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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 36. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Bob on May 22, 2008, at 17:04:15
Did anyone see the PBS show on depression last night? It was an overview of the disease and many of the treatments used for it.
Some of my thoughts:
1 - It touched on a number of different aspects and was reasonably thorough I though for a 2 hr show.
2 - Even though it mentioned treatment resistant depression near the end of the show, I felt like this show, like so many other programs and articles, paints a rosier picture of treatment than is actually the case. I guess I'm looking through crap-colored glasses, but there's little mention of how much trouble many people have with meds, or of the STAR*D study. I guess out of necessity, all the stories they follow are success stories - people who had a hard time, but have now put it behind them for the most part. Even their one refractory case was a woman who got her life back through DBS. I feel like it leaves the impression that all one has to do is realize you have depression and get treatment and everything will be ok. I guess they're just trying to provide hope.
3 - I was suprised by the cocktail of meds Andrew Solomon (the author of Noonday Demon) is taking on a daily basis. It was a little pile of pills (maybe 6-8), half of which were strong meds, like Remeron and Zyprexa.
4 - There was the usual portrayal of ECT as being a largely benign treatment that only really carried a possible side effect of temporary memory problems. No mention of how such a treatment might not turn out well, or that the claimed 85% or responders might not be responding a few days or weeks later.
5 - I don't want to be too cynical, but if there is a disease out there that is exceedingly hard to treat, might it not be useful to show some of the people that haven't made it out the other side yet to a highly functional life as an author, journalist, artist, or activist? Then the urgency for new and better treatments might be more evident.
Posted by torachan on May 22, 2008, at 18:32:55
In reply to PBS Show About Depression, posted by Bob on May 22, 2008, at 17:04:15
Yes, I seen most of it, and I thought the guy you mentioned, Andrew Solomon, was on far too many drugs for a disease like depression. He even admitted so, and I'm surprised a learned man like himself will allow his better judgment to be overruled by a doctor. Sometimes GP doctors don't quite understand how to deal with mental illness.
But it is his life, and perhaps there is an element to his disorder I'm obviously not aware of that requires such a heavy barrage of meds.
Posted by chiron on May 22, 2008, at 18:42:35
In reply to PBS Show About Depression, posted by Bob on May 22, 2008, at 17:04:15
I only caught the tail end. I'm one of those that has been trying for 20+ years to get out of the hole with no avail. I also had a slight issue with the comment that the best/only way to diagnose depression is that there is a change. Hell, I don't ever remember not being depressed.
Overall, I did like their message about it being a medical disease & it deserves more attention and attitude as being such.
-and I like Andrew Solomon's book.
Posted by ClearSkies on May 22, 2008, at 18:48:33
In reply to Re: PBS Show About Depression, posted by chiron on May 22, 2008, at 18:42:35
> Overall, I did like their message about it being a medical disease & it deserves more attention and attitude as being such.
>I liked that aspect of it too. Still fighting the fight, 10 years on.
CS
Posted by DuckDuckGoose on May 22, 2008, at 18:51:45
In reply to Re: PBS Show About Depression, posted by ClearSkies on May 22, 2008, at 18:48:33
I've read andrew soloman's book and was curious what drugs he is currently taking. Does anyone know the full list?
Posted by Bob on May 22, 2008, at 20:24:07
In reply to Re: PBS Show About Depression, posted by DuckDuckGoose on May 22, 2008, at 18:51:45
> I've read andrew soloman's book and was curious what drugs he is currently taking. Does anyone know the full list?
He spells out the full list on the PBS show, but I don't remember it now. It contained Zoloft, Remeron, Zyprexa, and at least 3 other meds.
Posted by Bob on May 22, 2008, at 20:26:33
In reply to Re: PBS Show About Depression, posted by DuckDuckGoose on May 22, 2008, at 18:51:45
Again I would reiterate that there wasn't much mention of the many, many people for whom the medecines are a hell on earth. There were some people for the "medecines didn't work" but they somehow found a way to cure themselves, like the guy who basically hung out with his football player friend. I wish my disease was that easy to assuage.
