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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by FredPotter on May 22, 2008, at 21:26:19
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... » FredPotter, posted by ace on May 21, 2008, at 23:45:10
Oooo! Does mean I can drink vast quantities of beer? Thanks for the info Ace. I'll try the water. Can't it be dangerous in large quantities though? Fred
Posted by ace on May 22, 2008, at 23:53:14
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by Fivefires on May 22, 2008, at 2:49:35
> Ace
>
> Did I discouraged you from contacting me?No. not at all! I am all over the place now, so busy, loosing track of days!
I will get back to your mail ASAP- and I am sorry I did overlook it.
I am away from home now, so have limited net access, but I will absolutely answer....!
Get back real soon!
Ace
Posted by ace on May 22, 2008, at 23:56:49
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... » ace, posted by FredPotter on May 22, 2008, at 21:26:19
> Oooo! Does mean I can drink vast quantities of beer?
Ummmm....I wouldn't advise that!!!!
Thanks for the info Ace. I'll try the water. Can't it be dangerous in large quantities though?No probs Fred! It EXTREMELY large quantities it can pose risks, but I am talking about extreme amounts!!!!
Check it out on the web....just google "water and weight loss" I lost weight so easy! I was on Nardil, Zyprexa, and Remeron- all weight gainers big time! But the water helped so much....
Mother Nature does look after us!
Cheers Fred!
Ace:)
Fred
Posted by Phoenix1 on May 23, 2008, at 12:24:38
In reply to Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by ace on May 5, 2008, at 23:36:34
Hi Ace,
I've read a lot of your Nardil posts from the archives, and I really respect your opinions. I need your advice please. I failed to respond to over a dozen AD's until I tried Nardil. Then it was like a light bulb turned on and the depression and anxiety literally melted away. Everything was great for 7 months at 90mg.
Then, out of the blue, I developed severe orthostatic hypotension which quickly turned into fainting spells. Pdoc discontinued Nardil over 7 days. 1 day after my last nardil dose, I woke up blind, paralyzed, and confused. Was diagnosed with PRES, a reversible swelling of the back of the brain caused by blood pressure fluctuation.
I'm getting better neurologically now, but my depression has returned, and my pdoc will not prescribe Nardil for me ever again. He thinks it caused the PRES. I believe the quick withdrawal caused the PRES.
In any event, I want to self-treat myself with Nardil. I can easily get my hands on the meds. What are your thoughts on this? I just feel like life isn't worth living with my current level of depression, so my options are to take the Nardil at considerable risk, or to just end everything...
> Hey all......
>
> I havent been around a lot, but used to be preety regular here. I just want to repeat again my sentiments on Nardil, in the hope that this phenomenal medication could help someone in the way it helped myself.....
>
> I have been on Nardil around 7 years now. It has worked amazingly. The only time I have had problems is when I have not done the correct thing with regards to the drug.
>
> I strongly recommend the following....
>
> 1. Take Nardil at the same time(s) each day
> 2. Once you are on the right dose - STAY THERE!
> Do not go down, despite what so many uninformed say.
> 3. Do NOT STRESS about the diet! It is greatly overstated. I eat anything anytime, with no regards for the diet- I don't espouse that, but that's what I do- with no problem.
>
> IF I do have a problem, I use Nifedipine or Thorazine. Going to the hospital, I do NOT recommend, as nurses and doctors are not trained about MAOI's these days to any substanial degree.
>
>
>
> In closing, Nardil has changed my life. For so long, I had problems walking two feet out of my house without debilitating anxiety. For so long I suffered wretching depression. Nardil truly set me free to a very very high degree.
>
> When these problems have recurred at a high level, It has always been myself to blame! Not taking the drug at regular intervals...'forgetting' doses, etc etc
>
> I have also got severe OCD- Nardil DID help with this too, but, for the great part, Seroquel relieves me of these symptoms. Nardil wiped out my social phobia.
