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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 14:28:14
Neither has been working on its own. I am trying them together now at least for two weeks.
That's all.
oky
Posted by SLS on May 24, 2008, at 15:38:37
In reply to Amineptine plus Tianeptine, posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 14:28:14
> Neither has been working on its own. I am trying them together now at least for two weeks.
>
> That's all.
>
> okyGood luck!
- Scott
Posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 17:24:00
In reply to Amineptine plus Tianeptine, posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 14:28:14
It probably has no relevance but Parnate and tianeptine was bad for me.
Not THAT bad, but I went to bed for the day and waited it out with some benzos to keep me from feeling too awful.It's a bit unpredictable.
Posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 17:34:30
In reply to Re: Amineptine plus Tianeptine, posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 17:24:00
Thanks Scott,
So far the Tianeptine has made me more anxious. Maybe it will calm down in another week. All I want to do is sleep and die. I have been taking a lot of Atarax and or Benadryl with valerian root to sleep as much as I can.
But really Scott it does help to know I am not alone.
And so as not to be entirely narcissistic, I am so glad you are doing well. I read recent posts about countless drug trials you have tried for many years. Not only have you been gifted with the cognitive skills to meticulously tease out what chemical combination you required but also possess the enormous fortitude it must have taken to keep on trying. Thank you for the kindness in continuing to help others now and in your own time of need.
So thanks again. For helping me and others, for your energy and knowledge, for letting me know I am not alone, for being you.Sigismund,
I would like to know more about this combination as it was potentially going to be the next one I tried. Why did you try Parnate and Tianeptine together and what was so "bad"? I did order Selegiline to try with Tianeptine but I think that is not at all the same. I was still looking for neuroprotection.
Wordy as always,
okydoky
Posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 17:47:21
In reply to Re: Amineptine plus Tianeptine, posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 17:34:30
What was bad about tianeptine and Parnate?
I think I just felt sick or really awful, maybe agitated.
It was quite a bit worse than Parnate and SAMe which made me feel agitated as I walked along with averted eyes.
SAMe on its own is fine with me.
I would be quite happy trying low dose deprenyl along with tianeptine, though I know it would aggravate my tendency to insomnia.
Posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 18:04:20
In reply to Re: Amineptine plus Tianeptine, posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 17:47:21
The Parnate always agiatated me so I am not sure if the Tianeptine addition was your source of agitation. Did you take Parnate by itself?
oky
Posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 18:47:21
In reply to Re: Amineptine plus Tianeptine, posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 18:04:20
Well, I never took much Parnate, but 10mg/d seemed to help a little.
(When I went up to 20 I felt worse, and didn't feel inclined to keep increasing the dose.)
But the addition of tianeptine to Parnate was bad enough to send me to bed for the day.
I had the idea that it was some agitating serotonin receptor subtype in action, but I suppose it could be anything.
Posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 21:32:53
In reply to Re: Amineptine plus Tianeptine, posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 18:47:21
Tell me about your experience with Stablon.
I started to read some of the old posts.
oky
Posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 21:49:55
In reply to Re: Amineptine plus Tianeptine » Sigismund, posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 21:32:53
Well, I took it for more than a year.
It certainly improved my mood and helped me get out of the house and do stuff and not feel like some kind of sub-human.
On occasion it even got me chatting to people.Perhaps it made me a little more nervous.
I think my benzo use increased a little.I had 2 problems with it.
The first might be peculiar to me as I am reactive and allergic and tianeptine made things worse in this respect.
The second was that after a year or so I began to feel agitated on it. That wasn't a huge problem as I lowered the dose and then stopped it entirely over a period of maybe 6 months. This wasn't at all difficult.
Posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 23:19:39
In reply to Tianeptine, posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 21:49:55
What kind of allergic reaction(s)? I have increased my clonazepam. I rarely took it before I started the Stablon. I'm not sure if I am just feeling more, be it good or bad or feeling worse. I have been more agitated on other meds before. It's hard to tell what is going on. I have been so low and foggy for so long. I know there is a change. If I do not feel any motivation or vitality soon I think that I will have to accept it as a change for the worse.
What are you on now? Is it helping?
oky
Posted by BGB on May 25, 2008, at 2:55:17
In reply to Amineptine plus Tianeptine, posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 14:28:14
Oky,
I'm really sorry to hear that you're feeling so bad. Best of luck with your new combination.
I'm still considering Amineptine, but I'm taking SO much stuff already (crazy-*ss P-doc has me on NINE meds now) I don't think it's a particularly good idea. We'll see how things shake down after my next visit.
Hang in there, and let us know how you're doing.
