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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by blueboy on May 12, 2008, at 15:06:26
I've about run through every med possible. Nardil helped me but I got so I couldn't tolerate it.
My pdoc is strongly urging me towards ECT (electroshock). It's not as bad as it used to be apparently, with lower doses, sine wave shock, and unilater (one side of the brain) shock.
Still, this is a huge concern to me for a lot of reasons. If I understand correctly, this Forum is limited to meds. But it's extremely helpful and I'd like to ask if anybody to point me towards a helpful forum (with a minimum of zealots) where ECT experiences (or other mechanical methods) are shared and discussed.
Posted by garylee on May 12, 2008, at 17:14:49
In reply to OT - anyone know a decent forum about ECT?, posted by blueboy on May 12, 2008, at 15:06:26
Blueboy... I'm saddened to see that ECT is your last resort. My brother and I are both seriously Bipolar II/NOS and have pretty much exhausted all meds out there. He opted for ECT a few years back - wrong move. During the few weeks of the shock treatment he noticed a slight improvement but over all the only good thing was the general anaesthectic each time! ECT has made him far worse than he was and he regrets it now, as over the past few years we have researched more and found there are still some very NOVEL approaches to treatment with meds to try. I'd seriously ask you to consider this route first...
Can I ask you you diagnosis and briefly what meds you have tried?
Thanks
Gary
Posted by bleauberry on May 12, 2008, at 19:12:23
In reply to Re: OT - anyone know a decent forum about ECT?, posted by garylee on May 12, 2008, at 17:14:49
I am an ECT survivor and with pounding fists warn anyone to stay far from it. If one wants their future to be worse than it is now, ECT is the way to go. To be fair, there must be some people who benefit longterm. I've just never seen them in real life or in literature. I have however seen real life disasters, almost 100%, from ECT.
For me it worked for 2 days. Total remission. Then I was in an ambulance to the hospital, worse than ever. This was after a month of 12 treatments. 3 months of memory is completely gone, still, and 12 months is quite foggy, and 3 years is a bit foggy with some completely wiped out areas. Also cost a job since I could no longer remember what it was or how to do it. Couldn't even drive around town because it looked like a foreign place I had never been.
Anyway, Yahoo has lots of forums. Go to Yahoo, find the forums area, then in the forums search box type in ECT or eletroconvulsive. There might be something there.
A person was treatment resistant. Tried everything. Then cymbalta came out. Tried that. No good. Then a retry of Remeron. No good. The two were combined with little hope...but surprise, remission with the combination. This after failing "everything" else. Or how about T3 even when no sign of hypothyroid. Heck, even in Dr Bobs tips that is a strategy doctors get results with. There are lots of meds and combinations and permutations. Something is still available to you.
Don't do ECT.
Posted by Bob on May 12, 2008, at 19:35:38
In reply to Re: OT - anyone know a decent forum about ECT?, posted by bleauberry on May 12, 2008, at 19:12:23
> I am an ECT survivor and with pounding fists warn anyone to stay far from it. If one wants their future to be worse than it is now, ECT is the way to go. To be fair, there must be some people who benefit longterm. I've just never seen them in real life or in literature. I have however seen real life disasters, almost 100%, from ECT.
>
> For me it worked for 2 days. Total remission. Then I was in an ambulance to the hospital, worse than ever. This was after a month of 12 treatments. 3 months of memory is completely gone, still, and 12 months is quite foggy, and 3 years is a bit foggy with some completely wiped out areas. Also cost a job since I could no longer remember what it was or how to do it. Couldn't even drive around town because it looked like a foreign place I had never been.
>
> Anyway, Yahoo has lots of forums. Go to Yahoo, find the forums area, then in the forums search box type in ECT or eletroconvulsive. There might be something there.
>
> A person was treatment resistant. Tried everything. Then cymbalta came out. Tried that. No good. Then a retry of Remeron. No good. The two were combined with little hope...but surprise, remission with the combination. This after failing "everything" else. Or how about T3 even when no sign of hypothyroid. Heck, even in Dr Bobs tips that is a strategy doctors get results with. There are lots of meds and combinations and permutations. Something is still available to you.
>
> Don't do ECT.I personally did not have a good experience with ECT but I do not want to sway anyone else since it supposedly works for some. However I wanted to mention that before I tried it I was in pretty bad shape and have always been quite med sensitive. Problem is, endlessly trying med combinations can be quite difficult also. The withdrawals and side effects were getting unbelievable. Maybe that's why at least some people try ECT. Unfortunately, post ECT, I am worse off and even more med sensitive.
Posted by SLS on May 12, 2008, at 21:21:38
In reply to OT - anyone know a decent forum about ECT?, posted by blueboy on May 12, 2008, at 15:06:26
> I've about run through every med possible. Nardil helped me but I got so I couldn't tolerate it.
Can you explain in more detail what it was about Nardil you couldn't tolerate? How long were you taking it before these things appeared?
- Scott
Posted by blueboy on May 13, 2008, at 9:01:22
In reply to Re: OT - anyone know a decent forum about ECT? » blueboy, posted by SLS on May 12, 2008, at 21:21:38
> > I've about run through every med possible. Nardil helped me but I got so I couldn't tolerate it.
>
> Can you explain in more detail what it was about Nardil you couldn't tolerate? How long were you taking it before these things appeared?
>
>
> - ScottSure. Well, I had almost every side effect listed, and they weren't constant but popped up just randomly. Worst was probably terrible aggravated insomnia, which I handled with Klonopin, Ambien, Lunesta. But it was worth it for me, since it did a LOT of good.