>
> One last thing- Nardil can very often create what I call a 'healthy euphoria". At such times, I would recommend one be vigilant to how much one spends, how one behaves.
>
> I used to be so socially phobic, I could not eat in front of others, I could not wear certain clothes for fear someone may disapprove, I could not approach the opposite sex.
>
> After 3 months on Nardil I was wearing anything I like, walking around, at times, with died hair and shirt off, asking literally 10 girls out on a date every day. It made, and makes me feel, happy to be alive. It seemed to also provide a sense of love for others- at times I would purposely 'bump' into others just so I could have the chance to smile, say 'sorry!
>
> I am now about to embark on my residency, with the view to being a psychiatrist (this still takes much time (and exams!)). When that time comes, I will not be on the drug. Without Nardil I don't think I would be at this level in my life.
>
> I truly hopes this might help someone....
>
> God Bless you All!
>
> Ace....
Posted by Fivefires on May 23, 2008, at 13:58:48
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... » Fivefires, posted by ace on May 22, 2008, at 23:53:14
Ace ... just lost three paragraph post.
Think in withdrawal ... agitation, rapid heart beat, labored breathing like long drawn out hyperventilating, lost weight/fluids.
No help from medical resources. o_o
Can't re-type all again now as too ill.
Will do tho'.
tks, 5f
Posted by undopaminergic on May 23, 2008, at 16:29:39
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... » FredPotter, posted by ace on May 21, 2008, at 23:45:10
> > After 2 years I am still fat around the middle. What are the agents for weight loss people mention?
>
>
> Hi mate! Topamax seems to work for a lot of people.
>Another anticonvulsant that might work is zonisamide. The anti-diabetic agent metformin can also be useful.
> In addition, Clonidine too.
I would favour guanfacine over clonidine, if possible, as clondidine tends to be rather sedating.
Posted by undopaminergic on May 24, 2008, at 14:39:24
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... » ace, posted by Phoenix1 on May 23, 2008, at 12:24:38
>
> I've read a lot of your Nardil posts from the archives, and I really respect your opinions. I need your advice please. I failed to respond to over a dozen AD's until I tried Nardil. Then it was like a light bulb turned on and the depression and anxiety literally melted away. Everything was great for 7 months at 90mg.
>
> Then, out of the blue, I developed severe orthostatic hypotension which quickly turned into fainting spells. Pdoc discontinued Nardil over 7 days. 1 day after my last nardil dose, I woke up blind, paralyzed, and confused. Was diagnosed with PRES, a reversible swelling of the back of the brain caused by blood pressure fluctuation.
>
> I'm getting better neurologically now, but my depression has returned, and my pdoc will not prescribe Nardil for me ever again. He thinks it caused the PRES. I believe the quick withdrawal caused the PRES.
>The fluctuations of blood pressure were the problem that caused PRES. A rapid elevation of blood pressure following Nardil discontinuation may have been the problem.
Taking methylphenidate with Nardil may help stabilise blood pressure, and also reduce tyramine sensitivity. However, the combination needs to be initiated with low doses and close monitoring of the blood pressure response.
Posted by simon79 on May 24, 2008, at 22:43:28
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... » Simon79, posted by ace on May 19, 2008, at 1:59:09
Dear Ace,
Thanks for responding to my posts
Your answers hit the nail right on the head they were excellent
I'm playing it safe and I'm going to continue to titrate up very slowly for reasons I won't go into right now. 2 weeks and i get to 45 yay! then i might actually feel something, although 60 is the one i'm really looking forward to, from what i've read 75 is when the side effects start to kick in a bit harder
Anyway, I'll let u know when the nardil kicks in, fingers cross (both hands)
Thanks for answering all my newbie nardil
questions
My psych wants me to stop clonazempam once the nardil kicks in, however I will oppose this as my anxiety level is 'severe'.. It's about as bad as you can get, and I need all the help I need right now
Best wishes
Simon79
Posted by ace on May 25, 2008, at 23:04:07
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by Fivefires on May 22, 2008, at 2:49:35
> Ace
>
> Did I discouraged you from contacting me?