B =)
Posted by okydoky on May 25, 2008, at 8:32:46
In reply to Re: Amineptine plus Tianeptine » okydoky, posted by BGB on May 25, 2008, at 2:55:17
What is your current regimen? How long have you been on it? Do you like your pdoc? I cannot find one since my last one retired a couple of years ago.
I had tried Stablon twice and was immediately unable to take it because of "interstitial Cystitis"(look it up, Ive explained it too many times) so I wanted to continue this trial at least until such time as I have too much pain. I already added 5-10mg oxy ir a day and when it's really bad I snort it.
I stopped trying antidepressants once this disease got so bad a few of years ago. Most of them do not work and/or increased my disease symptoms . Things just got so bad physically and mentally I felt like I had nothing to loose by trying again.I don't have my old psychopharmocologist to run things by any more and explain the research I brought to him and even write scripts for almost anything I wanted to try. I am alone. Last night I wrote a small bit about how I was feeling. Should have been part of a diary I do not possess: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/esteem/20080422/msgs/830983.html If you are interested. Not sure why I think I have to put my thoughts out there!
Keep us updated. Perhaps you hav posted already but I do nt know it.
Take care,oyy
Posted by okydoky on May 25, 2008, at 8:42:15
In reply to Re: Amineptine plus Tianeptine » BGB, posted by okydoky on May 25, 2008, at 8:32:46
Just read your med regimin I figured it was posted.
THanks,oky
Posted by Sigismund on May 25, 2008, at 16:48:21
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » Sigismund, posted by okydoky on May 24, 2008, at 23:19:39
>What kind of allergic reaction(s)?
My sinuses block up.
>I have increased my clonazepam. I rarely took it before I started the Stablon. I'm not sure if I am just feeling more, be it good or bad or feeling worse. I have been more agitated on other meds before. It's hard to tell what is going on. I have been so low and foggy for so long. I know there is a change. If I do not feel any motivation or vitality soon I think that I will have to accept it as a change for the worse.
People have found Stablon to be prosocial but not so usually have they found more motivation on it.
>What are you on now?
Nothing much, just 5mg/d or a bit more of Valium with very occasional Trivastal
>Is it helping?
I'd like to stop the Valium because THAT makes my sinuses worse too.
Posted by undopaminergic on May 25, 2008, at 19:03:40
In reply to Tianeptine, posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 21:49:55
>
> I had 2 problems with it.
> The first might be peculiar to me as I am reactive and allergic and tianeptine made things worse in this respect.
>That is somewhat paradoxical - tianeptine has been used to improve the symptoms of asthma.
Posted by undopaminergic on May 25, 2008, at 19:05:29
In reply to Re: Amineptine plus Tianeptine, posted by Sigismund on May 24, 2008, at 18:47:21
> Well, I never took much Parnate, but 10mg/d seemed to help a little.
>
> (When I went up to 20 I felt worse, and didn't feel inclined to keep increasing the dose.)
>I think you need at least 30 mg/day or so for Parnate to be really useful. Some people need even more, with extreme cases where more than 100 mg/day was used for many years.
Posted by Sigismund on May 25, 2008, at 19:11:56
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by undopaminergic on May 25, 2008, at 19:03:40
The asthma thing might be mediated through serotonin.
My allergy thing is mediated through my high IgE.
I suppose that explains it.
Posted by Sigismund on May 25, 2008, at 19:14:01
In reply to Re: Amineptine plus Tianeptine, posted by undopaminergic on May 25, 2008, at 19:05:29
>I think you need at least 30 mg/day or so for Parnate to be really useful. Some people need even more, with extreme cases where more than 100 mg/day was used for many years
It was just a gut feeling that this wasn't right for me, otherwise I would have gone up with it.
Posted by okydoky on May 25, 2008, at 20:15:31
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by Sigismund on May 25, 2008, at 16:48:21
Sigimund, I thought I read recent posts that you were o quite a few medications? Perhaps it ws long ago or I got it mixed up.
While it was working I worked up to 90mg of Parnate and a lot of augmentation until it finally pooped out completely.
Tried it several times since with no + response. It has been several years so I thought I might try again. I get a lot of side effects. If I could find something else I would like that. Can't sleep on it. Lots of tension in my body . Hypotension and then spontaneous hypertensive episodes. I still have Procardia in the house so I would not have to go to the hospital.
My old pdoc prescribed Parnate and added Depakote based on my use for about three years of cocaine as an antidepressant. I would snort it all day at work. A little at a time and do fine. At the end I dated a dealer and was turned on to free basing. That was different all together. That was a real high. A very addictive one for me. I am now at a point were after about 17 years of no cocaine I would not have any problem snorting some now and again just to feel alive.
Stress has been so high for so long I think that perhpas that is what has adversly affected my cognitive skills and memory. Parnate as far as I know is not neuroprotective and one is so limited in what I can take with it.
