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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by med_empowered on May 14, 2008, at 5:56:17
Is taking a benzo actually a lot like drinking? The two feel different to me...I've always heard that barbiturates were/are like alcohol in tab form, but those are a lot less selective/clean than the BZDs....anyone have insight?
Posted by SLS on May 14, 2008, at 6:01:59
In reply to Are BZDs really like booze?, posted by med_empowered on May 14, 2008, at 5:56:17
> Is taking a benzo actually a lot like drinking? The two feel different to me...I've always heard that barbiturates were/are like alcohol in tab form, but those are a lot less selective/clean than the BZDs....anyone have insight?
Ethanol and benzodiazepines are both capable of producing behavioral disinhibition.
- Scott
Posted by Racer on May 14, 2008, at 9:06:58
In reply to Re: Are BZDs really like booze?, posted by SLS on May 14, 2008, at 6:01:59
> > Is taking a benzo actually a lot like drinking? The two feel different to me...I've always heard that barbiturates were/are like alcohol in tab form, but those are a lot less selective/clean than the BZDs....anyone have insight?
>
> Ethanol and benzodiazepines are both capable of producing behavioral disinhibition.
>
>
> - ScottBoth can also cause blackouts for susceptible individuals...
Posted by Forerunner on May 14, 2008, at 10:40:22
In reply to Are BZDs really like booze?, posted by med_empowered on May 14, 2008, at 5:56:17
> Is taking a benzo actually a lot like drinking? The two feel different to me...I've always heard that barbiturates were/are like alcohol in tab form, but those are a lot less selective/clean than the BZDs....anyone have insight?
They feel a lot different to me as well. I had one Pdoc tell me they effect the same site of the brain that alcohol does and that they even burn brain cells.
-4'r
Posted by Phillipa on May 14, 2008, at 10:48:40
In reply to Re: Are BZDs really like booze? » med_empowered, posted by Forerunner on May 14, 2008, at 10:40:22
Not to me but we're all different they used to just relax me and let me be and live a very active lifestyle where when I drank over 14 years ago I would just want to sleep. Phillipa
Posted by cactus on May 14, 2008, at 15:02:04
In reply to Are BZDs really like booze?, posted by med_empowered on May 14, 2008, at 5:56:17
No, as a recovering alcoholic, I find that they are nothing like booze to me. they just let me live a better life and my doc agrees. I hope to be free of them someday but for now I'm just tapering down to the lowest dose possible, I'll probably have to be on a small dose until they find a better cure for restless leg syndrome and anxiety/panic which clonazepam works beautifully on for both.
Blackouts can occur when you first start taking them or take a high dose, especially with hypnotics, they do mess with my memory though, but I'd prefer that for now than drinking every night and all weekend long remembering nothing.
Posted by John Doughboy on May 14, 2008, at 18:04:17
In reply to Re: Are BZDs really like booze? » med_empowered, posted by cactus on May 14, 2008, at 15:02:04
Benzos and alcohol definitely have some similarities ,but they are still way different. They both act on the neurotransmitter GABA,but they do it in completely different ways,and alcohol has strong effects on many other neurotransmitters that benzos don't (like dopamine).
Subjectively, than are definitely way different to me. Alcohol gives me a "buzz";benzos do not.
Posted by Phillipa on May 14, 2008, at 20:46:38
In reply to Re: Are BZDs really like booze?, posted by John Doughboy on May 14, 2008, at 18:04:17
So if I felt great when drinking 4-6 beers a night with .5 of xanax and had no hangover the next day should I drink again or what med should I add to recapture that. This is a very important question for me as the answer to why when I quit drinking went downhill. Please someone answer. Phillipa
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on May 14, 2008, at 23:02:18
In reply to Are BZDs really like booze?, posted by med_empowered on May 14, 2008, at 5:56:17
Effexor (like crack) also increases the amount of monoamines like serotonin and norepinephrine and dopamine, but Effexor works differently as do benzos (from booze). After repeated use, benzos lose their sedating properties, but retain their anti-anxiety properties consistently. These anti-anxiety properties have been shown to last for decades, without impairment of judgment or cognition. I myself have been on 4mg a day of clonazepam for about 14 years, and Ive completed a bachelor and a graduate degree with honors, and hold down a job that requires acute perception and reflex in behaviour analysis and therapy as a social worker.
Jay
Posted by Sigismund on May 15, 2008, at 3:22:45
In reply to Re: Are BZDs really like booze? » John Doughboy, posted by Phillipa on May 14, 2008, at 20:46:38
I'll answer, PJ
I think half a Xanax would go down really well with the scotch I am currently having.
And if I can do it, you can do it too.
Posted by Sigismund on May 15, 2008, at 5:46:39
In reply to Re: ..like saying Effexor is like taking crack » med_empowered, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on May 14, 2008, at 23:02:18
>After repeated use, benzos lose their sedating properties, but retain their anti-anxiety properties consistently
I'm not so sure.
