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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Quintal on May 3, 2008, at 4:24:33
Why is it that addiction is so unacceptable, while diabetes, obesity, heart disease, thyroid toxicity and renal faliure are quite alright? I had another bad night after cutting down on zopiclone because of my bastard Nazi of a GP, and bastard Nazi of a psychiatrist won't give me any more. I think I quite possibly have the worst set of doctors in the whole of the UK.
Other people on bipolar forums have been shocked by the treatment (or lack thereof) that I've received. Other people with bipolar disorder are getting prescriptions for zopiclone and lorazepam in the UK because their doctors recognize they need these drugs. The pdoc in the hospital that first prescribed the zopiclone was okay with long-term prescriptions because the illness it was being used to treat was so serious. It's not a case of sleeping tablets being 'comfort medicines' any more (and why would it be so bad if it were?), there's more at stake than a restless night when you have bipolar.
I'm going to ask my social worker to transfer me to the hospital pdoc when she eventually gets her butt back to work. I'm sick of the whole damned lot of them. They're not reliable. I just can't keep on having to fight tooth and claw every single f*ck*ng month just to get a measly 14 tablets. I shouldn't have to. I need 28 tablets every month because the meds I'm taking for bipolar (lamotrigine, amisulpride) give me insomnia, and it was already severe to start with. I just can't go on like this. I'm so angry.
Q
Posted by Molybdenum on May 3, 2008, at 5:37:51
In reply to Angry at pdoc, posted by Quintal on May 3, 2008, at 4:24:33
Hi,
What's the problem with ditching the doctor & finding another? Isn't that just a matter of one FCUK phonecall to the prick (or just "nothing" will do) & then get out the directory to find a newie?
Are you worried that the new one will ring the NHS & find some note about you being earmarked as a benzo "abuser" or some such? I'm not suggesting this happens - I have no idea. Just trying to understand your concerns. ;)
- Mr. B.Damned.
Posted by bulldog2 on May 3, 2008, at 8:52:31
In reply to Angry at pdoc, posted by Quintal on May 3, 2008, at 4:24:33
Another argument against government run socilaized medicine.
Posted by Quintal on May 3, 2008, at 8:52:51
In reply to Re: Angry at pdoc, posted by Molybdenum on May 3, 2008, at 5:37:51
The NHS doesn't operate like a business, so you can't shop around 'till you find one that fits. There are private psychiatrists somewhere (I don't know where), but only the extremely wealthy use them. I'm pretty sure there are none where I live, not that I could afford one anyway. You can ask to be referred to another consultant if you're having problems, but this may or may not be successful, and if not then you're stuck with a pdoc who knows you think he stinks. That's what I'm going to do anyway. Anything would be better than this one.
Worse still is that all our records are now held on a central database, so any doctor that treats me will see what the previous ones have written. My GP made a particular point of pasting warnings on the computer to say that I'm personality disordered and to stop any other doctors prescribing benzos to me. She gets off on that kind of thing. And yes, I could change GPs too, but with that kind of reference other GPs might be reluctant to take me on. Between the pair of them, they've made sure that any doctor that sees me will be predjudiced against me, and it will be this way for the rest of life. I hate them.
Q
Posted by Quintal on May 3, 2008, at 8:59:18
In reply to Re: Angry at pdoc, posted by bulldog2 on May 3, 2008, at 8:52:31
Another? I wasn't aware there were any arguments against having a national health service. It can certainly be a pain at times, but I would never have been born if we didn't have one. Nobody would have insured my mother after all the operations she'd had (for free). That's one of the reasons we could never go abroad - nobody would insure her.
Q
Posted by bulldog2 on May 3, 2008, at 10:12:59
In reply to Re: Angry at pdoc » bulldog2, posted by Quintal on May 3, 2008, at 8:59:18
> Another? I wasn't aware there were any arguments against having a national health service. It can certainly be a pain at times, but I would never have been born if we didn't have one. Nobody would have insured my mother after all the operations she'd had (for free). That's one of the reasons we could never go abroad - nobody would insure her.
>
> QThere's a lot of controversy in the US about national health. Obama and Clinton want one but others are afraid it will degrade the quality of medicine offered.