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2008, at 21:11:24
In reply to Re: PBS Show About Depression » DuckDuckGoose, posted by Bob on May 22, 2008, at 20:26:33
Our cable recorder was not working last night and it didn't record got a new one today will the show be on again? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on May 22, 2008, at 22:13:14
In reply to Re: PBS Show About Depression, posted by torachan on May 22, 2008, at 18:32:55
> Yes, I seen most of it, and I thought the guy you mentioned, Andrew Solomon, was on far too many drugs for a disease like depression.
Q: How many pills is "a disease like depression" worth?
A: As many as it takes.
I need 5 different drugs to maintain an improvement of depression. I tried to discontinue one drug at a time once the treatment was established to identify which drugs were necessary in the regime. For me, 5 works. 4 does not. It took decades to find this combination of drugs.
- Scott
Posted by Ezekiel on May 23, 2008, at 4:34:47
In reply to Re: PBS Show About Depression, posted by SLS on May 22, 2008, at 22:13:14
Scott - that is simply astounding, it took you literally decades to cull together a magic cocktail of pills that finally adequately treated your depression?
My hang up has been relentless dysthymia the last 13 years interspersed with your occasional moderate to major depressive episodes, oh the joy of it all!
Anyways, please excuse my curiosity but I have to ask how you finally arrived at your AD regimen - care to disclose the concise version of the path? Did you recruit the help of pdocs all
along the way?I just began seeing a psychiatrist again for the second time in my life (last time was nearly a decade ago), and he proceeded to fling a diagnosis of ADHD at me after dialoguing for an 1 1/2 hrs - I walked out of his office (he happens to be a prominent researcher at the renown Massachusetts General Hospital) with a script for Ritalin for inattention & Valium for my intermittent insomniac periods. Well, I'm sort of still reeling from this encounter, I've never really considered this to be a core issue but he believes it's quite possibly driving everything (i.e., my rumination, anxiety, etc) WOW, who really knows you know?! Us depressives learn to live with a fair amount of resignation due to our failed trials of pharmacological intervention, so it becomes very hard to conjure any enthusiasm concerning a new "drug mediated opportunity" that will allegedly this time punch through the gray clouds of melancholy.
Ok I must apologize, I just realized I hijacked this thread by droning on about myself, my bad. I guess I needed to engage in a moment of catharsis - signing off . . . Zeke
Posted by michael on May 23, 2008, at 4:55:37
In reply to Re: PBS Show About Depression, posted by SLS on May 22, 2008, at 22:13:14
> > Yes, I seen most of it, and I thought the guy you mentioned, Andrew Solomon, was on far too many drugs for a disease like depression.
>
> Q: How many pills is "a disease like depression" worth?
>
> A: As many as it takes.
>
> I need 5 different drugs to maintain an improvement of depression. I tried to discontinue one drug at a time once the treatment was established to identify which drugs were necessary in the regime. For me, 5 works. 4 does not. It took decades to find this combination of drugs.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>Scott-
I've been here at PB very intermittanty for the last several years (not regularly since 2000 +/- a year or two).
In any case, you have no idea how good it sounds to hear that you've been able to find some degree of relief! I hope you find more!
I just want to thank you for all of the help, advice, insight, and encouragement that you've been able & willing to offer to me (not to mention to others) over those years - particularly since I know that your path has not been an easy one.
I hope that you know how helpful you've been to the rest of us, here at PB over the years! Thanks for taking the time to help me too, I've always valued your feedback, and sincerely appreciated your willingness to make the effort to share your knowledge! You're a good man. Thanks again.
Sincerely,
Michael
Posted by SLS on May 23, 2008, at 5:46:56
In reply to Re: PBS Show About Depression » SLS, posted by michael on May 23, 2008, at 4:55:37
Thanks, Michael. You brought tears to my eyes.
- Scott
> I've been here at PB very intermittanty for the last several years (not regularly since 2000 +/- a year or two).
>
> In any case, you have no idea how good it sounds to hear that you've been able to find some degree of relief! I hope you find more!
>
> I just want to thank you for all of the help, advice, insight, and encouragement that you've been able & willing to offer to me (not to mention to others) over those years - particularly since I know that your path has not been an easy one.
