![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by boltsdraggin on May 24, 2008, at 20:42:23
I have intrusive music in my head. I will emphasize that I don't, and never have, "heard voices". I hear it all the time, sometimes even when I'm sleeping. It does not consist of complete songs, but rather random snippets that play over and over again, until something (completely unidentifiable) will suddenly "change the record". When I'm under stress, naturally the music gets louder. It will pervade anything I try to use to distract my mind. Sometimes, I will have two songs going simultaneously.
The fact that the music is there is not necessarily the distressing fact. It's the fact that I can't control it.
Currently, I'm taking Paxil 40mg and a low dose of Ativan to try to compensate, since I'm a registered nurse and need my mental faculties. However, now it goes and comes. When it's there, sometimes I can redirect it, but not always.
I have had three major head injuries in my life - was whacked with a golf club in left frontal lobe at 11, was run over by a log wagon at 14, and smashed the front of my head into a windshield in auto accident in '99.
Any suggestions?
Posted by Phillipa on May 24, 2008, at 23:59:34
In reply to Intrusive music in my head, posted by boltsdraggin on May 24, 2008, at 20:42:23
Have you had an MRI of the head? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2008, at 0:00:43
In reply to Intrusive music in my head, posted by boltsdraggin on May 24, 2008, at 20:42:23
Oh and welcome to babble so much good advise here and knowledgeable people. Welcome to babble. Love Phillipa
Posted by BGB on May 25, 2008, at 2:47:52
In reply to Intrusive music in my head, posted by boltsdraggin on May 24, 2008, at 20:42:23
I have been having exactly the same problem lately. I haven't had any head trauma but I'm BP I. I'm going to bring it up with my p-doc at my next appointment, but I know what he will say..."that happens to everybody." So frustrating.
Good luck to you! Let us know how everything works out.
Posted by James_Glasgow_UK on May 25, 2008, at 7:20:48
In reply to Re: Intrusive music in my head » boltsdraggin, posted by BGB on May 25, 2008, at 2:47:52
Hi boltsdraggin
It sounds from your medical history that your past injuries you have caused it and I think it would be a good idea as phillipa suggested to get medical help. I think they would probably start off with an EEG and then if that did not show the problem move on to a scan.
It is associated with all sorts of different conditions from OCD to epilespy, I had it for 6 months when I was 19 but I was also very mentally unwell at time with psychotic depression and did not hear voices only the songs going around and around and around.
It was most disconcerting, as you know, as I can never remember the words to songs at the best of times but these were playing crystal clear and when the same one that I was hearing came on the radio and I could compare them and it was word perfect in my head and freaked me out even more.
The brain is a very complex organ and despite me being very depressed at the time the Doctors seemed to just dismiss the problem, when I seemed to think it must have some kind of diagnositc significance. Mind you it was almost 20 years ago now and I am in the UK where the service is not that good.
I hope someone else will have more knowledge on the subject than I do and offer you a more concerete opinion. I dont think you need to worry about being stigmatised by your Doctors and I definitely think you should see one, even if it just for some reassurance.
Take care
James
Posted by nellie7 on May 25, 2008, at 13:00:53
In reply to Intrusive music in my head, posted by boltsdraggin on May 24, 2008, at 20:42:23
Hi,
The same thing happens to me, nonstop. Though it's been going on for many years , I never considered asking about it and don't know how common it is.
I'm sorry you suffered so many head injuries. They are not necessarily connected to hearing the music, though.Take care,
Nellie.
Posted by bulldog2 on May 25, 2008, at 14:17:33
In reply to Intrusive music in my head, posted by boltsdraggin on May 24, 2008, at 20:42:23
> I have intrusive music in my head. I will emphasize that I don't, and never have, "heard voices". I hear it all the time, sometimes even when I'm sleeping. It does not consist of complete songs, but rather random snippets that play over and over again, until something (completely unidentifiable) will suddenly "change the record". When I'm under stress, naturally the music gets louder. It will pervade anything I try to use to distract my mind. Sometimes, I will have two songs going simultaneously.
>
> The fact that the music is there is not necessarily the distressing fact. It's the fact that I can't control it.