Posted by Phillipa on May 3, 2008, at 10:53:32
In reply to Re: Angry at pdoc, posted by bulldog2 on May 3, 2008, at 10:12:59
Bulldog2 it already has as medicaire is paying so little another drop in pay to any doc that the docs don't want the patients. See Scott's letter in NJ. Love Phillipa. And Q I know and have no idea what to suggest.
Posted by bulldog2 on May 3, 2008, at 10:55:39
In reply to Re: Angry at pdoc » bulldog2, posted by Phillipa on May 3, 2008, at 10:53:32
> Bulldog2 it already has as medicaire is paying so little another drop in pay to any doc that the docs don't want the patients. See Scott's letter in NJ. Love Phillipa. And Q I know and have no idea what to suggest.
Talking about the plan to have national insurance for all.
Posted by med_empowered on May 3, 2008, at 10:59:41
In reply to Re: Angry at pdoc, posted by bulldog2 on May 3, 2008, at 10:55:39
wow...so, a GP can dx you as "personality disordered" ? WTF?
Anyway, I'm sorry. Are private shrinks that expensive in Britain? Have you ever considered getting BZDs off the net, I mean...I don't know how the laws in your country are, but jeeze, that really, really sucks.
Can you get re-evaluated and have the "personality disorder" flag removed? Can a social worker help you out there? Your situation is pretty appalling.
Posted by Quintal on May 3, 2008, at 11:21:05
In reply to Re: Angry at pdoc, posted by bulldog2 on May 3, 2008, at 10:12:59
I can see why there would be resistance to starting a national health program in the US in this day and age, for various reasons. I suppose things were different back in the forties when the NHS was introduced. I don't think the quality of medicine would decline because people who can afford private health care or insurance could still buy it if they wanted to, as they can in the UK, but people who can't would still receive adequate health care. There are private health insurance systems such as BUPA here, and they have their own exclusive hospitals, but for ordinary people they're just not worth it. It's more of a status symbol than a neccesity. I think even the Queen had her knee done on the NHS a few years ago.
The main problem with the NHS is the waiting lists, not the quality of the medicine when you finally get to see the doctor. It isn't as efficient as it could be. That said, in my area the waiting lists aren't too bad - I've always got GP appointments within a few days to a week. Psychology services are the worst, taking up to a year or more to see a CBT specalist, which is obviously useless.
Q
Posted by Quintal on May 3, 2008, at 12:32:17
In reply to Re: Angry at pdoc, posted by med_empowered on May 3, 2008, at 10:59:41
It was the pdoc who diagnosed me with BPD, but he didn't tell me that to my face. He put it in my discharge letter, and my GP took great pleasure in adding it to my list of diagnoses. Once something has been added another doctor can disagree and offer a second opinion, but I don't think the original diagnosis can be deleted.
I ordered clonazepam off the internet for years when they stopped my scripts back in 2004. That is where the allegations of abuse came from - because I was buying them without a prescription. And yes, I ordered some zolpidem, diazepam and lorazepam back in March, but the first parcel went missing, the second one got seized by customs, and I'm still waiting for the third re-shipment. I have an awful feeling it has been seized again. The online pharmacy has been the only one to show a sense of decency and compassion.
I don't know the going rates for private pdocs, but I once saw a hypnotherapist privately and he only charged me £30 a session because I was on benefits. I have a feeling pdoc fees would run at £200-300 per session, but I don't actually know. I could have a look and find out though. I get generous state benefits of ~£190/$374 a week because my Bipolar I was judged to be a severe disability, but I don't think I can stretch to accommodate private pdoc fees. Anyway, there's no guarantee the care would be any better because I've already been through the whole book of medications. I know which ones work, I just need my pdoc to prescribe them for me. They keep quoting the NICE guidelines on benzo prescribing (not to prescribe them at all really) and I think private pdocs are still bound by the same prescribing guidelines.
Actually, my GP has private patients. I don't know what the difference is, maybe they just get priority over the hoi polloi? I don't see how it would improve my care to go private, because she's still the same (bastard of a) person, and that's the problem, not the NHS. They could just give me a month's supply of zopiclone if they wanted to - as did in the past, and as they do to loads of other people, but I think they just get a power trip out of denying me.