>
> Was it because I said ...
>
> Thing is, I think I felt where you were going w/ this whole thing. There was a tapping into my own real feelings which made me recall the strong and assertive person I once was. Something was definitely happening.
>
> ?
>
> If you have a change of heart, pls contact.
>
> I still have A LOT of interest in 'what it was that was happening and there is the possibility of my re-trying inpatient. I may be unable to correspond for a while, so, hope you'll see and write.
>
> 5f
Hey there:) I am back- can you tell me which exact post You want me to answer? I looked above but could not locate it.... Or, if you have the energy, please ask again....Sorry for this confusion!
Ace:)
Posted by ace on May 25, 2008, at 23:06:40
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by Fivefires on May 23, 2008, at 13:58:48
> Ace ... just lost three paragraph post.
>
> Think in withdrawal ... agitation, rapid heart beat, labored breathing like long drawn out hyperventilating, lost weight/fluids.This is not good at all- However, and I do apologize, I have lost track of where we were at.
Is it possible, when you feel a little better, to let me know what is happening...I could not detect it from your prior posts...
Hang in there,
Ace
> No help from medical resources. o_o
>
> Can't re-type all again now as too ill.
>
> Will do tho'.
>
> tks, 5f
Posted by ace on May 25, 2008, at 23:09:24
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by undopaminergic on May 24, 2008, at 14:39:24
> >
> > I've read a lot of your Nardil posts from the archives, and I really respect your opinions. I need your advice please. I failed to respond to over a dozen AD's until I tried Nardil. Then it was like a light bulb turned on and the depression and anxiety literally melted away. Everything was great for 7 months at 90mg.
> >
> > Then, out of the blue, I developed severe orthostatic hypotension which quickly turned into fainting spells. Pdoc discontinued Nardil over 7 days. 1 day after my last nardil dose, I woke up blind, paralyzed, and confused. Was diagnosed with PRES, a reversible swelling of the back of the brain caused by blood pressure fluctuation.
> >
> > I'm getting better neurologically now, but my depression has returned, and my pdoc will not prescribe Nardil for me ever again. He thinks it caused the PRES. I believe the quick withdrawal caused the PRES.
> >
>
Hi there, was this adressed to me? Or anyone in general...I am not sure here...brain is not running too well today!
Ace
Posted by ace on May 25, 2008, at 23:19:14
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by simon79 on May 24, 2008, at 22:43:28
> Dear Ace,
> Thanks for responding to my postsNot a problem at all!
> Your answers hit the nail right on the head they were excellent
> I'm playing it safe and I'm going to continue to titrate up very slowly for reasons I won't go into right now. 2 weeks and i get to 45 yay! then i might actually feel something, although 60 is the one i'm really looking forward to, from what i've read 75 is when the side effects start to kick in a bit harderDo what feels best with you me thinks! If and when the s/effects come, I would remember you always have avenues in which to lessen, or abolish, those s/effects....I certainly would 'grit it out' too long with any s/effect!
> Anyway, I'll let u know when the nardil kicks in, fingers cross (both hands)
I feel very much it will...try and keep a positive mindset about it all...read all the success stories on it...For some reason, I never had any doubt Nardil was going to be such a great medication for me.
> Thanks for answering all my newbie nardil
> questionsNo probs at all...!
> My psych wants me to stop clonazempam once the nardil kicks in, however I will oppose this as my anxiety level is 'severe'.. It's about as bad as you can get, and I need all the help I need right now
The Nardil may provide anxiolytic relief, to the level where you may feel you don't need it....however, this is hard to say! You must feel as well and as safe as possible but- i think this is the main priority!
Just remeber- Nardil can take quite a while to kick in...please be patient!
All the very best, and here from you soon!