>
> Currently, I'm taking Paxil 40mg and a low dose of Ativan to try to compensate, since I'm a registered nurse and need my mental faculties. However, now it goes and comes. When it's there, sometimes I can redirect it, but not always.
>
> I have had three major head injuries in my life - was whacked with a golf club in left frontal lobe at 11, was run over by a log wagon at 14, and smashed the front of my head into a windshield in auto accident in '99.
>
> Any suggestions?Every now and than I will hear my wife call my name out..I ask her what she wants and she says she didn't call me..doesn't happen a lot...but for years I will think someone has called my name out..don't know what causes that
Posted by NewHampshireGuy on May 25, 2008, at 18:58:16
In reply to Intrusive music in my head, posted by boltsdraggin on May 24, 2008, at 20:42:23
I have had non-stop music in my head for about 8 years now. I will wake up in the middle of night in the middle of sleep with some random song I might not have even heard in over 10 years playing in my head. different songs all the time
the intensity of how loud they are in my head coincides with my anxiety. when I am not anxious, I don't hear it as much
I am bipolar NOS
this actually happened to me many years ago and I took Effexor and it "shut" the music off for a couple years.
it then came back after an episode and I couldn't take Effexor again, but Effexor definitely shut it off the first time
honestly the key to my mental health is getting the "music switch" shut back off again so I can sleep, or at least that's my opinion
Posted by boltsdraggin on May 25, 2008, at 20:04:37
In reply to Re: Intrusive music in my head, posted by NewHampshireGuy on May 25, 2008, at 18:58:16
NewHampshireGuy - yes, that is true with me also. It does appear to coincide with my level of anxiety - I tend toward overanxiety a lot. I recently spent time in a psych ward after the anxiety and depression built to such a level that one bright sunny morning I 'snapped'. I was in enough control that I called 911, was taken for eval, then signed for voluntary commitment. That's where I was put on the Paxil and Ativan - it worked well for a week or two, but things are starting again. I took Effexor years ago. I can't remember it having any positive effect on me at the time - maybe it would be time to give it another shot.
I am seeing a p-doc, will bring it up at next visit. All my primary docs - and there have been many - have essentially dismissed this as exactly what someone said, "Oh it happens to everyone".
Posted by B2chica on May 27, 2008, at 11:29:47
In reply to Re: Intrusive music in my head, posted by boltsdraggin on May 25, 2008, at 20:04:37
i agree with nellie, i don't think this is directly related to your head injuries. however, it could be related to the medication your on. how long have you been on those meds and have you noticed that they started about the same time or within one to two weeks of each other?
anxiety definately can effect it as well.or maybe poop out of paxil not working for it. i know it may seem a bit much but zyprexa has been a great drug for me and even a little may help for you 2.5 or 5mg.
i would strongly suggest getting the zydis if you can afford it or have good insurance. it doesn't seem to be as sedating at least for me. but this drug also really really helps with anxiety.best wishes.
b2c.
Posted by James_Glasgow_UK on May 27, 2008, at 14:54:35
In reply to Intrusive music in my head, posted by boltsdraggin on May 24, 2008, at 20:42:23
Hi
I would Google head injury musical hallucinations and you will find quite a lot of evidence that brain injury is a definitely a know cause. It is related to both open and closed brain injury and often to those injuries that affect the temporal lobe.
It is also a symptom of many other conditon, however, given your medical history of 3 head injuries I would say it is a good place to start looking for a cause.
Any good Psychiatrist (or Doctor for that matter) will rule out all possible organic causes of the condition before they even attempt to look at other causes.
Hope this is of some help.
James
Posted by B2chica on May 27, 2008, at 15:36:33
In reply to Re: Intrusive music in my head, posted by James_Glasgow_UK on May 27, 2008, at 14:54:35
i would think music hallucinations due to head would be much more due to organic than head injury open or closed due to its nature.
i work with people with head injuries and although i'm sure it's possible for that small percent (i'm not belittling it) to get hallucinations i would believe that boltsdraggin either had suseptibility to this before meds/pre head injuries meaning organic/developmental and like you said hopefully a doc would discount that first before running expensive or intrusive tests such as cat and mri's, etc. on a person.(i do enjoy this discussion and don't discount your opinion)
b2c.
