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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Bob on May 23, 2008, at 22:16:52
Is Zyprexa widely used on a continual basis by many people here? For some reason I get the feeling that it is more commonly used on an intermittent as needed basis these days due to the diabetes, sedation, and weight issues.
If there are people here using it continually, are there any measures one can take to fight these drawbacks? Also, what exactly does this med do for people? I know it's an AAP, but it seems to be for other things like as an augmentation for AP's etc.
Posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2008, at 23:25:09
In reply to Zyprexa?, posted by Bob on May 23, 2008, at 22:16:52
I've seen others post that it is good to stop suicidal thoughts very quickly. And some do take it as needed when they are in bad shape. Sorry no personal experience. Love Phillipa
Posted by Bob on May 24, 2008, at 12:48:29
In reply to Re: Zyprexa? » Bob, posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2008, at 23:25:09
> I've seen others post that it is good to stop suicidal thoughts very quickly. And some do take it as needed when they are in bad shape. Sorry no personal experience. Love Phillipa
I'm wondering if anyone is currently augmenting a cocktail with Zyprexa and whether they've been doing so for any extended length of time.
Posted by yxibow on May 24, 2008, at 14:55:42
In reply to Zyprexa?, posted by Bob on May 23, 2008, at 22:16:52
> Is Zyprexa widely used on a continual basis by many people here? For some reason I get the feeling that it is more commonly used on an intermittent as needed basis these days due to the diabetes, sedation, and weight issues.
>
> If there are people here using it continually, are there any measures one can take to fight these drawbacks? Also, what exactly does this med do for people? I know it's an AAP, but it seems to be for other things like as an augmentation for AP's etc.
atypicals, or any neuroleptic, with the exception of Reglan (Metoclopramide) for anti-emesis are usually -NOT- taken on an as-is basis unless one is already taking an established dose and needs to adjust occasionally. For acute mania episodes, sometimes its only taken for a period of months. But abruptly starting and stopping and starting APs can cause multiple WDs, withdrawal dyskinesias and multiple IDs, initial dyskinesias.
Yes, some more simple health systems still rely on the old "Vitamin H" (haldol) or similar agents in hospitals, or depot injections, mostly for clients who are at a risk to themselves and others (a fraction of people) and are not taking their medication. But that is a time release.Fighting the drawbacks of APs are a hard thing to do, I know. I used to do a lot of exercise but with a lot of things going and shifting in my life I haven't. I should just go around the block though or jog a little. Low impact things too -- bicycling and swimming are activities.
Ultimately if there is a large weight gain and a diabetes fasting glucose test shows some activity, another one has to be substituted if it is necessary. Some people have no problems with Zyprexa, some none with Seroquel, as for the diabetes issue.
It can be a non starter. But using intermittently will still produce gain anyhow, just a lot of other problems. Sedation is always there with a lot of the atypicals. Non medical interventions can be taken to minimize this as much as one can do as I said.
One thing that is important if exercise is not done regularly, is to see how much one is actually eating in the day. I've tried to do that --- as a vegetarian my problem is that a lot of things have carbohydrates so I have to keep that in check and ratio. Also, just sheer calories will change things.Its unclear as a chicken and egg thing but the weight gain can be due for both reasons, lipid changes and simply being much more hungry, very slowly, without attempting to pull back from the table. Its not one's fault. And this can be said with Remeron and similar agents too.
Basically you would approximate how many calories required to keep an average sedate person from staying their same weight, remove a few hundred, and compensate a little more for the medicine and then see how much you're eating in the day and try to stay in that area.
hope that helps
Posted by Bob on May 24, 2008, at 16:56:44
In reply to Re: Zyprexa? » Bob, posted by yxibow on May 24, 2008, at 14:55:42
But abruptly starting and stopping and starting APs can cause multiple WDs, withdrawal dyskinesias and multiple IDs, initial dyskinesias.
>What are "WD's, dyskinesias, and ID's"?
Thanks for that informative response. It was really helpful. Did you say that you are currently taking an AAP?
Posted by bleauberry on May 25, 2008, at 18:28:09
In reply to Zyprexa?, posted by Bob on May 23, 2008, at 22:16:52
I used 5mg zyprexa for 8 years, added to 20mg prozac. Intermittent use does happen. Some people can get 3 to 7 days of benefit out of one dose. But that is generally not the way it is done. It is usually taken for months or years. On an as-needed basis, I would probably see it good for a one-night insomnia thing, or when in a severe panic with no benzo handy. Good to just totally unwind a severe agitation thing and just chill/zone out. I remember having xanax withdrawal panic attacks and zyprexa stopped them dead in their tracks.