Ace:)
> Best wishes
> Simon79
Posted by Fivefires on May 26, 2008, at 16:28:42
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by simon79 on May 24, 2008, at 22:43:28
Oh wow ... I'm gettin' jealous here!
I got so sick. Never should have been started out on 15mg 3x a day. Just weighed myself and 115, so lost 5 lbs. in past week and a half.
Dang! I wanted to but just couldn't. Doc wouldn't return calls. Did call EMTs one eve as heart racing and they said if we take you to an ER they're just going to send you home o_o.
Happy for you all tho'.
5f
Posted by Fivefires on May 26, 2008, at 16:52:34
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... 03 Fivefires, posted by ace on May 25, 2008, at 23:06:40
I just read my post and I didn't know where we were either Ace!
I forgot I was going to get back to u w/ specifics and now I've forgotten the specifics. Not really. Just 'RIGHT NOW' unable. Still very sickish' if sit here too long. Should have indicated have a condition or thought which I do not and been allowed care inpatient, and, NOT have fallen further into this.
Think bod' should be rid of all Nardil; w/o for 5days.
Wanted to hang on there, but just couldn't do it here alone. Almost thought of getting a hold of an 'exigent form' so cell could be 'way investigated' by police. Instructed by my cell whachamacallit to do the prior.
Am I still talking? Sorry!
I can't communicate very well, yet; ... no pooping since dc'd; maybe some still in me.(?)
U didn't ask for that much info huh?
5f
WTH? Did I already post the following?
ps: Got appt w/ a pdoc outside the county and co-pay can handle, but fear cost of meds will be the block. Am calling ins. 2moro see if can get formulary and costs.
Maybe new doc could help me w/ it. But, well, can't say something want to at this time; cell and pute acting strange. _oo_
good eve & sorry if posted same thing twice and am not going to do anything about it.
5f
Okay ... where did ur name go Ace? I mean this is kind of to all, but thought followed you here and see an 03.
TELL ME YOU ALL SEE THE 03 TOO PLS?????
sh*t
Posted by Fivefires on May 26, 2008, at 17:01:41
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... 03 undopaminergic, posted by ace on May 25, 2008, at 23:09:24
Oh my goodness ... don't know what to say, but so very sorry this happened to you.
When EMTs came here my BP was high. Asked the EMTs (There were a whole bunch of them.) if they knew what serotonin syndrome or neuroleptic malignant syndrome were and none did or seemed interested in looking into it.
Just told me what said above I believe, well I'm not sure now, ... they told me ER wouldn't admit me so why go.
Whoa .. I just was on 45mg 3-4 days, 30mg 3-2 days, then 1mg couple days. Could this be why I'm 'not well' 'cognitively'?
sincere, 5f
Posted by iforgotmypassword on May 27, 2008, at 11:05:30
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... » maoi_wowee, posted by ace on May 6, 2008, at 23:35:35
taking so long to kick in thing...
what exactly causes a drug and an maoi no less, to take so long?
Posted by iforgotmypassword on May 27, 2008, at 12:26:28
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... » clipper40, posted by ace on May 8, 2008, at 23:51:19
humans not established, as there is not enough research...
i don't feel great about that.
Posted by stargazer2 on May 27, 2008, at 20:06:15
In reply to i just do not understand this... » ace, posted by iforgotmypassword on May 27, 2008, at 11:05:30
The change in the original formula is probably the cause of how it now works, including the long drawn out process of getting through many side effects and slow to minimal effectiveness, I too experienced. I seems to works very differently now.
When I took the original Nardil in 1988 or thereabouts, ...it worked in one or two days, with just a feeling of being better.
I'm currently on Nardil, but it took months and it was a long slow process riddled with episodes of hypotension, abdominal gas and little perceptible effects. I added quite a few things to it including an amphetamine (generic Ritalin) and also nortriptyline. I think I also added wellbutrin along the way.
I never thought I would get beyond the BP problems but I did eventually get past that.