Posted by blueboy on May 28, 2008, at 8:57:57
In reply to Re: Intrusive music in my head » James_Glasgow_UK, posted by B2chica on May 27, 2008, at 15:36:33
> i would think music hallucinations due to head would be much more due to organic than head injury open or closed due to its nature.
> i work with people with head injuries and although i'm sure it's possible for that small percent (i'm not belittling it) to get hallucinations i would believe that boltsdraggin either had suseptibility to this before meds/pre head injuries meaning organic/developmental and like you said hopefully a doc would discount that first before running expensive or intrusive tests such as cat and mri's, etc. on a person.
>
> (i do enjoy this discussion and don't discount your opinion)
> b2c.If I am reading the OP correctly, this isn't a hallucination. It is possibly more comparable to an obsession. I think a lot of normal people have the same problem to a much lower degree, i.e. "I have a tune I can't get out of my head."
Posted by blueboy on May 28, 2008, at 9:18:12
In reply to Intrusive music in my head, posted by boltsdraggin on May 24, 2008, at 20:42:23
> I have intrusive music in my head. I will emphasize that I don't, and never have, "heard voices". I hear it all the time, sometimes even when I'm sleeping. It does not consist of complete songs, but rather random snippets that play over and over again, until something (completely unidentifiable) will suddenly "change the record". When I'm under stress, naturally the music gets louder. It will pervade anything I try to use to distract my mind. Sometimes, I will have two songs going simultaneously.
>It sounds exactly like a problem I have. I have recently been diagnosed as Bipolar II (after decades of unsuccessful treatment for major and moderate recurring depression).
I would (or will) get a song going, and it is worse and/or more noticeable at night in bed. I can be having other thoughts and the song just keeps going simultaneously. Although I can have it playing while having other thoughts, I haven't ever had two songs going at once. You must be quite talented, LOL!
I think of it as "semi-voluntary" because I can make it stop, but then it will start up again automatically.
I have had some success in stopping it. Try playing out the entire song from introduction to finish in your mind. That seems to help me a bit, although it is surprisingly hard to do. Then try to run a different song through your mind. Also, meditation (I do transcendental meditation) may help.
For me, it's not just music. If I play a computer game long enough, my mind will keep playing the game when I am asleep. It's usually a bit of a nightmare, actually, and will continue going while I am waking up. I have to sit on the edge of the bed, wake up more fully, and be able to understand that my computer is turned off and it is impossible for the game to be playing, before I can stop it.
Here's my theory on my own experience. Anxiety and hypomania are sometimes hard to distinguish and may be interrelated in some ways. Also, there may be some component of the phenomenon related to obsession or compulsion.
Anyway, get a good doctor's opinion and/or diagnosis about Bipolar II. I think, in general, the feeling that your mind seems (in my words) to be "losing traction", or you feel like your brain is "driving on ice", or that your gears are slipping, are characteristic of manic disorders.
I'm starting Lamactil, and I am optimistic that it will help with this. If not, I may have to try a drug that works more on the manic phase of the disease.
Posted by B2chica on May 28, 2008, at 10:59:59
In reply to Re: Intrusive music in my head, posted by blueboy on May 28, 2008, at 9:18:12
>>Here's my theory on my own experience. Anxiety and hypomania are sometimes hard to distinguish and may be interrelated in some ways. Also, there may be some component of the phenomenon related to obsession or compulsion.
this is exactly what i was thinking. i had some intrusive thoughts not quite voices that kept repeating in my head over and over and it would get worse when my anxiety would get worse. the more i would worry about it the worse it would get. it was related to ocd that i'm suseptable to. i don't have it severly but i have occassional bouts of it. zyprexa worked wonderfully for it worked on the anxiety also.
>>...I think, in general, the feeling that your mind seems (in my words) to be "losing traction", or you feel like your brain is "driving on ice"...
i like this descriptor. of losing traction and driving on ice, its a bit what you feel like. and what is happening with those thoughts, songs.
thanks blueboy
Posted by Jeroen on May 31, 2008, at 7:55:47
In reply to Intrusive music in my head, posted by boltsdraggin on May 24, 2008, at 20:42:23
you had a really bad run there friend
we all support you here, let the experts do their talking :)
Posted by Crotale on June 1, 2008, at 11:31:22
In reply to Intrusive music in my head, posted by boltsdraggin on May 24, 2008, at 20:42:23
I sometimes "hear music" (sort of) in white noise, like when I'm in the shower, or in a car with the window open (and the wind blowing). Anybody get this? (Never had a major head injury, BTW.)