One problem I had was intermittant rash (which tends to worry doctors). After I had been on it for about 2 years, I was on vacation and broke out all over in red bumps with scattered petichia (sp?) -- little blood spots. This was very unlike the occasional rashes I had had before, and my pdoc told me to stop taking it (over the phone). The dermatologist was unable to find a reason for it.
We never figured out what it was, but when I started on Nardil again, they came back and the Nardil didn't work as well.
I was on 4x15 mg daily at a body weight of @ 250 pounds.
The other side effects I had to tolerate, and was willing to tolerate, were sexual problems, weight gain, food and drug restrictions, stomach acid, some degree of hypomania, dizziness (especially postural hypotension), urinary difficulties -- I know there were others but I can't remember them.
It didn't help my anxiety much but at least I bounced out of bed every morning ready to go to work.
Posted by SLS on May 16, 2008, at 9:55:52
In reply to Re: OT - anyone know a decent forum about ECT?, posted by blueboy on May 13, 2008, at 9:01:22
I can see why you stopped taking it.
There is always Parnate and Marplan. Marplan is sometimes spoken of as a "weaker" Nardil. However, it can certainly produce a robust antidepressant response for some people.
Effexor, Cymbalta, nortriptyline, Zoloft, Prozac?
- Scott
Posted by blueboy on May 16, 2008, at 11:53:46
In reply to Re: OT - anyone know a decent forum about ECT? » blueboy, posted by SLS on May 16, 2008, at 9:55:52
> I can see why you stopped taking it.
>
> There is always Parnate and Marplan. Marplan is sometimes spoken of as a "weaker" Nardil. However, it can certainly produce a robust antidepressant response for some people.
>
> Effexor, Cymbalta, nortriptyline, Zoloft, Prozac?
>My pdoc doesn't want to try other MAOI's. He has suggested lithium, but that's really getting desperate and frankly, I just don't want to take it, given its side effects, its toxicity, the need for weekly blood sampling and, most of all, I don't have any psychotic mania and don't want to flatten my affect.
He think ECT is the best option at this point.
The others -- tried 'em all, and many many more.
Posted by SLS on May 16, 2008, at 18:43:33
In reply to Re: OT - anyone know a decent forum about ECT?, posted by blueboy on May 16, 2008, at 11:53:46
Have you ever tried combining:
Wellbutrin + (Zoloft or Lexapro) + nortriptyline?
You can even add Geodon or Abilify. I used to place Abilify before Geodon, but I have personally seen the addition of Geodon work magic for depression.
Q: Which antidepressants gave you a partial improvement?
- Scott
Posted by lady scruffe on May 16, 2008, at 20:06:37
In reply to OT - anyone know a decent forum about ECT?, posted by blueboy on May 12, 2008, at 15:06:26
Please do not do ECT. PLEASE! I have been totally disabled from treatment resistent depression/GAD since 2002 and have also been on all medications/ also augmented and finally after researching ECT and getting multiple opinions - did a 12 course series of ECT fall of 2005. The side effects are so bad - such mental confusion during the wks of treatments and for months/yrs after. Such headaches - even with morphine shots after every treatment. My memory is still so bad - and so many memories of pre ECT yrs are gone for good. Your behavior during and for months after is goofy to say the least - it caused such anguish and worry in my family that my son who was a senior at Yale almost had to drop out - he was so flipped out by my bizarre behaviour. A lifelong reader of anything and everything - I still cannot process/understand/retain most of what I read. It's gone. I can't spell - I was an expert at it. ECT made me worse. It did not lift my depression and it has made me even more self conscious around people - even family - because I don't know if I am repeating myself, when past ocasions at which apparently I was present come up in conversation - I just nod and pretend - I often have no memory of the occasion. And I had this done 3 yrs ago!
Posted by blueboy on May 17, 2008, at 17:33:29
In reply to Re: OT - anyone know a decent forum about ECT? » blueboy, posted by SLS on May 16, 2008, at 18:43:33
I can't tolerate them. Welbutrin sent me into seizures.
Posted by blueboy on May 20, 2008, at 15:46:20
In reply to OT - anyone know a decent forum about ECT?, posted by blueboy on May 12, 2008, at 15:06:26
Thanks to all who responded to the question. I went to see a diagnostic specialist this morning (2 hours, $400!), a researcher who sees one patient per day. He was quite positive that my proper DSM-IV diagnosis is bipolar 2!
I'll post more separately. But -- Thank you dear Lord! -- ECT is out of the picture.
> I've about run through every med possible. Nardil helped me but I got so I couldn't tolerate it.
>
> My pdoc is strongly urging me towards ECT (electroshock). It's not as bad as it used to be apparently, with lower doses, sine wave shock, and unilater (one side of the brain) shock.
>
> Still, this is a huge concern to me for a lot of reasons. If I understand correctly, this Forum is limited to meds. But it's extremely helpful and I'd like to ask if anybody to point me towards a helpful forum (with a minimum of zealots) where ECT experiences (or other mechanical methods) are shared and discussed.
Posted by Trotten on May 20, 2008, at 22:46:23
In reply to Re: OT - anyone know a decent forum about ECT?, posted by blueboy on May 20, 2008, at 15:46:20
ECT only made me loose my memory. I think it could be good if you was so bad than couldnt even able to make a thread here in internet. For my own experience the better combo is Cymbalta + Abilify( and you can add some thing extra like a TCA). I am having some side effects but I am tring to deal with them.
Take care!
This is the end of the thread.
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