Q
Posted by med_empowered on May 3, 2008, at 13:21:57
In reply to Re: Angry at pdoc » med_empowered, posted by Quintal on May 3, 2008, at 12:32:17
as much as i hate advocating that, you do what you gotta do...unless you can switch to less stimulating meds? Have you tried Hydroxyzine? I don't know how it plays with what you're taking now, but it might help.
Posted by Quintal on May 3, 2008, at 16:15:37
In reply to Re: Angry at pdoc, posted by med_empowered on May 3, 2008, at 10:59:41
I spent half an hour looking for private consultants but there were none in my area, only down south and in London. Only one published his fees on the internet, and it seems I was in the right price range, but I didn't realize they also charge for reading writing notes! The fee can run as high as £1760:
__________________________________________________REVISED SCALE OF CHARGES As of 1st April 2006 CIVIL COURT WORK
Dr C Hallstrom MB CHB MD FRCP FRCPsych DPM Consultant General Adult Psychiatrist (Hon) Senior Lecturer at Imperial College of Medicine Approved under Section 12 of the Mental Health ActHourly Rate
Hourly rate £220 per hour. (+ VAT). Fee is dependent upon the amount of work involved, but usually 3-4 hours reading paper work, 2 hours interviewing the client and 2-3 hours in preparation of the report. Usually 8 hours work with a maximum fee of £1760. If client does not attend without less than 12 hours notice, fee chargeable, time taken to read the papers and 1 hours cancellation fee.
Travelling Time
£100 per hour plus first class rail fare or public transport rates and local taxi fares. Conference with Counsel £220 per hour attendance and preparation time.
Minor queries/correspondence no charge.
__________________________________________________I saw none that I would feel comfortable approaching for treatment. The treatment I'm getting really isn't that bad, if only they would sort out the zopiclone. I can't imagine that paying £220 an hour would be worth it just to get the same old crap. Dr. Hallstrom is a specailist in tranquillizer addiction and dependance, so probably not too hot on giving out long term prescrptions for them.
Q
Posted by bleauberry on May 3, 2008, at 16:54:54
In reply to Angry at pdoc, posted by Quintal on May 3, 2008, at 4:24:33
I sure feel for you. Talk about frustrating. It must be a real trapped feeling. Even in a free society where you can hire and fire any doctor you please, we can sometimes get somewhat mildly trapped due to insurance or availability, but not nearly to the degree you experience.
Until you can get the medical stuff sorted out I don't think there is much choice except to use stuff you can get over the counter. Benadryl? Valerian root extract?
It is not unusual for people in Canada that have money often go to the USA for their medical needs because the Canadaian socialized medicine system is more narrow, it doesn't give the patient many options, and waiting periods are very long. Socialized medicine in Austria/Germany is basically ok for common things from what I've heard, but when my sister was having trouble with allergies and getting nowhere in the system, she ended up finding a near cure by paying cash to see a holistic specialist outside of the medical system. As long as the problem is straight forward and the patient doesn't mind a waiting period, socialized medicine seems ok, other than the fact that about 50% of a paycheck goes to the government. I would expect first class service for that kind of fee.
As someone else said, this thread highlights the downfalls of socialized medicine. Long waits. Unreliable quality. Lack of options. You had thanks for socialized medicine for providing your birth, but I believe your birth would have happened one way or the other regardless. There is always some kind of safety net to catch those who have no money, no insurance, and no means.
Posted by Quintal on May 3, 2008, at 18:41:43
In reply to Re: Angry at pdoc, posted by bleauberry on May 3, 2008, at 16:54:54
>Benadryl? Valerian root extract?
Yes, I have them in my cupboard, and much more besides. They used to help a little, but they're not much good now I'm used to taking zopiclone.
>Socialized medicine in Austria/Germany is basically ok for common things from what I've heard, but when my sister was having trouble with allergies and getting nowhere in the system, she ended up finding a near cure by paying cash to see a holistic specialist outside of the medical system.
I was just thinking I'd rather spend money going to see a herbalist or a homeopath rather than waste £220 on going to see another psychopath, sorry, psychiatrist, just to get the same treatment I'm getting on the NHS.
I really don't understand this resentment towards 'socialized health care' as everyone seems to be putting it. I can only assume there is some sort of political tension in the US right now that is colouring the lens through which you view this topic. Surely every sensible person would want a free universal health care system, even if they were relatively well off, just in case they fell on hard times? As I've said before, the NHS isn't very efficient, but the UK is still a free country with a private healthcare sector - for those who can afford it, and I'm not among them. I think I'd be quite a bit worse off in America with my income level.