Posted by kaylen on June 3, 2008, at 13:09:40
In reply to Intrusive music in my head, posted by boltsdraggin on May 24, 2008, at 20:42:23
My first manic episode I heard eric claptons Layla , at night i would wake up to whole new revisions of songs he did {but i was the author}...all very clear and sounding beutiful. . I was very manic and thought the music was coming from anything electrical ...light sockets ...toasters..*LOL* you name it ....I was so convinced that my family was also checking the electrical things to see if they could hear it also, when they couldnt ..it was dropped {meaning they thought nothing odd that i was hearing my music and they were not}. It was basicly non stop untill i finally because of halucinating so much so long and so real {almost everything I saw that was a halucination of sight ,I knew it was a halucination , so i thought that was OK. when I went to pick up my puppy and he dissaperd i realized , I should see a doctor ..i have a good sense of humor ...i laughed at myself ...called my husband , told him i needed to see the doctor asap...he took me ...and eric was in my head the whole time untill my reg doc sent me to a dif doc and as he was walking towards me in a crowd ..i told my husband ..."theres my doctor the music just stopped" ...hub looked at me and said "we have never seen this guy ..and that is not a doctor your guess is wrong" ...i ignored him and walked up to meet my new doc ..i still love erics music and i replay on cd's and in my mind . but it is just as any regular person hears a song in there head now ...that was many yrs ago...ive been upgraded over time to hypo-manic ..i control it with phentermine and xanax. BTW i was totaly clean and free of all drugs and alcohol at the time of this episode. Many other and profound things happened ..manic can be a beutiful mind expanding experince untill one is over tired ,total lack of sleep and food , but what isnt spoiled by that?it is not necesarily a bad thing ..not at all. I have had one head injury , but it was after this episode ...maybe its why im not as manic as i was . I dont know if this is at all helpfull..but i wanted to share it with you BOLTS,and it defo wasnt all good either , do mental disorders run in your family?...have you exposed yourself to ear deafening concerts? or head phones?, do you take drugs and /or drink? what is your general health? is this the only thing that MAY be atributed to your injuries?Do you get enough sleep? think about this next one ..please...Do you have plenty of stimuli for your creative part of your brain??..just a few questions off the top of my head ...i hope everything goes well for you , now and always ..i wish for you and everyone the best that this life has to offer ...thank you one and all.
peace
kaylen
Posted by boltsdraggin on June 3, 2008, at 21:43:49
In reply to Re: Intrusive music in my head, posted by blueboy on May 28, 2008, at 8:57:57
blueboy, you have some good thoughts going there.... My primary doc, who is a master psychopharmacologist, had a working diagnosis of bipolar II, and had me on Lamictal for a while. That's what I was on when I snapped in early May. He is going along with the Paxil, but told me when I talk to the p-doc next, to make double sure that I don't have a type II diagnosis. He still think I do. Must confess I don't know much about that diagnosis, and will read up on it. A hypomanic state with anxiety and tunes in my head - hmmm, something to think about.
I'm attempting to stop using the Ativan regularly because I want to be able to use it prn if I need it. I want to be able to utilize only the Paxil for anxiety - is this a good direction?
Posted by yxibow on June 5, 2008, at 2:05:42
In reply to Intrusive music in my head, posted by boltsdraggin on May 24, 2008, at 20:42:23
> I have intrusive music in my head. I will emphasize that I don't, and never have, "heard voices". I hear it all the time, sometimes even when I'm sleeping. It does not consist of complete songs, but rather random snippets that play over and over again, until something (completely unidentifiable) will suddenly "change the record". When I'm under stress, naturally the music gets louder. It will pervade anything I try to use to distract my mind. Sometimes, I will have two songs going simultaneously.
>
> The fact that the music is there is not necessarily the distressing fact. It's the fact that I can't control it.