What is all the ruckus about Trivastal? How are you doing on just this?
oky
Posted by Sigismund on May 26, 2008, at 1:20:44
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by okydoky on May 25, 2008, at 20:15:31
I have been on a few, but the Valium that I am habituated to is all for now.
I couldn't really believe that Parnate was right for me.
I got myself into some kind of twenty year brain f*ck but the less I take the better.
Anyway, I'm really not in good shape enough to be taking meds.
As you get older you don't have the vitality you had when younger.Maybe Trivastal would be OK with you?
It's no big deal with me, but when I take it I only take the one.
It feels benign and nice in a small way.A lot of us I suspect would be better off chewing coca leaf and going for long walks in the Andes.
Posted by garylee on May 26, 2008, at 17:48:32
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » okydoky, posted by Sigismund on May 26, 2008, at 1:20:44
I had no response to Tianeptine at all (like most meds I take!).
I remember (and this was over 4 years ago now though) I tried Donepezil (Aricept, an Alzheimers med, I've tried and will try anything!) straight after with interesting results. It especially helped with my sleep regulation and cognition, whch obviously has a rebound effect with the depression.
Anyone else had any experience with Aricept?
Gary
Posted by undopaminergic on May 26, 2008, at 19:29:20
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by garylee on May 26, 2008, at 17:48:32
>
> I remember (and this was over 4 years ago now though) I tried Donepezil (Aricept, an Alzheimers med, I've tried and will try anything!) straight after with interesting results. It especially helped with my sleep regulation and cognition, whch obviously has a rebound effect with the depression.
>
> Anyone else had any experience with Aricept?No, but I've been trying another cholinesterase inhibitor: huperzine A, an alkaloid of the firmoss (club moss?) Huperzia serrata - native to China, I beleive. Some sources suggest that it's neuroprotective, but I haven't investigated it in much depth. I've found that it does improve memory to some extent, but I'm not certain yet whether its benefits are sufficient to be of practical significance.
There is another alkaloid with cholinesterase inhibiting properties - galanthamine - which occurs in several species of plants, including Narcissus. It has some potency as a nicotinic agonist as well.
Galanthamine is avalable as Reminyl on the mainstream pharmaceutical market, but also as a dietary supplement from several manufacturers.
Huperzine A, as far as I know, is only available as a dietary supplement. The product I'm using was made by Unique Nutrition (also known as Cognitive Nutrition).
Posted by undopaminergic on May 26, 2008, at 19:45:51
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by okydoky on May 25, 2008, at 20:15:31
>
> My old pdoc prescribed Parnate and added Depakote based on my use for about three years of cocaine as an antidepressant. I would snort it all day at work. A little at a time and do fine. At the end I dated a dealer and was turned on to free basing. That was different all together. That was a real high. A very addictive one for me. I am now at a point were after about 17 years of no cocaine I would not have any problem snorting some now and again just to feel alive.
>Did you try snorting amineptine? Its pharmacological action is similar to that of cocaine, but I haven't heard of anyone snorting or injecting it.
Alternatively, cocaine can be used orally, by ingestion or sublingual absorption - a method closer to its original method of administration by the natives of the Andes.
> Stress has been so high for so long I think that perhpas that is what has adversly affected my cognitive skills and memory. Parnate as far as I know is not neuroprotective and one is so limited in what I can take with it.
>Rasagiline seems very promising as a neuroprotective agent - it's a MAO-B inhibitor like selegiline.
Dopamine reuptake inhibitors, like cocaine and methylphenidate are also protective against several neurotoxins, including MPTP - the famous contaminant of synthetic "heroin" (actually pethidine/meperidine) - which rapidly produces end-stage Parkinson's disease.
Posted by okydoky on May 30, 2008, at 10:20:48
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by undopaminergic on May 26, 2008, at 19:45:51
This is more for my records which I do not keep. Could not find the post where I said I was on Tianeptine only but stopped two days ago. Things just got too out of hand. My neighbor who i saw yesturday said she was worried. I feel so much better which is not saying much.I am still very depressed but the Tianeptine made it worse.
oky
Posted by Marty on June 4, 2008, at 12:04:20
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by undopaminergic on May 26, 2008, at 19:45:51
Could anyone tell me if Tianeptine reminded them of another drug effect ? anyone feels like it, even remotely ?I'll try it in a couple days and was wondering.
BTW, a RECENT paper on medline suggest it has been recently discovered that Tianeptine had an effect on the Adenosine, just like caffeine. Not sure it's an antagonist like caffeine, we would need to take a look at the full paper since it's not specified in the abstract.
SLS, maybe you would like to investigate and update your drug chart.
/\/\arty
Thanks,
/\/\arty
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