>
> I hope that you know how helpful you've been to the rest of us, here at PB over the years! Thanks for taking the time to help me too, I've always valued your feedback, and sincerely appreciated your willingness to make the effort to share your knowledge! You're a good man. Thanks again.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael
Posted by SLS on May 23, 2008, at 5:59:41
In reply to Re: PBS Show About Depression, posted by Ezekiel on May 23, 2008, at 4:34:47
A good place to start is to make 3 lists:
1. Drugs and drug combinations that produced an antidepressant effect, regardless of degree or length of time.
2. Drugs and drug combinations that produced a worsening of depression.
3. Drugs and drug combinations that were without effect.
Sometimes, it is not until a new drug arrives that a long journey can find its first destination - remission or robust improvement of the biological illness. The second destination might be psychotherapy to remediate the warped perceptions and thought styles produced by the depression. Subsequent destinations might involve vocational rehabilitation and/or academics. After reaching destination number one, most everyone gains the functionality and motivation to create their own unique and positive path in life.I am currently taking:
Nardil 90mg
nortriptyline 150mg
Lamictal 200mg
Abilify 20mg
Deplin 15mgAll of these drugs exerted a short-lived or partial antidepressant effect when taken individually with the exception of Deplin. Deplin was added on top of the four other drugs.
Why don't you go ahead and post your 3 lists and let people give you some input as to how best to use them.
Do you have any questions?
- Scott
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 23, 2008, at 12:49:20
In reply to PBS Show About Depression, posted by Bob on May 22, 2008, at 17:04:15
to apologize for her rampant lack of understanding. She and dad watched the show together, apparently. I can't watch it on the TV, and my efforts to watch it on the computer have triggered depressed thinking and suicidal ideation. I guess I'm sensitive to that stuff. Evocative music and dark images are triggering to me these days.
Well, mom said she was sorry for always urging me to come off of meds as soon as possible. She said that she now understood that meds could be used for maintenence too.
it was an awkward call.
-Ll
Posted by michael on May 23, 2008, at 17:45:29
In reply to Re: PBS Show About Depression, posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2008, at 21:11:24
> Our cable recorder was not working last night and it didn't record got a new one today will the show be on again? Phillipa
Try this link:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/takeonestep/depression/index.htmlI think you can find if there are other broadcast times in your area, and if nothing else, you can watch it online.
I took a look, and the quality seemed as good as on TV - though I suppose that'll be relative to each person's PC equipment & setup, etc.?
Michael
Posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2008, at 19:30:42
In reply to Re: PBS Show About Depression » Phillipa, posted by michael on May 23, 2008, at 17:45:29
Thanks Michael. I think we are recording when it's on again but read the narrative and I lost my Mother to Addison's disease when I was l7. Love Phillipa
Posted by Midnightblue on May 23, 2008, at 20:41:53
In reply to my mom called me, posted by llurpsienoodle on May 23, 2008, at 12:49:20
> to apologize for her rampant lack of understanding. She and dad watched the show together, apparently. I can't watch it on the TV, and my efforts to watch it on the computer have triggered depressed thinking and suicidal ideation. I guess I'm sensitive to that stuff. Evocative music and dark images are triggering to me these days.
>
> Well, mom said she was sorry for always urging me to come off of meds as soon as possible. She said that she now understood that meds could be used for maintenence too.
>
> it was an awkward call.
>
> -LlLL,
It may not have been enough, but it was at least an attempt at understanding on their part.
MB
Posted by DuckDuckGoose on May 24, 2008, at 19:26:22
In reply to Re: my mom called me » llurpsienoodle, posted by Midnightblue on May 23, 2008, at 20:41:53
I found a transcript of the interview with solomon. He takes remeron, zoloft, wellbutrin, namenda, zyprexa, and something called remenedine (which I can't find any info on) for weight control. I can't imagine taking that much medicine (but I would if it was the only thing between me and suicide).