Sedation becomes less over time. After a few years I actually needed Lunesta sometimes to help me sleep, despite the zyprexa.
I believe the weight gain and diabetes stuff can be countered with lifestyle changes. Heavy on proteins, light on carbs, very light on sugars, and non-impact calorie burning excercise daily. Diabetics on medications reduce or eliminate their meds this way, and the more successful weight loss plans work this way.
> Is Zyprexa widely used on a continual basis by many people here? For some reason I get the feeling that it is more commonly used on an intermittent as needed basis these days due to the diabetes, sedation, and weight issues.
AAPs like Zyprexa are handed out these days like candy for a wide range of things, including bipolar mood stabilizer, rapid anti-mania, insomnia, anxiety, depression, potentiator of an antidepressant, antidepressant side effect reducer (insomnia, anxiety, sexual), and of course psychosis.
I've tried several of the AAPs and to me Zyprexa was by far the most unique and best. I was skinny at 138 pounds to begin with so didn't mind when I ended up at 145-148. After 8 years, I did not have glucose or diabetes issues. I purposely kept the ceiling of my dose at 5mg the whole time, and that alone was probably the biggest weapon in avoiding AAP risks. I personally think docs push doses way too high with AAPs, especially since in most cases there isn't even any psychosis involved.
>
> If there are people here using it continually, are there any measures one can take to fight these drawbacks? Also, what exactly does this med do for people? I know it's an AAP, but it seems to be for other things like as an augmentation for AP's etc.
Posted by Bob on May 26, 2008, at 12:20:51
In reply to Re: Zyprexa?, posted by bleauberry on May 25, 2008, at 18:28:09
> I used 5mg zyprexa for 8 years, added to 20mg prozac. Intermittent use does happen. Some people can get 3 to 7 days of benefit out of one dose. But that is generally not the way it is done. It is usually taken for months or years. On an as-needed basis, I would probably see it good for a one-night insomnia thing, or when in a severe panic with no benzo handy. Good to just totally unwind a severe agitation thing and just chill/zone out. I remember having xanax withdrawal panic attacks and zyprexa stopped them dead in their tracks.
>
> Sedation becomes less over time. After a few years I actually needed Lunesta sometimes to help me sleep, despite the zyprexa.
>
> I believe the weight gain and diabetes stuff can be countered with lifestyle changes. Heavy on proteins, light on carbs, very light on sugars, and non-impact calorie burning excercise daily. Diabetics on medications reduce or eliminate their meds this way, and the more successful weight loss plans work this way.
>
> > Is Zyprexa widely used on a continual basis by many people here? For some reason I get the feeling that it is more commonly used on an intermittent as needed basis these days due to the diabetes, sedation, and weight issues.
>
> AAPs like Zyprexa are handed out these days like candy for a wide range of things, including bipolar mood stabilizer, rapid anti-mania, insomnia, anxiety, depression, potentiator of an antidepressant, antidepressant side effect reducer (insomnia, anxiety, sexual), and of course psychosis.
>
> I've tried several of the AAPs and to me Zyprexa was by far the most unique and best. I was skinny at 138 pounds to begin with so didn't mind when I ended up at 145-148. After 8 years, I did not have glucose or diabetes issues. I purposely kept the ceiling of my dose at 5mg the whole time, and that alone was probably the biggest weapon in avoiding AAP risks. I personally think docs push doses way too high with AAPs, especially since in most cases there isn't even any psychosis involved.
>
>
> >
> > If there are people here using it continually, are there any measures one can take to fight these drawbacks? Also, what exactly does this med do for people? I know it's an AAP, but it seems to be for other things like as an augmentation for AP's etc.
>
>Thanks for that response.
Posted by B2chica on May 27, 2008, at 8:50:07
In reply to Re: Zyprexa? » bleauberry, posted by Bob on May 26, 2008, at 12:20:51
zyprexa's been my wonder drug.
but right now with my life/little one i can't handle the morning groggies and weight issues, so i'm trying another.but if it doens't work i'll go back and be fat and happy.
i've used it off and on (various reasons) for about 4 years.b2c.