Posted by Glydin on May 15, 2008, at 8:34:36
In reply to Re: Are BZDs really like booze? » John Doughboy, posted by Phillipa on May 14, 2008, at 20:46:38
> So if I felt great when drinking 4-6 beers a night with .5 of xanax and had no hangover the next day should I drink again or what med should I add to recapture that. This is a very important question for me as the answer to why when I quit drinking went downhill. Please someone answer. Phillipa
~~~ I'm no longer really "someone" here but I would like to ask some questions... From the perspective of you stating yourself as former psych nurse - Would that combo have be a treatment plan placed for a patient? Isn't there a real risk of resp. drive depression especially if the alcohol consumption is in the moderate to heavy range?
Posted by Phillipa on May 15, 2008, at 12:40:05
In reply to Re: Are BZDs really like booze? » Phillipa, posted by Glydin on May 15, 2008, at 8:34:36
Seems all of us nurses drank after work and were on meds so we all did fine and had the best psych unit in our part of the woods. We didn't prescribe for patients the docs did that and some recommended a drink or two for relaxation to their patients. Does this answer the question? Some nurses also took benydryl for sleep too. We had a lot of parties the managers and nurses and a lot of drinking and most were on meds. Love Phillipa
Posted by bulldog2 on May 15, 2008, at 13:24:27
In reply to Re: Are BZDs really like booze? » Phillipa, posted by Glydin on May 15, 2008, at 8:34:36
> > So if I felt great when drinking 4-6 beers a night with .5 of xanax and had no hangover the next day should I drink again or what med should I add to recapture that. This is a very important question for me as the answer to why when I quit drinking went downhill. Please someone answer. Phillipa
>
>
> ~~~ I'm no longer really "someone" here but I would like to ask some questions... From the perspective of you stating yourself as former psych nurse - Would that combo have be a treatment plan placed for a patient? Isn't there a real risk of resp. drive depression especially if the alcohol consumption is in the moderate to heavy range?
>
>
>
>
>I myself have a drink or two Friday night and Saturday night. used to drink every night but no longer do that. I still drink those two nights because I find a drink relaxing. However have no desire to get drunk anymore.Just trying to find a balance and still have a little enjoyment in life. Just like I eat strictly 6 days a week but on Saturday night I eat whatever I want.
Posted by bulldog2 on May 15, 2008, at 13:28:18
In reply to Re: Are BZDs really like booze? » John Doughboy, posted by Phillipa on May 14, 2008, at 20:46:38
> So if I felt great when drinking 4-6 beers a night with .5 of xanax and had no hangover the next day should I drink again or what med should I add to recapture that. This is a very important question for me as the answer to why when I quit drinking went downhill. Please someone answer. Phillipa
You are on such a small amount of benzos and luvox I don't think a couple beers on a Friday and Saturday night would sabotage your treatment. If you felt bad the next day than you know you cannot drink. We only live once and I don't get the feeling your having much fun.
To me neurontin comes the closest to how I feel when I drink.
Posted by sdb on May 15, 2008, at 17:18:57
In reply to Re: ..like saying Effexor is like taking crack » med_empowered, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on May 14, 2008, at 23:02:18
>
> Effexor (like crack) also increases the amount of monoamines like serotonin and norepinephrine and dopamine, but Effexor works differently as do benzos (from booze). After repeated use, benzos lose their sedating properties, but retain their anti-anxiety properties consistently. These anti-anxiety properties have been shown to last for decades, without impairment of judgment or cognition. I myself have been on 4mg a day of clonazepam for about 14 years, and Ive completed a bachelor and a graduate degree with honors, and hold down a job that requires acute perception and reflex in behaviour analysis and therapy as a social worker.
>
> Jay
>I have seen older patients on oxazepam since many, many years having a brilliant mind. maybe the negative properties of benzos on cognition is more due to sedation.
I tried benadryl (benadryl, like Phillipa mentioned) to synchronize my sleep/wake rhythm. there was some sedation during the day what was absolutely intolerable for me. after some little research it was clear that the reason was because of the long acting metabolites.
Posted by sunnydays on May 15, 2008, at 22:38:24
In reply to Re: Are BZDs really like booze?, posted by John Doughboy on May 14, 2008, at 18:04:17
This is inaccurate. They act on the same GABA receptor in the brain. Different sites on the receptor, but the same receptor. So mixing the two is like doubling the punch... extra CNS depression can be lethal.
sunnydays
Posted by fayeroe on May 16, 2008, at 17:31:10
In reply to Re: Are BZDs really like booze? » Glydin, posted by Phillipa on May 15, 2008, at 12:40:05
> Seems all of us nurses drank after work and were on meds so we all did fine and had the best psych unit in our part of the woods. We didn't prescribe for patients the docs did that and some recommended a drink or two for relaxation to their patients. Does this answer the question? Some nurses also took benydryl for sleep too. We had a lot of parties the managers and nurses and a lot of drinking and most were on meds. Love Phillipa
i am highjacking...but Phillipa, did those doctors prescribe drinking for the inpatients? (patients that slept in hospital) i worked in a psych hospital for years and alcohol isn't even allowed in a hospital setting....where did you work?
This is the end of the thread.
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