Posted by DuckDuckGoose on May 24, 2008, at 19:37:42
In reply to Re: my mom called me, posted by DuckDuckGoose on May 24, 2008, at 19:26:22
> I found a transcript of the interview with solomon. He takes remeron, zoloft, wellbutrin, namenda, zyprexa, and something called remenedine (which I can't find any info on) for weight control. I can't imagine taking that much medicine (but I would if it was the only thing between me and suicide).
It's Ranitidine, not remenedine - the transcript was wrong! By the way, I used to take zoloft and those were two 100mg pills he takes everyday along with everything else! God bless his liver!
Posted by Sigismund on May 25, 2008, at 19:23:58
In reply to Re: my mom called me, posted by DuckDuckGoose on May 24, 2008, at 19:37:42
In his book he mentions that he was so depressed that he had to be spoon fed by (I think) his father.
It's a really good book and I'm sorry that he has to take so much stuff but hope he feels OK.
Posted by BGB on May 26, 2008, at 13:53:26
In reply to Andrew Solomon, posted by Sigismund on May 25, 2008, at 19:23:58
I thought it was interesting when I read that Andrew's father is the Chairman of Forest Laboratories, the manufacturer of Namenda.
Posted by B2chica on May 27, 2008, at 8:21:43
In reply to Re: PBS Show About Depression, posted by DuckDuckGoose on May 22, 2008, at 18:51:45
Amantadine (spelling?) was one of them for weight control for the zyprexa.
b2c.
Posted by B2chica on May 27, 2008, at 8:26:56
In reply to PBS Show About Depression, posted by Bob on May 22, 2008, at 17:04:15
i was only able to watch an hour of it. i liked it at first but i must agree with bob. it was showing a lot of upsides, which i guess you want to show in TV, to the treatment especially of ECT. but i'm VERY glad they talked about the one girl who tried 7 or 9 drugs before she found one that worked for her depression. unfortunately my DH left before he heard that part (grrrr).
i'm just glad they are showing something more real of depression. i think the shows will just keep getting better.b2c.
Posted by MiniMom on May 28, 2008, at 16:25:28
In reply to Re: my mom called me, posted by DuckDuckGoose on May 24, 2008, at 19:37:42
> > I found a transcript of the interview with solomon. He takes remeron, zoloft, wellbutrin, namenda, zyprexa, and something called remenedine (which I can't find any info on) for weight control. I can't imagine taking that much medicine (but I would if it was the only thing between me and suicide).
>
> It's Ranitidine, not remenedine - the transcript was wrong! By the way, I used to take zoloft and those were two 100mg pills he takes everyday along with everything else! God bless his liver!I couldn't find anything on Remenedine either, but I don't think it's Ranitidine; that's Zantac for stomach acid. I thought maybe it was Amantadine, which is for the flu, but also related to Parkinson's... One of my biggest issues w/these meds is that the weight gain is so upsetting to me that it's impossible to even judge the treatment because of the depression from gaining weight.
Posted by Bob on May 28, 2008, at 17:54:24
In reply to Re: my mom called me, posted by MiniMom on May 28, 2008, at 16:25:28
> > > I found a transcript of the interview with solomon. He takes remeron, zoloft, wellbutrin, namenda, zyprexa, and something called remenedine (which I can't find any info on) for weight control. I can't imagine taking that much medicine (but I would if it was the only thing between me and suicide).
> >
> > It's Ranitidine, not remenedine - the transcript was wrong! By the way, I used to take zoloft and those were two 100mg pills he takes everyday along with everything else! God bless his liver!
>
> I couldn't find anything on Remenedine either, but I don't think it's Ranitidine; that's Zantac for stomach acid. I thought maybe it was Amantadine, which is for the flu, but also related to Parkinson's... One of my biggest issues w/these meds is that the weight gain is so upsetting to me that it's impossible to even judge the treatment because of the depression from gaining weight.Yeah, not to mention sedation, and sexual side effects... yada, yada, yada. It never ends. That's why I originally was surprised by his cocktail. It's amazing to me that not only do people function on such large amounts of meds, but they seem to function better. I personally can barely tolerate one or two meds at low doses, and endless experimention to find that magical combo of umpteen simultaneous psychoactive drugs would kill me right quick.
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