Posted by yxibow on May 29, 2008, at 4:43:50
In reply to Re: Zyprexa? » yxibow, posted by Bob on May 24, 2008, at 16:56:44
>
> But abruptly starting and stopping and starting APs can cause multiple WDs, withdrawal dyskinesias and multiple IDs, initial dyskinesias.
> >
>
> What are "WD's, dyskinesias, and ID's"?
>
> Thanks for that informative response. It was really helpful. Did you say that you are currently taking an AAP?
Dyskinesias are bodily motions caused by either a organic (i.e. Parkinsons, etc.) or iatrogenic (medicine induced, mostly APs but also rarely other medications and street drugs)Yes, I am still taking Seroquel.
ID, is initial dyskinesia, which can be caused by the startup of a medication -- there are many kinds and I don't want to frighten you too much, high potency typicals can cause in some people oculogyric issues (literally eyes moving) -- but mostly intense EPS (fancy word for side effects) that is usually resolved by Benadryl or the like. They are not Tardive syndromes.
WD, withdrawal dyskinesias, typically happen when a AP is dropped without tapering off because of complexities in how they work on dopamine, among other reasons I'm sure someone can explain better.
The answer is, don't drop one cold unless there is an absolute reason verified by a doctor or the extraordinarily rare NMS syndrome from all APs
(including vast hypothermia and disorientation -- basically if one had serotonin syndrome or NMS they actually might not even know it until it became obvious, these are hospital cases -- anyhow, not to end on a sour note, they are rare)
I hope that helps-- tidings
Posted by Zyprexa on May 29, 2008, at 16:57:47
In reply to Zyprexa?, posted by Bob on May 23, 2008, at 22:16:52
I take it still. 10 years now. For the diabetes I take metformin, somnilance I take caffine and wellbutrin sr. I've also started taking perphenazine with it so I can keep the dose down along with diabetes. I take 10mg zyprexa and losing weight. I think its the metformin that helps weight along with thyroid med.
I took abilfy for 6 months and totaly f*ed up my siyke. It took one year of higher doses of zyprexa and eventualy adding perphenzine, getting me back to normal. I still taking as much zyprexa as before and added perphenazine.
Perphenazine seems to be the best substitute for zyprexa, but I still don't know what would hapen if I came all the way off the zyprexa. A little scared of that.
Posted by Bob on May 29, 2008, at 17:09:15
In reply to Re: Zyprexa?, posted by Zyprexa on May 29, 2008, at 16:57:47
> I take it still. 10 years now. For the diabetes I take metformin, somnilance I take caffine and wellbutrin sr. I've also started taking perphenazine with it so I can keep the dose down along with diabetes. I take 10mg zyprexa and losing weight. I think its the metformin that helps weight along with thyroid med.
>
> I took abilfy for 6 months and totaly f*ed up my siyke. It took one year of higher doses of zyprexa and eventualy adding perphenzine, getting me back to normal. I still taking as much zyprexa as before and added perphenazine.
>
> Perphenazine seems to be the best substitute for zyprexa, but I still don't know what would hapen if I came all the way off the zyprexa. A little scared of that.You got diabetes from the Zyprexa, or for some other reason?
What exactly did Abilify do to you?
Posted by Zyprexa on May 29, 2008, at 17:32:21
In reply to Re: Zyprexa? » Zyprexa, posted by Bob on May 29, 2008, at 17:09:15
I put on weight with zyprexa. When I started zyprexa in 98, I was 150 lbs, 5'10". Yes very light, so it was a good side-effect in the beginning. Now I'm 200 lbs. My ideal would be 170-180. I got diabetes 2 years ago. When I weighed 185, was drinking 3 vodcas a day (1.5 oz) and eating high fat foods, and, taking geodon at a high dose, zyprexa at a much lower dose that usual. I did notice that at higher doses of zyprexa the diabetes was more out of control, like when I took 20mg instead of 10mg. The abilify was very good at lowering the blood sugars so much that I was eating all the time. Curently I drink 2 vodcas a day, 10mg zyprexa and none of the other meds. Diabetes is easy to control with a little medicine.
Abilify gave me panic attacks, anxiety, dizzyness and fear of the out side world. Thought that people were talking to me through the walls of appartment all the time, and I could not sleep at all. Stayed awake latter and latter every night till I was up at 12pm next day. So tired at work all day that I could not work and constantly thought people were talking about me.
This is the end of the thread.
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