>
> Currently, I'm taking Paxil 40mg and a low dose of Ativan to try to compensate, since I'm a registered nurse and need my mental faculties. However, now it goes and comes. When it's there, sometimes I can redirect it, but not always.
>
> I have had three major head injuries in my life - was whacked with a golf club in left frontal lobe at 11, was run over by a log wagon at 14, and smashed the front of my head into a windshield in auto accident in '99.
>
> Any suggestions?
I hate to say it, but it is true that intrusive thoughts happen to everyone -- its just the level amount and the amount of distress it causes. When I get very anxious I tend to decompensate(wikipedia)
"n psychiatry, decompensation is the deterioration of mental health in a patient with previously maintained psychiatric illness, leading to a diminished ability to think and carry on daily activities. This includes loss of memory, both long term and short."... at any rate and it comes out in physical symptoms and trails of words and garbage and could be music too as well... its intrusive, but fighting it may self-deprecate and be hard on myself.
The point is, there's a key there...
"When I'm under stress, naturally the music gets louder."
This is where an MRI and/or EEG might provide a differential diagnosis. But regardless whether it is organic (I hope not), treatment still is the same. OCD can be started by viruses in rare cases, it is not always 100% genetic but it usually has a fairly likely familial line of biochemical illness.
I had one minor head injury around 12 or so when I slipped on a rock on a creek. Also around the same time I went *ss over teakettle on my bicycle against a parking signpost, but that mostly affected my knees, and for quite a while when I kneeled on the ground the cap would slip around. I suppose it still is there, who knows.
But I also have a fairly heavy streak of biochemical imbalance on one side of my family. And that really governs things more than the loss of a few hair follicles and a hairlock from stitches years ago (not to lighten your condition at all).
I admit the disturbing part is that you do say you hear it while you're sleeping --- but are you absolutely sure you're in a REM state, becasuse that is neurologically rather unusual I would think unless its some sort of hypnogagogia or sleep paralysis .... that brings up a whole different story of a sleep study. So this complicates things more, unfortunately.
I would communicate some of this with your doctor, personally. It could be an extremely heightened sense, a somatoform or OCD sense of what everybody experiences -- "oh I have that annoying song they're always playing on the radio in my head", or it could be organic.Organic conditions such as meningiomas (common tumors), often benign, god forbid, if not operable can still be treated if necessary with psychotropic medications or other agents.
I would suggest a differential diagnosis with your doctor -- this is up to you, but with the number of injuries, especially the windshield incident, if I were you, I would get an MRI.Now, that incident is almost 10 years old, and I don't know how old the childhood incidents are since I dont believe you mentioned your age, or gender, but I am guessing male perhaps ? The log wagon I can't place, the golf club would have probably caused some sort of concussion or blackout, I don't know, I obviously weren't the treating doctor(s).
Good luck and best wishes
-- tidings
-- Jay
Posted by blueboy on June 5, 2008, at 8:04:16
In reply to Re: Intrusive music in my head, posted by boltsdraggin on June 3, 2008, at 21:43:49
> blueboy, you have some good thoughts going there.... My primary doc, who is a master psychopharmacologist, had a working diagnosis of bipolar II, and had me on Lamictal for a while. That's what I was on when I snapped in early May. He is going along with the Paxil, but told me when I talk to the p-doc next, to make double sure that I don't have a type II diagnosis. He still think I do. Must confess I don't know much about that diagnosis, and will read up on it. A hypomanic state with anxiety and tunes in my head - hmmm, something to think about.
>
> I'm attempting to stop using the Ativan regularly because I want to be able to use it prn if I need it. I want to be able to utilize only the Paxil for anxiety - is this a good direction?I'm not a doctor. I'm not about to give you advice about what to take.
I will say, though, that I understand Lamactil is used primarily to treat the depressive symptoms of Bipolar II. So I'm not surprised that you might have a severe episode of hypomania while taking it, even if it was working as intended.
I've started Lamactil. If it works on depression but I'm still getting manic symptoms, I imagine my doctor might want to change meds (I know depakote is one choice) or give me adjunct therapy, whether pharmacological or not (talk therapy, meditation, I dunno').