It wasn't until I got to 60 mg that I began to improve. I had to stay at 45 for a few months to allow my BP to come up. At its lowest my BP was 60/40. I monitored my BP daily due to the lightheadedness and fainting spells I almost had.
Just a few weeks ago, I cut down to 45 mg since I was on so many other meds for a pulled muscle in my neck and shoulder. I thought cutting back to 45 mg was fine and I didn't put it together until I went to my routine appt with my pdoc and started to admit I was not feeling as well as I had been. Upon admitting that I was at 45 mg, it was obvious that just a decrease in 15 mg was causing me to start to spiral down.
So nevertheless, I think Nardil is working for me, about a year now but it was not without a long involved process of tweaking it before I felt better.
And by the way, I gained 30 pounds too so that is another bad effect that the original Nardil never caused me. I don't remember having any side effects or time to "get used to it" as the Nardil of today seems to require.
it's too bad but I'm at least working again, something I couldn't do for a year and a half before taking Nardil. Too bad I have to be fat to feel normal. It's the price I guess I have to pay.
Stargazer
Posted by undopaminergic on May 28, 2008, at 5:44:18
In reply to Re: i just do not understand this..., posted by stargazer2 on May 27, 2008, at 20:06:15
> The change in the original formula is probably the cause of how it now works, including the long drawn out process of getting through many side effects and slow to minimal effectiveness, I too experienced. I seems to works very differently now.
>
> When I took the original Nardil in 1988 or thereabouts, ...it worked in one or two days, with just a feeling of being better.
>Perhaps it would be more effective to take it sublingually or intranasally? I don't know of anyone who has tried it, but it may improve bioavailability.
> I'm currently on Nardil, but it took months and it was a long slow process riddled with episodes of hypotension, abdominal gas and little perceptible effects. I added quite a few things to it including an amphetamine (generic Ritalin) and also nortriptyline.
>I assume you mean methylphenidate rather than amphetamine. How did that, and nortriptyline, work with Nardil? Did it affect blood pressure? Did it affect appetite or weight?
Posted by SLS on May 28, 2008, at 6:09:13
In reply to Re: i just do not understand this..., posted by undopaminergic on May 28, 2008, at 5:44:18
I do not receive much benefit from Nardil unless I am taking nortriptyline along with it.
I had been a robust responder to Nardil monotherapy up until some overly aggressive doctors got a hold of me in 1990. Long story.
- Scott
Posted by blueboy on May 28, 2008, at 7:52:23
In reply to i just do not understand this... » ace, posted by iforgotmypassword on May 27, 2008, at 11:05:30
> taking so long to kick in thing...
>
> what exactly causes a drug and an maoi no less, to > take so long?Nobody really knows. There is even debate whether the phenomenon exists, i.e. whether various antidepressants actually have a lag time between the time a patient starts taking them and the time they start working (although I think most scientists believe that the phenomenon is real).
It is not only MAOI's, but also most other types of antidepressants and mood stabilizers. Basically, at this point, nobody REALLY understands how or why they work. (MAOI's were developed to treat Parkinson's Disease. Then some researcher happened to notice an unexpected brightening in mood among Parkinson's patients taking the drug.)
Researchers are busily trying to figure it all out, and they know a lot more now than they used to. There is considerable knowledge about the gross effects of antidepressants on neurotransmitters, and even better knowledge about the effects of addictive pleasure-inducing drugs (like nicotine or heroin) on the physical structure of nerves. I think I am correct in saying that a trained scientist with a good electron microscope can now examine a dead person's brain and tell if he was addicted to a certain class of drugs when he died.
They are trying. The human brain is extremely difficult to study for a number of reasons.
Posted by undopaminergic on May 28, 2008, at 11:16:40
In reply to Re: i just do not understand this... » undopaminergic, posted by SLS on May 28, 2008, at 6:09:13
>
> I do not receive much benefit from Nardil unless I am taking nortriptyline along with it.
>Have you made any observations regarding its effects on blood pressure and tyramine sensitivity?