I literally have carrier bags overflowing with boxes of meds that I've been given for free. How can I complain about that? The most anyone has to pay is the £6-7 prescription fee if they are in full-time employment (I don't even know what the exact figure is because I don't have to pay). It's free for anyone who is on sick, disabled or over 60. There are no doctor's fees on the NHS. Their wages are paid for by deductions taken from income tax and national insurance, which is taken automatically off everyone's wages. When I worked I didn't mind paying it one bit.
>As someone else said, this thread highlights the downfalls of socialized medicine.
It seems there have always been people waiting for the NHS to crumble. I was reading a report on Medicare a few weeks ago where a doctor claimed the NHS was close to falling, that was in 1988. It's still going strong, but there are always people willing it to fail. That particular doctor was in favour of phasing out Medicare. I don't know what he was planning on replacing it with. Some vague talk of municipal hospitals and charity funds if I remember rightly. The real problem in my case is a very unfortunate clash of personalities. Yes, they have me trapped in a sort of pincer movement, but there is a way out - by asking to be referred back to the pdoc who first saw me in hospital. He is a kind and wise man, the complete opposite of the one I have at the moment.
>You had thanks for socialized medicine for providing your birth, but I believe your birth would have happened one way or the other regardless.
My birth was reported in a medical journal because it was so rare. My mother was one of only a handful of women at that time (and maybe still is) to have given birth after such drastic surgery for Chron's Disease. I think she only had a few feet of small intestine left by the time I was born. Apparently a researcher from New Zealand published a paper about it. I don't think she could have carried me that far if she hadn't been drip fed and had vitamin injections. I was still born prematurely and needed intensive care for a few weeks. A few of my brothers and sisters didn't make it, but my mother was a very determined woman.
It would have cost a bomb in private healthcare, never mind what it cost to keep her in appliances, vitamin drinks, antiseptic, gauze swabs, not to metion the surgery and consultant's fees. With no exaggeration I would hazard a guess that it cost over £1 million in medical fees over the 30 years since my mother first fell ill. She had a very severe condition.
Q
Posted by bulldog2 on May 3, 2008, at 19:26:46
In reply to Re: Angry at pdoc » bleauberry, posted by Quintal on May 3, 2008, at 18:41:43
> >Benadryl? Valerian root extract?
>
> Yes, I have them in my cupboard, and much more besides. They used to help a little, but they're not much good now I'm used to taking zopiclone.
>
> >Socialized medicine in Austria/Germany is basically ok for common things from what I've heard, but when my sister was having trouble with allergies and getting nowhere in the system, she ended up finding a near cure by paying cash to see a holistic specialist outside of the medical system.
>
> I was just thinking I'd rather spend money going to see a herbalist or a homeopath rather than waste £220 on going to see another psychopath, sorry, psychiatrist, just to get the same treatment I'm getting on the NHS.
>
> I really don't understand this resentment towards 'socialized health care' as everyone seems to be putting it. I can only assume there is some sort of political tension in the US right now that is colouring the lens through which you view this topic. Surely every sensible person would want a free universal health care system, even if they were relatively well off, just in case they fell on hard times? As I've said before, the NHS isn't very efficient, but the UK is still a free country with a private healthcare sector - for those who can afford it, and I'm not among them. I think I'd be quite a bit worse off in America with my income level.
>
> I literally have carrier bags overflowing with boxes of meds that I've been given for free. How can I complain about that? The most anyone has to pay is the £6-7 prescription fee if they are in full-time employment (I don't even know what the exact figure is because I don't have to pay). It's free for anyone who is on sick, disabled or over 60. There are no doctor's fees on the NHS. Their wages are paid for by deductions taken from income tax and national insurance, which is taken automatically off everyone's wages. When I worked I didn't mind paying it one bit.
>
> >As someone else said, this thread highlights the downfalls of socialized medicine.