You called it a "break". That's a word I usually associate with psychosis, in this case meaning Bipolar I. But it doesn't sound like you're psychotic to my layperson's mind. I just want to make sure you're not running down the street naked or buying a yacht or hearing voices. I think hearing voices is very different from having a tune stuck in your head.
As for the Paxil, here is a quote from:
http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/Anxiety.htm"Antidepressants can make bipolar disorder worse." My history with SSRI's is terrible. Unfortunately I didn't keep a log and they all kind of blend together in my head, since I was taking a different drug every couple of months for years and years.
One of them gave me seizures. One of them gave me clonic seizures, which REALLY makes you think you're going nuts, LOL. They were all really bad for me.
I would agree with the advice given at the quote from pscheducation.org. Make damn well sure that your are not Bipolar before you start taking SSRI's.
If you ARE Bipolar, you should treat that first. Then, once your mood swings are better controlled, worry about treating any remaining depression, anxiety, and OCD later.
Psycheducation.org, as I read it, seems to say that non-medical therapy can be effective for depression/anxiety/OCD once the Bipolar condition is successfully treated with medication. I'm hoping that's true, since that's my current game plan.
One last word about treatment priority. Substance abuse is quite prevalent for Bipolar sufferers.
I had bad problems with alcohol. It gave me a lot of temporary relief from the pain caused by my illness, but its addictive/destructive nature makes it a terrible choice for treatment. In the long term it just made The pain worse and worse, getting me into a destructive addiction cycle.
And another downside is that it can mask and/or aggravate the underlying condition, so that it makes getting successful medical treatment more difficult.
The best thing I ever did was go to AA and get sober. If I hadn't done it, I'd be dead today, either from alcoholism or suicide.
Posted by Tomatheus on June 5, 2008, at 18:39:40
In reply to Re: Intrusive music in my head » boltsdraggin, posted by yxibow on June 5, 2008, at 2:05:42
> I hate to say it, but it is true that intrusive thoughts happen to everyone -- its just the level amount and the amount of distress it causes. ...
I think I'm missing something here because I don't really see how intrusive thoughts and intrusive music are anything other than auditory hallucinations. I should probably say that I experience both fairly regularly, but never did so before I began experiencing psychotic symptoms in February of last year.
I'm not saying that it's necessarily best to refer to intrusive thoughts and intrusive music (especially intrusive music) as voices, but if a person is hearing sounds that don't have real external stimuli -- whether they're loud or quiet, and whether they sound real or not -- isn't that person experiencing auditory hallucinations?
It seems odd that I'd be more "normal" now that I experience intrusive thoughts and music than I was before my psychotic break, when I never experienced any hallucinations of any sort.
Tomatheus
Posted by blueboy on June 6, 2008, at 11:04:54
In reply to Re: Intrusive music in my head, posted by Tomatheus on June 5, 2008, at 18:39:40
> > I hate to say it, but it is true that intrusive thoughts happen to everyone -- its just the level amount and the amount of distress it causes. ...
>
> I think I'm missing something here because I don't really see how intrusive thoughts and intrusive music are anything other than auditory hallucinations.To me, the difference is that I know that the music is coming from within my mind. I don't think there is actual music playing. There is no confusion as to whether it is real.
Also, mentally healthy people (at least relatively, LOL) often report the phenomenon of having a song "stuck in their mind".
Like, I can close my eyes and visualize my mother. Perfectly normal. I could conceivably close my eyes and visualize my mother without wanting to, repeatedly. That would be similar to the "intrusive music". Or I could think I see my mother, when she's 500 miles away. To me, that would be a hallucination.
In my vocabulary, hallucinations are something more serious and generally either drug-induced or symptomatic of psychosis. The only time I've ever had one is when I have partly awakened from a dream.
Posted by Tomatheus on June 6, 2008, at 18:48:53
In reply to Re: Intrusive music in my head, posted by blueboy on June 6, 2008, at 11:04:54
Blueboy,
Thank you for your reply. It is helpful to read your descriptions of the intrusive music and visualizations that you've experienced, and how these phenomena differ from full-blown hallucinations.
