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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on April 26, 2008, at 17:47:58
Adding sublingual B-12 methylcobalomin to my treatment regime precipitated a complete relapse into severe depression. It lasted for about 24 hours after a single 1mg dose. I then challenged myself with Cerefolin, an oral medical preparation that contains methylcobalomin 2mg. I experienced a significant worsening of depression, but milder and of shorter duration. I have since recovered. At least I came away from this experience with some knowledge regarding my negative reactivity to this substance.
Anyone else react this way to methylcobalomin B-12? Any clues as to what happened?
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 26, 2008, at 18:13:07
In reply to B-12 methylcobalomine caused me to relapse, posted by SLS on April 26, 2008, at 17:47:58
Scott allergy to one of the ingrediants? Too much folate. I'm sure your read this link but will post anyway. Did you take Delin also? Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on April 26, 2008, at 18:34:50
In reply to B-12 methylcobalomine caused me to relapse, posted by SLS on April 26, 2008, at 17:47:58
Hi Scott,
It is funny, well, not funny at all, but how everywhere you look it is recommended to take high dose B vitamins, especially the active forms like P5P and methylcobalomine, and that there are no side effects and that you just piss out whatever isn't needed and that these are great for treating depression.
In my experience B vitamins have powerful effects that can either worsen or improve a particular symptom. When my doc a few years ago gave me a B12 shot, I had horrific nightmares that night, woke up in the morning with massive anxiety like 10 pots of coffee, and my depression got worse for about half a week. The butterflies in my stomach took about that long to go away too. My doc laughed and said there is no such thing as an adverse reaction to B12 and to take another one. Not. No thankyou.
I don't know what happened to you, or me. For now, I take a B50 complex tab, break it into quarters, and then break each quarter into halves. I take that little each day, which is still I estimate about 800%RDA, so at least I know I'm getting the vitamins. But I refuse to follow the crowd and accept the misunderstood assumption that Bs are universally good for you. As with anything else, mileage varies and doses have to be customized, ranging anywhere from avoidance to megadose.
I remember reading about the Pfeiffer Institute, that treats psychiatric stuff with targeted vitamins and minerals, and that if the initial lab tests show the person is over-methylated, they must strictly avoid B vitamins.
I'm really sorry you had to sink back into that deep place. That must have been scary. I'm so glad it passed. Those kinds of reactions are what make me so gunshy and cautious when I get ready to try something new, anything, even vitamins.
Posted by bulldog2 on April 26, 2008, at 19:10:47
In reply to B-12 methylcobalomine caused me to relapse, posted by SLS on April 26, 2008, at 17:47:58
> Adding sublingual B-12 methylcobalomin to my treatment regime precipitated a complete relapse into severe depression. It lasted for about 24 hours after a single 1mg dose. I then challenged myself with Cerefolin, an oral medical preparation that contains methylcobalomin 2mg. I experienced a significant worsening of depression, but milder and of shorter duration. I have since recovered. At least I came away from this experience with some knowledge regarding my negative reactivity to this substance.
>
> Anyone else react this way to methylcobalomin B-12? Any clues as to what happened?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
>I suspect an interaction bewteen the deplin (folate) and homocysteine. Deplin causes homocysteine to convert to SAMe. Maybe you produced to much SAMe and that had a negative impact on your mood. Too much SAMe can be agitating and aggravate depression.
Posted by Jimmyboy on April 26, 2008, at 20:27:19
In reply to Re: B-12 methylcobalomine caused me to relapse, posted by bulldog2 on April 26, 2008, at 19:10:47
I agree,
SAM-e can cause serious anxiety ..
Too much SAM-e caused me to have panic attacks for 2 full years, i am just now recovering from them. That is tricky stuff.
Posted by SLS on April 27, 2008, at 0:47:34
In reply to Re: B-12 methylcobalomine caused me to relapse » SLS, posted by bleauberry on April 26, 2008, at 18:34:50
Thanks, Bleauberry.
I appreciate your sharing your knowledge and ideas.
I also had a dysphoric reaction to P-5-P a few weeks ago. It was mild in comparison to the total depressive relapse methylcobalomin precipitated.
Weird.
I started taking a B-Complex vitamin a few weeks ago. Of course, the source of the B-12 is cyanocombalomin. It doesn't produce a rush into the brain like methylcobalomin. The vitamins did not affect me negatively when I started them.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on April 27, 2008, at 0:50:52
In reply to Re: B-12 methylcobalomine caused me to relapse, posted by bulldog2 on April 26, 2008, at 19:10:47
Hi Bulldog2.
Thanks for the brainstorm!
> I suspect an interaction bewteen the deplin (folate) and homocysteine. Deplin causes homocysteine to convert to SAMe. Maybe you produced to much SAMe and that had a negative impact on your mood. Too much SAMe can be agitating and aggravate depression.
You are absolutely right. I had thought of that, but your affirmation of the idea gives me more reason to believe it.
- Scott
Posted by Bob on April 27, 2008, at 12:37:44
In reply to B-12 methylcobalomine caused me to relapse, posted by SLS on April 26, 2008, at 17:47:58
I'm not surprised to hear this at all. I can list any number of supposedly harmless meds that have affected me adversely since I have become increasingly ill. Things like St. John's Wort, SAMe, certain vitamins, and supplements, and many meds like strong antibiotics. I guess because the main, healthy population is not affected by these things the potential for psychiatric reactions is really not heeded.
I even saw an article describing rare psychatric reactions to NSAIDS. Who knew?
Posted by Phillipa on April 27, 2008, at 13:18:50
In reply to Re: B-12 methylcobalomine caused me to relapse » SLS, posted by Bob on April 27, 2008, at 12:37:44
I thought the NSAIDS were good for inflammation hence good for the brain? B's have reved me up too much for a long time and docs over the years have said only calcium, magnesium and D. Maybe a multi. That's it. Phillipa
Posted by 4WD on April 27, 2008, at 19:50:00
In reply to Re: B-12 methylcobalomine caused me to relapse » bulldog2, posted by SLS on April 27, 2008, at 0:50:52
Scott,
Why did you try the sublingual B-12 in the first place?
But I'm glad you posted the information because I almost bought some the other day, thinking that i had read it was good for depression and brain function in general. Was that the reasoning?
Which B vitamin is it that is depleted by Nardil?
B-12? Was that why you tried it?Marsha
Posted by SLS on April 28, 2008, at 10:02:16
In reply to why did you decide to try it? (SLS), posted by 4WD on April 27, 2008, at 19:50:00
Hi Marsha.
> Why did you try the sublingual B-12 in the first place?
Because, "theoretically", it is supposed to prevent a masked deficiency of B-12 and help the methylfolate work better. So much for making decisions based on theoretical assumptions.
- Scott
Posted by Bob on April 28, 2008, at 16:08:18
In reply to Re: why did you decide to try it? (SLS), posted by SLS on April 28, 2008, at 10:02:16
So much for making decisions based on theoretical assumptions.
>
>
> - Scott
>Granted theories rarely prove correct for me when choosing what meds to take, but really, what else is there?
Posted by SLS on April 28, 2008, at 16:17:45
In reply to Re: why did you decide to try it? (SLS) » SLS, posted by Bob on April 28, 2008, at 16:08:18
> So much for making decisions based on theoretical assumptions.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
>
> Granted theories rarely prove correct for me when choosing what meds to take, but really, what else is there?You're right. I think things are better than simple blind trial-and-error.
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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