Posted by SLS on May 28, 2008, at 12:04:01
In reply to Re: i just do not understand this..., posted by undopaminergic on May 28, 2008, at 11:16:40
Hi Undopaminergic.
> > I do not receive much benefit from Nardil unless I am taking nortriptyline along with it.
> >
>
> Have you made any observations regarding its effects on blood pressure and tyramine sensitivity?I understand that the tyramine reaction is supposed to be partially blunted by the inhibition of the NE transporter. I haven't performed any blinded trials to confirm this. :-)
Adding nortriptyline to Nardil potentiates the hypotension that Nardil produces. I have fainted a few times because of it. Either drug alone does not produce such an episode for me. I have not taken my blood pressure recently to test what the addition of Deplin has done.
I will say this, though. Some people (perhaps most people) with a depressive disorder display a symptom known as dysautonomia. This is why an unmedicated depressive can experience orthostatic hypotension, dry mouth, constipation, delayed gastric emptying, elevated heart rate, palpitations, and other symptoms that reflect a shifting of autonomic function towards the sympathetic and away from the parasympathetic. The fascinating thing about this phenomenon is that it tends to get worse before it gets better. It is as if one were passing through a zone of some sort. My experience is that while drifting somewhere near the zone, a worsening of the dysautonomia follows a worsening of depression, and a mitigation of these symptoms follows an improvement in depression. I find that Nardil amplifies this phenomenon.
I believe that this is the first time I have written about this phenomenon. I have observed this dysautonomia for many years in myself and have discussed it with several doctors who concur.
- Scott
Posted by ace on May 29, 2008, at 1:01:32
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... 03 Fivefires, posted by Fivefires on May 26, 2008, at 16:52:34
> I just read my post and I didn't know where we were either Ace!
>
> I forgot I was going to get back to u w/ specifics and now I've forgotten the specifics. Not really. Just 'RIGHT NOW' unable. Still very sickish' if sit here too long. Should have indicated have a condition or thought which I do not and been allowed care inpatient, and, NOT have fallen further into this.
>
> Think bod' should be rid of all Nardil; w/o for 5days.
>
> Wanted to hang on there, but just couldn't do it here alone. Almost thought of getting a hold of an 'exigent form' so cell could be 'way investigated' by police. Instructed by my cell whachamacallit to do the prior.
>
> Am I still talking? Sorry!
>
> I can't communicate very well, yet; ... no pooping since dc'd; maybe some still in me.(?)
>
> U didn't ask for that much info huh?
>
> 5f
>
> WTH? Did I already post the following?
>
> ps: Got appt w/ a pdoc outside the county and co-pay can handle, but fear cost of meds will be the block. Am calling ins. 2moro see if can get formulary and costs.
>
> Maybe new doc could help me w/ it. But, well, can't say something want to at this time; cell and pute acting strange. _oo_
>
> good eve & sorry if posted same thing twice and am not going to do anything about it.
>
> 5f
>
> Okay ... where did ur name go Ace? I mean this is kind of to all, but thought followed you here and see an 03.
>
> TELL ME YOU ALL SEE THE 03 TOO PLS?????
>
> sh*t
Hey thanks for the post- I'm really sorry but I still can't make out what exactly is happening...How about we start again from the top....if you can, could you post me a new post containing your comments, feeling, questions, etc etc?
Is that OK?
Cheers:)
Andrew
Posted by 1977julie1977 on May 31, 2008, at 15:43:09
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... 03 Fivefires » Fivefires, posted by ace on May 29, 2008, at 1:01:32
I've been on 45mg nardil for 4 weeks and now 60mg for about a week and its kicking in! Feel calmer and balanced and not depressed. Minor effect on SA too. The bizarre things are that my appetite has DECREASED! so i'll be losing those extra lbs that olanzapine has packed onto me. I'm currently taking 60mg nardil and 5mg olanzapine for treatment resistant depression, and it seems i'm not going to turn into a blob afterall!
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