>
> It seems there have always been people waiting for the NHS to crumble. I was reading a report on Medicare a few weeks ago where a doctor claimed the NHS was close to falling, that was in 1988. It's still going strong, but there are always people willing it to fail. That particular doctor was in favour of phasing out Medicare. I don't know what he was planning on replacing it with. Some vague talk of municipal hospitals and charity funds if I remember rightly. The real problem in my case is a very unfortunate clash of personalities. Yes, they have me trapped in a sort of pincer movement, but there is a way out - by asking to be referred back to the pdoc who first saw me in hospital. He is a kind and wise man, the complete opposite of the one I have at the moment.
>
> >You had thanks for socialized medicine for providing your birth, but I believe your birth would have happened one way or the other regardless.
>
> My birth was reported in a medical journal because it was so rare. My mother was one of only a handful of women at that time (and maybe still is) to have given birth after such drastic surgery for Chron's Disease. I think she only had a few feet of small intestine left by the time I was born. Apparently a researcher from New Zealand published a paper about it. I don't think she could have carried me that far if she hadn't been drip fed and had vitamin injections. I was still born prematurely and needed intensive care for a few weeks. A few of my brothers and sisters didn't make it, but my mother was a very determined woman.
>
> It would have cost a bomb in private healthcare, never mind what it cost to keep her in appliances, vitamin drinks, antiseptic, gauze swabs, not to metion the surgery and consultant's fees. With no exaggeration I would hazard a guess that it cost over £1 million in medical fees over the 30 years since my mother first fell ill. She had a very severe condition.
>
> QThere is talk that public health system in Canada is a mess. I think there is resentment when politicians talk of mandatory health care where all would have to be on it. But you're right that everyone should have access to medical care. It's a very complicated issue in the US.
Posted by cactus on May 4, 2008, at 16:51:24
In reply to Re: Angry at pdoc » Molybdenum, posted by Quintal on May 3, 2008, at 8:52:51
Worse still is that all our records are now held on a central database, so any doctor that treats me will see what the previous ones have written. My GP made a particular point of pasting warnings on the computer to say that I'm personality disordered and to stop any other doctors prescribing benzos to me. She gets off on that kind of thing. And yes, I could change GPs too, but with that kind of reference other GPs might be reluctant to take me on. Between the pair of them, they've made sure that any doctor that sees me will be predjudiced against me, and it will be this way for the rest of life. I hate them.
Q
They are seriously considering a central database of all medical records here in Australia at the moment. I think it's a horrendous breech of privacy because, like you, I have had some terrible experiences with bad GP's and pdoc's.
We too have public health care here for everyone but it's not as extensive as the UK. One interesting thing that they have already implemented a few years back, is put all our prescriptions at chemists onto a central database to stop doctor shopping for meds. This wasn't such big deal until a couple of weeks ago when I put a script in and had the pharmacist come over to me and say did you live at these previous addresses. I looked up quite confused and said yes and she said I'm going to put them all into the same file. They then have the power to alert the government of what you have been receiving and flag you for certain meds and report your GP/pdoc for over prescribing.
She was so rude to me because my list is enormous and asked me what the modafinil was for. When I told her I had sleep apnea and was a shift worker, she stopped dead in her tracks and couldn't have been nicer, she showed real concern and took $50 off the modafinil. That really intimidated me because she was young and I got the feeling that I was about to become her first reported customer. I work in an enviroment full of control freaks and she was right up there with them. I could see it in her eyes that she was about to pop a report in on me, but she didn't.
Freaky. C
Posted by Quintal on May 6, 2008, at 6:35:45
In reply to Re: Angry at pdoc » Quintal, posted by cactus on May 4, 2008, at 16:51:24
I'm geting angry again and need to vent. My social worker hasn't got back to me yet. I needed an appointment with her last week, and I just wish she'd get moving. I only have half a zopiclone tablet left and last night I was hypomanic. There's going to be trouble if I don't get some help soon. I mean it just wouldn't be acceptable to give someone 14 days worth of Lamictal if that was working for them would it? "I'm sorry, I just don't feel like giving you a month's worth of Lamictal. You'll just have to find a way to cope on your own."
Zopiclone is probably the main drug in my cocktail. It's the one that's helping me most and it's just making my life miserable to have it witheld like this.
So p*ssed off. I'm going to send my social worker a text message if she hasn't got back to me by 2:00. I don't care if it seems rude or pushy. I need her to do something to help me.
Q
This is the end of the thread.
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