I guess I tend to associate intrusive thoughts and intrusive music with psychosis because I've been experiencing these phenomena since my psychotic break but never experienced them before I became psychotic. As part of my psychotic illness (schizoaffective disorder), I have experienced phenomena similar to what you've described *and* more full-blown hallucinations such as hearing sounds in the room that aren't really there and seeing objects that look dramatically different from how they normally look.
I'm not suggesting that you necessarily have schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, or another psychotic illness. Even though I would describe intrusive music as being a type of a hallucination, I think it's debatable as to whether or not what you've experienced is actually a hallucination (although I could be wrong -- the intrusive music probably either is or isn't a hallucination). If you don't experience stronger hallucinations with delusions, disorganized thinking, and/or negative symptoms (with a significant degree of functional impairment), then you probably don't have schizophrenia.
Thanks again for your post.
Tomatheus
> To me, the difference is that I know that the music is coming from within my mind. I don't think there is actual music playing. There is no confusion as to whether it is real.
>
> Also, mentally healthy people (at least relatively, LOL) often report the phenomenon of having a song "stuck in their mind".
>
> Like, I can close my eyes and visualize my mother. Perfectly normal. I could conceivably close my eyes and visualize my mother without wanting to, repeatedly. That would be similar to the "intrusive music". Or I could think I see my mother, when she's 500 miles away. To me, that would be a hallucination.
>
> In my vocabulary, hallucinations are something more serious and generally either drug-induced or symptomatic of psychosis. The only time I've ever had one is when I have partly awakened from a dream.
Posted by blueboy on June 9, 2008, at 7:32:03
In reply to Re: Intrusive music in my head » blueboy, posted by Tomatheus on June 6, 2008, at 18:48:53
> Blueboy,
>
> Thank you for your reply. It is helpful to read your descriptions of the intrusive music and visualizations that you've experienced, and how these phenomena differ from full-blown hallucinations.
>
> I guess I tend to associate intrusive thoughts and intrusive music with psychosis because I've been experiencing these phenomena since my psychotic break but never experienced them before I became psychotic. As part of my psychotic illness (schizoaffective disorder), I have experienced phenomena similar to what you've described *and* more full-blown hallucinations such as hearing sounds in the room that aren't really there and seeing objects that look dramatically different from how they normally look.
>
> I'm not suggesting that you necessarily have schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, or another psychotic illness.I don't. In fact, a long time ago when I took psychedelic drugs like LSD a few times, I never got hallucinations. Maybe there is a part of my brain that actually works right, LOL.
> Even though I would describe intrusive music as being a type of a hallucination . . .
I'm guessing there's a particular little place, somewhere in the brain (that they'll discover in about 50 years if civilization doesn't fall to pieces before then), that is responsible for reporting whether perception originates externally or internally.
There has to be another spot that lets a "normal" person start and stop internal sensory phenomena. I can sit here and visualize an apple, then stop, or I can imagine a tune, then stop. I'm fairly sure that the stopping part can be difficult even for the healthy brain -- remember the old joke, "I'll give you a dollar if you can not think about a giant pink elephant for ten seconds". Most people can't do it.
This must also have something to do with the function that reminds us. I'm remembering, right now, my doctor's appointment at 11.00 today. My mechanism functions well enough that I'm sure I'll remember, because I've instructed that part of my brain that it is important.
But then there's that Proustian phenomenon of involuntary association. I'll see or hear or smell something that will somehow bring back a flood of memories from a long, long time ago. I hear an old song and suddenly I vividly remember the smell of the perfume my girlfriend in the eighth grade wore. So getting a tune stuck in your head might be some sort of malfunction where the involuntary memory gets stuck in a loop.
Okay, enough rambling about my addlebrained theories. My point is that there must be a specific mechanism that lets the non-psychotic mind distinguish between external and internal phenomena. It must be fairly high up in the brain, since most people when they go to sleep will experience dreams as "real", i.e. external. And I'm guessing that the switch is normally triggered by sensory input -- when the alarm clock goes off, we stop dreaming.
I don't know a lot about schizophrenia, but the movie "A Beautiful Mind" indicated that Nash eventually became able to distinguish between hallucinations and reality by using his intellect. He would still see and hear an imaginary person talking to him, but he would be able to realize at the cognitive level that it was an hallucination!
This is the end of the thread.
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