I think that's due to tramadol inducing less euphoria than normal opiates. I know from personal experience that tolerance builds just as fast as other opiates and you will get serious withdrawal symptoms from abrupt cessasion. I've withdrawn from both oxycodone and tramadol, with oxy I experienced more physical withdrawal symptoms(ie. nausea, fatigue, etc.), but the tramadol sets off a depression that lasts months.
It works for depression, but any drug that is euphoric eliminates depression. I read somewhere Tramadol is known to be a serotonin reuptake inhibitor.
I'm not saying this to talk anyone out of trying it, just wanted to share my experience with it.
--Ryan
Posted by aminated on December 2, 2008, at 16:18:13
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by GregS on June 7, 2008, at 22:37:34
Hi all,
I posted in June that I was on 8mg/day of Subutex (buprenorphine). I've lowered it to 4mg/day in two doses (2mg upon waking and again at midday). It's still working well, but it makes my hands, feet, (everywhere else) sweat, along with a subjective sense of being very uncomfortably hot, esp. following physical activity, even in a very cool environment. A slice of fresh ginger about the size of a nickel or a 1-euro coin, taken with water before breakfast daily, has mostly eliminated this problem.
Anybody else out there had this problem with opioids, esp. BUP? benadryl(yuck, makes me too spacey) helps, but I'm still made very uncomfortable/embarrassed by the sweating. Any ideas/info (my pdoc doesn't know much about opioids, another doc prescribes the BUP) would be MUCH appreciated.Cheers,
Matt
Posted by Sigismund on December 3, 2008, at 16:48:44
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by aminated on December 2, 2008, at 16:18:13
>it makes my hands, feet, (everywhere else) sweat, along with a subjective sense of being very uncomfortably hot, esp. following physical activity, even in a very cool environment.
This is standard with opiates I think. Certainly it is with methadone.
There may be some connection with the warm opiate feel?
>A slice of fresh ginger about the size of a nickel or a 1-euro coin, taken with water before breakfast daily, has mostly eliminated this problem.I've never heard of that. Very interesting. I wonder why it is so? Something to do with the anti-inflammatory effect of ginger?
>Anybody else out there had this problem with opioids, esp. BUP?No experience with bupe.
Posted by glennb on December 4, 2008, at 16:30:47
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by aminated on December 2, 2008, at 16:18:13
I've been experimenting with oxycodone, 5-10mg. I've been mostly bedridden, with lots of 'psychic' pain and hopelessness and immense frustration. The oxycodone is great relief for the 'psychic' pain (where the benzos, stimulants are not for me) and though I get it's a dangerous drug I wish I had a steady supply of it. I've also found on less depressive days, that even 5mg has been enough to break the grips of depression and let me get out of bed and get going. I'm interested in anyone else's experience on oxycodone or the other opiate's as well as well as info on any pdocs that will prescribe them for depression. good luck.
Posted by cactus on December 5, 2008, at 20:08:25
In reply to Re: hydrocodone or tramadol for depression, posted by glennb on December 4, 2008, at 16:30:47
I have had quite a bit of dental work done this year which resulted in being prescribe oxycodone on numerous occasions. I don't like opiates/painkillers at all because they make me so sick, but oxycodone was amazing. I found it really surprising because not only was it the only thing that stopped the pain from having jaw bone cut out, it made me feel normal. Not high, just normal. Tramal also dose this too but not anywhere near what oxycodone did for me.
My GP prescribed it because my dentist gave me 4 ibuprofen tabs after he realised that he couldn't get all of my tooth out and bone needed to come out too and I had to wait 1 week to see a facial specialist to have the procedure finished. Luckily I had a routine appointment with my GP 2 hours later, "thanks the universe for that one" and she was horrified. I discussed what the oxycodone did for me when I went to get another script and she said it's quite normal for depressed patients to find relief from opiates but wouldn't prescribe them for anything but pain and she told me that this was the last script. I don't see a pdoc at this point in my life, but I think you would be lucky to get opiates from one for depression. They know they work, it's just the prescribing laws that stop them. You might get tramal but unless you have an opiate addiction I think you'll find it hard to get anything other than methadone or subutex/buprenorphine, which apparently works quite well for some people with TRD.
Basically, unless you have some chronic pain ailment or are under going chemo, your chances are next to nothing because they are so addictive. They have very short half lives which feed the need for more and higher dosing. Some come in slow release tabs, but I found the normal oxycodone much better.
Do be careful, they can turn on you so quickly you haven't even realised until it's too late. I saw quite a few friends over the years go down that path on heroin, I know that's an extreme example but it's still a similar drug with the exact same outcome at the end of the day. Almost all of my old friends are still on buprenorphine years later and when their GP lowers the dose they go back to heroin and the cycle continues, so they end up getting their original buprenorphine dose so they can function.
Talk to your pdoc or doc for the bigger picture here, you might be entitled for a low dose buprenorphine trial, but never mix tramal with AD's, some combo's can be fatal. That is if you are on or have tried any other meds first. I don't know what your history is but opiates are definitely not a good choice for 1st, 2nd or 3rd line of treatment. Good luck, Peace C
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